The defensive levergun

KentuckyLevrgunr · Post by **KentuckyLevrgunr** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:24 pm

I just picked up a copy of Shooting Times and I saw an interesting article stating a levergun makes a good defensive weapon. The funny thing is that I just bought my first 94 carbine in 30-30 (I already had a 9422 mag and a 94 Legacy 44 mag) for that very purpose about 3 days before I saw the article. So anyhow, I plan to install a receiver sight and pretty well call it finished, but what to you consider to be the ideal defensive levergun?

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:31 pm

My Winchester Model 94 30-30 is my defensive carbine. When I go on a road trip, it comes with me. At home, it hangs on the wall of my office, quickly accessible. When we go into the wilderness, it comes with me. Of course, I also have a couple hand guns in a couple locations in the house, to help me out until I can get to my rifle.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:01 pm

Welcome to the campfire

Here in the UK we're not supposed to have defensive firearms or defensive pointy sticks for that matter! But my Rossi .357 SS carbine was reliable with both .38 spl or .357mag.
My 9422M was ok but slow to load.

My Winchester 94 30/30 is handy and smooth and if I lived in a FREE country, I would be happy to rely on it if trouble came my way!

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:06 pm

Though I have lots of options, if I had to pick a defensive levergun, this is the best suited rifle I have. 10+1 of Cowboy .45 Special (230 XTPs at 1400 fps) and a package only 33" overall with a 16" barrel.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:21 pm

Welcome aboard kentucylevergunr!

you sure know how to kick over a can of worms with your first question. You will probably get as many different answers as there are leverguns to choose from.

IMO the best home defense levergun would be a Model 92, whether Winchester, Browning, Rossi, or Uberti makes no difference, chambered in .357 Magnum.

I prefer the .357 over a .44 or a rifle caliber partly on penetration, partly on recoil, and partly on bullet construction. At 1200 fps, the .357 Magnum is the #1 Manstopping cartridge around. Boosting velocity 500 or 600 fps can't hurt.

Recoil is positively mild, unless you load it with Paco Kelly Commemorative Elk Stomper Loads, which translates in to rapid repeat shots for handling multiple targets.

.357 Magnum bullets are generally designed for use on man-sized critters and will expand where as heavier bullets require more resistance to expand which translates into greater penetration which endangers innocent bystanders.

Just in case no one has warned you, Leverguns are addictive. You will buy more.

BTW, Colonel Jeff Cooper thought highly of leverguns for defense. IIRC, he called pistol caliber equipped with ghost-ring reciever sights Kansas City Specials, and similarly equipped .30-30's as New York City Specials. or I might have the terms reversed, it's been a long time.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:42 pm

I'd opt for a .44 Mag or .45 Colt (same power, but 'sounds better' to the layperson), unless I was worried about bears or vehicles or something, in which case I'd use a .444 Marlin or .45-70.

A Marlin would be my likely choice because I like them, but my Puma .44 Mag does feed more smoothly than the Marlin, and so I just might make the Puma be the defensive gun for that reason, even though it has so many little parts to break and loose.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:49 pm

I have a Marlin 1894C in .357 Mag so would lean in that direction. However, any would do in a pinch.

kirkwood · Post by **kirkwood** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:05 pm

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote: what to you consider to be the ideal defensive levergun?

The one that's closest?

KentuckyLevrgunr · Post by **KentuckyLevrgunr** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:53 pm

Thanks for the welcome. Sorry I forgot an introduction, I actually used to post here every now and then but it's been a while and I couldn't remember my user name, so I just started a new account.

If the rifle would be for home use only, I'd have to agree that a Marlin 94 in .357 Mag or .44 Spl or Winchester 92 (or clone) in the same caliber would be nearly ideal, but I wanted an all around "when the poop hits the fan" rifle, so I went with the 94 Winchester in 30-30. Also, if....well if it gets to a point where ammunition is being banned, pistol ammunition is likely to be banned first. So even though I reload, ammo is most likely to be widely available the longest time for an unoffensive, "outdated" rifle cartridge. And yes, kirkwood, I definately understand that the best weapon for the job is the best one you can reach

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:04 pm

If I lived in a free country, as Gamekeeper said, but here in Oz we can't even use a blunt stick let alone a pointy one.

