Are you smarter than a (1895) 8th Grader?

[Hillbilly]

Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well,check this out. Could any of us have passed the 8t h grade in 1895?



This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina , Kansas , USA. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina , KS , and reprinted by the Salina Journal.




8th Grade Final Exam:

Salina, KS, 1895




Grammar (Time, one hour)



1. Give nine rules for the use of capital letters.

2. Name the parts of speech and define those that have no modifications.

3. Define verse, stanza and paragraph

4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of "lie" , "play", and "run."

5. Define case; illustrate each case.

6. What is punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of punctuation.

7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.



Arithmetic (Time, 65 minutes)



1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.

2. A wagon box is 2 ft. Deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. Wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?

3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?

4. District No 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?

5. Find the cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.

6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.

7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per meter?

8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.

9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance of which is 640 rods?

10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt



US History (Time, 45 minutes)



1. Give the epochs into which US History is divided

2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.

3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.

4. Show the territorial growth of the United States

5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.

6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.

7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?

8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1 800, 1849, and 1865.



Orthography (Time, one hour)



1. What is meant by the following: alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, and syllabication.

2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?

3. What are the following, and give examples of each: trigraph, sub vocal, diphthong, cognate letters, and lingual.

4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u.'

5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.

6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.

7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi-, dis-, mis-, pre-, semi-, post-, non- , inter-, mono-, and sup-.

8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.

9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.

10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.



Geography (Time, one hour)





1 What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?

2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas ?

3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?

4. Describe the mountains of North America

5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla , Yukon , St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco .

6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the US

7. Name all the republics of: Europe and give the capital of each.

8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?

9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.

10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.




Notice that the exam took FIVE HOURS to complete. Gives the saying "he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning, doesn't it?

[mescalero1]

Today's college grads could not pass that test

[J Miller]

I was going to say that not only could I not pass that test, neither could todays high school grads.

So if todays college grads can't pass it the people of this country have really been dummed down.

So .......... if that's the case how did we get to where we are?

Joe

[Hillbilly]

J Miller...you may not be able to pass that test off the top of your head... I bet you have the skills to find out how to answer the questions.

Todays kids are not taught facts...they are not taught how to reasearch or reason and use the tools to find the aswers.

I guess snopes says this test isnt totally legit. I have looked at a lot of old school books and figure this test is plausible.

[Bridger]

I couldn`t - and I am still in high school on top of that.

[wileyj]

This is possibly a fake. I do not believe that meter's were even thought of in 1895 (Math question 7)
..wiley

Racing Miatas, Good cigars, Big guns
Houston, TX

[LeverBar]

Yeah, doesn't look as if it is real.

I taught high school English. No way a student could complete the Grammar section in one hour. And--such a time constraint would not afford students the opportunity to illustrate their knowledge. Bogus Test.

[mklwhite]

This is possibly a fake. I do not believe that meter's were even thought of in 1895 (Math question 7)

The comprehensive decimal (metric, from the Greek metron: "measure") system created as a national standard in France in the 1790s, following the revolution, subsequently adopted on an international basis as the primary standard in many countries, and then the standard for science. The meter was originally defined as 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the equator and either pole; however, the original survey was inaccurate and the meter was later defined simply as the distance between two scratches on a bar made of a platinum-iridium alloy and kept at Sevres, France, near Paris. In 1983 the definition was redefined as the distance light travels through a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 of a second.

[Scott64A]

I have a hard time believing this is real. My grandpa made it through eighth grade and then stopped, as did four of his 6 brothers. The rest went on through high school. This was in the 20's and 30's.

I doubt grandpa could have done a fration of this test and passed even that. They did teach you how to do decent math though, and use your head to solve practical problems as compared to the schools of even my day, (grad HS 1991,).

1895?

Who went through more than 4th grade back then?
People who went to private schools, that's who.
So maybe if it was lifted from a tough as heck private school...

[North Bender]

I'm sure most kids now days can tell how many bushels of wheat pack into a hay wagon!

I agree, this test does not appear real.

