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When I was working up a load for my fathers Springfield I never thought I would get groups like this... Especially with a peep sight!
Here are the first 3 shots during ladder testing.
I then loaded cartridges using the charge in cartridge #2 and tried a group.
I am sure this is why they don't believe me on other sites; I get better groups then the "experts" that have $3000 scopes.
I thought I would be doing phenomenally if I got around an inch, half that was totally unexpected!
P.S. The second pic is so small because a certain sites owner PMed me asking me to reduce the size of my signature, so I made that. They are really not liking me there...
Folks that have little or no experience with receiver sights tend to disbelieve what they are capable of. Since I grew up with a peep sighted rifle that was known for accuracy and punched a LOT of paper, I have no doubts. I've shot groups that made scope only shooters eyes bug out.
Good shootin'!
2x22
"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." - Thomas Jefferson
2X22 wrote:Folks that have little or no experience with receiver sights tend to disbelieve what they are capable of. Since I grew up with a peep sighted rifle that was known for accuracy and punched a LOT of paper, I have no doubts. I've shot groups that made scope only shooters eyes bug out.
Good shootin'!
2x22
That peep is a really nice one too. The peep sight hole on my Eddystone US Model of 1917 is a lot bigger and the sight blade is harder to center than that Lyman sight. But I can hit pretty well with it, I should try a group at 100 yards, I've only tried at 300.
[The peep sight hole on my Eddystone is a lot bigger and the sight blade is harder to center than that Lyman sight.]
Small aperture = small groups - best for target shooting (used in the Olympics, IIRC)
Large aperture = faster shooting w/slightly larger groups - better for quickly-presented shots, as when hunting.
FWIW - NO peep sight shooter should be consiously trying to center the front sight in whatever size aperture - that defeats the way the sight was designed to be used.
The human eye is a wonderful sighting tool, and will self-center itself sub-consiously, if the shooter simply looks through the aperture w/o actually looking at it, and placing the front sight "on target", beit game or bullseye.
APERTURE SIGHTS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS NOW FOR NIGH ONTO 130 YEARS.
THE U.S. ARMY PROVED 100 YEARS AGO YOU CAN SHOOT JUST AS TIGHT A GROUP IE;SHOOT AS WELL, WITH A LARGER APERTURE AS YOU CAN WITH A PINHOLE APERTURE.
Helped a friend test different lots of 22LR ammo in his Anschutz target rifle... Group size avg. stayed the same whether with aperture sight or the scope. What will knock your sox off is when you see small groups done like that with open sights..Especially when you're the one shooting them.. Along the way I passed on many a fine rifle because they didn't have aperture sights...That was a mistake
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
A well made peep/reciever or a vernier tang, etc., will shoot small groups, esp. with an aperture front sight (and sometimes with wind adjustment and a spirit level) but you also need good eyesight.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
I am one of those old goats who learned riflecraft with a tight sling and a good receiver/peep sight. I learned long, long ago, that groups with a scope and peep are not different. Both sights will deliver all the accuracy the rifle has to give.
When I was young and limber I used to shoot the Dewar match with a Winchester 52 D bull barrel 22 rifle. This required shooting at 50 and 100 yards and 50 and 100 meters. I prefered the Redfield Olympic peep sight over the Lyman 20X Targetspot for most purposes. The scope would not deliver better scores. It was useful to watch the mirage and gage the wind, but that could be done with the spotting scope just as well. I found the scope a little distracting as I could watch the cross hairs jump with each heart beat.
A good scope will add some time to your hunting day early and late. However a good peep will put the meet on the table out to 300 or 400 yards. YOu don't need to be able to see where you bullet will strike, you just have to know where it will strike in relationship to your front sight. YOu can centerpunch a target or deer, even though the target isn't much wider than the front sight.
All of this is to say, I don't doubt your pics and post. Folks who understand rifles and sights have known this for generations.
I have an '03 in my locker with a Lyman 48. I don't doubt your results at all. Mine will do pretty well too. I've never understood why everyone thinks they have to have scopes. I may change my mind as I age, but so far I can still shoot peeps and I really enjoy doing so.
Bob
Yep, again today I had someone call me a liar. I would never dream of calling someone a liar on something like this. I can see if I was blind or something, but sheesh!
I mean someone that shoots every day and has videos of almost all shots, (not ladder testing and what have I,) wouldn't you think they would be able to shoot, and also have guns that can?
Your rifle with the sights you have on it, is what I would like to have on my Marlin MR-7. Unfortunately I cannot find a gunsmith capable of doing that work. There are none here in IL. Only butchers who call themselves gunsmiths.
I do not doubt your groups and I understand how you feel when you're called a liar. I've never scoped a lever gun, yet I've been told I can't shoot without one. There are members here that will tell you you MUST use a scope to shoot game in the western states. Some will say they have to have a scope to shoot in close in the dense eastern forests.
What I think is most people are not riflemen any more, they're lazy couch potatoes who want everything easy. And they've bought the sales pitch that scopes are more accurate than irons.
Oh well.
May I ask, ( you've probably said, but I missed it ) what brand and model that rear sight is? Also do you know of a gunsmith that can put those type sights on a bolt gun?
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
J Miller wrote:May I ask, ( you've probably said, but I missed it ) what brand and model that rear sight is? Also do you know of a gunsmith that can put those type sights on a bolt gun?
They are Lyman sights. They were installed on the rifle at the factory.
I really don't know any gunsmiths, I usually just fix my stuff myself.
Try the Lyman site to see if they have one for your rifle. I see in the Midwayusa catalog they have them for Remington 700, Win 70 and the Savage 110, maybe that sight would fit on yours as well?
This summer I did somewhat of a test using my Browning T Bolt .22. I fired 4 10 shot groups with both a good 4 power scope and 4 with the original peep sight that came with the gun at 50 yds. Averaging the groups there was about a tenth of an inch advantage to the scope. Now when I get a flyer or bad group with one of my lever guns i have confidence it's either me or the ammo, not the sighting arrangement.
I have a stock 1921 vintage Springfield and I'm an always surprised at the accuracy with this old rifle using the standard peep site. Last time at range using Korean War vintage AP ammo I was hitting the 8" steel gong at 200 yards consistently without a miss 40 rounds in a row. Quit while I was ahead and impressing fellow shooters.
For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope. Romans 15:4
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness. 2Timothy 3:16
That's fantastic !! I love Springfield sporters and that one is a keeper!!
.***