Range Report - 86 40-82- "Number of 86's by caliber on pg 2"

[geobru]

Last month I shot this group at 200 yards with my 86. It was 3.25" but was 2' low.



Last week, I went to the range to see if I could get the gun dialed in at 200 yards. It was clear and about 35 degrees with gusty winds that pushed the bullets around a bit.

I first shot this target at 100 yards. It isn't the best I have shot, but at 2.62", it's not too bad.



Then I cranked the Lyman tang sight up 3 turns and shot this target. It is 6.25", which I was pretty well pleased with because it was on target at 200 yards. Next time I will try a target that is a little larger that I will hopefully be able to see better.



I have come to the conclusion that getting this gun shooting accurately at longer distances than I would have ever thought I would shoot is a lot more gratifying than messing around with the more modern guns that I have. This has been a real challenge. When I was developing loads for this gun, I shot targets at distances less than 100 yards that had larger groups than this 200 yard target.

[Hobie]

It IS fun isn't it, to mess about with these old girls?...

[geobru]

It IS fun isn't it, to mess about with these old girls?...

Absolutely correct Hobie! I remember when I was in college, many years ago, thinking that reloading would be a lot of fun. I never imagined that the old gun in dad's closet would be the catelyst that would eventually get me to start reloading.

[kimwcook]

Cool.

[Ben_Rumson]

Aint NOthing like making the old ones shoot true and well!

[Pisgah]

Now, those are some satisfying groups! Nice.

[Dave]

Strong shooting!

[M. M. Wright]

geobru,
Good shootin' brother. It looks like you've found the right powder too. It's what I use in all the old big ones. You can usually find a load that will shoot in them. Was it a gas checked bullet?
M. M.

[OldWin]

Very true. That is the most enjoyment I get from my old guns, getting them to perform better than people think they are capable.

[geobru]

geobru,
Was it a gas checked bullet?
M. M.

Yes. 273 grain FNGC, cast by Bullshop bullets.

[RIHMFIRE]

mighty fine shooting!
good look'n gun too!

[Nath]

That'll bring home something worth cooking now

Nath.

[pablom]

26 grains of 5744 is working corn meal to fill i figure? Is the bore real nice? What bullet? I have been using AA8700 with mag primers, for best load. Its the info I got from the feller I bought the rifle. I think 68 ish Grains, Dont quote me! I'll look if your interested. I used a original win. mold lubed and sized to .406.
I never shot beyond 100 though. I have a few other load used to. If interested it would be nice to share info.
Looking for 38-56 smokeless loads that perform too? If anyone had some?? Pablo

[geobru]

26 grains of 5744 is working corn meal to fill i figure? Yes Is the bore real nice? Bore is dark with some pitting, but the rifling is visible through the length of the barrel. What bullet? I think this is an NEI mould. I ordered them from Bullshop. FNGC, 270 gr. I have been using AA8700 with mag primers, for best load. Its the info I got from the feller I bought the rifle. I think 68 ish Grains, Dont quote me! I'll look if your interested. I used a original win. mold lubed and sized to .406.
I never shot beyond 100 though. I have a few other load used to. If interested it would be nice to share info. Sure send me a pm and we can share some info. I have a bunch of load info for 40-82 that I have collected over the years. Looking for 38-56 smokeless loads that perform too? If anyone had some?? You ought to start a thread on this subject. i'm sure there are guys here that can help you out with that caliber.

[Larryo-1]

I, also, have the 40-82. Three in fact. One is a custom Remington Rolling block that I used to test all my loads with, a completely restored M-86 and a custom Model 71 that was rebarreled to this caliber. All shoot very well. My oldest boy, who lives in Anchorage, has one that I had restored for him and he has done very well with it. His first kill was a moose. We recovered the bullet and I made a belt buckle out of it for him. My favorite load, in the M-71 is 58 grains of 3031 behind a jacketed Barnes flatnose softpoint at 260 grains. My son uses a paper-patched lead flatnose that weighs in at about the same weight over 50.0 grains of 3031 with kapok on the powder. When I was testing loads in the Rolling Block, some of the groupings were less than 1 inch. This is a very good cartridge and I wish that factory ammo was still available for it. It is for the 40-65. And that is just an economical version of the 40-82.