[El Chivo]

Robin Williams wrote this

[Grizz]

I think this answers Joe's question, how we got here. Folks don't want to believe that the test is real because of how dumbed down we've become. It's the institutional mandatory gov subsidized education industry that's dumbed us down. They did it for the purpose of creating dummies who vote for the likes of hussein and clinton and mccain.

I believe the test is genuine largely because of the reactions of folks who can't believe it is. I mean, what better indicator is there? Plus, no one who has denied the test has offered any evidence.

Is anyone familiar with McGuffy's Readers? I have a set that is a reproduction that was published well before the time of this test. I can well believe the test is genuine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGuffey_Readers

Further, having home schooled our three children I am very confident that eight graders, PROPERLY EDUCATED, are more than able to answer the questions in the time allocated.

I think it's funny that no one believes that young people can be taught and and can learn substance. Watch Jay Leno interview people on the streets with much simpler questions, the majority can't answer them. Want to guess why? Re-read paragraph one.

Grizz

here is a site dedicated to the readers:

http://mcguffeyreaders.com/

good resource for families who love their children.

[LeverBar]

Grizz,
I disagree. I taught plenty of English students over the years. I created many tests.

There is no way a Grammar expert could satisfactorily respond in writing to those items in the Grammar section in the time posted.

Seven topics which include even more items of note--not possible.

On top of that, a 150 word composition. (And there is no direction/topic for students to address--Sit down, shut up, and write!--That is not a method a "real" teacher employs!)

An essay and six more items to be illustrated in writing in one hour--I contend that is an unrealistic expectation of any human being, let alone a young student.

BOGUS TEST

-----------------------------------
Well, I began to wonder what such a test would look like, completed successfully. So, I began to pull items from the internet. After finding a bit of information, I was terribly fortunate to find a completed version of the test in question. I'm sad to say though, that it is more "dumbed down" than what I would accept from one of my ninth grade students were we to have seriously attempted the BOGUS test. --Have fun!


I didn't include answers to all of the items on the test--I am ridiculous enough with the few examples I've supplied.

• The nominative case, which corresponds to English's subjective case, indicates the subject of a finite verb:
The man went to the store.
• The accusative case, which together with the dative and ablative cases (below) corresponds to English's objective case, indicates the direct object of a verb:
The man bought a car.
• The dative case indicates the indirect object of a verb:
The man gave his daughter a book.
• The ablative case indicates the object of most common prepositions:
The boy went with his father to see the doctor.
• The genitive case, which corresponds to English's possessive case, indicates the possessor of another noun:
A country's citizens must defend its honour.
• The vocative case indicates an addressee:
John, are you O.K.?
• The locative case indicates a location:
I live in China.
• The instrumental case indicates an object used in performing an action:
He shot it with the gun.


