Please don't hate me!!! Updated picked up today

[madman4570]

7.62 you kinda boun e all over the place bro. You said if its marked .223 no good. Then you copied my words check with mfg. Next its well maybe if they say yes or barrel is marked.
dude, think i am going to call you the bounce man.

Maybe you should actually read what I wrote before you call me anything. Or if you did, work on reading comprehension; it is as important grammar and punctuation.

and missing your words
hey,my excuse is this new smart phone and its key board,but i am learning.

[7.62 Precision]

I came across one a few months ago 7.62x39 with a nice Turkish stock on it. I wanted to convert it either 300 Whisper or 35 Russian but by the time I made up my mind it was snatched up a week later .

Mainehunter

You can do a .35 Russian, but for .300 Whisper, you are better off starting with a .223 rifle.


This it the one I want - 7.62x39 to convert to 6.5 Grendel.

[Malamute]

7.62, do you have any experience with the other importers of the mini-Mausers? I had a CZ, but didn't care for the detach mag sticking out, the ring issues, and the safety being backwards from every other bolt gun I'd ever used. I understand a number of importers used the basic action, but in a more standard formet as to safety, internal fixed mag and rings.

I didn't know which of the others would be worth looking at. I've read that some are a bit rough.

[7.62 Precision]

The Zastava Mini-Mauser always seemed pretty nice to me. I played with the ones imported by Charles Daly and Remington, and some of the Interarms imports. Finish quality sometimes depended on who it was being built for. I have seen others.

I have not looked at the K-Var imports yet, but I will try to look at them at SHOT Show, if I can squeeze some time away from the booth.

Charles Daly, Remington 799, Century Imports, and K-Var Mini-Mausers are all Zastava.
I am trying to remember the Parker-Hale models - can't remember if there was a Mini Mauser there and if it was a Zastava, but later Interarms imports were from Zastava, if I remember correctly.

I would buy one.

[Mescalero]

7.62,
Please find the time, if I could get one of those; flush magazine, Hang a Grendel barrel; I could get rid of 4 rifles and be content

[Mescalero]

7.62,
Please find the time, if I could get one of those; flush magazine, Hang a Grendel barrel; I could get rid of 4 rifles and be content

[Mescalero]

7.62,
Please find the time, if I could get one of those; flush magazine, Hang a Grendel barrel; I could get rid of 4 rifles and be content

[JerryB]

7.62 you had best git on it. Reckon 'Ol Mesci means it this time.

[Rusty]

I know it's not a Mini Mauser but Jr has had such great results from his Ruger 77 I'm really looking at those. Besides they have the 1:9 twist.

[7.62 Precision]

7.62 you had best git on it. Reckon 'Ol Mesci means it this time.

Yep, I'm sufficiently impressed. Penciling a visit to the K-Var booth into my SHOT Show schedule now . . .

Except I don't see a 7.62x39 on their website.

[7.62 Precision]

I know it's not a Mini Mauser but Jr has had such great results from his Ruger 77 I'm really looking at those. Besides they have the 1:9 twist.

It is a Mauser, though, basically. Only thing about the Ruger 77s is that they have the funny lug/action screw design and accuracy sometimes works out and sometimes not. For a tough boat/truck/brush gun they are great, though.

[Mescalero]

No,
My laptop has issues, it needs to go to the geek squad at best buy.
I have been limping along with a host of issues

[Streetstar]

one of the items on my "to get" list is a quality .223 target rifle and I wanted to take advantage of the buckets and buckets of 5.56 brass I have from my prior AR fixation

So why not an AR for a target rifle, since they are so easy to accurize? Not criticizing, just curious - I like both. It is a pain that bolt rifles tend toward slower twist rates, and I prefer heavy bullets.

AR's can be very accurate, and I've built a couple that were real shooters, even with junk ammo --- they are also simple as heck and easy to understand, but I was wanting something "next level" --- Sako, or possibly Surgeon action (they're a local favorite here) , HArt or equivalent heavy barrel and a nice , heavy fiberglass stock.
Sounds like a benchrest rifle, I know , - but I wanted a repeater action rather than a single shot, plus something that wasn't so tight that I couldn't use cheap brass --- also wouldn't be using over 62 gr pills, -- no tactical aspirations whatsoever

Even the best AR's would not approach the accuracy numbers a rig like that should (should being the operative word) do on a consistent basis (aside from an occasional spectacular 3 shot group) --- but AR's have their place, and for offhand NRA style competition, I'd love an HBAR style gun --- have a customer with one that looks like a stock A2, except for the Krieger barrel under stock appearing a2 handguards - very cool

