BEST ACTION: WINCHESTER 94 or MARLIN 336?

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:18 pm

Just for fun...

Which rifle's action has the best combination of SMOOTHNESS and RELIABILITY, WINCHESTER 94 or MARLIN 336?

bogie

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:22 pm

336 HANDS DOWN!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:29 pm

Smooth (and my favorite) is Marlin

The one I don't care for all that much, the 94, is probably jam free and more reliable.

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:41 pm

The 336 Marlin , it is easier take down for cleaning , scope mounts easier if needed and more rugged . The Win 94 , the action will slick up better and I like the looks better .. I guess I didnt answer your question .

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:12 pm

"Best" means different things to different people. In the narrow context of your defintion, I choose the Winchester, and for many more reason's I choose the Winchester. I've had far more problems with Marlins functioning, and the action feels and sounds like it's full of sludge or mud to me compared to a good early 94.

Just my .02 after fooling with both for 30 some years.

Guess I may be a bit twisted, I'd rather have a scoped bolt gun than a scoped Marlin.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:16 pm

Winchester 94, all versions, but more so the pre-64s.

Joe

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:44 pm

Pre 64s 94s for me. I do not like the look or the feel of the 336. I do like the old marlins.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:56 pm

I rate them equal.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:10 pm

BOTH! Actually, for smoothness, I'd vote Winchester 1895...

GEOFF · Post by **GEOFF** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:17 pm

Only basing my view on a couple of each, the Marlin 336 is the smoothest and nicest but you've got to remember it has the advantage of 50 years of refining over the Winchester 1894 action. Even a mechanically challenged gunner like me can take a 336 apart, put in a new extractor, ejector, or firing pin. I needed to install a new firing pin in a pre 64 Winnie 94 carbine once and had to have an expert do it for me. He showed me all the parts in a bag after he took it apart, I think to hold me hostage, BEGGING him to put it all back together for me!!!! My 1948 vintage 336 in .30-30, you seriously can't even feel it chamber a round, you'd think you were closing on an empty chamber.

My humble opinion,

Geoff

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:19 pm

The 336 is far superior. It's just as strong, and doesn't have the guts hanging out the bottom when you open the lever. A heck of a lot simpler, with way less moving parts, and anyone with a little skill can take it apart and reassemble almost blindfolded.-Vall

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:44 pm

GEOFF wrote:Only basing my view on a couple of each, the Marlin 336 is the smoothest and nicest but you've got to remember it has the advantage of 50 years of refining over the Winchester 1894 action. Even a mechanically challenged gunner like me can take a 336 apart, put in a new extractor, ejector, or firing pin. I needed to install a new firing pin in a pre 64 Winnie 94 carbine once and had to have an expert do it for me. He showed me all the parts in a bag after he took it apart, I think to hold me hostage, BEGGING him to put it all back together for me!!!! My 1948 vintage 336 in .30-30, you seriously can't even feel it chamber a round, you'd think you were closing on an empty chamber.

My humble opinion,

Geoff

Must ... take ... exception ... to .... that .... comment.

At the very best the Marlin action might be a couple years older than the Winchester 94. The post 64 Win 94 is a pathetic attempt to cheapen the cost of making the rifle, but Marlin doesn't have any claims to refining. They are still using the same action they started with waaaaaaaay back then.

The Model 1894 / 94 Winchester is one of the simplest actions to take apart and put back together. If you allowed a gunsmith to bamboozle you with the parts in a baggie don't blame the 94s design. Blame yourself. I had the same exact experience when I was 15. Darn gunsmith kept my carbine for months always promising to get to it. It needed a new firing pin and carrier spring. I finally got p.o.'d at him and went and got it. At 15 I taught myself how to take it apart and replace the broken parts. If I could do that 41 years ago, you could.

JMNSHO

Joe

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:45 pm

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:53 pm

This is just another episode of the:

Chevy / Ford
Colt / S&W
9mm / 45 ACP
Revolvers / Autos
Light-fast / heavy-slow
Blond / Brunette / Redhead

arguments.

In reality NEITHER ACTION is better. They both do exactly as they are designed to do. Different generations of both have been good, great, fine, so-so, crappy, lousy.

All it comes down to is which one you like better. That's it.

Some people I know personally simply cannot drive a Chevy without it breaking on them. But they can drive a Ford and it works perfectly. State of mind. Personal prejudice. What daddy, grand dad, great grand dad used, I'll use.