Capitalization Rules
Capitalize the beginning of a sentence.
• This hub is about when to use capitalization.
Capitalize the pronoun "I"
• My friend and I are going to a musical.
Capitalize proper nouns: specific people, places, and organizations
• Abraham Lincoln was born in Hardin County, Kentucky in 1809.
• Women for Women International is a fantastic organization supporting women all over the world.
Capitalize religious figures, holy books, and God
• The Bible has many stories of the Virgin Mary and Jesus.
• Aphrodite, the goddess of love and beauty, was the daughter of Zeus and Dione.
Capitalize days of the week, holidays, and months of the year but not seasons
• I love the fall because of Halloween and Thanksgiving.
• My favorite month of the year is November.
Seasons are capitalized when used in a title.
• The catalog for Spring 2006 will be out in February.
Capitalize countries, languages, and nationalities
• We went to Spain to learn Spanish.
Family relationships only when used instead of proper names
• I went on a trip with Father. (Father could be replaced with my father's name.)
• Your father is six feet tall.
• When we go to the movies with my aunts, my Aunt Marlie always has to be reminded to be quiet.
Capitalize titles that precede names, but not titles that follow names
• Senator Dianne Feinstein was first elected in 1992.
• Diane Feinstein was the first woman mayor of San Francisco.
Capitalize North, South, East, and West when used as sections of the country, but not as compass directions
• We lived in the Pacific Northwest for four years.
• Our house is northwest of Fremont.
Capitalize letter salutations and closings
Only capitalize the first word in the salutation and closing.
• My dear Ms. Taylor,
• With much love,
Capitalize the first word in a quote even when in the middle of a sentence
• My Uncle Bob use to say, "The last time I said no was when they asked me if I had enough."
Capitalize major words in titles of books, written works, or songs.
• A wonderful grammar book is Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss. (The Italics are not working for me, so I underlined the title of the book.)
Short prepositions ("the," "a," or "an") are not capitalized if they aren't the first word.
Capitalize the first word in each line of poetry or verse
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
"The Road Not Taken" by Robert Frost
Capitalize members of a group
• Many California Democrats will likely vote for Phil Angelides.
• Barry Bonds plays for the San Francisco Giants.
Capitalize events and periods of time
• The Roaring Twenties were a period of affluence.
• The Democratic Convention is a nationally televised event.
Capitalize company trademarks
• My infant eats Earth's Best baby food.
• We prefer Coke over Pepsi.
Capitalize words and abbreviations of specific names
Katie Couric recently switched from NBC to CBS.
She studied Jungian psychology which focuses on the collective unconscious.
Capitalize solar system names
• The fourth planet from the sun is Mars.
We usually don't capitalize sun, earth and moon.
• The moon revolves around the earth.
Capitalize Outlines
I. Food Pyramid
A. Whole grains
1. Breads, cereal, crackers, rice, and pasta


Punctuation Rules (Eng 1)

