So, I'm Waiting For Election Results . . . .

[Old Savage]

If you read what liberals think you will see they have a greatly impaired ability to accurately assess - they seem to think i phrases planted in their minds and caricatures.

[nemhed]

And the irony of my above post is that I'm guilty of labeling the labelers (ad nauseum). So my apologies to everyone, especially bulldog1935, who I wasn't specifically picking on by quoting his post.

[bdhold]

fair enough, Doug. Maybe we can ride the hill country some day.
Ron Mc

[Old Savage]

Labels can be good - Obama voters for whatever reason are "Not Real Americans".

[bdhold]

the majority of Americans are not Americans. grand - that will make progress (sorry, sarcasm again - I got to get over that)

the country was split over two issues. Obama was re-elected over social issues and the independents who voted for him (i.e., elected him) didn't even think about the economy, taxes, or the wefare state.
(the people who want the welfare state are his automatic voters)

Those who are worried about the economy, taxes and the welfare state are going to have to divorce themselves from social issues.

[COSteve]

I personally think that the election was a slam dunk for the Republicans if we would have found a way to get our head our of our *** on social issues where the party platform is dead wrong. I think that both Steve LaTourette's (R-Ohio) "We have the right message on the finances. We have to get out of people's lives, get out of people's bedrooms and we have to be a national party, or else we're going to lose." and Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas) comments on CNN's Starting Point recently, "People have to stop acting like the woman is the throw-away in elections. We had Republican candidates who got very high profile and said some very stupid things. I think that really tainted the party." are right on.

We lost a slam dunk election because we are focusing on a losing platform. Religion is the purview of individuals, not government. People expect personal freedoms and respect, not government dictates. The voters chose a dogmatic socialist because we gave them no real viable choice. As long as we Republicans continue to do that there is no hope. The days of Rush Limbaugh, the Religious Right, and dogmatic thinking are over, because they are obsolete and hurtful to the country.

[Old Savage]

Not so Steve - what you saw was a ground swell of liberals all wanting something - get rid of the "social issue" Rs and you will lose millions of voters who aren't going to vote for anything else and you won't get the liberals. Kay is right though - there were some stupid things said that lost a couple of senate races and Romney should not have stuck with the one fellow.

It appears the country has tipped with young women, blacks, hispanics and liberal white males all going lib. It happened in CA and I doubt if it is going to change.

Or you saw voter fraud.

[DixieBoy]

Hobie - I hope you're seeing this thread, and letting it stay here because it is doing some good and I hope it stays that way.

By that I mean that, just among us guys here we are all a little different. We're all guns and shooting guys or we wouldn't be here on this forum. Okay, that's a given. But even among us guns and shooting guys there are guys who only shoot fine hunting rifles, and there are guys who only shoot cowboy guns, and there are guys who mainly shoot semi-auto pistols in matches, and a whole bunch more.

So, alright, we share this. But even among us guns and shooting guys, there are guys who can't be bothered to object when the semi-auto guys (or, heaven forbid, the full auto guys, or the suppressor enthusiasts) come under attack. Remember that whole Jim Zumbo business from a few years back ? Perfect example.

We fall for the old divide-and-conquer thing every time. And if there's anything a politician is good at (because they're not good at much) it's dividing and conquering us. Except for good old Barry Goldwater, and maybe Ron Paul (please forgive me if I left out your personal favorite) almost all of our politicians have figured out ways to split us up into groups, divide us, and then pit one group against the other.

They usually do this for the purpose of sticking their hands in the one groups' pockets, while the other group smirks and laughs. But then, the pendulum swings, the other party is in power, the previous smirking and laughing group now gets pickpocketed, and now both groups just got robbed, pitted against each other, and the government grows just a little fatter and more obtrusive.

Besides taking our money, most of us get angry when government also tries to take away our freedom(s). For most of us here, one of these primary freedoms is the freedom to use whatever type of firearm we chose as long as we are not harming others with it, or being irresponsible with our firearms through negligence. I'm not trying to split hairs here, but trying to state a basic principle. Please save the hair splitting for a political thread in another section.

As I see it, this election ought to have shown us conservatives and libertarians that we're going to have to push the truly great stuff we've got going for us, and maybe either de-emphasize or completely eliminate the things that drag us down. We do that, or we won't win elections any more.

