From the old Sixgunner.Com Archives

[JimT]

It Starts in 1935 by Paco Kelly

Up until the year 1935 the word "magnum" was used primarily with Champaign bottles that were larger than the normal quart sized. That year Smith & Wesson brought out the first handgun cartridge called a magnum, because of it's larger shell casing. The .357 magnum was really just the .38 Special elongated by a tenth of an inch.......but it was the pressure difference that made the new cartridge. When in 1930 Smith & Wesson upgraded the .38 Special to the .38/44 they used the same cartridge case as the Special but jumped the pressure to around 20,000 to 25,000 psi. The ammo boxed were marked "To be used in .38/44 handguns only" (fixed-sighted, heavy-frame 44/45 frame revolvers). A year or so later the .38/44 Outdoorsman came on the scene. It was basically the same heavy-frame gun but with adjustable sights.

From 1930 through to the beginning of 1935, the development of the .357 was underway. Doug Wesson (the head of S&W) felt the .38/44 was good but more would be better. To keep the .357 case from being accidentally fired in a .38 Special handgun the case was lengthened so they wouldn't chamber. And the pressure of the new round was in the 40,000 plus psi levels. Even at it's incredibly expensive $60 per copy it sold well. The .38/44 Outdoorsman was $45 at the time and that was considered expensive for the Depression era 1930's. For the years 1935 through 1940, Roy Jinks (the S&W Historian) states 6642 S&W handguns in .357 were sold. More than 1200 a year. Not bad for the times and price.

The Second World War stopped production in 1940. In 1950 when production and sales started again almost 3600 guns were sold in that one year. And the .357 magnum has sold....and sold well....every year since then. It has been chambered in many manufacturers guns and sold in hundred of styles and models.

Doug Wesson gave Phil Sharpe the credit for the lions share of the .357's development. Elmer Keith has stated that he also contributed to it's development and he did, in a limited way. He sent Wesson a large number of his cast bullets that he designed. (Lyman still makes the mold) And he sent the loading data he was using in .38 Special cases in the .38/44 revolvers. He states in his book SIXGUNS that the load was 11 gr. of Number 80 powder. (now long obsolete) Keith also points out that this load wrecked many small-framed .38 Specials.

As Elmer himself tells it, Winchester told Wesson that the load data of Keith's generated over 40,000 psi which they thought was crazy. ventually Winchester backed away from the project. But...Remington picked up where they left off. And when 2400 powder was finally developed it was used in the .357. Approximately 15.8 gr. of it. I have read a number of different experts who state that it was 15 gr., but the point amount fluctuates from .2 to .8 grains, depending on who you read. I get 15.8 gr. from a WRA .357 magnum cartridge I opened and weighed. It was a factory load from the late 1930's. They velocity of those WRA cartridges were well over 1500 fps.....knocking out speculation that the original loadings in .357 did not get as high velocity as the advertising stated. The advertising stated 1510 fps and the original loads were above that.

So the .357 ads were not hoopla but truth. And the load data that Keith gave them (that generated "so much" pressure) was the pressure they had to go to anyway. They could have saved themselves money and years of development and testing if they had listened to Keith from the start.

The interesting fact here is that Keith was using 40,000 psi pressure in the .38/44 handguns for years. And never had a problem with the guns not being able to handle it, and then some. But when S&W brought out the .357 magnum handgun they said it had to have special steel and special heat-treating and a lot of other statements about the uniqueness of the gun's structure over the other handguns. Chances are that other than cosmetic changes in the .38/44 specs, and a .357 magnum length chamber.....both guns were made of the same steel and had the same heat-treatment.

Like is stated by many knowledgeable gun folks, there are better caliber's to hunt with for big game. But if the .357 mag is NOT powerful enough for soft animals 200 pounds or so down....then how can the experts recommend the .357 for Law Enforcement? Some of the criminals I've run into over my career were much bigger, far stronger, very hard, downright nasty, and much more aggressive than any poor soft-bodied deer-sized game.

Lets give that whole line of thinking a rest. Either it is or it isn't.......it cannot be one and not the other. Of seventeen shootings I was involved (either personally or in an investigative capacity) where the .357 was used, I would have to say it is well capable of handling living creatures of 200 pounds and above. Especially when you consider police-type guns usually have 4 inch barrels or less. And the trend today is to use even less powerful ammo and caliber's like the various 9mm's. And they incapacitate nasty criminals every day.

Hunting handguns usually have six inch or better barrels and heavy hunting loads, unlike some police guns and loads. Practice, the right bullet, the right load, the right gun and the right sights are the keys. We do the hunting public (those that can't handle the big .40 plus magnum caliber's) a disservice by not explaining how to, and what to use, with the .357 to hunt. There are folks out there that are going to hunt with the .357 no matter what we say. No....we should be in the business of guiding them and giving them knowledge to make them and their firearm effective.

The big Rugers, Taurus, S&W's and other strongly made handguns should be the ones recommended for hunting. And it should be carefully explained that the smaller and lighter .357's are for personal defense and police work. Information on what loads are effective, what bullets work well, and what the limit is on distances should be made accessible to those who choose to hunt with the .357 magnum. Exactly like is done with the larger caliber's.