Five End-Mark Rules
1. A statement is followed by a period.
2. A question is followed by a question mark.
3. An exclamation is followed by an exclamation point.
4. An imperative sentence is followed by either a period or an exclamation point.
5. An abbreviation is followed by a period.
Four Rules for Irregular Abbreviations (See "Notes" on p. 739-740 of your textbook)
1. A two-letter state abbreviation, used only before a zip code, has no periods and has both letters of the abbreviation in upper case (caps). [Bethesda, MD 20816]
2. Abbreviations for government agencies and some other widely used abbreviations again use all capital letters and no periods. [CIA, NAACP]
3. Abbreviations for metric units of measure customarily use no periods but are lower case. [cc, ml, km]
4. When an abbreviation with a period ends a sentence, the second period is not necessary, but a question mark or exclamation point would follow the period required by the abbreviation. [This is Sam, Jr. (but) Is this Sam, Jr.? ]
Seven Capitalization Rules
1. Capitalize the first word in every sentence.
2. Capitalize the pronoun I.
3. Capitalize the interjection O.
4. Capitalize proper nouns.
o people's names
o geographical names
o special events
o historical events/periods
o nationalities, races, religions
o brand names
o ships, planets, awards, specific places, things, events
5. Capitalize proper adjectives.
6. Do not capitalize the names of school subjects except languages and course names followed by a number.
7. Capitalize titles.
o title before a name
o title of high official
o family relationship when used with or in place of person's name
o first and all important words of publication titles, movies, songs, works of art
o words referring to the Deity (other than those of ancient mythology)
Three Colon Rules
1. Use a colon before a list of items, especially after expressions like as follows or the following. A colon says "note what follows." A colon suggests equality.
2. Use a colon before a statement that expands or clarifies a preceding statement.
3. Use a colon in conventional situations. between hours and minutes in time after the salutation of a business letter
Three Rules for Italics/Underlining
1. Use underlining (italics) for titles of books, periodicals, works of art, films, record albums, television series, trains, ships, aircraft, spacecraft, and so on. (Titles of major works)
2. Use underlining (italics) to indicate words referred to as words, letters referred to as letters, numerals referred to as numerals.
3. Italicize foreign words.
Four Semicolon Rules
1. Use a semicolon between independent clauses in a sentence if they are not joined by and, but, or, nor, for, yet.
2. Use a semicolon between independent clauses joined by such words as for example, for instance, that is, besides, accordingly, moreover, nevertheless, furthermore, otherwise, therefore, however, consequently, instead, hence. (In other words, between independent clauses joined by transitional words that are not conjunctions.)
3. Use a semicolon to separate the independent clauses of a compound sentence if either of the independent clauses contains potentially confusing commas.
4. Use semicolons instead of commas to separate a list of items which themselves contain commas. (The "Upgrade Rule")
Four Apostrophe Rules Possessives
1. To form the possessive case of a singular noun, add an apostrophe and an s. Do not use apostrophes to form the possessives of the personal pronouns.
2. To form the possessive case of a plural noun ending in s, add only the apostrophe. Contractions
3. Use an apostrophe to show where letters have been omitted in a contraction.
4. Use an apostrophe and s to form the plural of letters, numbers, and signs, and for words referred to as words. N. B. such letters, numbers, signs, or words as words would be in italics
Four Hyphen Rules
1. Use a hyphen to divide a word at the end of a line. Divide words only between syllables, and make sure at least two syllables end up on the second line.
2. Use a hyphen with compound numbers from twenty-one to ninety-nine.
3. Use a hyphen with fractions used as adjectives.
4. Use a hyphen with the prefixes ex-, self-, and all- and with the suffix -elect.
Ten Quotation Rules
1. Use quotation marks to enclose a direct quotation-a person's exact words. How to punctuate and capitalize a quotation
2. A direct quotation begins with a capital letter.
3. When a quoted sentence is divided into two parts by an interrupting expression such as he said or Mother asked, the second part begins [read that as continues] with a small letter. (Split quotation)
4. A direct quotation is set off from the rest of the sentence by commas or by a question mark or exclamation point. Where to place end marks in a quote
5. A period or comma following a quotation should be placed inside the closing quotation marks.
6. A question mark or an exclamation point should be placed inside the closing quotation marks if the quotation is a question or exclamation. Otherwise it should be placed outside. Special placement of quotes
7. When you write dialogue (two or more persons having a conversation), begin a new paragraph each time you change speakers.
8. When a quotation consists of several sentences, put quotation marks only at the beginning and at the end of the whole quotation, not around each sentence in the quotation.
9. Use single quotation marks to enclose a quotation within a quotation. Conventional uses
10. Use quotation marks to enclose titles of chapters, articles, short stories, poems, songs, and other parts of books or magazines. (Minor works or parts of works)
Eight Comma Rules
Multiple items (to separate or join)
1. Use commas to separate items in a series.
2. Use a comma to separate two or more adjectives that come before a noun.
3. Use a comma before and, but, or, nor, for, so, or yet when it joins independent clauses.
Parenthetical and interrupter words
4. Use commas to set off an expression that interrupts a sentence.
1. non-essential participle phrases or subordinate clauses
2. non-essential appositives or appositive phrases
3. words used in direct address
4. parenthetical expressions
5. Use a comma after yes, no, or any mild exclamation such as well or why at the beginning of a sentence.
6. Use a comma after an introductory phrase or clause.
1. always follow an introductory participle phrase with a comma
2. always follow an introductory adverb clause with a comma
3. put a comma after multiple prepositional phrases that begin a sentence; do not put a comma after a single introductory prepositional phrase unless to omit the comma would cause confusion
Conventional situations
7. Use commas in certain conventional situations.
1. items in dates and addresses
2. after the salutation of a friendly letter and the closing of any letter
8. Do not use unnecessary commas.
Parentheses & Dashes Rules
1. Use parentheses to enclose material added to a sentence but not of major importance. (An understated interruption) Place a space outside the parentheses (before the first unless it begins a sentence and after the last unless it ends a sentence), but do not place a space after the opening parenthesis or before the closing parenthesis.
2. Use a dash to indicate an abrupt break in thought or speech. (Use dashes to enclose an overstated interruption?)
1. Do not put a space on either side of an em-dash (the type of dash we are discussing here).
2. To type an em-dash on a Macintosh computer, hold down the Option and Shift keys and press the Hyphen key. If your typewriter or printer cannot make an em-dash, use two hyphens in a row (without spaces) to indicate an em-dash.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, my! Here is the Jewel!

