Cast Bullet Questions

[slimster]

Guys, I've about decided that I would like to get into bullet casting. The caliber that I would like to begin with is the 30-30. I'm interested in creating bullets that would be suitable for both reduced plinking loads and factory equivalent loads for hunting use. I kind of like the Lyman 311041 173 gr. for a "heavy", and the Saeco 316 150 gr. for a lighter bullet. Both are gas ck. designs. If I understand correctly, it is ok to use them w.o. checks for the reduced loads, and they will work fine, and I wont have to purchase separate plain base molds. Am I correct in this thinking? Are these good molds in y'alls experiences? Thanks, Slim.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I also like the 311041. It is just a SUPER bullet. Easy to cast and very accurate in all but one of my 15+ .30-30`s. The holdout likes the RCBS 150 gr bullet better ( but not by a great amount). Ranch dogs and others are good also but testing is the only way to find out.
In my opinion a GC bullet design is best shot with a gas check
and PB bullets are made to be shot at lower velocity.
The 311041 shot at low velocity can be a tack driver as can the RCBS 150. This target from the .308 MX at 50yd.

.30-30 at 50yd.

Have fun!

[TedH]

Although some folks claim to do ok with leaving the checks off, I never have. I use plain base molds for plinkers and gas check molds when I want to turn up the heat.

[Lefty Dude]

I always put the shoes on my bullets. Don't like to shot them barefooted.

[txpete]

Although some folks claim to do ok with leaving the checks off, I never have. I use plain base molds for plinkers and gas check molds when I want to turn up the heat.

+1

[jlchucker]

Although some folks claim to do ok with leaving the checks off, I never have. I use plain base molds for plinkers and gas check molds when I want to turn up the heat.

Same here, Ted. But that having been said, there's not a deer living that I would hesitate to shoot with a plainbase molded bullet, poking along at 1500-1600 fps or so. In the woods where I hunt, a long shot is 100 yards or less, and I doubt if what I shoot would recognize the 200-300 fps when hit with a 44 magnum out of a rifle, or a 35 Remington, or a 45-70. I haven't tried cast in my 7mm-08 yet, but only because I've not gone out and bought molds for it. For that caliber, the first one would probably be a gascheck model. If any of you guys have checked the prices of jacketed bullets lately, the home-cast ones are looking better and better all of the time.

[Marc]

I like the 150 RCBS too. I have shot groups that approach those posted by Chuck 100 yd with a couple of 94's. I have never tried the 311041. I have a Saeco Truncated cone 165 grainer that shoots like the RCBS 150. It isn't really a levergun bullet because the flat nose is small but I use it for match shooting and single load them. Not recommending it just that it shows that Saeco makes excellent molds. The 30-30 is an excellent cartridge for getting your feet wet casting.

I have never had any success shooting GC bullets without GC's either. My light plinker is a Lyman 311316 that casts at 115 gr. Lee makes a similar mold that I have heard shoots well.

[Sixgun]

Slim,
Rule of thumb---Keep it simple

There's not much difference between the 150 or the 170 grain. Remember, for hunting, neither of these bullets are good for much more than 200 yards. For target & busting steel, or just having fun with rocks, especially at long range, (200-500 or so) you will be better off with the ballistic coefficient of the 170 grain.

Pick out the 170 grainer of your choice and size to at least .309.

Not trying to confuse you but you ought to see that the 220 grain Lyman does out of a 30-30 out to 1000 yards.

Gas checks are a hit or miss when not using them from velocities from about 1100-1600. Sometimes the accuracy is there, sometimes its not. Gas checks are a must for velocities much past 1600, depending on condition of the bore and crown.

When gas checks are left off, accuracy is there (in my close to 40 years of exper.) IF.............the velocity is below the speed of sound. (1150) As I'm no rocket scientist, I can't explain it, but when using light charges of Unique in any of my dash numbered cartridges without gas checks, they shoot! ------------Sixgun

[slimster]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I have never cast a bullet yet, so I do have a lot to learn, and this input is a big help! I am not much for paper punching, I'm more into busting stumps, clods, or other targets of opportunity of various sizes, and at random ranges. I wanted to be able to reproduce the two std. rounds, 150 and 170 at factory equivalent vel., yet was hoping to be able to use one or both of them at around 1500 fps, and without a check, for a plinking load. I'm beginning to think a better idea would be to purchase a separate mold. Anybody have a suggestion for a good inexpensive 100-125 gr. plain base mold for economical plinking? Thanks!

[Catshooter]

Slimster,

The best way is to try. No one can answer for your rifle but your rifle. If I was starting out I would buy the 311041 and try it. Shoot it with full loads, shoot it with light loads. See what happens. Jacketed bullets are much more predictable than cast.

If you can, slug your bore and then try for a bullet one or two thousanths over that.

You can also go here:http://castboolits.gunloads.com for everything you'd ever want to find out about the craft. Good people, too. Good luck!


Cat

[Charles]

It isn't plain base but Lee C309-113 enjoys a good reputation as a light weight cast bullet that is very effective on small game. The Cast Boolit boys call it the Lee Soup Can.