[7.62 Precision]

Even the best AR's would not approach the accuracy numbers a rig like that should (should being the operative word) do on a consistent basis (aside from an occasional spectacular 3 shot group) --- but AR's have their place, and for offhand NRA style competition, I'd love an HBAR style gun --- have a customer with one that looks like a stock A2, except for the Krieger barrel under stock appearing a2 handguards - very cool

Not true. An AR can do as well or better in accuracy for less money. The design of an AR is such that if you free-float a good barrel, you should be able to get incredible and consistent accuracy. Even less expensive barrels can shoot really well. I have some WOA barrels here that are not to expensive, but in my experience their barrels really shoot. Some of the DPMS stainless barrels, too, have a reputation for accuracy, though I trust DPMS less lately.

However, we don't do everything just for practical reasons, and I love a nice bolt action with a target/tactical stock. I really like a Sako action, Savages can be very accurate for some of the same reasons ARs are, but not as pretty as other bolt rifles, Howas are nice, and Win 70 and Rem 700s are great, of course.

Keep in mind that long bullets are not just an advantage for tactical purposes, but for any precision or long-range shooting, you want to use the heaviest bullets for the caliber. If you are building a rifle, it will cost no more to use a barrel with a 1/8 twist.

Just be sure to post pictures.

[Streetstar]

Even the best AR's would not approach the accuracy numbers a rig like that should (should being the operative word) do on a consistent basis (aside from an occasional spectacular 3 shot group) --- but AR's have their place, and for offhand NRA style competition, I'd love an HBAR style gun --- have a customer with one that looks like a stock A2, except for the Krieger barrel under stock appearing a2 handguards - very cool

Not true. An AR can do as well or better in accuracy for less money. The design of an AR is such that if you free-float a good barrel, you should be able to get incredible and consistent accuracy. .

Any less than 1/2 MOA is a crapshoot at best (I'm splitting hairs here, literally --- that is superlative accuracy by most standards to be sure-- and is more than good enough for what an AR is routinely called on to do ) -- and that is why AR's aren't burning up the ranges in BR competition (yet -- who knows) -- the AR is about at the limits of a self feeding design already , but I've already BTDT with some good stuff from LaRue and JP ----- none approached what my old 6mm BR could do - and with a "varmint chamber" not a true BR chamber, --- but I mistakenly sold that rifle in a fit of poverty

My personal thoughts on heavy bullets is that if you want to use heavier than a 68 -- its time to step up to a .243 --- but the heavy bullets is a great way for people to get a bit more out of a 5.56 for sure

Other than a couple of nice AR's , I haven't messed around with 5.56/223 stuff too much, (other than plinking with 55 grain stuff) but I wanted to build a rifle that had 8/10th the accuracy of a nice .22 BR chambered rifle , only in .223 -- and didn't want to deal with nearly the case prep benchrest accuracy demands -- It would make too much of a job out of it

[Canuck Bob]

I picked up the rifle today while on a sales trip to the bush. It is in NIB condition. One pleasant surprise is that it has the modified CZ bolt for scope clearance. I never bumped into a link for a new style left hand handle so maybe the rifles are being shipped this way now. It has a test target dated 8-10-2013. The seller just landed a surprise safari to Africa and needed to thin out the safe for pocket money I suspect.

These are really micro actions and fit nicely. The bolt would look right at home in a 22 if it wasn't for the slim little claw. The bolt is not rattly and needs some working to slicken up but is very nice already. The trigger will take some getting used to, when set it is light. Don't forget I think a Marlin 444 has a good trigger. I'm beginning to understand a bit about why guys are always so fussy about their triggers!

Of course I stopped at good old Canadian Tire and bought a value pack of 40 rounds of Winchester 45 grain cheap factory fodder. Then realized I left my smith screwdrivers with my scope at home!!!!!!! Oh well I guess I'll actually have to work. I'll try a group using the rings as an aperture, talk about a ghost ring, lol.

[7.62 Precision]

My personal thoughts on heavy bullets is that if you want to use heavier than a 68 -- its time to step up to a .243 --- but the heavy bullets is a great way for people to get a bit more out of a 5.56 for sure

Other than a couple of nice AR's , I haven't messed around with 5.56/223 stuff too much, (other than plinking with 55 grain stuff) but I wanted to build a rifle that had 8/10th the accuracy of a nice .22 BR chambered rifle , only in .223 -- and didn't want to deal with nearly the case prep benchrest accuracy demands -- It would make too much of a job out of it

Plus there are some really great precision factory loads for the .223.