[jd45]

I think you can be well satisfied with your results at 200, which is not to say you can't improve on them, but........darn fine shootin!!!!, jd45

[Ysabel Kid]

Very cool - great post!

[Sixgun]

Geobru,
That don't surprise me at all. The old guns will shoot! The 273 gr. bullet you are using sounds like the one I cast in an NEI mould for my 40-65. 24 gr. of 5744. Here's a pic of a group that I shot at 300 meters (327 yards) with mine. Conditions were perfect with the first 6 shots but then the wind started blowing a bit and you can see how the group "wondered" off to the right a bit.--------Sixgun

[KirkD]

Great post and thread. Those targets are impressive.

[Hobie]

How many .40-82s were built?

[Mike D.]

Close to 31,000, more than 2 1/2 times the number of "doggy" .33 WCFs built. Behind the .45-70 it was the commonest caliber.

[southfork]

That's a good question --- one that may not have an answer. I looked long and hard before finding my 1886 in 40-82. I've really only come across a couple on gunshop shelves out west. Seems like they are far outnumbered by 45-70's, and even by 45-90's --- and the vintage 45-90's are pretty hard to find now-a-days too.

[southfork]

For being the second most common 1886 caliber, where are they all?

[Hobie]

Close to 31,000, more than 2 1/2 times the number of "doggy" .33 WCFs built. Behind the .45-70 it was the commonest caliber.

Thanks Mike. I don't know why but I was thinking it was rarer than that... Had a fella in the shop today that had one. He still has a box of factory ammo for it.

[geobru]

I think you can be well satisfied with your results at 200, which is not to say you can't improve on them, but........darn fine shootin!!!!, jd45

jd, I agree. The question that comes to mind now is how good and how far will I be able to go with this old girl!

Geobru,
That don't surprise me at all. The old guns will shoot! The 273 gr. bullet you are using sounds like the one I cast in an NEI mould for my 40-65. 24 gr. of 5744. Here's a pic of a group that I shot at 300 meters (327 yards) with mine. Conditions were perfect with the first 6 shots but then the wind started blowing a bit and you can see how the group "wondered" off to the right a bit.--------Sixgun

I remember when you posted that picture. That is is what got me to wondering how my 40-82 would do.

I counted up the number of times that I have shot this gun, and it is about 275 times. It just keeps on surprising me as it seems to get better with use. The barrel is in a lot better shape now than when I first started shooting it after it sat unused fron 1929 to 2008. I will be trying it out at 300 yards after I get it dialed in a bit better at 200. The amazing thing to me is that I shot the 3.25" group the first time I ever shot it at 200 yards! I thought I'd see how it performed, and WOW! This has been and will continue to be a LOT of fun!!

[Sixgun]

For being the second most common 1886 caliber, where are they all?

I have them all. I let Geobro borrow one Na! I don't have any in 40-82. Only a Hi-Wall in that caliber graces my gunbox.

Geobro,
Yes, the accuracy will get better with shooting it. You have to figure that about 99% of all of these weird calibered guns have been sitting unused since before WW1 and maybe up until the thirties or so. All kinds of oxidation, corrosion, and other garbage has been filtering itself in all the nooks and crannies. I have found that about 500-1000 rounds of cast bullets will polish up the bore pretty good. Also, pay attention to your crown as most are beat up by the old timers who cleaned and cleaned and cleaned with dirty steel rods. Get it crowned and tell the gunsmith to just "touch her up" without digging too deep. ----------Sixgun

[Mike D.]

