The American Buffalo

[ole pizen slinger]

https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-american-buffalo/

Two Episodes. Good watch.

Ole Pizen Slinger

[Bill in Oregon]

On my list. Have ten titles in my small bison library. I have been entranced by these marvelous animals all my life.

[JBowen]

I watched the first part on PBS the other night. I enjoyed it very much, plus I learned a few things too.
Those piles of Bison bones and skulls were amazing. On the other hand it was a very dark period of the US history.

JBowen

[Bronco]

It was a very good 2 part show! +1
Dark history there !

[marlinman93]

I watched part one, but thought the 2nd was a replay so turned off the set. Now I'm waiting for the replay so I can see part two.
A fair amount is info I knew because the demise and return of buffalo in America has always been something I'm interested in for most of my life. But I still learned a few more details concerning more people involved in bringing them back.

[Griff]

I enjoyed both parts 1 & 2, along with the short companion film. Learned a lot about the folks and wide variety of them who worked and are working to bring them back. But, I worry about the fervor of environmentalists(?) that would displace humans at the benefit of animals. Or other humans based on nothing other their own feelings of right or wrong.

[marlinman93]

I enjoyed both parts 1 & 2, along with the short companion film. Learned a lot about the folks and wide variety of them who worked and are working to bring them back. But, I worry about the fervor of environmentalists(?) that would displace humans at the benefit of animals. Or other humans based on nothing other their own feelings of right or wrong.

Humans are the only species not protected, and the environmentalists and PETA would be fine if we became extinct.

[coyote nose]

Yeah the demise of the buffalo is one of the things that bothers me about the past. Hard to believe train rides were offered to just shoot them and let them rot. While i love shooting buffalo rifles, its hard to stick up for what the actual buffalo hunters did. The problem is similar, for me, to what varminters do to prairie dogs. I just got back from 4 weeks in Montana and Wyoming. Used a 219 Zipper and a 250-3000 Savage on prairie dogs. Took a few out of each town and moved on. I personally find sitting at a table sipping lemonade and shooting hundreds, literally, to not be 'hunting' but rather slaughtering. I know others may disagree...just airing my thoughts after watching part 1 of the show and finding a discussion about it here on the forum. Back to buffalo (the mountain men called them that and so will I....a jackrabbit is actually a hare but no one calls it a jackhare) I read somewhere that one appeared outside of Pinedale Wyoming in the 1940s. No one knew where it came. They didnt know what to do....so they shot it. I have done searches to try to see if this story is actually true. Sad if it is.

[GunnyMack]

The good news is the bison has not been tamed! Sure you can fence them in but if you are a nitwit tourist that jumps the fence and get yourself turned into a puddle of goo ( has happened a few times on the buffalo farm not far from here) then you get what you deserve.
They are a grand creature, they always give he hope and leave me in awe of their majesty.

[Grizz]

The good news is the bison has not been tamed! Sure you can fence them in but if you are a nitwit tourist that jumps the fence and get yourself turned into a puddle of goo ( has happened a few times on the buffalo farm not far from here) then you get what you deserve.
They are a grand creature, they always give he hope and leave me in awe of their majesty.

yeah, I love the way they look, and I prefer buffalo burger to anything else. Luxury. I most likely will never shoot one. Don't have the energy to take care of the hide and collect the parts for recycle into useful stuff... I'm past that stage now. Mom will be relieved.

[marlinman93]

As bad as the slaughter and near extinction of the buffalo was, it does my heart good to know some were caring enough to try to save them before they became extinct. Even though almost all who worked to save them were involved to some extent in eliminating them.
As for prairie dogs, I've taken far more than I could ever imagine, and as long as I can continue to varmint hunt I'll do so. Most ranchers that allow me to shoot on their ranges lose a lot of cattle to broken legs stepping in prairie dog holes, and unlike bison, I see little a prairie dog does to better the environment? And considering every spring when we return to the same fields to varmint hunt, we see the same number of dogs again, I'd say if we weren't taking a lot out, the problem would be even worse.

[Grizz]

As bad as the slaughter and near extinction of the buffalo was, it does my heart good to know some were caring enough to try to save them before they became extinct. Even though almost all who worked to save them were involved to some extent in eliminating them.
As for prairie dogs, I've taken far more than I could ever imagine, and as long as I can continue to varmint hunt I'll do so. Most ranchers that allow me to shoot on their ranges lose a lot of cattle to broken legs stepping in prairie dog holes, and unlike bison, I see little a prairie dog does to better the environment? And considering every spring when we return to the same fields to varmint hunt, we see the same number of dogs again, I'd say if we weren't taking a lot out, the problem would be even worse.

I agree they are a menace. I wonder how many horses were lost that way too. Of course, if every forecast mass extinction comes to pass at the same time they may be the only survivors and the only food source left . . .

[GunnyMack]

Just remember the prarie rats carry bubonic plague!
I'm not sure varmint hunters could ever wipe them out unless you camped out on 1 town at a time, had a truck load of ammo, multiple barrels/rifles every day sun up to sun down for years. I know I shot my share of them, 22 for under 100, my 25-20 & 17 rem for 1-200 , a 22-250 for long pokes. Man I miss that.

[Grizz]

Just remember the prarie rats carry bubonic plague!
I'm not sure varmint hunters could ever wipe them out unless you camped out on 1 town at a time, had a truck load of ammo, multiple barrels/rifles every day sun up to sun down for years. I know I shot my share of them, 22 for under 100, my 25-20 & 17 rem for 1-200 , a 22-250 for long pokes. Man I miss that.

Prolly easier to gas them. Nitrogen to displace the O2. nite nite OR truck exhaust

[GunnyMack]

Ammonia works too but not anywhere near as much fun as shooting them!