A Completed 8th Grade Final Exam - Salina, Kansas, 1895
Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
a.) Capitalize the first word in a sentence.
b.) Capitalize the pronoun I and the interjection O.
c.) Capitalize the first word in a quotation.
d.) Capitalize the first word in a direct question falling within a sentence.
e.) Capitalize all nouns referring to the deity and to the Bible and other sacred books.
f.) Use a capital letter for President and Presidency when these refer to the office of President of the United States.
g.) Use a capital letter for official titles before the names of officials.
h.) Capitalize proper nouns and adjectives formed from proper nouns.
i.) Capitalize every word, except conjunctions, articles and short prepositions in the titles of works of literature, music, art, books, etc. The first word of a title is always capitalized.

2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
a.) Noun
b.) Verb
c.) Adjective
d.) Adverb
e.) Pronoun
f.) Preposition
g.) Conjunction
h.) Interjection
i.) Article
Articles, interjections, conjunctions and prepositions have no modifications.

3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
a.) Verse - A sequence of words arranged metrically according to some system of design; a single line of poetry.
b.) Stanza - A group of lines of verse forming one of the divisions of a poem or song. It is typically made of four or more lines of verse and typically has a regular pattern in the number of lines and the arrangement of meter and rhyme.
c.) Paragraph - A distinct section or subdivision of a chapter, letter, etc. usually dealing with a particular point. It is begun on a new line, often indented.

4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
For verb forms regarded as regular and not normally indicated include:
a.) Present tenses formed by adding -s to the infinitive (or -es after o, s, x, z, ch, and sh) as waits, searches;
b.) Past tenses and past participles formed by simply adding -ed to the infinitive with no other changes in the verb form, as waited, searched;
c.) Present participles formed by simply adding -ing to the infinitive with no other changes in the verb form, as waiting, searching;
Principal Parts - do, does, did, doing; lie, lies, lied, lying; lay, lays, laid, laying; run, runs, ran, running. These are all irregular verbs.

5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
a.) In English syntax the term "case" refers to the subjective (or nominative), objective, and possessive forms of pronouns and the possessive form of nouns. I is the subjective (or nominative) case of the personal pronoun, me is the objective case, and my or mine are the possessive case. Mary's is the possessive case of Mary showing ownership by Mary herself.

6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
a.) Punctuation - the act, practice or system of using standardized marks in writing and printing in separate sentences or sentence elements, or to make the meaning clearer.
b.) The Period [.] - use a period at the end of declarative sentences, indirect questions and most imperative sentences, after most abbreviations. Do no use a period at the end of a title of a book, article, poem, etc.; In a typed manuscript, abbreviations and the initials of names do not have spacing after the periods, i.e., U.S.A., T.S.Eliot, e.g.
c.) The Question Mark [?] - use a question mark at the end of a direct question, after each query in a series if you wish to emphasize each element. Use a question mark enclosed in parentheses to express doubt about a word, fact or number. Do not use a question mark at the end of an indirect question.
d.) The Exclamation Mark [!} - use the exclamation mark after a particularly forceful interjection or imperative sentence.
e.) The Semicolon [;] - Use a semicolon between two independent clauses when they are not joined by a coordinating conjunction; to separate clauses joined only by conjunctive adverbs.
f.) The Colon [:] - Use a colon before a long formal quotation, formal statement, or a list of items. Use a colon after a main clause when the succeeding clause or clauses explain the first clause.
g.) The Dash [-] - Use a dash to indicate an abrupt break in the structure of the sentence or an unfinished statement. Use a dash to set off a summary or a long appositive.
h.) Parentheses [()] - Use parentheses to enclose material that is explanatory, supplementary, or exemplifying. Use parentheses to enclose cross-references.
i.) Quotation Marks [" "] - Use quotation marks to enclose all direct quotations. Use single quotation marks [' '] to enclose a quotation within another quotation. Use quotation marks to enclose words spoken of as words, words used in special senses, or words emphasized.
j.) The Apostrophe ['] - Use the apostrophe to indicate the possessive case of the noun or pronoun. Use the apostrophe to indicate the omission of letters or figures. Use the apostrophe to indicate the plurals of figures, letters, and words referred to as such, i.e., Watch your p's and q's. There are too many "and's" in your sentence.
k.) The Hyphen [-] - Use the hyphen to divide a word at the end of a line. Use a hyphen between parts of a compound modifier preceding a noun.
7-10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Language can be thought of as articulate mind, as the means of becoming human, as the record of wit at play, as the right hand of thought, or as a great reservoir of symbol, but as a working tool it results from the use mankind has made of it.
Literally, no one can discover how a language is being employed, since language is always changing, and the shifts and appearances only become apparent later. Practically, however, we have devices for discovering what a language has been, what it is now, and even what it is becoming.
Not always has man improved his language. As more widespread communication between peoples comes to pass, most languages are losing their "purity", becoming a polyglot of the many. This is not all bad. Each people and language have something to give, something to share, and something to take, to enrich the lives of all mankind.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, I guess I'm wrong; it can be done--if one were to accept short, vague answers, and compositions which have no titles nor adequate development--run-on sentences, improper sentence construction, cliches--a regurgitation upon the page.

