150 grain or 170 grain 30-30 for whitetail

[bcraig]

Hi,I just picked up an older angle eject without external safety and thinking bout killing a deer with it next year.I have killed a lot of deer with a lot of different calibers and guns but never hunted with a 30-30.Curious as to what would be the better load for whitetails at 50 to maybe 200 yards ? 150 or 170 gr
I am not going to reload for the caliber and the factory loads readily available to me are the Remington Corelockt and Federal Power shok .
Thanks for the input,Craig

[Hobie]

Yes, either one depending on who is talking. I use the 170 as it is accurate in all my .30-30s and my one load works in all of them.

[Windjammer]

I preferr the 150 gr winchester hollow point. The 170 goes right thru the lungs and does not do enough damage for a quick kill.

Both of my sons and I used 30-30s for a long time.

[HEAD0001]

30-30 ammo is relatively cheap(ya right). Or it was a few years ago. I would buy 3 or 4 different boxes and see which one shoots the best. I have heard a few guys say they really like the Federal Fusion. However I have never shot any. But then I reload my ammo. I would shoot whatever is the most accurate. Any good 150 or 170 will put a deer down. So I would go with the most accurate. Just an opinion. Tom.

[jlchucker]

Either one. 20 grains isn't a whole lot of difference, in spite of what some may think. Just zero your rifle for the bullet you're going to use and good luck.

[20cows]

Though I prefer a cast heavier bullet (my mold throws a 164 gr), if you are going to stay with factory ammo and anticipate shots out to 200 yards, I'd recommend the 150 grainers. 200 yards with a 30-30 is at the ragged edge for most shooters with an open sighted levergun. The 30-30 is still definately lethal out there though.

[Borregos]

Try both and whichever the gun likes best use that one

[bcraig]

Hi, I appreciate the input so far. as far as accuracy goes I dont think it will make any difference whether the load shoots into 1 or 2 or 3 inches at 100 yards as even if it shoots lets say into 6 inches at 200 I would still be hitting within 3 inches of point of aim. What I am more concerned about is how the bullet acts when it hits the deer. which one seems to put deer down the fastest on average.
I will be using either an old Leupold 3x with a dot or an Leupold M8 4x with duplex.
Thanks,Craig

[20cows]

I don't think there is a definate difference in lethality of the two, or the debate would have ended long ago. The 150 shoots a "little" flatter.

[Modoc ED]

As said above, buy a couple/three boxes of ammo of weight and see which shoots better in your rifle. If you're going to be using iron sights stick with one weight so as to keep from having to adjust you sights all the time.

Despite what was said above, a 170gr bullet will open up/expand just fine on deer sized game.

I use 170gr but then again I hunt not only deer but elk too with my 30-30s and I like a heavier bullet for them.

Lots of good advice given above.

[Griff]

I believe I've shot 5 Texas whitetails with Federal 150 HyShok or whatever they call'em... all have been thru n' thrus. Including one @ a measured 238 yards; probably luck that NO bones were hit, but even if it'd hit a rib, I believe it'd still been lethal.

It's a "non-dicussion" item for me... shoot whichever is more accurate in YOUR gun.

[rjohns94]

I used a 170grain factory ammo bullet on a ram down in Texas. I'm thinking it was a relative to the black one Joe was discussing, even though not the same breed. I hit that Ram darn near perfect and it took three hours to track it down, we found it standing in the shade waiting to be dispensed. A second shot was needed at close range.

on the same day I used a 150 gr bullet at longer distance to shoot a black buck and it performed very well. I would use the 150grainers now if I had a choice (or a 30-30). good advice above on checking out both and see what you rifle likes. I think the 170 grainers just push right on through whilet the 150s do so also but expand a bit better.

