Post 64 Winchester Finish

[ArcticGoose]

I know this is a topic that has been brought up before. However, there have been very few answers (that I could find) for those of us wanting to re-finish a post 64 Winchester. I understand that standard blueing does not work well on these guns. I also understand maybe we should just be happy and shoot them as they are. I can't help but think that there must be some options out there.

I have thought of getting it case colored. Unfortunatly, that tends to cost almost as much as I have in the gun. Things are kinda tight and $275-$300 is just too much to spend on this gun.

Another possible option is Stainless Steel Bluing (Oxinate 84). An outfit in Nebraska, Run-In-Iron http://www.runniron.com/finishes/stainless_steel.html does it but that is about all I know. Has anyone done business with Run-In-Iron or know about this finish on these guns? Their site says "Gerfidic metals, such as post '64 Winchester receivers, may also be blued through the use of Oxinate 84." I have emailed them asking about price and am waiting for their response.

Any thoughts or idea's on this subject would be greatly appericiated.

[20cows]

I just browned the last project post-64.



It gave me what I was looking for. You could probably get a darker finish by repeating the process if you desired.

[Noah Zark]

. . . Their site says "Gerfidic metals, such as post '64 Winchester receivers, may also be blued through the use of Oxinate 84."

Gerfidic? Meaning of, or pertaining to gerfids?

No such word in the dictionary.

IMO they are referring to sintered metals, or more specifically sintered powdered metal. Metal powder the consistency of wheat flour is compacted in a set of dies under many tons per sq in of pressure, resulting in a near net-shape part. That part is in the green state, meaning it will break if stressed, and next goes into the sintering furnace for lubricant and bonding wax burnout and heating to near melt point to fuse the metal particles together.

The reason that post-64 Win 94 receivers are so hard to refinish is because the powdered metal is not fully dense, there's a lot of spaces between adjacent powder particles and this makes the receiver kinda like a sponge. Plating bath chemicals are absorbed into the receiver, then leach out and ruin the finish, saying that the finish takes at all. Typically what's done is the porosity is sealed by use of a self-curing or thermally-cured methacrylate resin that's vacumm-impregnated into the porous powder metal part. This seals the porosity and allows for subsequent finishing of the receiver with wet processes that don't get absorbed into the receiver.

That's the "why", but it's often cost prohibitive to get them refinsihed as the OP has found out. Personally, I'd go for the browning as 20cows did with his.

Noah

[jlchucker]

Judging by the engraving shown in the photo, this looks like what Winchester used to call the "antique" model--which had a color-case finish when new. Is the loading gate on the other side brass-colored? They were doing that with the antique model as well. If that receiver was color hardened to begin with, it may pose additional problems to applying a finish. I read an article on color case hardening in the Shooting Sportsman magazine not long ago--that pub is put together beautifully, but is aimed at those who buy shotguns that cost more than the typical house--high quality pieces that I'd never be able to afford. The gunsmiths and engravers that work on these guns said in the article that color-case hardening doesn't retain its color with use very well, and after a while, things go gray like the receiver in your picture. At least your finish appears uniform. Maybe it would look good if you left it alone?? Just a thought.

[ArcticGoose]

Thanks all, I truly appreiciate the responses.

Noah- I had never heard of "Gerfidic metals" either, just pulled it off their web site. It just seems like if Winchester could get color on them then somebody else could too. Just have to figure who that somebody is. Could be expensive like you said much like the case colors, probably more money then I'm willing to spend.

20cows- I also like that finish or your puzzle. It almost looks like it had been case colored at one time and had just worn to it's current condition. That may be a possibility.

jlchucker- Re-finishing this gun is just something I'm thinking about. Everything else on the gun looks like it was new and it would be cool if I could make the receiver match. Only the receiver has the rust spots and a couple large area's where someone tried to sand or steel wool it off leaving bare spots.

It could be that there are no cost effective ways to get the receiver blue again but you never know who might have figured it out. It's always worth checking.

[mescalero1]

This is only heresay, and there may be no truth to it, I just do not know.
I was once told that the sintered metal ones were flash plated and the color we see is blueing on top of that plating.
That may or may not be reality.

[salvo]

ArcticGoose, I have a 1965 Model 94 that I bought pretty cheap because the receiver was lightly rusted on the outside finish. I sanded out the rust and re-blued it with the Birchwood Casey paste blue. It is not as nice as I would like but it sure looks much better than it did. My dad has barrowed it for a truck gun.

BEFORE



DURRING



AFTER




I have also had good results on a 1980 Model 94 in about the same shape, that I converted to a trapper, but went for a faded antique look.

[mescalero1]

Enlighten us some more, I like both of them.

[salvo]

The actual name of the cold blue is Birchwood Casey Perma Blue, Paste Gun Blue.
The 1965 has quite a few coats following the directions on the cold blue tube, The 1980 model 94 only has two coats and 0000 steel wool between coats to get the warn look.

[mescalero1]

Thank you

[20cows]

The 94 in my picture is Puzzle Four and was pieced together from parts gathered separately, so there is no brass plated spring cover. I have seen other examples of 94s with this egraved receiver that were factory blued. I've never come across a case hardened one, but that's probably due to limited experience.

This is what it looked like when I got it. Whatever finish it started with was worn off long ago.

[salvo]

20cows, I think the browned finish looks great, it looks just like an old petina worn finish. Going to have to try it next. Just need a new project

[Mutt]

Once long ago I blued a single shot .22 bolt action . Turned out very good. All hand work and Hoppies cold blue .But thei
rifle was a nice brown color. Still not sure how that happened .I s some blueing more of a browning ? That's the only Blue job I had ever done. I liked it though. Maybe some one would let me know of any brands of browning I might search out. Thanks.................Mutt

[kimwcook]

My brother and I were given our own antique models for Christmas when I was about 12 years old. The receiver was indeed kind of case colored. I'm not sure if it was a chemical process or actually case hardened. It didn't look quite like true case hardening to me.

[Rube Burrows]

I just browned the last project post-64.



It gave me what I was looking for. You could probably get a darker finish by repeating the process if you desired.

What did you use to brown it like that? I think it looks pretty darn good.

[Huntermb]

20cows that looks really really good

[jlchucker]

The 94 in my picture is Puzzle Four and was pieced together from parts gathered separately, so there is no brass plated spring cover. I have seen other examples of 94s with this egraved receiver that were factory blued. I've never come across a case hardened one, but that's probably due to limited experience.

This is what it looked like when I got it. Whatever finish it started with was worn off long ago.

They were making the "Antique" model at Winchester after 1965, and I saw them in production in 1969 and 1970 when I worked there. I never bought one because I was turned off by the brass loading gate and saddlering at the time. It was a standard option. You did a great job, and from what you say, you've now got something that looks better and works better than what they were producing at the time. You didn't say so, but I'll bet you've got a blued loading gate, and a cast-steel cartridge lifter that came after the cheap, failure-prone stamping found on original models. From your photos, you've created a 94 to be proud of. That 94 that Salvo restored is also a thing of beauty, IMO, regardless of the metallurgy of the receiver. You guys both did very fine jobs.

[kaferhaus]

Oxynate 84 works well on those receivers. Before I quit bluing I'd done dozens of them.