No, I am not wrong. I still believe a young student could not complete this test in one hour even if that student were to write the answers as given in the example provided above.

Try to merely copy that sucker and see how long it would take you. Now, add a little time in between your scribing to simulate an eighth grader thinking. --Okay; I'm finished with that.

The assertion that no one believes young people can learn--another absurdity. As one who has worked with young people and lived daily amid their wonder, I'll use their terminology here: "Get real!"

[Griff]

I suspect it is a valid test from a private school in Kansas. Expectations were greater in such a place and time. I went to a private school thru the 6th grade, and breezed thru the next 6 in the public school system. I don't find that many of those are would be especially difficult, as several could be answered with simple one word responses. I agree with Grizz. Most unfortunate.

[505stevec]

Pretty good post. YOu know, I find it amazing how we talk about the "dumbing down" of the children but our country is still the only superpower in the world. I have read that 80% of all scientists who have ever lived are alive today. Maybe the last days are really here afterall.

[jimmel]

I couldn't cite the nine rules of capitalization, yet I seem to know how to capitalize. I remember grammar in school, it was dull as dirt, yet I seemed to have learned it. So instead of carrying all these rules around consciously, one internalizes them. So don't ask me what they are.
By the way, what's a bushel?

[LeverBar]

About 1/4 of a cubit cubed. (Maybe?)

[Grizz]

It's only natural and to be expected for a present day teacher to defend his trade. Nothing wrong with that. That does not give credence to his incredulity.

Mind you, in 1895 no one was showing first graders how to install condoms on bananas. No one was showing the porn book "our bodies ourselves" to second graders. No one was telling our third graders that sexual perverts buggering each other was a normal lifestyle choice, or telling the fourth graders to experiment around with all the perversions they discover to find their true sexual identity. No one was telling grade school kids that America is wrong and her enemies are right, or that they can't say the Lord's Prayer in school, or that it's alright to sit down and not recite the pledge of allegience. No one was teaching getto argot as a second language, or excusing the criminals who knifed the teachers as abused victims with special rights the teacher didn't have. No one was trying to explain to the eight graders that two mommies were better than one. Nor were they excusing the pregnant girls to make extra trips to the bathroom during class. Nor were there special classes to describe the details of the drugs that their tolerance made ubiquitus, and, wink-wink, sternly reprove their drug use. After all, so many of the teachers are users also. Alcohol, tobacco, lsd, cocaine, pot. Just harmless recreation.

So it is more than reasonable, ESPECIALLY SO IF YOU'VE EVER READ MCGUFFY'S READERS, to believe such a test is genuine. Their minds weren't filled with the filth that's standard fare in todays public schools.