[86er]

I've tested and observed dozens of animals shot with 30-30. I have yet to make a comfortable decision as to what weight is better. For a long time my observations were that 170's were more likely to exit in a greater variety of presentations. I liked that. More recently, the exits on 170's are there but I paid more attention to how far the deer went before going down. It seems the 150's tend to put them down quicker with a comparable shot (range/placement). I had absolutely erradict performance from the 1st generation Hornady LeverEvolution that is 160 grain (and personally will never use them again). As a professional hunter, the 30-30 is one round that has frustrated me because the bullet performance I've observed is so inconsistent. The cartridge is a killer of game, especially deer there is no doubt. But one day a 170 Core Lokt expands well and knocks down a deer pretty impressively, the next day a 170 gr Core Lokt from the same stand/same range/same rifle/similar deer punches a hole through and the deer goes a long way with a sparse blood trail. Granted, either way, dead deer. Specifically on deer I've personally observed that if you shoot behind the leg/shoulder the 150's tend to have a quicker effect at 100-125 yds. If you are a point of shoulder shooter the difference between 150 and 170's effect becomes less distinguishable. RJohns94 and I hunted a feral goat that weighed 150 pounds or so. He hit it right on the shoulder with a Federal Power Point in, I believe 170 grain. We found the goat hours later still alive and well and finished the job. The first shot turned on the shoulder bone and travelled under the skin to exit. It was a non-lethal wound although the shot's impact would have been considered a textbook point of shoulder shot. How did that happen? Less than a week later I grabbed the 30-30 that happened to be the rifle I had on hand and let a client put a 170 gr Speer into an aoudad ram that was hit poorly with an arrow. The point of shoulder shot dropped the 175 pound sheep in its tracks and the leg bone was shattered as was the scapular, causing severe damage to the heart and lungs from bullet as well as bone fragments. I could go on and on. I personally settled on 170 gr Speer bullets for two reasons: my 1948 Win 94 does not have enough sight movement to lower the 150's point of impact enough, and the Speer bullets seem to be the most consistent in performance. The one's I've recovered regardless of the animal all look pretty much the same. When they exit the holes show evidence of expansion. My two friends that have been using a 30-30 alot, in one case to cull axis deer doe at the Lagos Ranch where they shot 40 of them, concluded that the Winchester 150 Supreme Silvertip (available as a component or in the Winchester factory ammo) produced the quickest knock down of deer and worked best at 150-175 yards in particular. They shot 6 or 8 axis with 170 Core Lokts, 170 Federal Power Point and 150 Win silver box also. If you can get access to Rem and Fed you should make sure you can sight in properly with the ammo and give it a try to make your own conclusions. Now if you will use the rifle for other critters intentionally or incidentally you need to figure out what they will be. A coyote or a bear? An elk or a hog? I can give you data from scores of bear that demonstrates what works best if you're interested. Best of luck with the new rifle!

[JB]

Either one shouldn't make much difference either way. The 30-30 is pretty much worthless as a deer cartridge.

Just kidding about that last part. I just wanted to get people's blood pumping I do agree about 150 or 170 being equally effective. I think more could depend upon the particular construction of the bullet than the weight. Not all 150 grains are created equal!

[L_Kilkenny]

as far as accuracy goes I dont think it will make any difference whether the load shoots into 1 or 2 or 3 inches at 100 yards as even if it shoots lets say into 6 inches at 200 I would still be hitting within 3 inches of point of aim.

I'll leave the 150 vs. 170 debate up to the .30-30 experts but IMO this statement is wrong. There is no reason to head out into the field without the most accurate round available. Under field condition 1" groups turn into 3" groups and 3" groups turn into 5" groups pretty darn quick. While a deer is a pretty good size target it doesn't take much to hit a little too far back, a little low or a little to far forward. Even more so when you are stretching the range of a cartridge. A 3" gun at 100 yards isn't necessarily a 6" gun at 200 yards.

I'd take a 2 moa gun over a 3 moa gun/cartridge combo anyday of the week and twice on Sundays and do whatever I could to get the best accuracy possible. Even if it meant using a bullet weight or design that was not optimal. A good hit with marginal (not poor) bullet is better than a marginal hit with a great bullet IMO.

LK

[cshold]

FWIW: this is what I use in my 30-30.
But I'm also a very big fan of the .243 Win. for deer.
Guess I just like mine coming in light, fast and hot.

[2X22]

I like heavy and slow.

170's for me.

