1890 Indians with lever, Butte Montana

[rangerider7]

This is a very neat photo. I like the little boy looking out the door. Is that a Marlin?

[Pathfinder09]

Hard to tell what it is. I would have guessed Winchester 73 but we can't see the receiver.

Great Pic!

[C. Cash]

Outstanding Rangerider. Would love to know the history of those men. Gotta be an 1876?

[J Miller]

From the shape of the lever, the comb on the stock, the but plate, and the forearm end cap, I'd say a Marlin.

I'd like to know what tribe and where that pic was taken.

Joe

[AEA]

Shape of the lever alone confirms Marlin.
I'd guess 1893.

Attachment borrowed from user "Wind".
You can read his range report here:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=18508

[Malamute]

Great picture!

I would normally agree about the apparent lever shape, but,....it has a Winchester type magazine ring. I didn't think Marlins had them?


Other than the anomoly of the lever shape, I'd say 76 Winchester, from the size of the receiver, and length of barrel. It's just that lower outside part of the lever that doesn't look right for a 76, but all the other things point more toward Winchester than Marlin.

[cowboykell]

Malamute is right. Marlin didn't use a magazine hanger.

[AEA]

Yup, I see that now, thanks for the clarification!

[rangerider7]

This is all I know from the description:

This antique original photograph is from late 1890s. The photo itself is 9.5" x 7.5" (13.5" x 11.5" with the mat).
It's in fine condition. The photo is from the archive of a guy who owned the Anaconda mine in Butte, Montana in early 1900s.
Here is what's is written in hand on the back: "Possibly Chief Joseph (crossed out) Pendoy of Salmon River country. Taught Eugene Trask (the guy from Butte - my notation) to hale(?) hunting & fishing.". The photo shows two Indians standing ina front of the hut, both dressed in Indian garb, one holding a rifle. A little Indian boy is peeking out through the door.
A great photograph with much historic significance.

[gamekeeper]

Great photograph, thanks for sharing rangerider.

[gunslinger598]

Great photo

[bogus bill]

This is a 1892 winchester carbine in 44 WCF made in 1903. Serial # 269815. When I bought it about 30 years ago I was told it came off a reservation in the Dakotas. It was stolen along with much more from my house in Lancaster Calif about 5 or 6 years ago. It is of course hot!

[Cosmoline]

Whoever they are, they don't look beaten!

[AEA]

deleted

[Cosmoline]

It does seem to be a big rifle, because that's not a small man holding it.

[Grizz]

It seems to have the marlin square end lever, did winchester ever make 'em that way?

iirc, marlin beat winchester to market with the first repeating 45/70, could be that guy has one of them, eh?

Grizz

[Malamute]

I looked at a couple other pictures. The 1881 Marlin has a rounded lever, and one other point. I measured the length of the receiver as a ratio. Using the length of the lever as a reference, the gun in the picture is 3x the length of the lever, from the front of the lever to the top front edge of the receiver. The 1881 and 1895 (original) model Marlins have that ratio as 2.5x, a notcable difference in length. I haven't measured a winchester 76, but it's a noticably long receiver. Also, the shape of the top edge of the front of the receiver more resembles a 76 than either Marlin model. It appears to be raised in the pic, as 76's are, both Marlin models are flat at that point, with the 95 looking a little dished on the upper sides like later 95's.


I'm leaning towards a 76 with either a damaged lever, or something wrapped around it at that point, changing the looks, or just an anomoly of the image, since other indications are that it looks more like a 76 Winchester in several other regards.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Another vote for 76.

[gunslinger598]

This is all I know from the description:

This antique original photograph is from late 1890s. The photo itself is 9.5" x 7.5" (13.5" x 11.5" with the mat).
It's in fine condition. The photo is from the archive of a guy who owned the Anaconda mine in Butte, Montana in early 1900s.
Here is what's is written in hand on the back: "Possibly Chief Joseph (crossed out) Pendoy of Salmon River country. Taught Eugene Trask (the guy from Butte - my notation) to hale(?) hunting & fishing.". The photo shows two Indians standing ina front of the hut, both dressed in Indian garb, one holding a rifle. A little Indian boy is peeking out through the door.
A great photograph with much historic significance.

Is it possible to get a copy of what is written on the back?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

It's a 76. I took the picture and blew it up, cropped out all be the gun. At the back end of the lever you can barely make out the lever hook. Just over his left wrist you can see the front frame bridge where the barrel screws in. Just behind it the frame is slightly lower where the carrier block mortise starts. Marlins don't drop like that. The forend cap is definately longer than a marlin and the marlins didn't have magizine bearings/rings like this gun.

Here's an 1889 Marlin

[piller]

Great picture. They do appear to be proud, unbeaten men. Don't forget, our culture, not our fighting ability is what made the difference.

[C. Cash]

Well heck, we thought you were just good with the guns Steve. Didn't know you were a frigging computer whiz too Great detective work and perhaps one of the top three most interesting photo's we've had on leverguns. Thanks for sharing these with us Rangerider.

[20cows]

I second the request to see a copy of the writing on the back.

Neat, neat, neat!

[DixieBoy]

Rangerider - Another incredible photo. I was going to guess about the Indian holding the rifle, that he's a Crow Indian. He may be Nez Perce, but he's not Chief Joseph. My guess on him being a Crow is due to your mentioning Montana. Because they helped the U.S. Army so much during the end of the Indian Wars on the northern plains, they got a rez on the land very near the Little Big Horn battle site.

Sounds like the gang here has the scoop on the rifle, thought I'd try to help on the Indian. He's either Nez Perce or a Crow. Either way, thanks for sharing yet another great photo. - DixieBoy

[Ysabel Kid]

[rangerider7]

Sorry guys, unable to get a copy of the back.

[Charles]

"Whoever they are, they don't look beaten!"

They were defeated and not beaten. The United States goverments did everything it could to "beat" the Indian out of them. But they survive with their culture against all odds. There were and are many casualties of the goverment beatings, which is a great pity and a violation of our own principals and convictions. "All men are created equal"..Yeah right!

[bogus bill]

I suspect its hard and not right to judge the policys back then since we didnt live it. I have read tons of views from both sides through the years. Many cases can made from views on both sides of the coin. One big one to ponder was General Shermans view of starveing indians by killing off the buffalo. I will say I own a very old probley almost unknown book totaly about people that were tortured by indians and escaped. After reading that book it is similar to hearing people today talking about iraq and north korea saying to nuke em and make a parking lot out of it etc. It really wasnt much different then getting stirred up by the storys of the day, how often today will you hear disgusted people say, nuke em and make a parking lot out of the mideast, or see the shirts of wannabys that say, "kill em all, and let God sort them out?"

[BigSky56]

From the note on the back the word pendoy might mean Pend d'Oreille (tribe) one of 3 tribes under the Flathead Indian res just north of Missoula also in the Butte area were Shoshone as Butte is only 60 miles north of Dillon where the Shoshone saved Lewis&Clark. danny

[Cosmoline]

Great picture. They do appear to be proud, unbeaten men. Don't forget, our culture, not our fighting ability is what made the difference.

And our diseases, of course. The tribes that stood up best were the ones farthest from white settlements and the Euro-Asiatic diseases they had no immunity to.