It's not surprising to see today's education product as seriously defective when you know what genuine education produces in motivated students.

Regards, Grizz

[Noah Zark]

• The nominative case, which corresponds to English's subjective case, indicates the subject of a finite verb:
The man went to the store.
• The accusative case, which together with the dative and ablative cases (below) corresponds to English's objective case, indicates the direct object of a verb:
The man bought a car.
• The dative case indicates the indirect object of a verb:
The man gave his daughter a book.
• The ablative case indicates the object of most common prepositions:
The boy went with his father to see the doctor.
• The genitive case, which corresponds to English's possessive case, indicates the possessor of another noun:
A country's citizens must defend its honour.
• The vocative case indicates an addressee:
John, are you O.K.?
• The locative case indicates a location:
I live in China.
• The instrumental case indicates an object used in performing an action:
He shot it with the gun.

You omitted the gun case. The gun case contains one or more firearms.


Seriously, awesome post!

Noah

[Jason_W]

Todays kids are not taught facts...they are not taught how to reasearch or reason and use the tools to find the aswers.

This is true. We live in an information age where all "facts" are at our fingertips at all times. The prevailing idea is that since facts can be looked up at any time, memorizing them is a waste of energy. Hence the emphasis is placed on building research skills and the ability to present a plausible argument. Grammar is now taught in a “learn by doingâ€

[Jeeps]

It's only natural and to be expected for a present day teacher to defend his trade. Nothing wrong with that. That does not give credence to his incredulity.

Mind you, in 1895 no one was showing first graders how to install condoms on bananas. No one was showing the porn book "our bodies ourselves" to second graders. No one was telling our third graders that sexual perverts buggering each other was a normal lifestyle choice, or telling the fourth graders to experiment around with all the perversions they discover to find their true sexual identity. No one was telling grade school kids that America is wrong and her enemies are right, or that they can't say the Lord's Prayer in school, or that it's alright to sit down and not recite the pledge of allegience. No one was teaching getto argot as a second language, or excusing the criminals who knifed the teachers as abused victims with special rights the teacher didn't have. No one was trying to explain to the eight graders that two mommies were better than one. Nor were they excusing the pregnant girls to make extra trips to the bathroom during class. Nor were there special classes to describe the details of the drugs that their tolerance made ubiquitus, and, wink-wink, sternly reprove their drug use. After all, so many of the teachers are users also. Alcohol, tobacco, lsd, cocaine, pot. Just harmless recreation.

So it is more than reasonable, ESPECIALLY SO IF YOU'VE EVER READ MCGUFFY'S READERS, to believe such a test is genuine. Their minds weren't filled with the filth that's standard fare in todays public schools.

It's not surprising to see today's education product as seriously defective when you know what genuine education produces in motivated students.

Regards, Grizz

Spot on!

Don't forget that todays society in general teaches self gratification over
the common good also.

We are told we "deserve" rather than to go out and "earn".

[Hook]

An interesting observation here:

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

[LeverBar]

Do you suppose some of you have a narrow view of what is being taught in the average classroom? You seem a bit biased in your opinions toward education in America and America's youth.

If that is what your tax dollars are paying for, does that mean you are condoning such curricula?

Funny, during my years in the classroom I thought I was teaching English, and participating in a worthwhile endeavor, helping to guide young, good people toward fruitful and fulfilling lives. Instead, according to your post, I was teaching sex ed, touting prejudice, and condoning/fostering drug use--Dang! If I had realized that back then, I could have just tossed in the towel, and had a splendid trip, frolicking in the fog of pot smoke filling my classroom. I guess during conferences I should have detailed to the parents just how worthless and hopeless their children really were. All those years, I was just a sham, a forked-tongued puppet in the system that welcomes in, under false pretenses, those frightened, excited, smiling preschoolers, just to spit them out of a corrupt system thirteen years later as hardened juvenile delinquents.

It is sad that such negativity is the mirror of the wondrous glow of our younger people. More disturbing is that some folks continue to profess how terribly ugly the younger generations are.


