Winchester model 94 question

[shawplat]

Hello all, I am new to the forum and I have a couple questions. I just picked up a 1981 model 94 trapper (pre safety top eject) which I was told is nib unfired. The gun looks great except one thing I noticed while cleaning and oiling it was that the inside of the reciever appears to be a reddish color (it almost looks like annodized aluminum, even though its steel). This is definately not rust as far as I can tell because this is the only area where it appears, and it is fairly uniform inside the action with some areas looking like there is "overspray" of this red coating (near the end of the bolt rails). What I am trying to find out is if this was done at the factory, and if so what its purpose is. I might add that Hoppes will not take this off. Also, could any of you who have a model 94 of this vintage take a look inside your actions with a flashlight and let me know if you see the same thing?

Thank you

[shawplat]

Another thing that I noticed was that the barrel seems to be highly polished almost mirror smooth, whereas the magazine tube is not. You can feel the difference in roughness with your fingernail to some degree. I was also wondering if this was a common occurance?

[Marc]

The red color is there because the receiver is made from a type of cast steel that turns red or purple when you blue it. The outside of the receiver is iron plated and then blued. The inside didn't get plated so it turned red.

I also have a barrel and magazine tube set that I bought from Numrich that is like yours. The barrel has a nice finish but the tube is rough and dull. It still works though.

[shawplat]

So as far as the red color is concerned, is it present on all of the cast steel type receiver 94s? And in terms of the barrel/mag tube polishing, have you seen many factory guns exhibiting this? I am just trying to assess whether these conditions are normal or if they are indications of someone doing some gunsmithing after the fact.

Thanks

[Chuck 100 yd]

What Marc said +1 This is normal. Forget it and go shooting.

[J Miller]

Yep, you have a 100% normal Win 94 for that vintage. Enjoy it.

Other than a year older my 1980 Trapper is exactly as you described yours.

Joe

[gamekeeper]

Welcome to the fire.. Don't forget to tell us how it shoots!

[nemhed]

I'm not a Winchester expert, but welcome to the fire1

[Nath]

That Winchester is dangerous and you need to dispose of it as soon as thing, it just so happens I can do that for you. I am busy just of late but can drop everything to help.

Anything for a friend.

Nath


PS, welcome

[jlchucker]

I've owned a couple of trappers, and have looked at plenty more over the years. That rough finish on the magazine tube is pretty common on Winnie trappers. Those to me look like machining marks that were not polished out. Also, a common thing you'll find on trappers is that sometimes that magazine tube can be moved back and forth a little with your fingers. I've kept one trapper, a 44, and have used it extensively. It eventually went to my gunsmith for a modification to eliminate that looseness, permanently. I never asked him about the particulars of that fix, which took place some 15 or so years ago.

[shawplat]

How common is the red color in the receiver on these guns? What was the time period for the cast steel actions to when they switched back to machined out of bar stock, mine is SN 501XXXX dating to 1981 (My particular gun was one of a special run of model 94 trappers made for WACA)? I thought that they only used the cast steel for a couple years in the early 70's, so does anyone have a detailed writeup on all of the material changes on the 94 actions and different types of blueing they experimented with post 64? Also if this is one of the plated recievers, should I expect that it will start flaking on me at some point for no apparent reason? Another question I have is does anyone have a serial number in 1981 as to when the first USRA gun was produced? I am trying to also figure out whether or not mine is an Olin or USRA, and the only thing I could come up with so far is that USRA took over in July of 1981. The warrantee card for my gun says USRA but the registration card says Olin on it. I assume that the guns could have been made by Olin and marketed by USRA later on, but I dont know for sure. Also, what does the "original" factory grease on these guns look like? What is the best way to store something like this long term to prevent rust?

[J Miller]

The cast receivers started in 1964 and were used until Olin sold the Winchester plant to USRAC in the early 80s. I believe they went back to the forged and machined receivers in 82.

The scintered (sp) receivers were a good solid part but would not take a normal hot blue worth a darn. In the years from 64 till the late 70s they tried all sorts of finishes. Black chrome was common in the mid 60s to 70s, color case was one other finish. Then at some point they started plating the receivers with iron and bluing them normally. That is how the late 70s to the end of the cast receivers were done. If in good condition these guns almost look like the pre-64s.

NOTE: I just found this in my hard drive Winchester folder:

WINCHESTER MODEL 1894
Winchester 1894 receivers between 2,770,000 and 5,024,957 (1964-1981) were machined from a graphitic steel casting and will not accept normal blueing. To make it more confusing, serial numbers 3,185,692 to 3,806,499 (1968-1972) were black chrome plated, and 3,806,500 to 5,024,957 (1972 -1981) were iron plated.
I can hot blue all of these, but must first grind off the plating. The shiniest finish that can go on these is 400 grit ( about factory).