Bla Bla Bla .......

WINCHESTER RULES, ALL OTHERS JAM.

Bwahahahahahahahaha

Joe

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:59 pm

I like BOTH!! But I own more Marlins than Winchesters. If I had the money that may be the other way around though.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:13 pm

I like the pre 64 model 94 best, just enjoy the action, how it feels, operates and caries, but I must admit I like the 336 much more now than I did, the older ones are so smooth and it's pretty easy to make a new one smooth too.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:52 pm

Not even much competition IMO.
Get an old smoothed up Marlin & all you really feel happen is it snapping shut.

Joe,

I know you love them Winchesters, nothing wrong with that. But you cant honestly think its easier to break down any Browning design than a Marlin levergun. Heck, thers only 5 parts inside the reciever & thats counting the ejector.

I always have believed that Winchesters biggest claim to fame was his marketing ability. John Marlin wanted to build the best guns. Oliver Winchester wanted to sell the most guns. They both achieved their objectives.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:01 pm

J Miller wrote:Chevy / Ford

Make mine Mopar and make my funk the P-Funk!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:08 pm

Bogie35 wrote:Just for fun...
Which rifle's action has the best combination of SMOOTHNESS and RELIABILITY, WINCHESTER 94 or MARLIN 336?
bogie

Might as well have thrown a hand grenade into the room. But, in an attempt to be totally impartial, I'll explain why I answer your question in the following manner. When you ask about smoothness, I have to reply Marlin 336; when you ask about reliability I have to say Winchester 94.

Reasons: In very simplistic terms, ignoring movements that don't impact on the lever movement. The Marlin has few moving parts and only takes one screw to remove the lever and bolt. Those two features make it inherently smoother and also lessen it reliability. However, it is only partially less reliable than the 94. (Dreaded Marlin Jam): Cause: the lifter in a Marlin rises on the very beginning of the rearward stroke of the lever, therefore its' timing is critical for smooth transfer of the cartridge from the lifter to the face of the bolt and movement into the chamber; whereas the Winchester's lifter rises at the end of the forward portion of the lever's stroke. Even if the Winchester's timing is a little late, the cartridge will still be able to complete its transverse from the lifter to the face of the bolt and entry into the chamber.

The Winchester has four moving parts that are attached to each other, in comparison to the Marlin's zero. Both have a rearward moving hammer which engagements slots in the lower portion to engage the trigger, holding it in position against spring tension, but neither is attached via linkage or other means to the lever. The bolt in both cause the hammer to move rearward, both have a locking lug that moves, but the Marlin's locking lug is not attached to another moving part leans out of position when the lever (holding it in position in the bottom of the bolt) is moved downward, this eliminates a mechanical linkage and its attendent feel in the action. Whereas the Winchester has it's locking lug attached with the lower link which is the 2nd additional moving part the Winchester attached to the lever. The Marlin's bolt is not physically attached to the lever, but is moved by it via a slot and tongue arrangement. The Winchester's is firmly attached by a pin, as is the lever to the link. The locking lug is fitted into a slot in the rear of the link, thereby creating a square, that must move in unison within the confines (yea, yea, partially out) of the receiver. These parts move in opposing and conflicting causing the "clunkiness" of the action in the Winchester; so you either like it or you don't.

Now, in opposition to what others have said, I'll say that Marlin's basic design was put forth in the Model 1881, whereas Winchester's was totally new in 1894, 13 years after Marlin. Yes, the Marlin has had several updates and improvements in its design, most notably, the change from a square bolt and open rear frame to a round bolt and enclosed frame with a ejection port. This was mainly done to improve strength in the rear of the receiver around the locking lug (a circle is stronger than a "C"). The Winchester's design is largely unchanged during its 113 year production, (I don't consider changing from flat to coil springs or changing pins to screws, etc. design changes... minor in nature, even if you do.)

Given proper care I believe both are equally reliable. However, I believe the Winchester will stand up to a more abuse than the Marlin, but is possibly more susceptible to lack of maintenance due to the additional linkages in its' action.

The ONLY two reasons I like the Winchester better are the flat bottom of the receiver (ease of carrying for extended periods) and the full coverage of the locking lug across the rear of the bolt.

YOU takes your choice and takes yer chances.

