45 Colt loading question

[HEAD0001]

I just purchaed a Browning Low Wall in 45 Colt. And this is the first 45 Colt that I have reloaded for. I have loaded a few shells with 2400 and a large pistol primer. I have found thast this load of 18 grains of 2400 is leaving a lot of "dirt" in the barrel. I have not noticed 2400 to be dirty in my 44 magnums, that is not nearly as dirty as it is in my 45 Colt. However I do use magnum primers in my 44 magnums. However everthing I have read about the 45 Colt says to stay away from the magnum primers. And I have a bunch of large pistol primers, and few large pistol magnum primers.

I am thinking about using another powder. So I am asking for powder recommendations. However I would like to limit the recommendations to powders that give 70% or better case fill. So this would be charges of approximately 14 or more grains with the 255 grain Keith that I am casting. And I would like the powder to be a clean burning powder.

I thought about Unique, however I am just a little hesitant about the lack of case fill with unique??

I am not really looking for a heavy "magnum" load. I am just looking for a comfortable hunting load for distances out to 150 or 200 yards. Thanks, Tom.

[Don McDowell]

25 grs 4198

[Griff]

If ya want a load with a full case in the .45Colt... use BP. 3F for velocity, 2F for boom and smoke! Be conscientious with your loading and go to something like RedDot or Unique. 700X is another good .45 Colt powder. I used to have a recommendation from Accurate Powders for their 5744 in the .45Colt, but don't have the email any longer. I know that if you email any of the powder companies they'll send you a recommendation for various powders... your specific powder if you have one in mind.

[adirondakjack]

With "magnum" loads, I use magnum primers. That would include any load with a 2400 class powder in .45 Colt. I like 4227 for something a little less than totally "to the wall" loads, yet close. For the bigest wallop, H110 is preferred.

That said, a mag primer and yer 2400 load wouldn't be BAD, even though YES, it's not a totally disappearing type powder. If ya shoot yer .44 mag revolver over snow with 2400, you'll see where the stuff ends up. In a rifle much more of it ends up in the bore than on the ground, that's the only difference.

Another "snappy" powder that is cleaner than either 2400 or Unique is Power Pistol (uses regular primers). It'll provide 85 or 90% of the velocity of the slower stuff, meters superbly, and is in it's element at oh, 1200-1400 fps with that bullet outta the rifle. Again, not a monster, but snappy enough and fully capable of fine accuracy.

[SmokeEater2]

25 grs 4198

+1 I've been very happy with this powder in .45 Colt and lead boolit .41 magnum loads. Good stuff!

[HEAD0001]

When you guys say 4198. I assume you are talking about IMR4198?? And does it burn clean?? With a large pistol primer??

How dirty is H110 in a rifle with large pistol primers?? Tom.

[Don McDowell]

Yup, yep, yes
Not bad

[Pisgah]

There are plenty of good loads out there, and you've already been given some good ideas. I'll add this note about 2400, though. It has been my experience that if I don't use one heckuva crimp, I always get unburned powder in the bore, whether the primer is non-magnum or magnum. The crimp I use would definitely be considered too much for any other round I load, but it works fine with the 2400.

[kimwcook]

I've shot hundreds of rounds of 45 Colt with Unique in both rifle and Colt SAA's and I've never had a problem. I use 7.8 grs. with a 250-255 gr. RNLFP because it shoots to POA in my Colt SAA's and groups well in my Marlin.

[JReed]

IMHO 2400 works best with a beastly heavy crimp and heavier bullets. It will always leave some powder in the bore but this helps. Unique is great for non magnum loads that will still get the job done out to 100 yards or so. If you want a cheap plinker load get your self some Tite Group a little goes goes a long way and it is really clean. Both the Unique and the Tite Group use large pistol primers you really need mag primers for the 2400.

[J Miller]

Tom,

Bump that 2400 charge up to 18.5grs, bump the bullet diameter up to .454", and as JReed said put a really heavy crimp on it. By heavy crimp I mean roll that crimp into the crimp grove all the way to the bottom.

I shoot this load from all my .45 Colt rifles, and my OM Ruger BH and it's the cleanest load I've got. 2400 doesn't like to be loaded light. It needs pressure to burn clean.

Joe

[HEAD0001]

I was hoping I did not have to put a crimp on the bullets for the Low Wall. I wanted to extend my case life as long as possible. But I may have too.