Some think that this means turning our backs on our principles and deeply held beliefs. I'm not so sure now. I think that the conservative and libertarian crews have the CORRECT, RIGHT, and GOOD idea when it comes to limited government, having the opportunity to succeed as far as your talents can take you - without being shackled by a zillion government taxes and regulations, personal responsibility, low taxes (which also makes charitable giving much easier), that the Constitution means what it says, even though politicians since at least Woodrow Wilson have been trying to make it "a living document" so that they could twist it into being meaningless, that government should not have any say in matters such as who a business can hire and who it cannot, or how many of each minority or gender or ethnicity a business must hire, etc. I think all but the most hardcore anti-freedom extremists could probably agree on these things I just listed.

Now, we have a Republican party which many, if not most, of us have voted with for at least a few elections. This party was hurt, badly, by allowing itself to be defined by the opposition and by the press (pretty much the same thing) in this most recent election, and also, in elections in the recent past. Two of the things that several of you guys have mentioned, and CO Steve put so well into words, are the Republican party's opposition to gay marriage and abortion on demand.

It blows my mind that we are in a situation where we have 23 million Americans either out of work or not employed fully (I'm one of them for a year now), we have a $16 Trillion debt, yearly $One Trillion deficits, record numbers of Americans on food stamps ... all of it ... yet, we might have just lost this election because the public perception of these two issues - especially the abortion issue - is so easily manipulated by the media that a significant portion of the women's vote was lost. Ironically, many women who would shudder at the thought of having an abortion themselves, still consider this to be as big an issue as us guys do with our guns. Soooo... we lost them. We lost those votes.

To my thinking, we need not change our position if it is in opposition to gay marriage, or to abortion issues. But we're going to have to either drop them as platform issues, or we will never win an election again. Not a big national election. And in losing these elections, one after another, we lose the chance to protect free enterprise, our Constitutional rights, and so much more that is good and great about the conservative/libertarian way of doing things. As for immigration, I believe that we've really needed someone to put this issue in the most clear terms possible, not allow the position to be distorted or mis-represented and carry on from there. Here is how I would address that one:

"Fellow Americans: Most of us own homes, and most of these homes have front doors. Most of these doors have locks, so that we can keep our families safe, and only allow people into our homes that our family - we Americans - wish to be in our homes. This is how every free country the world over has traditionally controlled its borders for centuries, so that it allowed in those people who it wished inside its borders, and only those people.

"Now, for many years, our southern border with our neighboring country of Mexico has been neglected. This is no secret. Many of our best and finest American citizens today have immigrated - legally - from Mexico and have pursued the challenging and rigorous path to American citizenship. We salute these fine Americans. They are a great asset to America. However, we all are also aware that there are millions of immigrants in America today, many of them who are working here now, and many with families. Our challenge today is in how to fairly deal with these people, who did indeed come to American illegally, yet are here now.

"We must find a way to fairly address this situation, and whatever method at which we arrive, it must not make a mockery of those immigrants' struggle who came to America legally, who pursued legal citizenship to become Americans, and now ARE American citizens. To do anything less is nothing short of a slap in the face to these dedicated and law abiding American citizens of Mexican origin. We must find a way to address our current situation which does not make a mockery of our own borders, our immigration process, and does not mock the great lengths to which our fine new American citizens have persevered in order to achieve American citizenship. To do less does justice to no one. Thank you."

I'll leave the details and the squabbling over the details to the politicians and for another time.

Guys, I want to see our country survive, and not as a welfare state on it's way to becoming Greece. Some say that we're too far gone already. I refuse to believe that. And if it's true, I'll fight to see us retain as much of what is good about America until they stop me from breathing. What I know with certainty is that there are still many, many, more people who would rather earn a paycheck here - a good one - than to barely survive as welfare recipients. If that changes, then we really are finished. But I will not believe that we are there now. Our challenge now is to truly work on getting the core of our message out there to the voters in a way that cannot be misconstrued. And get rid of these absolute deal-breakers which only assure our continued losses in attempting to restore freedom. We can't "sell" freedom if we are talking about limiting freedom out of the other side our mouths. - DixieBoy

[bdhold]

Not so Steve - what you saw was a ground swell of liberals all wanting something

here's your clue.
Those who want something will always vote democrat.
Obama was not re-elected by them.

Obama was re-elected by independents, who instead of voting republican, voted democrat over social issues.
is this thing on?

[Old Savage]

Take the social issue things out and I won't vote with you. Let me rephrase that - flip to supporting abortion and gay marriage and I won't vote for you. Romney was about as moderate as you are going to see.

In all the complaints here I see no political answers and nobody in politics. You might as well advise AJ about medicine.

The liberals are the ones introducing the social issues. Hurtful to the country - give me a break - where did you get that - liberal talking points?

[bdhold]

Take the social issue things out and I won't vote with you. Let me rephrase that - flip to supporting abortion and gay marriage and I won't vote for you. Romney was about as moderate as you are going to see.