P.S.: Leverdude, go to http://e-gunparts.com/schemzoom.asp?schem=082Zz336C and recount those parts inside the receiver again... I count more'n 5!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:17 pm

Well, we seem to have two camps on this thread. I don't think we are going to come to a solid conclusion one way or the other.

But here's my take on it. I have owned several Marlins, over the years, and I have owned several Winchesters. In my opinion, a pre-64 Winchester model 94 is still the king, and I like seeing that locking bolt come up in the back, visible to the eye, when the action is closed. I was shooting my latest pre-64 Winchester this afternoon. It's a 1942 model, and the action is butter smooth.

The post 64's I don't like quite as well, but they generally work pretty good.

IMHO a pre-64 Win kicks less then a Marlin 336, or at least I preceive it to be so. I shot over a box of shells tonight, just messing around, and I remember thinking to myself, wow! this gun doesn't kick hardly at all, I never notice it.

However, I do have a little post 64 Win trapper, 44mag, angle eject, kicks like a mule with full loads, where as a Marlin 1894 in 44mag didn't kick much, but the Marlin had a nasty habit of jamming on occasion. I sold it, and I still have the Winchester.

I do believe that a Winchester, is more reliable, in the long run, then the Marlin.
We have all heard of the Marlin Jam, and many of us have experienced it first hand, however this is more common in the Marlin pistol caliber models, espacally in 44mag. Sorry, I guess I got off on a tangent, we weren't even talking about Marlin 1894's just 336's.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:22 pm

Three camps - I like both and the later Winchesters better, 85 to 2005 in good examples.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:32 pm

i'm comparing an old marlin 39, a winchester src made in 1915 and 2 winchester bigbores, a .356 and .444. the marlin and old src have better trigger pulls. other than that, the two bigbores are far superior. i guess it may differ from gun to gun, but this is what i found, anyway.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:45 pm

Not trying to throw gas on the flames. The dreaded Marlin JAM is something I have heard of for years. Although I own 3 different Marlins (1894, 336, 30A) I have never had ONE JAM! Every time I jack the lever a bullet goes in, when I pulled the trigger the guns go boom (every time), when I jack the lever again the shell ejects. That has been my experiance for almost 30 yrs now. I do not own a Winchester but have shot a few, I still prefer the smoothness and reliability of my Marlins.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:55 pm

J Miller wrote:This is just another episode of the:
Chevy / Ford
Colt / S&W
9mm / 45 ACP
Revolvers / Autos
Light-fast / heavy-slow
Blond / Brunette / Redhead
arguments.

Yes, but what the heck would we DO without all these cool controversies to 'settle?'

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:20 pm

I have a Winchester Model 64 made in'53 30-30.the action sounds like a Remington 870 wingmaster. I also have a Win '94 made in 1896-38-55. it is like a Wingmaster full of Butter. I think that the "Master" made them to ware "IN" and not out. I love the Marlin's too,but then the Savage 99's...........................................................................................

hammerman · Post by **hammerman** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:35 pm

John Browning is the MAN! I'll pick a winchester 94 anyday. I've never shot a marlin 336, but I did shoot the marlin 39 22lr and it jammed on me. I never could make myself like the way the marlins look.

I've never had a winchester jam on me yet.

GEOFF · Post by **GEOFF** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:49 pm

Once in a while, at the end of a silhouette match we will separate into 2 teams, Winchester boys on one side, Marlin boys on the other. We set up the Turkeys, the Winchester team shoots at one bank of 5 and the Marlin team shoots at the other. On command its a race to see who knocks all their targets down.

Needless to say, there are a LOT of comments (INSULTS) hurled back and forth and a decent amount of pride in who wins. It's a lot of fun. I think it's about a draw as far as wins go but we don't keep track. I even shoot a Winchester in pistol cartridge so I even make that hallowed team, once in a while!

I can't remember where we got this idea from, it might've even been here at Levergunners.

Geoff

TCB in TN · Post by **TCB in TN** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:11 am

Grew up shooting a Marlin 39a mountie and a Winny 94/22. ALWAYS picked the Marlin if I had a choice. When it comes to the 94 vs the 336 I like the 336in everything except the stock. Like the straight stock on the Winny better, but in my experience and in my opinion the marlin is the better of the two. I happen to believe the 336 is the be value in a center fire rifle that there is. Easy to scope, accurate to shoot, smooth action, nice to look at just wish we could get a cheap floor plate to switch over the pistol grip to a straight!