Also I have a couple of pounds of Blue Dot on the shelf. How clean will that burn in a rifle?? Tom.

[Don McDowell]

Bluedot shoots quite nice in the 45 colt,altho it won't replace unique as my favorite powder, it does shoot some "cleaner" than unique or 2400. But to be honest as much bp as I shoot I sort of get the giggles when I see people fussing about this or that smokeless powder being "dirty"

[SmokeEater2]

IMHO 2400 works best with a beastly heavy crimp and heavier bullets. It will always leave some powder in the bore but this helps. Unique is great for non magnum loads that will still get the job done out to 100 yards or so. If you want a cheap plinker load get your self some Tite Group a little goes goes a long way and it is really clean. Both the Unique and the Tite Group use large pistol primers you really need mag primers for the 2400.

JReed if You don't mind me asking,What is Your load for the Tite group? I was given a 1 pound bottle of it and I've not come up with anything else to use it in. since I go through more .45 Colt than anything else I'm interested in trying it out. (Nothing like free powder.)

[mad mucus]

Hey Tom,

I've found the thinner Winchester brass fire-formed and neck sized only to be used solely for the one rifle(mine's a Marlin), plus a .454" 250gn RNFP or BigLube PRS45-250 RNFP with heavy crimp works well for me. 10.0gn Universal or 32-35gnVol fffg over a Federal LP primer works a treat.

HTH

Mucus

[Hobie]

I use H110 in the .45 Colt rifle and use magnum primers. I'm at a loss about "clean" burning. It seems to me that the concept is so subjective as to be a meaningless discussion without comparative photos. I will say that I've never had a smokeless load with any powder in which the residue was sufficient to cause malfunctions, reduced accuracy, or higher pressures. That's how I define clean.

[J Miller]

A follow up to my previous post: I use standard Win WLP primers with my 2400 loads. I've never found the need for magnums.

I agree with Hobie's assertion of clean burning powders. However I have run into one powder that burned so incompletely that there was so much unburned powder I did have gun malfunctions. That was with A 5744. I tried a number of things and finally gave it a CCI #300 mag primer. That seemed to do it. But I'll never buy another any more.

As for cleanliness, compare the filthiest Unique load to black power and you won't care any more.

Joe

[Chuck 100 yd]

I agree with those who say clean burning smokeless is subjective etc. etc....
Joe, I have shot loads of 5744 that leave so much unburned powder I have had dents in my cases caused by powder chunks laying in the chamber. The next case fire forms over them leaving a dented case. The dents fire form back out in the next loading though so no damage really just a pain.

[Don McDowell]

I shoot quite a bit of 5744, and yup there's old maid kernels hanging about, but I have never ever had a gun malfunction due to them, or seen any of them tuff enough to dent a case. Mostly they just turn to mush when you bother them. Here again its like 2400 more pressure less left overs.
Still think if you can find a can of the now defunct Elephant brand bp, and load a few round , you'll quitcher whin about dirty smokeless.

[Travis Morgan]

With "magnum" loads, I use magnum primers. That would include any load with a 2400 class powder in .45 Colt. I like 4227 for something a little less than totally "to the wall" loads, yet close. For the bigest wallop, H110 is preferred.

H-110 is NOT suggested for cast bullet loads; it burns off the back of the bullet.

I'd just switch to Lil' gun; you get more power at lower pressure. Lemme know your results if you try magnum primers with 2400; I'd been considering the same thing.

[Travis Morgan]

When you guys say 4198. I assume you are talking about IMR4198?? And does it burn clean?? With a large pistol primer??

How dirty is H110 in a rifle with large pistol primers?? Tom.

For best results, use magnum primers with H-110.

[SmokeEater2]

Here's another favorite that burns pretty clean.

200 Gr. lead SWC
CCI LP primers
6.4 Gr. Universal

[SmokeEater2]

The load above is easy shooting but it will make a Coyote do the "stiff-legged flop".

[HEAD0001]

You guys do not understand. This rifle is so PURDY that I do not even want any dirt on the inside of the barrel!!!

I am in load development stage on this rifle. So I just could not see what it would hurt to develop a load with a cleaner powder?? I really do not think dirty barrels are subjective. I just think they are dirty barrels.

