OT-What turns you off the quickest in Westerns?

[rangerider7]

buscadero rigs with tie downs
modern levers
modern creased hats
modern spurs (plated or aluminum)
modern saddles (low back or padded)
DA revolvers
trophy style buckles
modern wallets
fake wanted posters
fake money
too many shots out of a sixgun
parade saddles
modern playing cards
modern chips

[Buck Elliott]

Pretty much says it...

Or rubber tire tracks in a scene... Watched BITE THE BULLET the other night -- been a long time since I'd seen it -- there were OBVIOUS truck tire tracks on the road in almost every action scene...

[bdhold]

snapping the pistol with their wrist like they're slinging the bullet from the barrel by the force of their snap

[Buck Elliott]

snapping the pistol with their wrist like they're slinging the bullet from the barrel by the force of their snap

That one actually has some basis in fact. There was a time when the US horse cavalry taught that method, when shooting from horseback, although maybe not quite that exaggerated...

Try it sometime.

[FWiedner]

Modern era figures of speech that were unknown during the period represented and "valley boy" accents.

[J Miller]

The clickity clackity noises they dub in every time someone handles a revolver or rifle just annoy the heck out of me.

Plus many of the already mentioned things. For instance in "The Train Robbers" John Wayne and Ann Margaret are having a conversation and you can see where they brushed out the sand behind Wayne. Looks really obvious.

Joe

[tdoor]

Most of the above plus, cocking then decocking a (presumably loaded) single action, then reholstering without regard to hammer/loaded cylinder situation....

[KirkD]

firearms incorrect for the period. If I see nothing but Colt SAA's and Winchester Model 1892's or 1894's I have an awful hard time getting into the movie. I like a lot of period-correct, firearm variety. That is one thing some of the more recent Westerns have done well in.

[Blaine]

Ugly Cowgirls....

[Leverluver]

"snapping the pistol with their wrist like they're slinging the bullet from the barrel by the force of their snap"

"That one actually has some basis in fact. There was a time when the US horse cavalry taught that method, when shooting from horseback, although maybe not quite that exaggerated"

I think that has something to do with a carryover from the cap and ball era. Exaggerated flipping helped clear the cap pieces from the action; from fired to vertical moreso than vertical to firing position.

"The clickity clackity noises they dub in every time someone handles a revolver or rifle just annoy the heck out of me"

Yup, evidently the producer of Quigley thought that a Sharps didn't have a sexy enough "sound" to it so they dubbed an 1886 or some other lever. He had a point but it's still annoying.

[Ben_Rumson]

Ill timed simulated recoil/barrel flip or rise.. done by someone that doesn’t have a clue.. Which seems to be most everybody...I’druther see none than stupidly faked recoil.. You do see some actual recoil in older moves when the BP blanks had enough of a powder charge in them to make actual recoil and authentic smoke too ..Recently I saw a guy at the range mimicking recoil with his C&B pistol.. It had almost nil recoil but he was under the impression that raising the pistol after the shot was part of the way one is supposed to shoot a Pistol LOL

[L_Kilkenny]

Foul language and gratuitous sex (or even the implication of such). It maybe more realistic but I don't need to see cowboys chasing mattress weights and here the F bomb dozens of times. Romance is bad enough, go farther than that and it kills a movie for me.

LK

[J Miller]

Modern era figures of speech that were unknown during the period represented and "valley boy" accents.

FWiedner,

Could you elaborate on this. I'm doing good just to speak modern English. I really don't have a clue as to what the speech patterns of the 1800s would be or really when most of the modern ones originated.

I also agree about the use of the "F" word. I don't know when that word came about, but it's one they don't need to use.

Another pet turn off is faked love scenes where they simulate the act with both fully dressed. If they gotta do that then leave it out.

Joe

[vancelw]

snapping the pistol with their wrist like they're slinging the bullet from the barrel by the force of their snap

That one actually has some basis in fact. There was a time when the US horse cavalry taught that method, when shooting from horseback, although maybe not quite that exaggerated...

Try it sometime.

The aggravating part is when the hammer falls with the barrel 45 degrees in the air. The bad guys would have to be riding giraffes on a hill top to be that high up.

I know it's hard to recreate, but watching a 5000 head trail drive that actually only has 100 head in it.... I guess the dust would get in the way of the expensive cameras

[Blaine]

Romance is bad enough,

The last straw that Brokeback the Camel?

Name one, just one, Louis L'Amore story that didn't have a love interest, or any western for that matter.....