[marlinman93]

Just remember the prarie rats carry bubonic plague!
I'm not sure varmint hunters could ever wipe them out unless you camped out on 1 town at a time, had a truck load of ammo, multiple barrels/rifles every day sun up to sun down for years. I know I shot my share of them, 22 for under 100, my 25-20 & 17 rem for 1-200 , a 22-250 for long pokes. Man I miss that.

You do it the same way as we do Gunny!
We start out close up with .22RF rifles, and then switch to my .22-250 for 150-400 yd. shots. Some years back I bought a CZ 452 in .17HMR to cover mid-range varmints, so now I use it past 100 to maybe 175 yds.
We never touch the sage rats, and once we stop to let barrels cool down it takes maybe 5 minutes for the turkey vultures to swoop down and begin gobbling up dead sage rats. They're amazing to see them grab one, toss it up in the air, and catch and swallow them in one gulp! In about 15 minutes work 8-10 vultures will be done and not a single carcass left.
Wait maybe an hour and suddenly there's as many new sage rats popping up as there was the first go around!

[coyote nose]

... unlike bison, I see little a prairie dog does to better the environment?

Read the book "Water" by Alice Outwater (her real name!) for one benefit. A mineral called caliche forms at the top of soils in the arid west. This limits rainwater infiltration of the aquifer since it is pretty much non-permeable. The caliche needs to be penetrated and broken up for replenishment rains to get through. Historically this was done by the buffalo (buffalo wallows) and the prairie dog burrows. Picture thousands of acres of wallows and burrows. 'Hunters" took out the buffalo (that they thought they would never be gone), so now that leaves only the dwindling prairie dog towns. Other benefits are food source for hawks, owls, coyote, fox, ferrets, etc. Here in Ohio my property is over run with house cats. Talking to the owners is useless, the owners are all proud of the mice they eat. Yeah...meanwhile for me to see a hawk, owl, fox, or coyote is rare due to no food for them. Those at the bottom of the food chain (mice, prairie dogs, etc) are certainly vital to a healthy environment.
In any case my comment above was basically in regards to how similar, to me, the two 'hunting' methods were.
We certainly won't ever see eye to eye on this, but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents on this forum!

[Grizz]

... unlike bison, I see little a prairie dog does to better the environment?

Read the book "Water" by Alice Outwater (her real name!) for one benefit. A mineral called caliche forms at the top of soils in the arid west. This limits rainwater infiltration of the aquifer since it is pretty much non-permeable. The caliche needs to be penetrated and broken up for replenishment rains to get through. Historically this was done by the buffalo (buffalo wallows) and the prairie dog burrows. Picture thousands of acres of wallows and burrows. 'Hunters" took out the buffalo (that they thought they would never be gone), so now that leaves only the dwindling prairie dog towns. Other benefits are food source for hawks, owls, coyote, fox, ferrets, etc. Here in Ohio my property is over run with house cats. Talking to the owners is useless, the owners are all proud of the mice they eat. Yeah...meanwhile for me to see a hawk, owl, fox, or coyote is rare due to no food for them. Those at the bottom of the food chain (mice, prairie dogs, etc) are certainly vital to a healthy environment.
In any case my comment above was basically in regards to how similar, to me, the two 'hunting' methods were.
We certainly won't ever see eye to eye on this, but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents on this forum!

Good post. Caliche gets as hard as concrete and they used dynamite in the Phoenix Valley to make swimming pools. I think the tunnels aiding the aquifer is valuable knowledge. I recently saw a video about mircats. Put a camera on one and got a look at their tunnel system. I wonder if prarie dog tunnels have been surveyed.

grizz

[marlinman93]

The areas where prairie dogs or sage rats live is usually not very good farm land. Even if a farmer breaks up the hard surface, and farmers break it up far better than rodents do. So looking at areas where we varmint hunt that have thousands of sage rats burrowing I don't see any better growth because of their borrows? Most ranchers simply let the areas grow whatever sage brush or wild grasses grow, and try not to over graze the areas because they support so few head of cattle. We have areas without sage rats that support a couple cows per acre, but the areas where the sage rats are usually figure 6 acres per head.
I don't see where the sage rats are doing anything except causing damage that results in injured cattle.

[coyote nose]

The areas where prairie dogs or sage rats live is usually not very good farm land. Even if a farmer breaks up the hard surface, and farmers break it up far better than rodents do. So looking at areas where we varmint hunt that have thousands of sage rats burrowing I don't see any better growth because of their borrows? Most ranchers simply let the areas grow whatever sage brush or wild grasses grow, and try not to over graze the areas because they support so few head of cattle. We have areas without sage rats that support a couple cows per acre, but the areas where the sage rats are usually figure 6 acres per head.
I don't see where the sage rats are doing anything except causing damage that results in injured cattle.

Hi marlinman. I wasn't clear in my post. The rainwater infiltration problem is not for growing crops on farm land AT the location of the burrows/wallows, it was to replenish the underground aquifers that supply water to a large part of the agricultural areas down stream...actually 'down watertable'. So water goes down into the deep surface in Wyoming though breaks in the caliche and other permeable areas, for example, travels underground through the porous rock units into Kansas, and is pumped out there.The Ogallala aquifer (look it up on wikipedia) is a huge groundwater source that is seriously being depleted. The recharge area of that aquifer is in states like Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, while it is used in Nebraska, Kansas, Texas....

[marlinman93]

I'm still not too concerned since buffalo only drop one calf, or on rare occasion two per year. Whereas most rodents drop large litters, multiple times a year. I doubt even a huge number of hunters like there were in the buffalo days would put much of a dent towards extinction of rodents.