In all the complaints here I see no political answers and nobody in politics. You might as well advise AJ about medicine.

neither issue is a federal issue, and you can't vote for or against either one in any presidential election.

[Old Savage]

True, my point exactly, but that is what many liberals vote on. Neither issue is in the constitution but the libs put them there in the public consciousness - many women vote on the legal ability to kill their children.

[bdhold]

it wasn't the liberals that re-elected the president - it never is - it was independents and moderates who were allowed to believe that we were going to put women who have had abortions in jail.

so the republicans need to stick to the real topics and divorce themselves from any appearance of state issues.

[Old Savage]

Here is an example:

From a teacher in the Nashville area: “In this past election, we were worried about “the cow” when it was all about the “Ice Cream.” The most eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching 3rd grade. The Presidential election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest. I decided we would have an election for a class president. We would choose our nominees. They would make a campaign speech and the class would vote. To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members. We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have. We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the top spot. The class had done a great job in their selections. Both candidates were good kids. I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support. I had never seen Olivia's mother.

The day arrived when they were to make their speeches. Jamie went first. He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better place. He ended by promising to do his very best. Everyone applauded and he sat down. Now is was Olivia's turn to speak. Her speech was concise. She said, "If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream." She sat down. The class went wild. "Yes! Yes! We want ice cream." She surely would have said more but she did not have to.

A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? She wasn't sure. But no one pursued that question. They took her at her word. Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it...She didn't know.
The class really didn't care. All they were thinking about was ice cream. Jamie was forgotten. Olivia won by a landslide.

Every time Barack Obama opened his mouth he offered ice cream and 51.4 % of the people reacted like nine year olds. They wanted ice cream. The other 48.6% percent knew they were going to have to feed the cow and clean up the mess.”

[bdhold]

they did not elect the president.

moderates and independents who were worried about social issues did
is this thing on?

[Old Savage]

On the moderates and independents - now how are you going to woo them - throw out a part of the base?

America goes 357 or 44 Mag - 270 or 30-06. You can't really construct a platform on the 41 mag or 280.

But you may find the Rs ditching the Bible based portion and going welfare, gay marriage and abortion, that would be the choice.

Make that trade and I won't be with you.

[bdhold]

you can't legislate the bible, and gay marriage is not a federal issue - it's a state issue.

the point is the republican politicians need to quit pandering to you, and let you vote by your need, not by your ego.

if you're anything like me, you need smaller government and fair taxes.

[Old Savage]

This has nothing to do with my ego don't try that red herring and you have the issue backwards on gay marriage - it comes up in every campaign nationally - so what are you going to do - lie, don't answer?

[bdhold]

I need smaller federal government and fair taxes - I am taxed to death, a professional, single parent with no deductions paying the legal maximum child support, which is not tax deductible.
I don't give a GGD if Massachusetts votes for gay marriage, because Texas never will.
I makes me mad as hades that this election was given back to the most wasteful administration in US history so that the bible could be thrown around for 6 months at a cost of 6 billion dollars.
Selah.

[Blaine]

Just throwing this out there......maintaining a single litmus test for your candidate will sometimes throw out the baby with the bathwater...... Twenty years ago, Limbaugh said that if Conservatives run on true conservative values, they will win.....I voted "R", and will always vote "R", but, since the MSM picked the "R" candidate early on, it didn't pass the smell test.

[Old Savage]

True and both candidates got less votes than the Rs and Obama got last time around. So the I won't vote for this R now have Obama in there apparently already negotiating with the UN over anti gun initiatives. And there maybe three liberal judges that will certainly go against the second amendment. So, who didn't vote - not sure. But it seems my first impression was maybe wrong - have to see more on the turn out.

[bdhold]

one of the highest turnouts in US history

[Old Savage]

From what I have seen so far Obama got less votes than he did in 08 and Romney got less than McCain.

[bdhold]

here's the map.
there are 35 EC votes that would need to be reversed to reverse the election result.
PA and OH both, VA would not be enough to help either without both

unless, of course, you could talk some sense into CA

[Old Savage]

Fla will likely go dem.

You have vote totals?

Barring some extra elective solution we have to determine how to go from here. Maybe states that went 60%-40% Romney like Texas are the place to be. Don't know what profession you are in but in mine when they change the rules I have adjust. No pun intended and the rules are different state to state.

There is a tendency to blame parties and candidates - I would blame the electorate that would vote for Obama with all that we knew this time. in the interest of civility I will refrain from characterizing them.

[Blaine]

If BoBo can't follow through, the mid-terms will blow him out of the water. Personally, I know Banghazi is not even close to being dead....He'll burn in hell for that one.