[shooter]

Modern era figures of speech that were unknown during the period represented and "valley boy" accents.

FWiedner,

Could you elaborate on this. I'm doing good just to speak modern English. I really don't have a clue as to what the speech patterns of the 1800s would be or really when most of the modern ones originated.

I also agree about the use of the "F" word. I don't know when that word came about, but it's one they don't need to use.

Another pet turn off is faked love scenes where they simulate the act with both fully dressed. If they gotta do that then leave it out.

Joe

I can't quite name any particular phrases offhand, but speech was definitely different back then. Just think how differently people talk now than they did 50 yrs. ago. You can still understand a 50 yr. old conversation perfectly well, but some things are different, like slang words that were used then and now. Also, people that were actually literate in the Old West had a much better command of the English language than most people do today. Most everyone today in the U.S. is at least somewhat literate, but the educated from back then were educated better, IMO, at least in regard to proper use of the English language.

The "f" word has been in use in one form or another for a few hundred years. It's nothing new, and I suspect it was in heavy use with the rough and tumble characters that we like to romanticize so much. I suspect that we wouldn't be that impressed with the language of some of the characters we like to read or watch movies about. Others, I'm sure, had impeccable morals and standards, and refrained from profanity, chasing women of the night, etc. It was a much different time back then, but some things are always the same.

[vancelw]

Name one, just one, Louis L'Amore story that didn't have a love interest, or any western for that matter.....

Yeah, but at least he spared us the details.

he glanced at her...she glimpsed demurely at him when her daddy wasn't looking...and after the bad guy died he just kissed her, and they lived happily ever after.

I read about 80 of those paperbacks in Junior High. I never could figure out why those gals didn't just fall in love with me when I looked at them. I didn't know you had to actually TALK to them

[shooter]

A lot of the aforementioned things bug me, but I've learned to just let a lot of them go, or else I won't enjoy an otherwise good movie. One thing that bugs me is blatantly incorrect dress for the period. I think they've done a good job with the attire in most of the recent westerns, and some of the older ones. I don't even really have a problem with how they dressed in John Wayne's movies, although I'm sure they could have done a better job. It's some of the old spaghetti westerns, and the older movies and tv shows that really get me. That's why I don't like them that much. Sure, the Lone Ranger, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, and others are cowboy icons, but you couldn't get any further from authenticity with some of those old shows.

[FWiedner]

Modern era figures of speech that were unknown during the period represented and "valley boy" accents.

FWiedner,

Could you elaborate on this. I'm doing good just to speak modern English. I really don't have a clue as to what the speech patterns of the 1800s would be or really when most of the modern ones originated.

I also agree about the use of the "F" word. I don't know when that word came about, but it's one they don't need to use.

Another pet turn off is faked love scenes where they simulate the act with both fully dressed. If they gotta do that then leave it out.

Joe

I'm gonna have to get back to you on this, Joe.

I'll need to watch a few films to get a collection of "quotable" examples.

I've heard many examples of language and expressions that wouldn't have been available to use.

[model55]

Besides all that has been mentioned already,one thing that gets me is after a fight nobody ever gathers up weapons or horses to use later it is assumed they left them laying where ever,I realize this would make for a long movie but later on in the show when ammo low ya got think "What a dummy".Another is when they are out of ammo throwing the gun at who they are fighting.........

[Bosco]

Biggest turn off is 15 shots from a Colt SAA. It's not a Glock, they often loaded only 5 back then. Turns me off!

[bmtshooter]

Yes to all of the above.........add shirts unbuttoned halfway to the navel for both males and females. That's not what you see in the old photos.

[Booger Bill]

Many things. A actor, man or women with perfect cloths all new and laundered in the middle of nowhere. Swearing more than anyone normaly would. Jet contrails in the background. Going through all kinds of antics when hit by a slug instead of dropping like a poleaxed steer. Comedy over acted westerns with funny music in the background. Indians speaking better english than the queen of england. The women looking like sex kittens. Not that I dont like it, but I have seen darn few authetic old timey pictures where the women wouldnt make you back against the wall! Frankly, most of the newer actors look like the casting directors went down to the nearest welfare office and picked up the first truck load of soft looking idiots they could round up!
Years ago, (early 60s,) I was a studio cop for universal studios. Not that I knew them well, but I met and worked around many actors of that time frame. I have met a lot of the good ones like jimmy stewart, james arness, brian keith, clint walker, broderick crawford, maureen ohara, jack lord, ernest borgnien etc.
Most of them were okay to be around, some bought my lunch off the bait wagon etc. Now I read about the newer crowd being in habitual trouble, acting like spoiled brats etc. I met a few stinkers, but I will keep the names and events to myself as they could have had a bad aberation of a day at the time.
One day I was asigned to the movie, "The rare breed". I asked another worker, (probley a electrican or carpenter) where brian keith was as I knew he was one of the actors and I hadent seen him. The guy laughed at me and said, I watched you BSing with him for the last 10 minuets awhile ago! I thought he was just a extra, hadnt reconised him with a beard etc! Later I seen him and told him that. I told him I had by chance a girl friend back east who was a widow and had a son of about three years old also named brian keith! The next day he brought me a nice autographed picture of himself and "old yeller" and told me to send it to the boy. I had never hit him up for it! They are just people.