I have read horror stories of how deer and black bear were not stopped with .357's. Like the famous story of one writer who shot a black bear at point-blank range several times without stopping it. He blamed the .357 that he used. But when you find out his load data a different story emerges. His load was a 158 gr. cast bullet at 1100 fps - a warm .38 Special defense load! That is not a .357 hunting load! And that is my point. My coyote load alone is a 170 gr. or more cast load at near 1500 fps. My deer load today uses a Hornady 180 gr. XTP at over 1400 fps. I keep my hunting range at 50 to 75 yards. Hunting loads, .357 magnum pressures, in hunting handguns.....not a .38 +P defense load.

The lowering of pressures and the smaller defensive handguns in .357 have been a great added plus to personal safety, but a detriment in the hunting field. When we hunt with the .357 let's use a real .357 magnum gun and load.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Very good Jim. Thanks for posting.

[JimT]

Very good Jim. Thanks for posting.

I was reading your posts earlier and it reminded me of Paco's article where he spoke about the .357 and early loads. So I looked it up and posted it it.

I shot his .357 handloads over the years and watched him shoot them. They were heavy! And effective.

[Scott Tschirhart]

You and I have been loading and shooting 14.5 gr of 2400 behind a 160-173 gr bullet for how many years?

Not to Paco levels, but certainly closer to what the .357 was meant to be.

[JimT]

You and I have been loading and shooting 14.5 gr of 2400 behind a 160-173 gr bullet for how many years?

Not to Paco levels, but certainly closer to what the .357 was meant to be.

I started handloading for the .357 when I was 15 ... 62 years ago. The Keith SWC and 14.5 gr. 2400 lit by a Small Rifle primer was my standard load. I have shot thousands of them.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I don’t go back that far my Brother, but I’ve shot a lot of that load and still do.

[Bill in Oregon]

And I know who Paco meant when he mentioned the gunwriter who shot a black bear several times without stopping it.

[JDL]

I do admire the .357 and want to get a carbine to with my handgun.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I do admire the .357 and want to get a carbine to with my handgun.

A carbine really makes the .357 turn on!

[JimT]

The .357 is a completely different animal from a rifle or carbine.

[mickbr]

I used a 357 carbine for most hunting for a few years due to some physical restrictions at the time. I was loading down 158 grain bullets to 1300-1400fps , technically still revolver power and took all size hogs. Killed a few smaller ones broadside with the 125grain remington UMC 38+P factory rounds. These exited the 20" barrel at 1300fps.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I used a 357 carbine for most hunting for a few years due to some physical restrictions at the time. I was loading down 158 grain bullets to 1300-1400fps , technically still revolver power and took all size hogs. Killed a few smaller ones broadside with the 125grain remington UMC 38+P factory rounds. These exited the 20" barrel at 1300fps.

That’s a good idea to load down some revolver bullets. I think an XTP needs to be driven fairly hard to get it to expand.

[GunnyMack]

I used a 357 carbine for most hunting for a few years due to some physical restrictions at the time. I was loading down 158 grain bullets to 1300-1400fps , technically still revolver power and took all size hogs. Killed a few smaller ones broadside with the 125grain remington UMC 38+P factory rounds. These exited the 20" barrel at 1300fps.

That’s a good idea to load down some revolver bullets. I think an XTP needs to be driven fairly hard to get it to expand.

I talked to Hornady, Speer and Nosler about their .41 210gr jhps at the 1800 +fps from my Henry. Both Hornady and Speer said NO, TOO FAST. The guy at Nosler said go for it, how are you getting 1800+ out of a 41 mag? Henry Big Boy I says and gave him the load data. He said I'm ordering one of those Henry's after work!
Hornady doesn't make the Mag version in 41, do they for 357? The mag version probably needs to go faster ?
The 300gr .430 went clean through broadside on a big hog, was about .75" exit. Hog didn't even twitch at the shot, took about 5 steps and flopped over.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Imagine what a shocking event it was for Smith & Wesson and Remington to release a sixgun and cartridge rated for a 158 gr bullet at 1500 fps!

Of course the 7.63 Mauser clocked 1450 fps, but it was mighty uncommon here and was only available in a FMJ military style loading.

The .357 was a major step up and still isn’t a bad choice today.

[mickbr]

I used a 357 carbine for most hunting for a few years due to some physical restrictions at the time. I was loading down 158 grain bullets to 1300-1400fps , technically still revolver power and took all size hogs. Killed a few smaller ones broadside with the 125grain remington UMC 38+P factory rounds. These exited the 20" barrel at 1300fps.

That’s a good idea to load down some revolver bullets. I think an XTP needs to be driven fairly hard to get it to expand.

Yes the Rem 125 SJHP expand around 950fps, at 1200fps or so the nose fragments but the main part penetrates. In 357 the XTP's are tougher, much more than the speed of sound to expand ...except the 158XTP HP. For whatever reason just its nose is soft enough to get some early expansion and peel back a bit to 50cal at around 1000fps, where the 110,125, 180xtp's will not.