The point of the heavy bullets is not to make the .223 into a .243, the point is to use the best precision bullets for the caliber, which are always the heaviest bullets for the caliber, so if you are doing the same thing, you would go with the heaviest-for-caliber bullets in a .243, and the same for a 6.5 mm, and so on.

So for LR precision bullets in a .243 you would ideally want to be somewhere around 115 gr. bullets, 140 gr. for 6.5mm, and so on. So while the heaviest (75-80 gr.) bullets in a 5.56 get into the lower weights of .243 bullets, they don't match the weight of the similarly purposed bullets in a .243. They are simply designed to get the most out of the 5.56 as a precision platform. Of course, .243 makes a really good LR caliber, but match ammo is not as readily available as 5.56 or some of the 6.5mms. The .223 is also cheaper and a lot of fun to shoot.

If you really want to stay with lighter bullets, Black Hills does a 69 gr.OTM load that is really great. They build it for a lot of the LE agencies that already have 1/9 twist ARs or bolt guns.

As far as accuracy, getting under 1/2 MOA with an AR is not so hard with the right barrel and the right ammo (though many try to go about it the wrong way and can actually decrease accuracy), but I'm kind of old-school, too, so to me a really nice little bolt rifle is hard to beat, especially if you want to go a different direction. Plus the bolt guns are really a lot sleeker and nicer to carry (as a precision setup) than an AR. I like your idea of building on a Sako; I have always liked them.

[Streetstar]

Plus the bolt guns are really a lot sleeker and nicer to carry (as a precision setup) than an AR. I like your idea of building on a Sako; I have always liked them.

- The one i want will be heavier than a Palma rifle when all is said and done --- but yes , should be sleeker appearing for sure

Sako does make a beautiful action -- and considerably cheaper than a Surgeon action to boot --but its hard to apply logical financial sense to a mild custom -- still , would be nice to bring it in under a certain price point, and a Sako would help achieve that -- i've been liquidating some rarely used firearms in an attempt to start the build

Interesting thoughts on the heavy bullets ---- but this wont be a long range rifle -- i want it to compete in an indoor bench rest league (100 yard range) -- but still have something i can take outside and plink with (maybe a prairie dog shoot or something) ------- LaRue does theirs up (AR stuff) with a .223 Wylde chamber in 1/8 twist that is supposed to stabilize heavy stuff , but doesnt throw the baby out with the bath water on lighter projectiles - i dont know who makes their barrels, but i am just now in the information gathering stage for this project --

But back to that CZ of Canuck Bob's --- i have got to take a look at one of those , -- i didnt realize they made them on a smaller action -- I have seen tons of 223 bolt rifles built on a standard short action (that can accomodate 308 size stuff too) --- that arent any lighter than a 308
that sounds like a neat choice for a woods walking gun (maybe not in AK ), coupled with a short, fat , 30mm tubed optic , it would make a slick rig

[7.62 Precision]

The 1/8 twist is great, and will still shoot 55 gr. bullets fine to shorter ranges, with accuracy degrading with range. I have shot as far as 100m with 55 gr. from a 1/7 twist barrel without a noticeable decrease in accuracy, but it was chrome lined barrels, not match barrels, so you might see it more shooting groups on paper from a match barrel.

The smaller action size of the CZ is what is attractive to me, and in 6.5 Grendel, it would make the handiest little carbine, and not expensive to shoot.

You would be surprised about the .223 in Alaska. It is one of the most popular hunting cartridges here and routinely drops deer, moose, caribou, bear, seal, etc.

I would shoot a moose with a .223 with the right bullets.

[madman4570]

The 1/8 twist is great, and will still shoot 55 gr. bullets fine to shorter ranges, with accuracy degrading with range. I have shot as far as 100m with 55 gr. from a 1/7 twist barrel without a noticeable decrease in accuracy, but it was chrome lined barrels, not match barrels, so you might see it more shooting groups on paper from a match barrel.

The smaller action size of the CZ is what is attractive to me, and in 6.5 Grendel, it would make the handiest little carbine, and not expensive to shoot.

You would be surprised about the .223 in Alaska. It is one of the most popular hunting cartridges here and routinely drops deer, moose, caribou, bear, seal, etc.