[Batman1939]

Most of the above have bothered me at various times. Especially the folks who get "knocked onto their keister" when firing some kind of rifle or shotgun.


How 'bout all the anglos in heavy makeup who are supposed to be indians (or Native Americans)? This seems to be especially prevalent in man of the earlier movies when the "love" interest was an "indian maiden". Many of those gals don't remotely resemble a Native American. Many of the newer movies are better about this; the characters seem more realistic.

[Doc Hudson]

snapping the pistol with their wrist like they're slinging the bullet from the barrel by the force of their snap

That one actually has some basis in fact. There was a time when the US horse cavalry taught that method, when shooting from horseback, although maybe not quite that exaggerated...

Try it sometime.

It was also common in the day of cap-and-ball revolvers.

Without the backswing on cocking, a Colt revolver has a nasty habit of dropping a fired percussion cap into the action binging it ot blocking the hammer from hitting the next charge.

Granted, the chopping action is unneeded in a cartridgge revolver. But habit, and training can be strong enough to make a person continue the action. If you don't believe it, ask how many folks still load only five chambers, even if their Italian SAA's have a hammer block devise installed.

[kimwcook]

What everyone else has said, plus, horses that whiney all the time. Horses don't do that. Now they will at certain times, but come on, every two minutes. Drives me crazy

Period correct clothes and wearing them appropriately. Firearms correct for the period and shooting the number of rounds they should. Props that are right, saddles, holsters, etc.. In short if it doesn't look right I have a hard time enjoying it. Same with any movie. I'm told it's entertainment, just enjoy it. Drives me nuts. Short trip, I know.

[L_Kilkenny]

Thought of a couple more......wussy town folk and when they have a guy packin a whole camp kitchen in a small pair of saddle bags.

LK

[gak]

There's a lot of blasting of the Spaghettis, but the Eastwood ones in particlar were pretty good (lip synching aside) IMO. They"re gritty, hot, sweaty, desolate, brutal, "unforgiving." Likely how much of the old west really was. You have to give Clint credit (though he likely didn't even give it a thought): don't think he ever donned a low-slung drop/leg tie "gunfighter" rig.


Still, these days--accurate though they may supposedly be--sometimes it goes too far. I don't like the "CAS" outside boots, vests and big hat look a lot of the especially cheap, straight-to-DVD types (you know, the ones that look like they're all shot with "video" in Simi or Ojai Valley) have taken on. Sometimes trying too hard to have the "correct look" plays the other direction.


The opening scene of Stewart and Fonda on the open range in the Cheyenne Social Club is just about right. No pretty boy, no extremes, no huge hats, no overly loose or overly tight fitting clothes, no "look" at all...but regular working cowboy clothes with sweat soaking through the hats from a hard day of cow punching. In other words, after a few minutes, you're not even noticing the "non-outfits" any more, which is how it should be. I too think more '66s, '76s and '73s (etc) should have been portrayed as the real guns of their era, but I'll take a whole herd of '92s (no 94s though, too much!) versus a movie spending too much time fretting on "the period-correct authentic look" and too little on the setting, characters and story.
Not very opinionated on this, am I?

[RIHMFIRE]

flaming liberal actors.......and actresses....

I can deal with rest...I have a ton of westerns..
and if I were to worry about all the inaccuracies....
I would not enjoy them as much as i do....
infact...I like looking for the screw ups!

[Chas.]

Phoney southern/Texas accents. You have to be from there to appreciate. Val Kilmer's accent as Doc Holliday in "Tombstone" was about the worst I've ever heard. I guess that's why I'm a big fan of Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones.

