.22 mag from a handgun

[Jason_W]

I did some ballistics gel tests, and two rounds poked through 15" without showing any sign of expansion. Would this limit it as a defensive round?

[jdad]

It depends on which 22mag cartridge you shot. Lots of different bullet styles available. I know of people that swear by Winchester Supremes, for critter control.

[Blaine]

No bones in gel I always thought .22 was under-rated as a defense round, but you have to take advantage of the zero recoil and pump several into the target in a second or so.

[Buck Elliott]

CCI's 30-gr. TNT round is spectacular from a rifle (9422M) but will give up a lot of velocity in a handgun. Many .22 WMR rounds actually show lower handgun velocity than some "hyper-velocity" .22 LR ammo, such as Stingers, &c...

[cshold]

Hummm! you should see what the 22mag. bullets look like
after hitting my target trap shot from my derringer.

[L_Kilkenny]

I've never cared for the .22 mag in a handgun. Would you "pick" (not to be confused with "use in case of EM") a .22LR rifle for defense? Even if someone needs low recoil, just stuff a centerfire with cowboy loads. What other critters can you "reliably" use a .22 mag handgun for that a .22LR handgun can't be used for? Sure it has more thump but I can't think of one critter that fits this. Just an improved bunny gun IMO. Comparing ammo prices, .38S/9mm ammo is almost as cheap and most centerfires, including my beloved .32M, are cheaper if you reload.

To answer the queston by the OP though, Pentration with this small bullet is a good thing IMO.

LK

[cshold]

Just a note of what it's worth.

Used for self defence in a revolver, the .22 WMR has compiled a 42% one shot stop rate according to Marshall and Sanow. This is far superior to the .22 LR and .25 ACP, and makes the .22 WMR the best of the small bore handgun cartridges.

[O.S.O.K.]

My experience with the round is with my Ruger Single Six with 4 3/4" barrel. This was for target shooting and squirrel hunting.

After shooting it in the woods with no hearing protection, I decided that regular .22LR was preferrable for squirrel hunting...

As for personal protection, I wouldn't use the .22Mag but it its a limited choice thing - something is better than nothing.

A .22LR from a carbine is a very decent choice for home protection IMHO - you can pump a lot of accurately placed rounds into a threat in short order - a good choice for people of limited abilities... not to mention that practice is very inexpensive.

[JimT]

I would never decide upon a personal protection firearm based upon caliber. Caliber has never been the deciding factor of interpersonal confrontations.

"Power" is another poor basis of choice - at least until you define what you mean by the word. What one person means by "power" is usually different from the way someone else is using it.

There is no such thing as "too much penetration". That is a concept fostered by people who have never shot living things. There is however too little penetration. More commonly is "penetration in the wrong spot". I have done that one enough times to almost qualify as an expert on the subject. Almost.

Go shoot critters that breathe air and bleed real blood. After you do it enough the ideas you develop will be based on your real-world experience and not on some esoteric theory. Remember, the person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a theory.

[Buck Elliott]

My only current .22 WMR handgun happens to be a Colt Peacemaker 'Buntline' with a 7 1/2" barrel. Also have .22 LR cylinder for this gun.

Shooting WMR ammo in this longer-barreled revolver delivers some impressive results, but still not that much better than I get with .22 LR stingers. Picket-pins & jackrabbits all get decidedly DEAD when shot with either, with a slight edge for tissue destruction going to the WMR TNT load. The heavy-bullet loads for the WMR (45 & 50 gr...) are extremely accurate in my revolver, but do not perform as well as I'd like on small game. Different story when my 9422M is involved... Again, extreme accuracy, and good clean kills on larger varmints, like coyotes & foxes.

A 'once-upon-a-time' 4 1/2" Colt Frontier Scout did not do so well with WMR ammo. It lagged behind .22 Stinger performance by a fair margin.

FWIW, I would not wish to be shot with either. The wound dynamics may be somewhat different, but the end result is pretty much the same.

[Jason_W]

I would never decide upon a personal protection firearm based upon caliber. Caliber has never been the deciding factor of interpersonal confrontations.

"Power" is another poor basis of choice - at least until you define what you mean by the word. What one person means by "power" is usually different from the way someone else is using it.

There is no such thing as "too much penetration". That is a concept fostered by people who have never shot living things. There is however too little penetration. More commonly is "penetration in the wrong spot". I have done that one enough times to almost qualify as an expert on the subject. Almost.

Go shoot critters that breathe air and bleed real blood. After you do it enough the ideas you develop will be based on your real-world experience and not on some esoteric theory. Remember, the person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a theory.