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:11 am

I shoot these 2 gun in SASS/CAS matches I can't get the Marlin to slick up as good as the Rossi , But the Marlin breaks down 5 times easier for cleaning . The Rossi I feel more comfortable shooting it .

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:58 am

I need to find Don Tomas' smiley about stirring up a hornet's nest!

I'm in the pre-64 ledger as well. But really, this is one of those "which ice cream flavor is best" questions. I like a bunch of them, and "best" changes depending on what I have a hankering for that day.

Still, leverguns are the "ice cream" of the gun world!!!

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:32 am

tn gun runner wrote:I shoot these 2 gun in SASS/CAS matches I can't get the Marlin to slick up as good as the Rossi , But the Marlin breaks down 5 times easier for cleaning . The Rossi I feel more comfortable shooting it .

Nice Rossi!

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:05 am

I think the mechanics of the Marlin seem far superior. I often have the Winnie fail to lift or toss the cartridge right out before going into the chamber. I only have new 94's though.

The tight tolerances can work against you at times. I have had particles of brush jam up the Marlin action.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:35 am

I hate Marlins, but they're a hell of a lot smoother, hands down.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:04 pm

I have both the Marlin and Winchester rifles and don't have a preference as to function but I do think the slimmer Winchester furniture contributes to better handling for the Winchesters over the Marlins especially, the newer Marlins.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:18 pm

The Marlin's forearm would feel better if it were made out of a 2X4 routered by a kid in a shopclass.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:23 pm

I like that fat forend on my 45-70 as in Modoc's sig picture. Seems to go right with it. I thought I wanted a 45-70 Cowboy until a buddy bought one and I shot that - I like mine better.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:47 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
J Miller wrote:This is just another episode of the:
Chevy / Ford
Colt / S&W
9mm / 45 ACP
Revolvers / Autos
Light-fast / heavy-slow
Blond / Brunette / Redhead
arguments.
Yes, but what the heck would we DO without all these cool controversies to 'settle?'

Go shooting ...............................

J

e

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:32 pm

If pressed, I'd have to give my Marlins the nudge.

If for no other reason, they take a scope far better than the Win's. And when you hunt deer in pressed areas, you are about 100% likely to be shooting right near the legal start and finish time... and irons just dissapear for me.

I really like irons - traditional and xs, etc. - and can shoot them very well when I've got available light...

Also, as a home tinkerer, I like the ease of rechambering the Marlins - don't have to remove the barrel...

And my Marlins all feed just fine as long as the ammo is in spec.

Nite Ryder · Post by **Nite Ryder** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:08 pm

Ha, I can see this is a good argument. I have several different rifles made by both manufactures. I used to hate Marlins and would have chosen a Winchester everytime. But after Cowboy Action Shooting for over three years, you can chase me all over the parking lot with a Winchester. I have a '94 Winchester in 44 mag our top cowboy gunsmith could never get slicked up. I have a 336 Marlin in 45-70 that is smooth as silk. Three different 1894C Marlins that are very smooth and very reliable. For CAS I shoot a Win '66 or '73 clone. The toggle action lever guns are made so they hardly ever jam, and can be fitted with a short stroke kit. I've only seen one Marlin that didn't function as it should, and hasn't since it was new. It is as slick as can be, but just plain won't feed cartridges with short pointed flat nose bullets. I plan on dissassembling it next week and compairing it's carrier to the carrier in one of my own guns that do work. I suspect a wrong carrier was put in at the factory. One problem with Marlin's, (and to me it's a major problem) the manufacturer won't sell you parts unless you have an FFL. Speaking of the Marlin jam, that doesn't happen often (or at least has never happened to any of my guns), but it is easy to spot what causes it and when it's going to happen. If you know Marlin's and what each parts job is, there isn't much that can go wrong with them that you can't fix yourself.

NR

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:26 pm

Nite Ryder wrote: Speaking of the Marlin jam, that doesn't happen often (or at least has never happened to any of my guns), but it is easy to spot what causes it and when it's going to happen. If you know Marlin's and what each parts job is, there isn't much that can go wrong with them that you can't fix yourself.