[JohndeFresno]

snapping the pistol with their wrist like they're slinging the bullet from the barrel by the force of their snap

Ah, yes - in the Hoppy / Range Rider / Cisco Kid days and early B-Westerns, their elbows really got a workout!

[Gun Smith]

My favorite is when EVERY bullet pings and sings even in soft dirt. I guess most sound effects men have never used a gun.
Another favorite mentioned is when the hero or villain will rack the action of his gun to scare his opponent. It is easy to hear that the gun is empty. If I was approaching a potential shoot out, I would have chambered a round an hour ago!
A point was also brought up about the use of M.92's and Colt SAA's. In the early days of film making, there wasn't much choice. Replicas were non-existant. SAA replicas only started in the 50's the M. 92's were Winchester and Tiger. And since they both chambered the 5 in 1 blank, they were the logical choice of propmen.
Flintlock and percussion locks were rarely used because of the reloading required after each shot that slowed down the film action.

[claybob86]

When a 200 and something grain bullet lifts a 200 pound man clean off the ground and flings him backward!

[claybob86]

Phoney southern/Texas accents. You have to be from there to appreciate. Val Kilmer's accent as Doc Holliday in "Tombstone" was about the worst I've ever heard. I guess that's why I'm a big fan of Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones.

Yeah, me too. Did you see "Open Range" with Duvall?

[C. Cash]

I hate it when an otherwise good western has some stupid weapon error. In Last Stand at Sabre River I thought it was really cool how Cable's wife and father in law were gunsmiths. The cartridge Colts conversions were a good bit too early, but not incredibly far fetched. Then as they are leaving for Arizona, Harry Cary Jr. hands his daughter the Spencer and says something like "This is good to a thousand yards." Still a good movie but I wish they would hire someone like me to catch such things.

PS: David Carradine in the Long Riders, toting around that Savage Single Shot with the trigger guard barrel release(ala 1980's K-Mart) was pretty silly as well, but still like that one too. And as has been noted: whiney, cowering townsfolk who get taken over by a few of the bad dudes. No way that ever would have happened. Today, yes possibly. Then, no, absolutely not.

[765x53]

Something that shows up in every western and pre-automobile era movie and always makes me smile is, grass growing in the middle of a road.

[DixieBoy]

The absolute worst for me is when six-shooters fire for ten rounds or more. That kind of thing insults everybody's intelligence, not just the buffs.

After that, freshly starched and ironed clothes on what should be working cowboys.

It's not a western, but one of my favorite movies is Braveheart. Pretty gritty, and very inspirational story. Then, at the very end, the actor who plays Hamish is charging towards the camera with his battle ax .....and the rubber blade starts wobbling. Makes me cringe.

- DixieBoy

[Joel]

Shotguns blowing massive holes in walls doors and people


I was very disappointed as a young boy when the first time a put two barrels of 00buck into an old piece of plywood, all it it did was leave 18 small holes in it instead of one massive smoking hole like I expected.

[20cows]

The best example of 19th century speech patterns I remember seeing in a western was by Strother Martin (the horse trader) in True Grit. It had the flow of natural speech, but was very different from the current fare.

[C. Cash]

Shotguns blowing massive holes in walls doors and people


I was very disappointed as a young boy when the first time a put two barrels of 00buck into an old piece of plywood, all it it did was leave 18 small holes in it instead of one massive smoking hole like I expected.

Get closer Joel! Coffee can at 10 feet is always fun and leaves a gaping hole. Don't shoot it into a very hard tree at 10 feet....and don't ask me how I know.


Since were all unloading and also talking about modern language vs. old West, I hate it when John Wayne says "caaawgidges" for cartridges. I'm pretty sure that's a Hollywood word there, unless they were originally from Boston or some such place.

[Griff]

Nuttin. I like westerns. Folks makin' them ain't the most knowledgeable folks in the world, even about the supposed genre they're trying to portray. Leastways, they tried. So, I forgive them all their sins. Gotta admit, I might not watch one that went overboard somewhere a second time... but hey, I even watched Sharon Stone in "The Quick and the Dead" twice!

"Avatar" was a dandy little western... even if the natives were a little "different" and the time period was sorta off........... at least the costumers were creative!

Archer.jpg

[firefuzz]

There's a lot of things that catch my eye in Western's, not necessarily irritate me, just notice they're wrong. I'd still rather watch a "lower" grade western than a "better" grade movie of another type. Sometimes it's just fun picking out the "there's no way's".

