OT - Rifle Survey results

[86er]

In conjuction with an outdoor range we had the clerks offer a survey to any shooter between 18 and 35 years old with a bolt action rifle for deer hunting. The business requires a sign in sheet that asks your age, type rifle action and caliber. The clerks were prompted to ask if they were sighting-in or practicing for deer hunting. If they returned the survey, they got a $3 off coupon for the next range session ($20 for 3 hours regular). 100 out of 146 were returned. The questions required fill-in answers (not multiple choice). Not every respondent answered every question. Below is a summary of the answers:

Why did you choose a bolt action rifle over other action types?

1- ability to put a scope or it came with a scope -51
2- came in caliber I wanted -24
3- friend or relative has one -22
4- more accurate than other kind of rifles - 3

What other action type did you consider if at all?
1 - none -77
2 - semi auto -18
3- single shot -4
4- lever action -1

Now that you have a bolt action rifle what other action type would you like if cost was not a factor?
1- another bolt -49
2- lever action -24
3- semi auto - 23
4- single shot -4

If you have a shotgun, what type action is it?
1- semi auto - 57
3- don't have a shotgun
2- over/under - 12
3- pump - 9
4- single shot -1
5 side by side - 1

If you have a .22 rimfire rifle, what action type is it?
1- semi auto - 61
2- bolt -27
3- pump -11
4- dont have a .22 rifle

How far will be your limit to shots on deer? Round off to nearest 50 yds.
1- 300 yards -20
2- 500 yards -18
3- 150 yards- 13
4- 250 yards -13
5- 400 yards- 12
6- 200 yards -11
7- 350 yards - 10
8 - 100 yards - 10
9 -600 yards -7

What are you sighting in your bullet point of impact to be at 100 yards in inches (include half inches)?
1 - 3 " high - 45
2- 1" high - 30
3- 1.5" high - 10
4 - Dead on - 10
5-2" high - 5

How many round should a rifle for deer hunting hold ?
1 - 5 - 50
2- 3 - 25
3- 6 - 15
4- 2 - 5
5- 10 - 4
6 - 1 - 1

How much did you spend on your rifle (not including scope or total price if it came with a scope)? Round off.
1- $500 - 55
2- $300 - 38
3- $400 - 5
4- $750 - 1
5 - $350 - 1

What kind of accuracy do you expect for a 3 shot group at 100 yds with your rifle?

1- 1" groups - 67
2 - 1 1/2" groups - 16
3 - less than an inch groups - 9
4- 2" groups - 7
5 - less than 3" groups - 1

When you think of a bolt action rifle what descriptive words immediately come to mind?
Long range - backpacking- quality - precision - versatile - power - anything

When you think of a single shot rifle what type of descriptive words immediately come to mind?
varmints - muzzleloaders - stand hunting - long range - beginners - thompson center

When you think of a semi auto rifle what type of descriptive words immediately come to mind?
military - ARs- Browning - machine gun - M16 - plinking - not legal for hunting

When you think of a lever action rifle what type of descriptive words immediately come to mind?
cowboys - fast shooting - old timey - red and black plaid - 30/30 - Winchester - deer rifle

One respondent took the time to write the following in the comments lines (of interest to this forum) :
"On a show called Trophy Quest the host was going to use a lever action 3030 to hunt all the North American game. He used it on a few episodes but then it faded out. They changed the name of the show now and he doesn't use the 3030 any more on the show. I was going to get one because I think they are cool but the show proved to me that it is not the most versatile rifle for the money so I went with a bolt action".

Other comments:
"All guides use a bolt action so that convinced me"

"Ammo is cheaper for bolt actions"

"Bolt actions are much more accurate than any other kind of rifle"

"The gun store has mostly bolt actions"

"Only bolt actions come with scope already on them"

"Bolt actions are cheaper than other kinds"

[kimwcook]

Interesting.

[deerwhacker444]

Interesting survey....!

So,..if my math is right,...25 out of 100 people would possibly sling bullets 500 yards or further.

That's a scary thought...!

[TedH]

I'm not surprised with the survey results. The majority of "hunters" are not gun freaks.

[piller]

I wonder if those people who think they will shoot out to 500 yards truly realize what the ballistics are for their caliber at that range. I doubt that many of them do. I know there are some folks who can and do shoot well at that distance, but under field conditions I don't think that the average deer hunter who goes to a range 3 times a year or less can do it safely.

[Chas.]

I'm not surprised with the survey results. The majority of "hunters" are not gun freaks.

Amen. For some, a box of 20 will last 2-3 seasons.

[deerwhacker444]

I wonder if those people who think they will shoot out to 500 yards truly realize what the ballistics are for their caliber at that range. I doubt that many of them do. I know there are some folks who can and do shoot well at that distance, but under field conditions I don't think that the average deer hunter who goes to a range 3 times a year or less can do it safely.