I may just give up on the 70% case fill and go with Red Dot powder. I have a bunch of it on the bench for my 12 gauge shells. So what the heck. And I really prefer not to crimp the loads. And I have far too many large pistol primers to switch to magnum pistol primers.

And for the BP guys. I am going to do some BP shooting with this rifle. But that is another story for another day.



I realize I am asking a lot of questions about this one particular cartridge. However I have been reloading for over 30 years. And I have never seen more conflicting data in a single cartridge before, until I started loading for the 45 Colt. I have seen swings of as much as 5 or 6 grains of powder as max. loads for different powders.

Now I realize that is because of the different firearms that the Colt can be shot in. However I have also found conflicting data for modern firearms. Tom.

[Don McDowell]

[quote="Travis MorganH-110 is NOT suggested for cast bullet loads; it burns off the back of the bullet.

I'd just switch to Lil' gun; you get more power at lower pressure. Lemme know your results if you try magnum primers with 2400; I'd been considering the same thing.[/quote]

Hogdons doesn't recommend Lilgun for cast either unless you're shooting gas checks, and more power for less pressure isn't prooving out since its original introduction either.

[Travis Morgan]

[quote="Travis MorganH-110 is NOT suggested for cast bullet loads; it burns off the back of the bullet.

I'd just switch to Lil' gun; you get more power at lower pressure. Lemme know your results if you try magnum primers with 2400; I'd been considering the same thing.

Hogdons doesn't recommend Lilgun for cast either unless you're shooting gas checks, and more power for less pressure isn't prooving out since its original introduction either.[/quote]

My good friend, who has tested it extensively, would beg to differ. He gets really good results with the cast, plain base bullets.

ETA: I'm not saying you're wrong, I just trust and respect his opinion, and have observed his results.

[Don McDowell]

Oh I get good results with plain based bullet with lilgun as well. I do however have a letter from Phil Hogdon that is in reply to questions I asked him about the stuff when they first introduced it, and he says its like H110, needs 90% load density, heavy bullet pull, and not recommended for cast bullets , just like H110.
The velocity I got with the stuff isn't anything to get excited about, except for in the 357, then me and my chrono both got called bold faced liars, when I posted the results I got from 100 rounds tested.
Anyway it does work well in the Colt but just hasn't ever done anything that made me think its better in that cartridge than unique or 2400
Plus in the lowall rifle in question here it may just be a real winner for both accuracy and velocity, but unless and until the loader in charge of this rifle tries it, it'll all be speculation.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

With all due respect, what is the big deal about a 'clean burning' load? I could understand it if we were talking about a finicky semi-auto, that might tend to jam if too much gunk works its way into the mechanism. But you're talking about a single shot rifle, for Pete's sake. There is no feed mechanism, all you do is open the breech and shove a round in. You don't want to get the barrel dirty inside, because it's too pretty? Give me a break. The objective should be accuracy, not how clean the load burns.

If you want to get the 45 Colt to burn clean, you have to crimp it, and the crimp has to be firm. That huge case was designed to hold 40 grains of Black Powder. With a lot of empty space inside you will not get a good burn going, and you will always have some unburnt powder. You will also get smokey brass from gas blowing by the brass in the chamber. If you want clean brass, although I cannot understand why guys think this is so important either, you must boost the pressure up so the brass obturates enough to completely seal the chamber. In the process, you will make the powder burn cleaner. Frankly, the only reason I see for clean brass is to find it in the grass, but with a single shot that is not a problem either. Don't worry about over crimping the brass and shortening its life, I have reloaded some of my 45 brass so many times that I've lost count.

Personally, I usually load 45 Colt with 2.2CC of FFg Black Powder, behind a 250 grain Big Lube bullet. Now you're talking some major soot and fouling. My favorite Smokeless powder, Unique, doesn't even come close.

[JReed]

IMHO 2400 works best with a beastly heavy crimp and heavier bullets. It will always leave some powder in the bore but this helps. Unique is great for non magnum loads that will still get the job done out to 100 yards or so. If you want a cheap plinker load get your self some Tite Group a little goes goes a long way and it is really clean. Both the Unique and the Tite Group use large pistol primers you really need mag primers for the 2400.

JReed if You don't mind me asking,What is Your load for the Tite group? I was given a 1 pound bottle of it and I've not come up with anything else to use it in. since I go through more .45 Colt than anything else I'm interested in trying it out. (Nothing like free powder.)

I sent you a PM.