Rob

[JB]

I get tired of impossible shots made with rifles, handguns, and shotguns. Guys knocking someone off a roof at 75 yards with a handgun while shooting from the hip quick draw. Rifles making shots offhanded at distances the same rifles couldn't touch off a sandbagged rest. Shotguns blowing huge holes through walls and doors when in reality they'd have filled the wall or door full or shot, but not blown holes the size of basketballs.

I find it funny how two guys get into a fist fight and appear to beat each other to a pulp, but after the fight have no swollen eyes, busted noses, torn skin, etc. It's amusing how "buddies" in the movies beat each other silly, then are best buds 30 seconds after the fight.l

[Fiddler]

Geez, where to start? I have always found the real history of the Old West exciting and fascinating. To me, it never needing the "jazzing up" that Hollywood always has indulged in.
I guess one of my biggest beefs is how the stars of the movie and TV westerns are always groomed the way popular culture found attractive when said movie or TV show was produced. The greasy pompadours and clean-shaven look of the 1950's comes to mind. Nobody ever looked like the old photos, especially when it came to facial hair.
Then, there was a movie about Lewis & Clark where the two captains were wildly attracted to and constantly fighting over Sacajawea. Fred MacMurray was one of the stars.
Gimme a break!
In epic battle scenes where horses plunge to the ground when shot at, then scramble to their feet and run off while their rider lies dead, I've often wondered who was supposed to have been hit by that single shot, the rider or the horse? I've read that after every big mounted battle in the Indian and Civil Wars, there were always a lot of dead and wounded horses lying around the battlefield. You never see it in the movies. Can't some prop guy come up with a few dozen fiberglass "dead" horses for movie use?
I've heard that they used olive-skinned Italian guys to play Indians in the old movies, especially if they had a speaking role.
Weren't a lot of covered wagons pulled by oxen? All we see are horses in the movies.
I think the "mountain man" era was tremendously exciting, but there were almost no movies made about it.
Remember the TV show "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman"? That handsome, sensitive, caring, long-haired "scout" in the buckskins used to infuriate me. He was never out "scouting" or doing anything useful except hanging around town gossiping with Dr. Quinn and the rest of the ladies.
I haven't had cable or satellite TV in years, so I haven't seen the History Channel lately. But they used to drive me crazy with the reenactors they used to stage famous battles in various wars. These guys were mostly overweight 50 to 65 year-olds. While I do realize life in the trenches can age a doughboy beyond his years, this is kinda ridiculous! I suppose the only guys who have the time and money to invest in replica firearms, uniforms, and gear are old hobbyists.

[GonnePhishin]

yes, yes, and yes... Six guns shooting 10 or 12 times with no reloads

[Buck Elliott]

Elmer Keith spoke (wrote) of soldiers' being taught that "chopping" motion to fire more accurately form the back of a moving horse. Maybe not THE most efficient way to go -- it may take some learning -- but try it sometime while mounted, and see how well you do... my guess is that you'll do better that way than trying to ride a fractious pony and keeping the shooting arm extended and steady...

and yes, the original reason for that method comes from the old cap-and-ball days, when the gun was flung back to allow cap fragments to fall clear, and avoid tying up the revolver.

[slimster]

Not really a major issue, but I've invested a lot of sweat in digging holes in my time, and always wondered how the hero can grab a small shovel from his saddlebag, dig a grave, have it filled back in, maybe rocks on top, and sometimes even some kind of cobbled up grave marker--in about the time his side-kick or femme fatale has the saddlebags unpacked and a fire going...without even breaking a sweat!

[JohndeFresno]

Elmer Keith spoke (wrote) of soldiers' being taught that "chopping" motion to fire more accurately form the back of a moving horse. Maybe not THE most efficient way to go -- it may take some learning -- but try it sometime while mounted, and see how well you do... my guess is that you'll do better that way than trying to ride a fractious pony and keeping the shooting arm extended and steady...

and yes, the original reason for that method comes from the old cap-and-ball days, when the gun was flung back to allow cap fragments to fall clear, and avoid tying up the revolver.

Now THAT is interesting. Another gem from Buck.

[cas]

When it's summer time in Texas/Arizona/New Mexico etc. , yet everyone's dressed like it's October in Maine.


Contrails are always good for a chuckle in the older flicks.

[papasan]

Well, it may not turn me off, but it bugs me, and makes me "cringe". Like we all have seen the scene where the dude rips open a box of rifles on a
buckboard. Not only should the guy who packed them in a pile be hanged,
but also the guy who tosses it back in with a clunk. Must have been a lot of rifles in the west, full of "dings" and "dents"!

papasan