I would use my .357 as its the biggest calibre I have at the moment, and the .222 is too big a rifle to swing around in the house. I would think a 125gr .357 hollowpoint doing 1800 or so fps would stop most ferals in their tracks.

As for the end days scenario, the 30-30 is a proven calibre for a battle rifle but we are talking about defensive, not offensive and the easy reloadability, smaller size and lighter weight of the pistol cartridge would seem to make more sense if one was on the move in bush or hills country.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:21 pm

If we're talking defense against two legged vermin, I'd have to go with my Rossi 92 357 mag.

Being as how I don't live in bear country, it would do fine for an outdoors camp gun too.

KentuckyLevrgunr · Post by **KentuckyLevrgunr** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:30 pm

Here's a good question for yall. Like I said earlier, I'm looking to install a receiver peep. I'd like to have one with click adjustmends as apposed to just sliding around like the Williams 5D, so what's your suggestion for a sight?

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:31 pm

I use my 92 stainless .357 for this purpose. It has large target knobs on its sight and once it is set, I"m good out to where ever I would use it for.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:09 pm

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:Here's a good question for yall. Like I said earlier, I'm looking to install a receiver peep. I'd like to have one with click adjustmends as apposed to just sliding around like the Williams 5D, so what's your suggestion for a sight?

Williams FP

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:21 pm

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:I just picked up a copy of Shooting Times and I saw an interesting article stating a levergun makes a good defensive weapon. The funny thing is that I just bought my first 94 carbine in 30-30 (I already had a 9422 mag and a 94 Legacy 44 mag) for that very purpose about 3 days before I saw the article. So anyhow, I plan to install a receiver sight and pretty well call it finished, but what to you consider to be the ideal defensive levergun?

In the home, in the city, either a 44 Mag as you already have, or a .45 Colt. In both I'd load Winchester SilverTip HP or some of the other similar personal defense loads. In my experience the 30-30 is going to be problematic with excess penetration.

In the wilds, the above mentioned rifles or the Winchester 94 or Marlin 336 in 30-30 would be my choice. Excess penetration is not a worry so you have a lot more choices.

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:Here's a good question for yall. Like I said earlier, I'm looking to install a receiver peep. I'd like to have one with click adjustmends as apposed to just sliding around like the Williams 5D, so what's your suggestion for a sight?

That choice used to be simple. Either the Williams FP or Lyman 66 series sights would be the choice.
But now that Marlin and Winchester quit drilling and tapping their receivers for side mount sights it's gotten complicated.

Williams has made versions that use the scope mount holes on the top of the receivers for the late model rifles. This works really good on the Winchester 94 AE models. However certain Marlins, the 1894s for instance, will not allow the top mount sights to be mounted in the correct location. They either stick way back over the hammer or have to be mounted way forward in the front holes.
Neither is a good place and both are unattractive to boot.

The Rossi, Miroku, and European 92 copies are not drilled and tapped at all.

So, my suggestion would be this: if you get a rifle that is not drilled and tapped on the side for side mount sights, have it done. Then get a Williams FP or a Lyman 66 sight and mount it up.
That is what I did with my 1985 vintage Winchester 94 AE Trapper, and what will be done to my Marlin 1894 Cowboy in the future.

Joe

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:43 pm

One of my Marlin Cowboys has what I think is the ideal set up. I replaced the original (stamped) rear sight with the folding rear sight Marlin uses on the .44 mag, and added a marbles tang peep that normally is used without the aperture, making a fine ghost ring that I can flip down and flip the barrel-mounted sight up and use it as well. I did this because I didn't trust the peep not to get itself broken at an inopportune time, but so far it's been fine.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:58 pm

My 1894 .44 Marlin was bought partially for this purpose.

Being in Texas there isn't much a .44 won't stop. In the event of a firefight (it has happened out in the boonies occasionally.......run into some pot growers, etc) 10 rounds of .44 Mag will get someone's attention.