I would shoot a moose with a .223 with the right bullets.

now you are talking. I am absolutely amazed at how well that .223 takes deer. I had no idea in alaska it was used that much. In a 1 in 7 twist rate 20 inch barrel what bullet for moose.

excuse typing still not used to phone key board and what things do what?

[7.62 Precision]

now you are talking. I am absolutely amazed at how well that .223 takes deer. I had no idea in alaska it was used that much. In a 1 in 7 twist rate 20 inch barrel what bullet for moose.

excuse typing still not used to phone key board.

I can't use them. Phone keyboards, that is. I hand the phone to my wife and dictate, only when I have to use the phone.

Black Hills 62 gr. TSX. http://www.black-hills.com/rifle_calibers.php

It penetrates very deeply and expands to an average of .45" It retains an average of 100% of it's weight and will penetrate barriers very well, expanding reliably after penetrating a car door, for example.

As with everything, you have to be reasonable about shot placement and angles.

[madman4570]

now you are talking. I am absolutely amazed at how well that .223 takes deer. I had no idea in alaska it was used that much. In a 1 in 7 twist rate 20 inch barrel what bullet for moose.

excuse typing still not used to phone key board.

I can't use them. Phone keyboards, that is. I hand the phone to my wife and dictate, only when I have to use the phone.

Black Hills 62 gr. TSX. http://www.black-hills.com/rifle_calibers.php

It penetrates very deeply and expands to an average of .45" It retains an average of 100% of it's weight and will penetrate barriers very well, expanding reliably after penetrating a car door, for example.

As with everything, you have to be reasonable about shot placement and angles.

Thanks friend, am going to get me some of those!
The phone thing I am useless. Mine has that Voice option to text, but we ain't that far yet.

[Streetstar]

The phone thing I am useless. Mine has that Voice option to text, but we ain't that far yet.

I use that 90% of the time when texting , and maybe 50% of the time in the forums -- (on an ipad) -- its responsible for making my spelling look like that of a 9 year olds sometimes --- , but other times, is a great finger saver

[7.62 Precision]

Thanks friend, am going to get me some of those!

Oh, and on a moose with the BH TSX, I would consider it a close-medium range cartridge - I would keep it at a range that I would have confidence that the bullet would expand and also penetrate. So no 500 meter body shots on a moose. I would guess 200 meters with a 20" barrel should be good.

[madman4570]

Thanks 7.62. Great info.

Doug, all i know bro, you do better than i do.

[Rusty]

I used to talk to a fellow that lived about an hour west of Anchorage that had one of the old Ruger canoe paddle stainless M77s in .223. It was his go to caribou rifle.

Now y'all are talking about Sakos... not making things any easier you know.

[Canuck Bob]

I don't know much about these mini mauser options but my research indicated that the mini mausers are a bit different from the CZ micro mauser. The minis are like any standard action I think. The action is shortened but not scaled down as well. A ruger short action is only really different in length. The CZ action is a true scaled down action and why I chose it over a Browning X bolt SSA lefty (Super Short Action designed specifically for 223 length cartridges not just 243/308 SA length like most manufacturers).

My CZ 527 feels and fits just like an adult sized 22 rimfire.

The CZ action just looks right for these small cartridges. I would have liked to consider the little Carbine model in 7.62X39 but it is not made in left hand. To me the little rifle needs a receiver sight. What a dandy deer rifle. Nowhere as handy as a Winchester or Marlin 30-30 but quite useable.

[7.62 Precision]

I can shoot a left hand bolt rifle just as well as a right. (I can shoot left-handed as well as right, too, especially with my cross-domination issue.) But I don't mind shooting a left-handed bolt rifle right handed. I just use my left hand to run the bolt. There may actually be advantages to this, and a lot of tactical and competition shooters are going to left-hand bolts for those reasons.

[7.62 Precision]

The CZ action is a true scaled down action and why I chose it over a Browning X bolt SSA lefty (Super Short Action designed specifically for 223 length cartridges not just 243/308 SA length like most manufacturers).

My CZ 527 feels and fits just like an adult sized 22 rimfire.

The CZ action just looks right for these small cartridges. I would have liked to consider the little Carbine model in 7.62X39 but it is not made in left hand. To me the little rifle needs a receiver sight. What a dandy deer rifle. Nowhere as handy as a Winchester or Marlin 30-30 but quite useable.

That is exactly why I think it is perfect for the 6.5 Grendel conversion - the size is perfect. It beats putting any of these nice, compact little cartridges in a full-sized rifle.