[Old Savage]

He still gets the judge picks. They would likely reverse the second amendment if they could.

[shooter]

they did not elect the president.

moderates and independents who were worried about social issues did
is this thing on?

Spot on. If the social issues were left to the states, as they should be, and weren't a factor in national elections, the fiscally conservative candidate would win the majority of the time. So many people are turned off by the government trying to legislate their morality that they vote for the guy that wants to legislate their spending. You want the moderates and independents to vote for your candidate? Give the power back to the states.

[Old Savage]

Social issues are the wedge issues of the libs who insert them to confuse and disorient independents/moderates which is not too hard as they don't seem to realize what is being done.

[Pitchy]

All i can say is if we have to become like them to win then He!! with it.

[COSteve]

I had no idea that this thread would go this way, however, it is a testament to the good sense and good manners of the people who post here that we can have a discussion with varying opinions and yet keep the discussion calm, respectful, and good natured.

I'm honored to know you all.

[Mescalero]

I think you set the tone with insightful analysis of the republican party.

[Blaine]

All i can say is if we have to become like them to win then He!! with it.

Hey, you didn't crew chief that bird to drop cotton balls Maybe it's time for the next American Civil War.....

[bdhold]

All i can say is if we have to become like them to win then He!! with it.

Pitchy, I love Jesus.
But it won't get me elected president (nor should it).
If we don't shut up and let political/economic issues run the elections, we will forever be run by socialists and fringe-group liberals.
No one is going to force your granddaughter to have an abortion or make you marry the guy next door.

Here are the issues that we lost - not one of them has to do with the bible

Limited government
Tax reform
A strong military
The rule of law
Reducing regulations
Promoting capitalism – especially small businesses
Restoring self-reliance
Honoring the Constitution

The president was elected by people who are afraid of you and me. They would have voted for everything on the list above, but instead, they voted against social issues that no one was voting for anyway.

We lost the election over rhetoric.
Issues that no one was voting for on the federal level, nor could they vote for on the federal level.
We lost the presidency over moral rhetoric about state issues.

[Pitchy]

All i can say is if we have to become like them to win then He!! with it.

Pitchy, I love Jesus.
But it won't get me elected president (nor should it).
If we don't shut up and let political/economic issues run the elections, we will forever be run by socialists and fringe-group liberals.
No one is going to force your granddaughter to have an abortion or make you marry the guy next door.

Here are the issues that we lost - not one of them has to do with the bible

Limited government
Tax reform
A strong military
The rule of law
Reducing regulations
Promoting capitalism – especially small businesses
Restoring self-reliance
Honoring the Constitution

The president was elected by people who are afraid of you and me. They would have voted for everything on the list above, but instead, they voted against social issues that no one was voting for anyway.

I like Rush`s answer better, they voted for Santa Clause.
They won, now let them run the country into the dirt then we`ll pick up the pieces and start over.
I`m not worried in the least, i am a born again Christian not a fake one that alows things just to win a election.
I`m not saying anyone here is that way but this country is in the sewer and reaping the rewards.

[bdhold]

Rush is the problem, not the solution.

He is entertainment. A figment of his own imagination. A divisive force that is nothing but rhetoric.
He lies to you and you buy it hook line and sinker.

IT WAS MODERATES AND INDEPENDENTS, ALL MIDDLE CLASS WORKERS, BUSINESS OWNERS AND PROFESSIONALS WHO RE-ELECTED OBAMA BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF WHAT RUSH SAYS.

[Pitchy]

Rush is the problem, not the solution.

He is entertainment. A figment of his own imagination. A divisive force that is nothing but rhetoric.
He lies to you and you buy it hook line and sinker.

IT WAS MODERATES AND INDEPENDENTS, ALL MIDDLE CLASS WORKERS, BUSINESS OWNERS AND PROFESSIONALS WHO RE-ELECTED OBAMA BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF RUSH.

Believe what you want.

[bdhold]

the hand out class is always going to vote democrat. Rush is a master of the obvious. He is lying to you and destroying our country while he does it.
TURN HIM OFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you haven't learned a thing Pitchy.

It was mainstream America rejecting Rush that re-elected Obama.

I am going to be robbed for the next four years because of Rush - I know where to put the blame.

[Pitchy]

the hand out class is always going to vote democrat. Rush is a master of the obvious. He is lying to you and destroying our country while he does it.
TURN HIM OFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you haven't learned a thing Pitchy.

It was mainstream American rejecting Rush that re-elected Obama.

Please don`t make this personal, i gave my opinion if you don`t agree that`s your right but don`t tell me what i believe or learned.
That`s all i`m going to say.