Leverguns, like shotguns have to be topped off all the time. If you get to "click" you're far better off changing to a pistol I hope you have, because "speed loading" a tube mag isn't all that quick. If you fire a couple rounds and continously top off, it's not too bad.

My rule is if you're bringing a rifle, try and make it in a rifle caliber. As an all around gun a .30-30 would be a better choice for open country, but for purely antipersonnel work the .357 and .44 work well inside their effective range. Having spent the last few years doing room entries, structure clearing, etc for a living with an M4, I'm biased to "lots of rounds, now!" and being able to reload without looking while running. But, as Cooper pointed out, what a fireteam does is different than a lone man.

A .30-30 in the hands of someone who's familiar with it can get you out of a pinch but you'll never completely dominate the landscape (too much area, not enough you).

I generally have a pistol and an AR with a few hundred rounds at hand, but I wouldn't feel completely outgunned with my Marlin at hand and a box of rounds if that was what was available. It worked 150 years ago, and while not the best out there now, it will still get it done, much like a wheelgun vs an automatic.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:02 am

My B-92/44.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:12 am

Anybody using a Marlin in this capacity ought to familiarize themself with loading rounds through the ejection port. Just leave the lever open and toss a round into the open port and slam er shut. With practice, a marlin can be single loaded VERY fast, which might be useful until ya get to cover where ya can load er up. Also, FWIW I ease the gate tension some to make em load EASY.

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:29 am

Interesting that you bring this up. The main reason that I chose 44 magnum when I bought my winchester 94 was that in the unlikely event I have to defend myself I'd rather the attacker has 429 reasons to regret it than 357 or 308. And as compared to the 30-30 the less expensive ammo makes practicing less expensive. So you make more solid hits. Now maybe you shoot enough that that is not a problem but that is not the case for many people. What I failed to consider however is the shoulder tenderization factor of the 44 magnum in a carbine length lever gun. I probably would still get a 44 magnum in a 92 clone howver. That having been said a 357 seems likely to be almost as if not outright as efective.

Alan Wood

gak · Post by **gak** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:01 am

For me, 92 in either .357/.38 or .44 Mag/.44 Sp--ideally paired with a revolver of same.

Alan, simple solution to the "shoulder tenderization" problem: use .44 Special for in close/HD "social work." More than capable in that capacity (and what I would (and do) have loaded anyway in a companion revolver for same duty--one of the very best SD rounds. Change to .44 Mag for "serious" use outside the home--in whatever capacity. The Special also lessens somewhat the penetration concern mentioned by a poster or two... and makes for an additional round of capacity in the tube (ditto .38s in a .357 lever); particularly noteworthy if you've got a trapper-length carbine (16") already of more limited roundage than standard carbines, and short and long rifles. Then....30-30 if hitting the "really" long distance trail. For the primary duty posed by the OP, .44 if I could only have one.

IIRC, Nate Kiowa Jones (NKJ or Steve Young) has a pretty slick sight package he puts on some customers' 92s.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:55 am

When I get in the truck, my 1894C in .357 usually comes with me. Second choice would be my Model 94 Trapper in .30-30

The .357 Mag out of an 18" barrel is nothing to dismiss, and there's a mag of 10.

The .30-30 will hold 5, and is... well... a .30-30.

Both sport XS sights and a scout rail for whatever accessory I choose to mount. Both are light, reliable, and swing easy, but for some reason I prefer the .357. Maybe it's because I can use the same ammo in my Blackhawk or my GP100.

I'm voting for a .357Mag carbine.

pdawg.shooter · Post by **pdawg.shooter** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:25 am

I prefer my Marlin 1895g in 45-70.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:26 am

Welcome aboard!

I keep a few long arms out of the safe and ready "just in case". One of them is my Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. As anyone will tell you, the point of a handgun is to fight your way to a rifle - and then the real action begins!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:20 am

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:Here's a good question for yall. Like I said earlier, I'm looking to install a receiver peep. I'd like to have one with click adjustmends as apposed to just sliding around like the Williams 5D, so what's your suggestion for a sight?