[2X22]

Another vote toward the 311041 for an overall shooting, whether hunting or plinking. If you don't want to use a GC, use a PB instead. Don't try to shoot a GC model without a gascheck.

2x22

[Sixgun]

Funny thing, I just read in a few of my old Lyman manuals from the 1940's to early 50's and in each they state that "bullets can be satisfactory used without gas checks if the velocities are kept under 1600 fps.

I still say its a hit or miss---sometimes they work, sometimes they don't-------------sounds like some people that are sneaking across the border. ---------------------Sixgun

[Hobie]

"Ok" as in "safe" to use GC bullets sans GC, yes. "Ok" as in "accurate", well, maybe not so much. Mike Venturino recently mentioned this very thing and said that he had NEVER gotten acceptable acuracy from a GC bullet without the GC.

[jlchucker]

It isn't plain base but Lee C309-113 enjoys a good reputation as a light weight cast bullet that is very effective on small game. The Cast Boolit boys call it the Lee Soup Can.

Yeah, the Soup Can has gotten plenty of praise all right. I've never tried it, but I have tried the Lyman 311008, originally designed for the 32-20 but is often sized for, and used in, the 30-30. It's a great plinker. Since you've brought up the Soup Can and the Cast Boolit boys, they've got a bunch of group buys on their site for molds and other stuff. One poster even sells gaschecks of his own manufacture in about every caliber--for about half of what you'd pay for the name-brand versions.

[jlchucker]

"Ok" as in "safe" to use GC bullets sans GC, yes. "Ok" as in "accurate", well, maybe not so much. Mike Venturino recently mentioned this very thing and said that he had NEVER gotten acceptable acuracy from a GC bullet without the GC.

That's been my experience as well, Hobie. "Safe" yes, but not quite minute-of-angle groupers. There are molds out there on the market in plain-base configuration that really do shoot well, though--once Slimster dives headlong into the world of casting. Nobody who takes that up ever really does end up with only one mold. An accurate plain-base plinker would be something like the Lyman 311008, at around 115 grains, sized to the optimum fit for the rifle that he has, IMO. Like you say about GC bullets sans GC "well, maybe not so much".

[missionary5155]

Good morning
+1 on the simplicity route.
Get the 170 grain mold. It will do everything you desire.
Shooting a GC design Without the bandade depends on several factors.
How much pressure are you going to put on the bullet base ?
Is the rearmost band thick enough to support the pressure ?
Are you sizing the bullet to bore size or to Throat diameter + .001 - .002 ?
Are you using a slower type rifle powder or a Faster type to propel this Bare bottom bullet ?
Bore condition .. is it near perfect with no tight spots, no rough spots ?
If you are not up to paying close attention to details then just put on a GC.. But lots of fellers have been shooting Bare GC bullets for a long time. There is a site called CASTBOOLITS.GUNLOADS where friendly castboolit shooters deal with issues and find solutions.
A GC design without the GC is no different than a Heel type bullet and the .22 long rifle is still out there.

[Newtmaker]

If one has a large supply of cast bullets with a flat base and an edge bevel, can gas checks be added? If so, what do you need to add them?

Walt

[jlchucker]

If one has a large supply of cast bullets with a flat base and an edge bevel, can gas checks be added? If so, what do you need to add them?

Walt

Good morning Walt,

I once pondered this question myself, and gave it a (brief) try. I ended up with a spoiled gascheck and a bullet with a gouged lower end. I figured it to be impractical, and resolved then and there to use a gascheck mold if I wanted a gascheck bullet. the gaschecks you get today, for the most part, crimp on after being seated squarely on the bullet base. I use only plainbase bullets in my 38 special/357 handguns, and use both kinds in my 38/357 Rossi Carbine. I won't buy a bevel-base bullet any more--unless I get a good price on some that I can melt up into ingots and use for casting. I will buy flatbase cast bullets, in bulk, for use in my handguns only. Others may have had better luck squeezing a gascheck onto a bevelbase bullet, though--and I'll defer to their expertise.

[Newtmaker]

Thanks JL. Makes a lot of sense to me.
I think I will look for some with gas checks already attached. I don't do any casting and doubt that I will as I just don't see the need with my limited use of lead bullets.

Walt

[1886]

311041 will serve double duty. I have had many .30-30 rifles come through my hands. They all shot #311041 very well. 2495 is a very capable powder. 1886.

[jlchucker]

Newtmaker, I hope none of us said anything to discourage you from casting--least of all me. There are some commercial casters out there that sell bullets with gaschecks on them--I know of one guy in Brattleboro VT that is a Lyman distributor and runs his own casting business. Send me an email an I'll respond with his address. You may want to think it over, though. Before you give up the idea, do what Missionary5155 suggests and go on that website he mentioned. This one, and that Cast Boolits one are two of my favorites. You'd be surprised at some of the results you get with carefully prepared handloads. You probably won't save any more money because you'd be loading and shooting more. And don't let anyone kid you that casts bullets aren't effective on game--big or small. How many huge bison herds have you seen running across the plains thousands at a time lately? Nobody had jacketed bullets and whizzybang shortymags back in the days when those critters were plentiful.