[bdhold]

yeah, well I have to try to survive it and I know what caused it, so it is personal

[Pitchy]

yeah, well I have to try to survive it and I know what caused it, so it is personal

Well maybe ya should go too that retreat of Hagges and ask him what got us to this point.
I don`t want to get in a fight about this but i`ll defend my belief in it`s all about the rejection of God out of this country that has gotten us to this point.
Ya can come up with all the in between excuses but it`s the big picture about kicking God out of the country that is the problem.
This is all part of the slide too the dark side from the country rejecting God and not supporting Israel.
IMO the problem is people haven`t taken the Bible seriously.

[Panzercat]

A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? She wasn't sure. But no one pursued that question. They took her at her word. Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it...She didn't know.
The class really didn't care. All they were thinking about was ice cream. Jamie was forgotten. Olivia won by a landslide.

Every time Barack Obama opened his mouth he offered ice cream and 51.4 % of the people reacted like nine year olds. They wanted ice cream. The other 48.6% percent knew they were going to have to feed the cow and clean up the mess.”

Awesome teacher is awesome.

Personally, I'm now firmly of the opinion that our president is a Vampire. No mere mortal could have survive four scandals, negligent performance through a mega storm, this horrendous economy and the complete failure of every campaign promise he ran on in 2008. Next time, I plan to by holy water and a stake before my trip to the voting booth.

[COSteve]

Remember Pitchy, we all have a right to our own opinions here. That's what makes this site so special, we all accept that fact. I don't agree with everything posted here, as likely many others don't either, however, we all must remember to respect someone's right to their opinion. Heck, both my kids are Democrats but I still love 'em.

[Pitchy]

Remember Pitchy, we all have a right to our own opinions here. That's what makes this site so special, we all accept that fact. I don't agree with everything posted here, as likely many others don't either, however, we all must remember to respect someone's right to their opinion. Heck, both my kids are Democrats but I still love 'em.

I don`t believe it, why would you say that i`m not the one that started this.
I said from the beginning we all have our opinions.

Tell ya what fellers i`ve had it, Steve i can`t believe you turned this around against me.
Fellers that`s it, i can`t deal with pelosi like this, hell with it, Hobie ban me for cussin at least that`s a reason.

[Pitchy]

Steve, not that i agree that i started anything i opoligize for getting upset.
I just got off the phone with a lady that owns a RV park in Texas that her husband has cancer, her uncle that lived ther just died and ather problems.
Anyone in the Fairfield area please look up Cereda at Cedar Grove RV park and pass on some love.
We`re all under stress from the election and it burdens my heart that we argue about anything but i had ne intention of arguement from the get go.
If i`m being a stress point then i`m failing in some way with what i say and please forgive me.

[Old Savage]

Well now - we had an argument going on on opinion and both sides were arguing. So, let's not just lay it on one. They can argue if they want. Didn't get all that stenuous - and a number of the points on bulldogs list are Biblical.

[Blaine]

Just smile and say "Bite Me"

[new pig hunter]

here's someone else's opinion on what the Republicans "need" to do .....

The way forward: Republicans
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/k ... J2Ykm_A_Sg

Cheers,

Carl

[olyinaz]

We Republicans have to take a serious look at revising our party's platform or risk becoming a footnote in history. I've been a Republican for close to 60 years but I feel alienated by my part's current platform and I'm not alone. Most here would argue that individual freedom as well as a separation of church and state are cornerstones of our beliefs. If true, then why are we as a party so intent upon dictating the moral, religious, and social direction of the people through the government?

Because the separation of church and state does not have anything to do with separating morality from state. If social direction is heading in a direction of moral decline and/or values that my personal religion do no support, then I will of course vote with that in mind but here's the rub: I think it's fully appropriate for a political party to seek favor from me and mine due to how we think/feel. The problem is me and mine are no longer in the majority!!

Face it boys, we're the minority. The Remnant. The Old Guard. There is NO political future in basing a party on our views in a two party system. Romney just proved that it's suicide (or at least he gave us a good hint - he wasn't the strongest candidate we might have offered up.)

So speak your piece, vote your conscience, and watch it all fall down around you because there isn't ANYTHING you can do about it. At least we have the predictions and Word of our God and Savior to comfort us - this was all foreseen.

Cheers,
Oly

[Blaine]

Oly, I don't think (could be I'm wrong) that Mitt had "our" views. At the point he was nominated, the best I hoped for was SCOTUS picks. The 'Crats used his religion against him. Mitt only mentioned his values when he bit on the negative bait the 'Crats were throwing out there.