If you have a tapped top strap, like a Marlin, I prefer the Williams guide sight, one that just "slides around" like the 5D, which I use on my '94 .357 because it needs the side mount.

The advantage of the sliding around type of sight is that it doesn't get bumped or altered. My guide gun, which I sighted in a number of years ago, is still exactly lined up. Just the way I want the sights on a gun I might use defensively. Same with the 5D on the Ranger and the 39. I don't want my sights to move at all.

But that's just me,

Grizz

PS: for inside the house I prefer my 45 ACP because it holds more ammo than any of my leverguns, is MUCH easier to maneuver with inside, reloads much faster, and has the least likelyhood of trespassing on someone else's property.

But any levergun I'm holding will be more than adequate as a defensive arm if circumstances warrant a longer reach...

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:28 am

KentuckyLevrgunr wrote:Here's a good question for yall. Like I said earlier, I'm looking to install a receiver peep. I'd like to have one with click adjustmends as apposed to just sliding around like the Williams 5D, so what's your suggestion for a sight?

Wiliams FP... same sight but with click adjustment...

redlevel42 · Post by **redlevel42** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:54 am

Well, if it's going to be up close and personal, I'd rather have a shotgun. But that wasn't the question, was it.

I often carry my Winchester 94 AE Trapper in .45 Colt in my truck. So far, it has accounted for a coyote and a couple of feral, livestock chasing dogs. I load it with the same loads in my .45 Colt handguns; 9 or 10 grains of Unique behind a 250 grain SWC. I say 9 or 10 grains because I have a bunch of ammo loaded with 10 grains, but I have dropped back to 9 grains on the last batch. I don't have a chronograph, but all the manuals say that 10 grain load equals to about 1000fps in a 7.5 inch barrel Blackhawk. I would guess, maybe 1100-1200 fps in the rifle? Maybe someone has chrono'ed the load and can tell me. The rifle cycles the SWC bullets OK. It has definite "steps," or "hitches" in the process, but it has been 100% reliable in probably 1000 rounds. I am OK with the sights that came on the rifle. I made a shot on a running coyote at about 40 yards one day that I just don't believe I would have made with peep sights. I had to jump out of the truck and snap a shot as the dog ducked into a hedgerow. I saw him hump up as he disappeared. He showed up dead in a neighbor's field the next day. I thought the neighbor had fed him a Temik hamburger, but he told me the 'yote was holed-through and had just bled out in the peanut field.

Now, here's where some of you might scoff at me. However, I don't feel all that terribly under-gunned when I have my 9422M Trapper .22 Magnum, loaded either with solids or hollow-points. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but a few quick solids to the chest would slow any human attacker down, and I know for a fact it will put down a 40 lb feral dog with one shot to the boiler room.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:21 am

I mostly don't keep a loaded rifle in the house, but there is usually a .45acp, 357, or some other way to apply lead at arms length. I've been known to keep a 39 of some sort with a full mag sitting in the corner, and may change that to a 9422M....I don't really care for the 9422 all that much, but it is 100% reliable where I have had jams with the 39s if you don't hold them just right....

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:46 am

When I lived in the woods of Maine we kept a 1895ss stoked up with 405 grainers by the door for vermin of all types two and four legged, and a marlin 336 30-30 for her cause she didn't like the recoil of the big brother. We had horses and were on the lookout for wolf and bear ....mostly. Tom

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:44 pm

Howdy,

I am kinda surprised that no one has suggested a lever shotgun!

John

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:17 pm

Bronco wrote:Howdy,

I am kinda surprised that no one has suggested a lever shotgun!

John

I thought about a lever shotty,... but then I compared the paper ballistics.

A 410Bore lever with a factory slug ballistics works out to about the same as a 44mag. But two 44's can be carried in the same space as one 410 shell.

A lever 12ga. moderate slug ballistics run around 2,500 foot pounds,... where as a 444 (my caliber choice) runs over 3,000 foot pounds with factory ammo, and I can carry two 444's in the same space as a 12ga. shell.