Isn't the ultimate goal when it comes to killing something with a bullet maximum tissue destruction? One would think that the ideal bullet would offer both a lot of penetration and a lot of expansion. What about a bullet that causes a relatively shallow but gaping wound in the vitals? For instance, a 9mm FMJ round will penetrate a lot deeper at an across the room distance than a 20 ga rifled slug, but the slug's wound will be substantially greater in terms of volume.

Please don't misinterpret the above as me trying to argue, I'm really just fascinated by this stuff and posing questions.

[JimT]

Jason - there are a lot of ideas about the subject ... about as many ideas as there are people. Not all of them agree. The best thing is go do it. See what actually works.

I know that most people cannot afford to hunt big game year 'round .. but there are lots of coyotes, foxes, raccoons, cats, dogs (speaking of feral animals, not people's pets) and other critters out there. If you live in a farming area sometimes you can get a farmer to obtain crop depredation permits. I know a man who has killed nearly 1000 deer this way, nearly 300 of them with revolvers from 38 special up through 454. He is an MD and autopsied most of them, recorded date, time, distance, caliber, load, effect etc. He has some definite ideas as to what works. He did it all with handguns: single-shot pistols, revolvers and semi-autos of all calibers.

The number one thing in my book is to put the bullet in the correct spot.

Remember our history. The lowly round ball did the job for a very long time and did it well, as long as the shooter was competent.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I shoot the 22 Magnum from a 6" Smith & Wesson 648. Typically, I'm using the Winchester 40 grain JHPs. I don't shoot small game with it, rather I'm driving off raccoons. Most people would probably just use a 22 LR on a raccoon but the ones in my area are just flat out huge and I've ended up wounding too many with Winchester PowerPoints from a Diamondback. I can be slightly off the mark with the 22 Mag and still get the kill. These raccoons are pretty adept at pulling over my garbage cans on garbage night and spreading my garbage all over my yard. At least they used to be. I still get the black bears doing the same but not very often.

[Blaine]

Hmmm.....seems like "we" argue that numbers on the paper don't reflect killing potential. The .22 LR is the choice of late night deer-jackers and a good head shot never fails to deliver, I'll betcha (sorry, no personal experience on that )

[Pete44ru]

]Isn't the ultimate goal when it comes to killing something with a bullet maximum tissue destruction?]

Not necessarily, Jason - The ultimate goal is to kill it dead, however it occurs/whatever the exact cause.

[the person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a theory.]

+1

Well said, Jim.
.

[tman]

wonder how the .22 mag out of a 5 1/2" barreled colt would compare to a 1860 colt converted to .44 henry rimfire flat? the latter combination was a manstopper in the civil war and up until colt went to the centerfire .45 in 1873.

[mklwhite]

Remember, the person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a theory.

I'm stealing that one.

[4t5]

In PACO'S book he relates a story of taking on a pack of feral dogs with a 22 cal. revolver, wasn't till the shoot'in stopped that he realized it was a 22 mag.It worked then ,it should work now.

[JimT]

Remember, the person with experience is never at the mercy of the person with a theory.

I'm stealing that one.

Hey I appreciate that ... but truth be known I lifted it from someone else. I believe it was the Old Man Himself .. Mr. Elmer Keith .. though I could be wrong.

[mescalero1]

When I was young, I hunted with a Ruger .22Mag Single action, with a Phantom 1.5 power scope on it.
The prey was Tough West Texas jackrabbits.
Most of the shots were on running rabbits, at 100 and over yards.
Never lost a rabbit, all were 1 shot kills,expansion was excellent.
It will do the job, I have never been without a .22 Mag handgun since, and one will be with me when I check out.

[BigSky56]

Jason 15" penetration is more than adequate, hit them or it in the right spot and it doesnt matter if its a fmj or a sp. Ive used a 22 mag to take deer and lions and not just head shots. danny

[Tycer]

Isn't the ultimate goal when it comes to killing something with a bullet maximum tissue destruction?

Not if you plan on eating it. Breakdown of central nervous system function by rapid loss of blood pressure or central nervous system destruction is the killer.

Poke a big hole through something and it bleeds out fast. Pulverize a bunch of tissue and it might just plug that teeny hole and keep pressure up long enough for escape and lingering death or keep pressure up long enough to kill you back.

Two graphic pics. One you can eat right up to the hole, the second isn't fit for ground venison.

[Nath]

If one shot is+40% then a well placed second and it's pretty much game over, yes?
What a sweet carrying gun they must be!
Carrying on what JT said, I have taken fox's with a weak air gun, deer with a hornet, rabbits with a slingshot and don't forget the bow!
Big holes don't makes thing go down quicker really but may! A hole in the correct place and deep enough is all that is required.

Nath.