George Roghaar Firearm Refinishing.
http://www.gunblue.homestead.com/Stainless.html

AND THIS:

Winchester 1894/94 time lines. By OD on Leverguns .com



1894s- Oct. 20, 1894 to approximately serial #950,000, late 1924 when Winchester removed the 1 & 8 from the stamping die, they then officially became the Model '94.

Pre-wars-1924 to 1943, approximately serial #950,000 to #1,350,000.

Flatbands- approximately -1943 to 1949, just after serial #1,317,450 to approximately #1,550,000

Pre-64s- 1949 to 1964, just after serial #1,550,000 to serial #2,600,011, reportedly the last pre-64 Model 94.

AND SOME MORE:

Winchester Model 94 Manufacturing Dates
1982 - 2006

1981 U.S. Repeating Arms assumes control of license to mfg. Winchesters
Changeover serial numbers for Model 94 is around 5,000,000.
1981 4,870,000 to 5,014,556
1982 to 5,093,968
1983 to 5,115,742
1984 to 5,264,685
1985 to 5,372,442
1986 to 5,439,997 Chapter 11 Many parts guns made
1987 to 5,463,774
1988 to 5,491,805
1989 to 5,527,732
1990 to 5,612656
1991 to 5,999,999 Last non crossbolt safety
1992 6,000,000 to 6,054,408
1993 to 6,087,144
1994 to 6,174,987 1894-1994 marking for first half of year
1995 to 6,198,987
1996 to 6,265,870
1997 to 6,395,546
1998 to 6,360,632
1999 to 6,395,546
2000 6400134 to 6,455.865
2001 to 6,466,766
2002 to 6,494,011 safety change over from crossbolt to tang between here and first of 2003 numbers.
2003 6,494,346 to 6,516,423 6494346 has tang safety
2004 6,517,000 to 6,549,926 New right side marking: “Winchester trademark licensed from Olin Corp.”
2005 to 6,584,120
2006 ? to 7,076,704 Highest numbered Model 94 ever seen. Plant closed some time between April and August, 2006

Chart made by jbledsoe http://www.jbledsoe.com/MfgDates.htm

Joe

[Chuck 100 yd]

Thanks Joe !!! I printed that off to go into my leverguns book.

[bsaride]

Shawplat,

If J miller says it regarding win 94's you can expect it to be correct info.

Glad to see you made it over and got some good info on your rifle.

[shawplat]

I have another question about this gun. While inspecting it closer, I noticed that three receiver screws (hammer screw, carrier screw, and link plate screw) appear to have been ground flat on their ends to approximately fit the width of the action before they were blued. This looks to have been done by manual methods (fine grinding wheel or belt sander). I looked at about 4 other post 64 model 94's at the local gunshow this weekend and the screws on these guns had a slightly "rounded" end that protruded slightly from the flat surface of the receiver. I have not been able to find another gun online in a picture that appears to have ground ends on the screw, so I am starting to wonder if this could have been done at the factory or would have been done later on. Has anybody else ever seen this before or have m94's that exhibit this trait? Also upon closer inspection, the WACA engraving on the left side of the receiver doesnt look to be symmetrical and appears to have been done after the gun was blued (because it has sharp edges and is "in the white" on the bottom where some of the gold washing has lifted up"). It doesnt look to have been done at the Winchester factory, so I would appreciate any more info on this WACA trapper if anyone can comment.

[J Miller]

I have another question about this gun. While inspecting it closer, I noticed that three receiver screws (hammer screw, carrier screw, and link plate screw) appear to have been ground flat on their ends to approximately fit the width of the action before they were blued. This looks to have been done by manual methods (fine grinding wheel or belt sander). I looked at about 4 other post 64 model 94's at the local gunshow this weekend and the screws on these guns had a slightly "rounded" end that protruded slightly from the flat surface of the receiver. I have not been able to find another gun online in a picture that appears to have ground ends on the screw, so I am starting to wonder if this could have been done at the factory or would have been done later on. Has anybody else ever seen this before or have m94's that exhibit this trait? Also upon closer inspection, the WACA engraving on the left side of the receiver doesnt look to be symmetrical and appears to have been done after the gun was blued (because it has sharp edges and is "in the white" on the bottom where some of the gold washing has lifted up"). It doesnt look to have been done at the Winchester factory, so I would appreciate any more info on this WACA trapper if anyone can comment.

shawplat,

Those flat ended screws are factory. My 1980 Trapper has the same thing. Don't know why, don't really care. The screws work so I've never given them a second thought. If I were to analyze the screws I'd say the factory had a batch that came out too long so they bobbed them via the grinder method.

Go to my thread "How to tell Pre&Post 64 Win 94s apart" http://onesticky.levergunscommunity.org ... sters.html , and look at the pics of my 1980 Trapper. You'll see the flat ended screws.

About this WACA engraving I have no idea. Mine is just plain with standard Winchester markings. Can you post some pics?

Joe