My Big bore lever has replaced my Rem 1100 which was my up close and personal defense weapon,... with less weight, better balance and quicker on point.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:42 pm

Regarding defensive levers, I take a two-pronged approach. I like the idea of a companion carbine for my sixguns, and after seeing chrono data that my friend ScottT and others have obtained with .357 lever rifles, I have settled on .357 Marlins for my future* house and close-range utility carbines. The .357 become a different animal when fired from a longer tube, and I know from personal experience what a .357 will do to an attacker at close range. OTOH, loading those skinny .357 cartridges in a hurry is not my idea of expedient, so I believe a .357 lever rifle NEEDS a couple of companions: a sixgun on the short side, and another long weapon.

The other long weapon, the second prong of my approach, is a Browning BLR, in .308 Winchester. I can slap another loaded box magazine into a BLR in less time that it takes to insert an individual cartridge into the loading gate of a traditional lever rifle. For those with experience with the Browning BAR's magazine system, the BLR has a DIFFERENT system; the whole mag drops out with the activation of a recessed lever, and the spare will easily pop into place.

*The reason for the "future" part of the first paragraph above is that I still wear a badge, and my chief wants me to shoot bad guys with certain specified 12 gauge shotguns, and certain specified .223 autoloading carbines. When Hurricane Rita was bearing down on us, though, as we are playing host to some nice folks from NOLA, there was a very unauthorized, yet very familiar, .308 lever rifle in a certain patrol car trunk. ("Boot" for you UK guys.)

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:46 pm

Bronco wrote:Howdy,

I am kinda surprised that no one has suggested a lever shotgun!

John

The lever shotguns I have handled were NOT nearly as quick-handling as lever rifles. It looks good on the big screen, with the Governator handling it, though.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:00 pm

Marlin 1894 in .357 first choice, then a .44mag second choice. I have to use a Marlin 336C .35 rem that works!

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:17 pm

Well, I reckon there must be some reason that my Rossi 92 SRC .357 sets by the fridge at the back door and jumps in the truck when it leaves home.I feel plumb confident that it will do what I need done when the time should ever come.

KentuckyLevrgunr · Post by **KentuckyLevrgunr** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:25 pm

I guess what I was really trying to get around to with my last post was to ask what yall think of the aluminum Lyman 66? Should I avoid it? Is it worth it to wait and find a used steel 66 or old Redfield? I'm leaning towards the 66 over the FP because of the knob adjustments and also because, honestly, I like the Lyman name and the way it looks. Sure, I'll most likely set it for 100 yds and just use Ky windage for everything else, but I'd like to have click adjustments with easy to use knobs just because it's nice. BTW, I don't have anything against the 5D. I have one on my Remington 572 Fieldmaster and it's made it into a FINE squirrel rifle.

wm · Post by wm » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:06 pm

I always thought a Ruger 96 chambered in 45ACP with a 16" barrel and tritium sights would be an ideal weapon to supplemental a 45ACP sidearm for defensive carry.

I've said it but so far no one has recognized my genius!!!

Wm

scarville · Post by **scarville** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:13 pm

I have a Marlin in 357 that I use as an "urban defense carbine". It's loaded with 158 gr Hydrashok and I keep a couple of speed strips with it for reloads. My only real concern is how the higher velocity affects the bullets. I've clocked the 158 gr Hydrashoks at 1800 fps and I'm not sure if they will behave properly at that velocity.

As soon as my wrist is healed (carpal tunnel relief) I intend to try a box of 140 gr flex tips from Hornady to see how they perform.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:15 pm

wm wrote:I always thought a Ruger 96 chambered in 45ACP with a 16" barrel and tritium sights would be an ideal weapon to supplemental a 45ACP sidearm for defensive carry.

I've said it but so far no one has recognized my genius!!!

