OT Who made the 2nd Generation Colts

[Barcelona Rick]

I was wondering who made the run of second generation Colt cap n ball revolvers ?? Was it Colt or someone with Colt tooling or ?? I have never seen one but have someone that is looking at a Navy.....supposedly made late 1970's or early 80's. Also I remember reading that US Firearms was gonna make a Remington 1890 but have not seen it listed. Is their 1873 SAA prewar really that much nicer than my 3 rd generation Colt from about 1980 ??

Thank ya,

jumbeaux

[jd45]

I understand that they contracted with Aldo Uberti, (who else?), to make the parts, which were then sent to Colt to be fitted together. If someone knows different, please weigh in. jd45

[C. Cash]

I understand that they contracted with Aldo Uberti, (who else?), to make the parts, which were then sent to Colt to be fitted together. If someone knows different, please weigh in. jd45

Yep that seems to be the case...Italian parts imported to Colt in USA, where they were assembled and finished.

[J Miller]

Recently somebody posted a web site that listed the various Italian proof marks and date codes. In the text somewhere they mentioned that every Italian gun is proof marked, except those such as the Colt black powder guns that were shipped as unfinished parts. I bookmarked that site, but I have no idea where.

Joe

[Griff]

I understand that they contracted with Aldo Uberti, (who else?), to make the parts, which were then sent to Colt to be fitted together. If someone knows different, please weigh in. jd45

My understanding is that parts were from a variety of makers, but the majority were Uberti... although I have an ASM that is reputed made from left over Colt contract parts and assembled and finished by Armi San Marco in the '80s.

...Second Generation colt BP were made in two series. The C series which was made from 1971 through 1978, and the F series which was made from 1978 through 1982. While some of the models in each series were only made in certain years, the 1851s were made throughout the period. C series guns were all made in Hartford under the Blue Dome using Colt personnel, materials, methods, finishing, inspecting and marketing. The F series guns were made in New Jersey at Iver Johnson using Colt processes, final inspection and marketing. The C series guns all use the Colt Royal Blue, while the F series guns use the darker Colt Blue.

C series 51 Navy serial numbers range from 4201 through around 24899. F series Navies run from 24900 through 29150. C series came in three different boxes. SN4201 through 5199 came in the Colt SAA Black Clamshell box. 5200 through about 13499 came in the two tone brown clamshell box, and 13500 through around 24899 came in the wood grained box with Styrofoam insert. F series all came in the Colt Blackpowder black box with gold label.

There are some differences between the C series and F series guns. The grips and frame on the C series are slightly smaller (about 1/8 inch) than the F series. The C series grips are true to the original Navies.

And then there is the Signature Series, again made of parts produced overseas and assembled in NY under License from Colt by a new company headed by Tony Imperato (of Henry Repeating Rifles).

ASM copy of the Colt 2nd Series:


Colt "C" series:


Colt Signature series, a "C" series behind it:


Hope that clears some of it up.

[Old No7]

See below for a link which has more details about the Colt 2nd and 3rd Generation models. But before you leave this campfire and go there, here's a pix of my 3rd Generation "Signature Series" 1861 Navy...

Yeah OK, so she's not a 1st or 2nd Generation Colt -- and some may say she's not a "real Colt" at all -- but she's still a fine looker and shooter to me!

(And was bought at a much nicer price too!)

Colt 1861 Navy - 3rd Gen 03 (Small).jpg

Here's a link to some more history (and opinions) on these...
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusio ... 937/all/1/

Tight groups.

Old No7

[Malamute]

I have seen similar information regarding this. It says basically the same thing as has been written here, but with slightly more detail, such as, the guns or parts "made" by Uberti, and Iver Johnson, were rough forgings, that were machined and final finished at the Colt plant. This makes some sense, from what I've seen of Colts compared to Italian guns. The Colts have had better fit and finsh, and much better color case hardening. The Colts also have American threads from what I understand tho I havent checked it first hand.

I've seen an ASM gun that was purported to be a Colt gun, but with ASM markings, but the quality of fit and finish was nowhere near what a genuine Colt made/finished gun was.

[Griff]

...Here's a link to some more history (and opinions) on these...
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusio ... 937/all/1/...Old No7

Is membership required to view topics there? It keeps telling me:

There was a problem loading this page:
Your permission set does not allow you to be here.

[20cows]

I do remember looking at one of these 2nd gen "Colt's" back about 1980 or so and noticing it was poorly timed. I was quite surprised.

[coyote nose]

Guns and ammo had an article titled "cap and Ball resurrection" awhile back. I saved it but dont have the date on it. Val Forgett of Navy arms sold Colt rough castings so Colt could make the 2nd gens at hartford from 1971-1973. These are the "C" series 2nd gens. In 1973 Lou Imperato took over as the supplier of the rough castings. Imperato also purchased Iver Johnson arms in 1973 and talked Colt into allowing him to make the guns in Middlesex NJ. These are the "F" series made under Colt contract. These F series were also all handfitted like the originals and the C series, with the castings made in Italy but shipped here. After being machined, fitted, finished in Iver johnsons plant, they were shipped to Colt in hartford for final inspection by Colts inspectors. All these should have english threads. Final manufacturing was 1984.
In 1993 Imperato organized Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. under a licensing agreement with Colt. These are the 3rd gens. and were made strictly by imperatto, including final inspecting. Often bashed by people now, i own several and they are absolute gems. My 1998 bought 1851 navy is one of my most used guns, and is probably the gun i would "grab" to save if my house was on fire. well....maybe

So to answer your question, 2nd gen "C" series had frames cast in Italy and machined at Colt and the other parts were made at Colts Hartford plant. 2nd gens "F" series had frames cast in Italy, had other parts made here in the US at Iver johnson, were fitted and finished in the Us at iver johnson, were shipped to Colt and inspected, and were shipped out from Colt to the distributers.

[C. Cash]

Great information fellas....many thanks!

[KCSO]

In 1985 my best friend had to have a COLT 1849 pocket. He wouldn't settle for a Uberti. He oredered in the COLT and the darn gun wouldn't go off. The frame was not relieved enough to let the hammer hit the caps, the high spots in the casting were never smoothed. We took the gun apart in my shop and fixed it and when I put it back in the box an invoice came out from behind the foam. FOR COLT, Uberti parts assembled at Iver Johnson. He paid $400 for his gun and my Uberti that worked out of the box was like $190. He still gets red if anyone asks about the COLT.

[Barcelona Rick]

Many thanks for the info.....anybody know/have ideas about the (US Firearms) Remington 1890 and comparision of the current pre-war SAA and my 3rd gen Colt ?? Many thanks again...

jumbeaux

[Griff]

I have the 1976 catalog and retail price list for Colt... the 1851 2nd Gen lists for $200! Wished I'd bought mine then!