NR

And if you're a certified Harley mechanic with a parts truck following you around, you can drive it almost all the time you're not fixing it!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:19 pm

I took some of my guns out of my safe today, to make sure they weren't rusting, etc. I compared a nice Marlin 336 straight grip from the 70's to a couple of pre-64 Winchesters and a couple of post 64 commerative Winchesters I had.

All are great guns, and and all are pretty smooth, however I guess I must admit the Marlin was probably smoother, but I still prefered the action of the Winchesters, and I prefer the handling qualities of the Winchesters to the Marlin. I have owned a lot of Marlins over the years but at this point I only own this Marlin and a 39M, but I own far more Brownings and Winchesters, now days.

If I was scoping a traditional leveraction, then I would be more interested in the Marlins, but for scoped rifles I prefer BLR's, so the Marlins don't have that much of a nich in my collection, as I would rather carry an iron sighted Winchester.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:39 pm

To me, the BLR just barely qualifies as a levergun. You flat can't beat a Winchester for feel or handling!

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:29 am

I like em both...but prefer pre 64 winchesters
But the 92 86 and 71 are IMHO have a much better action!

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:05 am

But Travis - the BLR has all those neat wheels and gears in there - whatever do you mean?

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:09 pm

It shoots pretty good for a top heavy boat anchor with crappy balance.

William · Post by **William** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:38 pm

However, it is only partially less reliable than the 94. (Dreaded Marlin Jam): Cause: the lifter in a Marlin rises on the very beginning of the rearward stroke of the lever, therefore its' timing is critical for smooth transfer of the cartridge from the lifter to the face of the bolt and movement into the chamber;
[quote="Griff"][quote="Bogie35"]Just for fun...
Which rifle's action has the best combination of SMOOTHNESS and RELIABILITY, WINCHESTER 94 or MARLIN 336?

The round bolt 336 action is different from the square bolt 1894 and does not develop the "Marlin Jam".

William · Post by **William** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:51 pm

The "Marlin Jam" only occurs after hundreds if not thousands of rounds, something CAS shooters only need worry about, plus it's a very simple fix especially if you simply smooth over the sharp snail shaped cam on the lever, and only on the 1894 model as well. The 336 action with it's round bolt does not develop the jam.

Having owned both, I prefer the 336 action. It's simple and reliable, and you can slick up the action even more by adding a one piece ejector as well as a "magic spring" in place of the factory hammer spring.

The only time I ever experienced the "Marlin Jam" was on a very used pawn shop 1894 .44 mag. It obvioulsy had many thousands of rounds through it and the previous owner had covered the factory finish with a thick coat of finish, and it looked it age and then some. I had to replace the carrier, most of the internal springs and evern the lever, but it was in such bad shape that I got it for a song. The new lever got the cam polished and I installed the 1 piece ejector and Magic spring. It also need a new magazine spring, so I added a steel mag follower to replace the beat up plastic one. It has run like a top ever since, and never jammed.

I just do not care for the Winchesters action and it isn't nearly as slick or has the positive feel of the 336.

Your mileage may vary.

horsesoldier03 wrote:Not trying to throw gas on the flames. The dreaded Marlin JAM is something I have heard of for years. Although I own 3 different Marlins (1894, 336, 30A) I have never had ONE JAM! Every time I jack the lever a bullet goes in, when I pulled the trigger the guns go boom (every time), when I jack the lever again the shell ejects. That has been my experiance for almost 30 yrs now. I do not own a Winchester but have shot a few, I still prefer the smoothness and reliability of my Marlins.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:58 pm

William wrote:The "Marlin Jam" only occurs after hundreds if not thousands of rounds, something CAS shooters only need worry about,

Meadow muffins! What are you, a part timer? Most people that are SERIOUS about shooting will do a thousand rounds a year, easy!

William · Post by **William** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:37 pm

Best action: Winchester 94 or Marlin 336?
The "Marlin Jam" does not occur in the 336 action. I prefer the 336 over the Winchester. I put between 1600 and 2000 rounds through my Marlin 1894 each year and have done so with the same rifle for the last 10 years without ever having a round jam.

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:20 am

Travis Morgan wrote:And if you're a certified Harley mechanic with a parts truck following you around, you can drive it almost all the time you're not fixing it!

Since you brought it up, the more I learn about Harleys, the more I miss my old Triumph Bonneville! I drive Jeeps, I prefer (real) blondes, and I like Marlins more than Chesterwinsters.