Wm

As somebody who regularly shoots a Marlin 1894 cut to 16" and chambered for a ballistic equivalent to .45 ACP (same case, but with a .45 Colt rim), there are two things working against it. One is the rimless design of the acp will, in many rifle make the extractor a redesign, not that simple, and second, and most important, the .45 ACP is a cartridge already VERY efficient in a handgun, and unlike the LONG revolver rounds that gain a LOT when shot through a rifle, the ACP gains relatively little IF ACP pressures are observed. Of course in strong guns, one can up the pressure and get .45 Super or even .460 Rowland performance (I do in cowboy .45 Special for deer out of the Marlin), but that defeats the "one ammo-two guns" premise.
That said, specialty round or not, when stoked with a pretty healthy does of Power Pistol (in the upper 1/3 of the Rowland range) and a 230 XTP, 1400 fps with the thin-skinned XTP bullet designed for ACP, it's nothing but a fantastic SD/HD as well as short range hunting round.

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:32 pm

"In the home, in the city, either a 44 Mag as you already have, or a .45 Colt. In both I'd load Winchester SilverTip HP or some of the other similar personal defense loads. In my experience the 30-30 is going to be problematic with excess penetration."

The first shooting I ever investigated (1978) was with a 94 Win in 30-30 from about 15 feet with 150gr Remington Soft Points in the chest. The bullet stopped just below the skin in the back (you could see the bulge through the deceased tee shirt). At the autopsy it was given to me and had mushroomed perfectly.

I us a 1894P with .44 Spl Gold Dot in it here (my black guns are illegal).

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:57 pm

Hmmm... I ain't so sure... but, on the Outdoor Channel a few weeks ago they had a segment on the levergun as a defensive gun. On one hand, it's generally not perceived as an "aggressive" weapon like many of the semi-auto versions of military weapons; on the other hand, in almost all of it's variations it's quite, light and handy.

My .30-30 Trapper is my main gun when a potential threat is found around the farm. Before I got the Trapper, it was one of my mdl 94 carbines in .30-30. It's more the familiarity with the gun than the gun itself that means it fills the need.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:31 pm

Griff wrote:Hmmm... I ain't so sure... but, on the Outdoor Channel a few weeks ago they had a segment on the levergun as a defensive gun. On one hand, it's generally not perceived as an "aggressive" weapon like many of the semi-auto versions of military weapons; on the other hand, in almost all of it's variations it's quite, light and handy.

My .30-30 Trapper is my main gun when a potential threat is found around the farm. Before I got the Trapper, it was one of my mdl 94 carbines in .30-30. It's more the familiarity with the gun than the gun itself that means it fills the need.

I think yer onto something there, Griff. Folks don't generally get in a dither if they see somebody with a levergun (it says hunting), and almost anybody in the world knows how they work (if only from TV), and will appreciate the potential for defense as well as taking of game....

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:46 pm

I like the XS Sights for fast/close shooting. If the BLR had more mags available without costing a ton, it would have promise.

The Texas Rangers used the 95 Winchester for this reason as well back in the day. Range, power....lots of both.

redlevel42 · Post by **redlevel42** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:36 am

adirondakjack wrote:
Griff wrote:Hmmm... I ain't so sure... but, on the Outdoor Channel a few weeks ago they had a segment on the levergun as a defensive gun. On one hand, it's generally not perceived as an "aggressive" weapon like many of the semi-auto versions of military weapons; on the other hand, in almost all of it's variations it's quite, light and handy.

My .30-30 Trapper is my main gun when a potential threat is found around the farm. Before I got the Trapper, it was one of my mdl 94 carbines in .30-30. It's more the familiarity with the gun than the gun itself that means it fills the need.

I think yer onto something there, Griff. Folks don't generally get in a dither if they see somebody with a levergun (it says hunting), and almost anybody in the world knows how they work (if only from TV), and will appreciate the potential for defense as well as taking of game....

The same can be said about a double barrel shotgun, something like a Stevens 311, with the barrels cut to about 22 to 24 inches. It doesn't have the threatening looks of a "tacticool" shotgun, nor even a real "sawed-off," but there is just nothing quite as handy. I have a few that serve double duty, as hunting guns and home/truck defensive weapons. You should have seen the look on my wife's face when we checked into the Hilton in Savannah. When we got to the room, I took the Stoeger Coach Gun out of the luggage and started putting it together. One just can't be too careful.

wm · Post by wm » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:24 am

I'll second the short/coach gun SXS shotgun approach.....I have a Russian SXS shorty that is mighty handy and comforting.