2x22

[horsesoldier03]

I have taken numerous deer with my 30-30 and my daughter took her first deer with it as well. ALL but my first has been a short order affair. The first deer I shot, I failed to do my part and shot him a little far back. We tracked him down and finally found him, about 100 yrds from where he was shot. The rest have all been less than 20 yrds and 3 of them dropped in their tracks. 150s and 170s are both effective.

Like 86er stated, if you want to anchor your buck and not have to look for him, shoot for the point of the shoulder and take out the shoulder. It will put lots of bone fragment into the heart and lungs. If you shoot a deer with a double lung shot, chances are you will be tracking him a ways. Especially if you dont wait 30 min or so after the shot before you go look for him.

Personally my favorite shot on a deer is with him standing head on and putting a nice low shot into the brisket. It has always resulted in a heart shot for me and 3 shots like this have all resulted in IMMEDIATE drops where the deers legs look like they just gave out beneath him and he was DRT (Dead Right There)!

[Lanyard Stretcher]

I thought 30/30s bounced off deer?

I have been messing around with a T/C Contender Carbine with pointy bullets. I've come to the conclusion that with a 30/30, 150 and 170 grain FPs really don't loose that much to the pointy slugs. Once I shoot up my spitzer I'm going to use 170 gr. Corelokts for everything, Deer, Elk, Bear and Coyotes.

Mike

[win38-55]

I like the 170 grain core locks. They seem to be the most accurate round out of my Marlin 336ss.
My hunting partner swears by the 150's The deer he shot last year was shot with a 150 grain, Dropped
in it's track and never took another step. I do not think the deer will ever notice a 20 grain difference either way
Shoot what you like.

[AJMD429]

What I am more concerned about is how the bullet acts when it hits the deer. which one seems to put deer down the fastest on average.
Thanks,Craig

I think it would have MUCH more to do with the bullet construction, than the bullet weight. The small difference in terminal performance between identically-built bullets in the two weights would be more than offset by the spectrum of available bullet-constructions within either weight.

If you're going to use factory loads, choose from their 'premium' bullet loadings if you want, but it would be hard to go wrong with your basic jacketed soft point.

If you're going to reload, I'd figure out which weight your gun shoots best with, using cheaper bullets of the general type (lead vs. jacketed) you plan on using to hunt with. Then I'd re-titrate the load using whatever premium bullet (...those darned 'regular' ones are the ones that bounce off deer... ) strikes your fancy.

[kaschi]

A recent poll of dead deer taken with both loads said bullet weight was not a deciding factor!

[BlueStateSaint]

A recent poll of dead deer taken with both loads said bullet weight was not a deciding factor!

Couldn't agree more. Dead is dead. Where one places the bullet in the animal is far more important.

[FWiedner]

I use 170gr soft-point ammo for 99% of the hunting I do with my .30-30's. On both deer and hogs. Better and cleaner penetration.

IMO, many 150gr loads cause what I consider to be unacceptable damage and meat loss.

I never use HPs.

[twobit]

This is not directed at any one response but just in general,

If you shoot a deer with a double lung shot, chances are you will be tracking him a ways. Especially if you dont wait 30 min or so after the shot before you go look for him.

I shoot hogs with a Model 1873 in .44 WCF 30 yards later dead hog.
I shoot hogs with a Remington .22-250 with 55 grain Vmax. Ear shot, 5 feet, dead hog.
I shoot deer with a bow and arrow. Heart / lung shot 40 yards later dead deer.

It is so much more about shot selection and placement than what you hit them with.
If that little old arrow will kill him in no time then hitting a deer with 1500 foot pounds of
energy from a 150 gr bullet sure as heck ought to make him go to sleep if you do it right.
If you can't shoot 3 inch groups with sand bags at the range at 100 yards then there is no
reason to think about shooting at a deer beyond that when you are excited. It won't be the
bullet's fault that you are still looking for the wounded deer that was just wasted.

Find the round that you can comfortably shoot very accurately. Practice throughout the year.
Plan your hunt to fit to your shooting capabilities. And if a nice deer is out there at 200 yards
let him go instead of kicking yourself because you made a lousy shot and blamed the bullet
for poor performance.

The game animal deserves the best from you when you pull the trigger.
Michael

[Lawyer Daggit]

The reputation of the 94 as a deer gun was developed with the 170 gn load.