If you look you will find .40-82s pretty regularly. Out this way they seem to be in demand and bring more than a .33 and quite a bit less than .45-70s. Many have cruddy bores from BP and corrosive priming. Plenty more were bored to .45-70, too. The number of guns made in each caliber was published in John Madl's little book on the 1886. John M. Hawk compiled this listing:
33=12,869 Even more obscure rarities were built on an experimental basis.
38/56=19,457 .310=1
38/70=1,167 .433=2
40/65=17,651 46 WCF=1
40/70=862
40/82=30,973
45/70=36,107
45/90=23,167
50 EXP=2,652
50/100=85
50/100/450=232
50-110=2455
50/110 EXP=47
50=56
50/105=18
50/110/450=47
50/100 EXP=3
45/70 lifeline=472

[geobru]

If you look you will find .40-82s pretty regularly. Out this way they seem to be in demand and bring more than a .33 and quite a bit less than .45-70s. Many have cruddy bores from BP and corrosive priming. Plenty more were bored to .45-70, too. The number of guns made in each caliber was published in John Madl's little book on the 1886. John M. Hawk compiled this listing:
33=12,869 Even more obscure rarities were built on an experimental basis.
38/56=19,457 .310=1
38/70=1,167 .433=2
40/65=17,651 46 WCF=1
40/70=862
40/82=30,973
45/70=36,107
45/90=23,167
50 EXP=2,652
50/100=85
50/100/450=232
50-110=2455
50/110 EXP=47
50=56
50/105=18
50/110/450=47
50/100 EXP=3
45/70 lifeline=472

Thanks for posting this Mike. Very interesting. What is the 45-70 Lifeline?

[KirkD]

I seem to run into a lot of 40-82's up here in Canada, along with 45-70's.

[geobru]

I have spent most of my adult life in small towns where it is pretty hard to find any old guns unless it is someone's closet or safe. Until I lived in Lewiston, ID, other than my dad's, I had seen two 86's, period. Both were 40-82. One, in the 70's was reblued and refinished with a price tag on it of $650 and the other was one a friend got from a relative who had lived in Alaska. As to where all of them are, my guess is that people have them, and many are languishing in a dark corner somewhere waiting for someone to bring them out of mothballs. The attitude in my family about my dad's 86, when I was growing up was, yeah, that is the old gun that dad bought in an auction in 1929 for $1.50 and you can't get ammunition for it any more or shoot it because the safety doesn't work. That thought followed by, it might be worth a lot of money some day. We never thought about selling it because of the story and because we never saw any other rifles like it. I think this scenario is being replayed many times over.

[Kansas Ed]

It has always seemed to me that there were more .33 Winchesters up for sale than any other caliber. A quick check of GB confirmed that, as there were 7 in 40-82 and 12 in .33. Looking at the production numbers, I have to wonder why, unless as Kirk pointed out, many of the 40-82 rifles ended up North. I can see why the .33 would be more popular in the States, as larger game animals at the time were really only in about half a dozen states in the US, but everywhere in Canada and the Alaskan territories. I've owned two 1886's so far, and personally I'm much happier with my 40-82 than I ever was with my .33. But that is all personal preference, cause I really do have a thing for the '40's. I really need a 50-100 / 50-110...I mean...I really NEED one....

Ed

[Mike D.]

45/70 lifeline=472[/quote]

Thanks for posting this Mike. Very interesting. What is the 45-70 Lifeline?[/quote]
The .45-70 "Lifeline" gun was used in ship to ship rescue. Basically it is a smooth bore line throwing gun with 16" barrel that fired a brass rod in front of a blank cartridge. Beneath the barrel is a brass container that held the string. The string was wound in such a manner inside a paper tube that slid into the container. The lid had a hole in that was tied to the loop on the brass rod. When fired the string would be sent to the target craft so that a heavier line could be attached to it and pulled across between boats.

The string had a maximum range of 1200', but that is a difficult shot to make. The loads came in three loads rated by how much black powder was used in each. The heavy loads were used the most. I have used these guns at work on several occasions to shoot a line across a canyon or stream in order to pull a rope and power lines over the obstacle. With practice, it was easy to lay the rod over the adjacent structure or pole and 600+' distance.

Here is a photo one one of these guns from John Madl's book. You can see the rods, cannister cartridges, eitc.