Many have trumpted the 30/30, 45LC, 44mag/spec, and 357mag/38spec. I find it interesting there have been no replies concerning the 35 Remington or any of the other lever action rounds (444, 32-20, 300 Sav, etc).

Wm

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:28 am

wm wrote:I'll second the short/coach gun SXS shotgun approach.....I have a Russian SXS shorty that is mighty handy and comforting.

Many have trumpted the 30/30, 45LC, 44mag/spec, and 357mag/38spec. I find it interesting there have been no replies concerning the 35 Remington or any of the other lever action rounds (444, 32-20, 300 Sav, etc).

Wm

I guess I wasn't clear in my other post. The Marlin 444 is my go to defense weapon for less that a hundreds yards.

Over the past years I have slowly sold off all my DETACHABLE magazine long arms I own, except one. I have come to the conclusion after many years of packing in the high country, that the LESS moving parts and the LESS detachable parts,... work best for me on or off horseback. A squaw bag full of ammo works better for me than a LBV full of magazines needing periodic reloading, with multiple springs that can become problematic.

I find the lever gun to come in second for quick repeatable shots, only to a pump, (semi-autos not included),... and, the tube mag lever action second to none of the detachable magazine long arms, 'for my needs'. For this reason I do appreciate fixed mag semi-autos and bolts as well, but that's another topic.

Bottom line, a lever gun is the best "for me" as a defensive weapon. A squaw bag with a hundred rounds of 444's slung over my shoulder is as simple and dependable a system as I can think of. I can reload at will, without losing a visual on target, or removing my weapon from immediate control. I think a lever can and should handle any trouble I can foresee,... in the mountains or on the ranch.

They are simple, quick handling, powerful and reliable,.... what more would anyone need?

just one man's opinion,
76/444

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:12 pm

While I'm a bit more "advanced" in weaponry and typically have something 5.56mm with 30 rounds on board at hand at any given time....

Like you I can appreciate as a single man moving in the woods/outdoors as basic bolt gun or levergun with spare ammo onboard. From familiarity, I'd have a Lee-Enfield or Mauser or Mosin-Nagant myself, or at least something like a modified Savage or Ruger M77 MK II with irons, but there's nothing particularly wrong with a a .30-30 and 10 boxes of ammo if you're not facing down a coordinated squad or fireteam action. As Cooper wrote about the Scout rifle, for a single rifleman "shoot and scoot" tends to be more survivable than burning off 60 rounds rapid fire. If it's what you got......learn to run it well.

Steve Collins · Post by **Steve Collins** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:39 pm

My main 'go-to' rifle these days is an AK with a folding stock and a bag with four mags along with it. Rides with me most days, and I know if a fight comes, I'd rather have that than just about anything else. I won't purposely hamstring myself if I don't have to.

That being said, if I'm heading to the woods (where I've been more and more lately,) I'll just as easily grab my Winchester Wrangler .44 Magnum. I'm not too worried about the 2 legged critters as I am about the 4 legged. Lots of black bear where I go, and I can carry the same ammo for my 4" model 29.

Either one will do, but it is 2009, not 1909...

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:30 am

The best thing about a levergun or a shotgun for defense is that you can reload as you go.

I would love to have a Marlin 1894 in either 357 or 44 Mag.

bogie

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:35 pm

I live in the woods, literally, and home invasions are rare around here though one happened about 15 years ago to an aquaintance of mine. On my wifes side of the bed is a Marlin .357. On my side of the bed is a Marlin CB .44. Both are hunting rifles and defensive rifles. About the closest thing we have to an assault...er....homeland defense weapon! Haven't needed to defend myself with either yet, but 3 years ago with the .44 I had to fend off a nice bull elk 60 yards from the back door at the edge of the garden on the last day of elk season

I'm not sure he planned to assault me, but with a tag in my pocket I couldn't take the chance

22