I'll admit,..I really didn't know either. I've been prepping for an elk hunt next month and have been shooting and practicing. My load that gives me the best performance is not a barn-burner. It's a .277 Barnes TSX moving along at 2700 fps. At 500 yards, the math says I'll be right at 4 ft low.... I would have never guessed that it would die off that quickly. Haven't practiced at 500 and don't plan on shooting that far, just found it was interesting.

[Blaine]

Some time spent sitting on a stump on a clear cut with a range finder is very educational.

[Batman1939]

Blaine, you're right on the mark with the rangefinder comment. It's very difficult to accurately judge range under field conditions (without one) and most hunters can't do it will. That's an argument for flat-shooting (high-velocity) calibers for any kind of distance shooting as it allows for "some" error in judging distance. In my view, those very long shots (500 yds) are unethical for the majority of hunters.

Kind of interesting survey results though.

[Ysabel Kid]

I'm not surprised with the survey results. The majority of "hunters" are not gun freaks.

When did I miss us going from "nuts" to "freaks"?!?

[TedH]

Nuts, freaks, cranks, it all means the same thing. I suppose we could be more pc, and call ourselves "firearm enthusiasts".

[Marlin32]

I just shake my head. 500 yards? 600 yards? Evidently a bunch of Navy Seals were sighting in rifles that day. It takes serious practice to shoot an animal, not targets at anything over 300yards. AND you need practice to shoot at 200 yards and out.

I believe the caliber issue. BLR took care of some of that.
Never saw the show with the 30/30 shooting game all over.
"30/30" not the most versatile" Well, Duh, anyone ever say it was?

I have an idea though, if this site and maybe 86'er, and a few others who do ammo or firearm/hunting related businesses, want to produce and sponser a TV show with me running around North America taking every game with a 32 Special, I am in!!! I have already cut a commercial, so I am in the "biz"
Lets start season one with "Whitetail in Nebr" then Mule deer in Nebr, then elk in any state, move on to moose, them a hog show, then maybe an exotic or two or three, then we can zip down to South America maybe for a Red Stag show. That is good start.

Well, that is a start. Let me know who is interested in producing and sponsoring.

[awp101]

I'm not surprised with the survey results. The majority of "hunters" are not gun freaks.

When did I miss us going from "nuts" to "freaks"?!?

C'mon YK, let yer freak flag fly!

[Old Ranger]

Interesting study. I think that most hunters will use a bolt gun. Many in my area are into the short magnums now a days. And it is true that most gun shops have more bolt guns that any other style. The most on the shelf surely equals the most sold. That's common logic. If it's in the latest issue of a gun magazine. If it's touted as being the newest and best to take deer or game, it's the most sought out in the stores. If a "gun writter" says it's the best thing since sliced bread, then it will sell like hotcakes. That's called marketing...


Pump action centerfires are rare.
Auto loaders are usually looked upon as "assault rifles" by the common hunter.
Single shots are viewed as for the nostalgia or blackpowder folks.
Leverguns are out there, but not as many as years ago.

The above is just my views on the current hunter/weapon choice. Now I hunt with a .45-70 Marlin Guide Gun and have no trouble dropping anything I get in my crosshairs. When I bow hunt, I use vintage Wing recurves and cedar shafts that I build myself. Shucks, I even forge my own broadheads, so I suppose I'm an oldball oldtimer then.... I don't buy into the hype of the gun mags. I buy into what works, for me at least.....I'm still looking for a nice old Marlin 336 in .32Spl. though.

That's my two cents worth.

Wade

[Paul105]

Very interesting responses, particularly those relating to shooting distance.

Several years ago, my son and I were hunkered down in front of a couple of small pine trees on a hillside of scattered pine and sagebrush. We had been there for an hour or so, watching elk move slowly thru an area we call the fingers – intermittent finger like open areas surrounded by timber. The hillside we were on and the “fingers” are separated by a small creek drainage. It was 300 yards (lasered) from our position to the creek bottom and over a thousand yards to the top of the ridge on the other side. It was blowing like crazy (not a steady wind, but gusting and swirling) -- really poor conditions for long range shooting. There was a rag horn bull moving in and out of the fingers right at 400 yards – the other elk were scattered and above the bull. My son was trying to figure out how to put a stalk on the bull when I caught some movement out of the corner
of my eye. Sure enough, another hunter was working his way across the open sagebrush hill directly towards our position. He stopped to talk and spotted a cow elk about 2/3 of the way up the opposite ridge. He said “I wish my son was here, he has a cow tag and could shoot that cow from here” – that cow was a lasered 900 yards away.

Without a laser range finder, most folks are poor judges of actual distance. Further, they lack the equipment, knowledge and skill to execute long range shots.

[dr walker]

Good job Joe. Are you putting all this information together for an upcoming project?

[Markbo]

I am curious, and I think it will help with all that data - where was all this gathered? Texas? Colorado? Zambia? Mars? What city too... I am pretty darned familiar with all the shooting ranges anywhere near where I live and ONE (other than any on private land of course) that has a 600 yard range and you have to prove you can shoot at 300 before they will even let you try at 600.

[olyinaz]

I am curious, and I think it will help with all that data - where was all this gathered? Texas? Colorado? Zambia? Mars? What city too... I am pretty darned familiar with all the shooting ranges anywhere near where I live and ONE (other than any on private land of course) that has a 600 yard range and you have to prove you can shoot at 300 before they will even let you try at 600.

I think they meant shoot in the field. Don't think it had anything to do with the shooting facility. ??

Oly

[Markbo]

Oly... realize that the data was collected at shooting range and the distance question was specific about

How far will be your limit to shots on deer?

. I asked to know where this info was gathered so I could determine where the hunters would be hunting.

I just mentioned my information to show how hard it would be for anyone to actually practice at those ranges. By 86ers numbers, there were a substantial amount of shooters that think shooting out to 300 yds+ on deer is within their range... I'd be willing to bet good money darned few of them ever practice shooting that far, let alone shoot at game that far off. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe wherever they are, they all shoot 30/30s at 600 yards. I know I don't. I use a laser range finder a LOT because my estimates in the field are not always accurate... the longer the distance, the more room for error. I know that shooting off of a bench with a rest and bags I can hit prairie dog pups at 300 yds all day with a .223. Move them out to 500 yds and the hit percentage goes down to miss way, way more often that hit. The furthest I have ever even shot at a whitetail was 250 laser ranged yards. Biggest deer I have ever shot. Dropped him on the spot. I was shaking so badly I actually had to put my gun down to take some deep breaths before shooting because the cross hairs would not stay within the body.

Move that out past 400 yards and it would be a tiny target indeed. Big difference in heart rate and adrenaline when a deer is in the cross hairs compared to a priarie dog.

[86er]

Range was 1 1/2 hrs north of NYC

[darkwater]

When you think of a lever action rifle what type of descriptive words immediately come to mind?
cowboys - fast shooting - old timey - red and black plaid - 30/30 - Winchester - deer rifle

What does "red and black plaid" have to do with leverguns...do the Scots have a thing for leverguns?

[Markbo]

Range was 1 1/2 hrs north of NYC

Now that is a surprise right there now.

[Bloodhound]

I was reading through the data, when it hit me...Every big game animal I have ever taken has been with a Lever...The first doe was with a borrowed Winchester 94 in 30-30...then The buck with the borrowed Marlin 30-30, then 2 cow elk with my Winchester 88 in .308 then a Buck with my Winchester 88 in .284, then the Bucks with the 88 in .308 then the antilope with the 88 in .243...the .32 has been out but hasn't taken any big game just coyotes...

I have bolt actions...but the Levers are all I have ever had in my hands when the shot presents itself...

Levers rule....for me

[awp101]

When you think of a lever action rifle what type of descriptive words immediately come to mind?
cowboys - fast shooting - old timey - red and black plaid - 30/30 - Winchester - deer rifle

What does "red and black plaid" have to do with leverguns...do the Scots have a thing for leverguns?

Red and black plaid coats/jackets seem to have been popular with hunters and outdoorsmen from the late 40s through at least the 60s. I think the guy in the picture in the thread about rabbit hunting that was posted within the past week has a plaid shirt/jacket on.

There used to be a show on the History Channel about trains (you know, back when they actually ran shows about HISTORY?) and I think the footage from the 50s even showed many of those guys wearing it.

I don't know WHY, but I don't recall many pics from that era where there wasn't at least one person wearing some variation of the red and black plaid.

[damienph]

I'm not surprised with the survey results. The majority of "hunters" are not gun freaks.

Amen. For some, a box of 20 will last 2-3 seasons.

In 1991 I met a guy that later became a very good friend. Early in our friendship, I was at his house and saw that he had some absolutely beautiful whitetail mounts in his home office. I asked him what kind of rifle he shot them with. He replied that he had a 30-06. Ok, but what kind? "Umm, I think it's a Marlin".

It turned out to be a sporterized 1917 Enfield with an old Redfield Widefield 3x9 scope. He had only fired it 9 times; twice to see if it was sighted in, seven times on one shot kills. He would sit in his truck at the edge of a hay meadow on his in-laws farm. When the right buck wondered over, he set down his coffee, eased out of his truck and shot his deer. He always filled his tag by 9am on opening day.

He wasn't allowed to let anyone else hunt on his in-laws ground.

His interest switched to golf around 1995 and to my knowledge he never did finish his one box of 20.