If pure-spirited youngsters are repeatedly told/shown that they are "bad," they will likely become this "bad" thing they are being held up against. Such an assumption of identity is a tendency in the Human Being. All it takes is bit of repetition from one or more short-sighted, closed-minded, stuff-spewing adults to mold youngsters into oxygen-breathers just like them. Children learn quickly; offer them five views of an idea in a two-week period, and they normally will have learned the concept. So, those of you who want to become an almighty creator of human personality, just grab a child, yell into their face that they are worthless, and wait a bit--they will usually fulfill your expectations.

I have seen the best of the Human Spirit in the teenagers I was fortunate in sharing time with.
--I have had a young man thank me for the respect and help I afforded him by my suggesting that he walk (unescorted) to the principal's office with his notebook and drawings of marijuana. He stopped smoking it, chose his path, and conducted himself with integrity throughout the remaining three years in the school. I suspect he might still be an honorable man.

--I have had a young woman come running to me from down a crowded hallway, sobbing, repeating through her shock, "He beat me! He beat me!" After this, she found the fortitude to take the steps to confront her mother's live-in, pot-smoking, abusive boyfriend. She had to break her silence by talking with police and social workers. Not easy decisions, steps, for a teenager to take.

--I have seen the anger in a young man turn to tears as he detailed to me how he stepped between his younger brother and his aunt, to endure a severe, straightened-coat-hanger whipping. Just another, usual morning's lesson from their "guardian." And he was feeling ashamed to speak of it.

--I have had fathers and mothers turn to me and say, "I don't care what you do with him; I'm done,"--and other words to that same end.

--I have had a father, in the presence of his daughter, argue that the daughter's copying another student's test in class was not "cheating."

--I have seen an entire population of students--1,800 at least--become heartsick, devestated at the loss of a handful of shuttle astronauts.

--I have seen them horrified at the news/images of the Twin Towers--unable to fathom the sorrow in their hearts.
--I have watched the local news as one of my students read a poem through misty eyes in his attempt at honoring strangers (to him) killed in the Towers. No one had asked him to write the poem, nor to publicly present it. He did it to help ease the pains he knew were in others' hearts.

--I have held quivering, fearful young adults, questioning why someone would say they were going to bomb the school at 12:51pm.

--I have had a student apologize for not completing his homework, and in the next sentence, inform me that his heart had stopped; he'd spent the past days in a hospital--but he was sorry he had not finished his work.

--I have witnessed students organizing drives--on their own--to provide homeless people with quilts and coats.

--I have seen teenagers give up their money and time to fill fire-stations with food for others.

I have been amazed at the efforts they have made to raise money for organizations that save lives, providing hospital rooms, medicines, and surgeries for people who otherwise would have died.

--I have seen these young people take note of another individual's demeanor, assess that the other's spirit was broken, and step forward with hugs and tears of their own to lift the pained person.

--I have seen unselfishness, sacrifice, joy, pure love in most of the young people I have been associated with.

I'll stop listing; it is a very long list of the grace of youths' Spirit--from the obvious to the subtle.

But, it is likely you will not accept it as truth, since you have not experienced it yourself--have not cared enough to take note of such Humanity when it is displayed by the media--while it is so blatantly apparent each day in so many young people. And if you and people like you don't get a clue from these few items, a clue that young people are just as good as those youths of generations before them, then that is just pathetic. Our young people shine, and those of you who cannot see glow of wonder from our young people, then you are not looking in the right places, or perhaps, you merely choose to see and foster society's ugliness.

Never has a generation in America been free of adolescents who were considered immoral and who chose to press mores through aberrant behavior.

Perhaps it is not the youth of America that are so terribly out of control and immoral. Maybe it is such that the attention poured upon the percentage of atypical youths aids in fostering a jaded view of all teenagers.

Maybe it is society/adult models who are major players in scheme of how America is turning out.

Many ideas to ponder.

I am thankful that there are adults who recognize how good young people are--to mirror to them that they are precious and that their lives are important. At least then, a handful of these young men and women will have a chance to turn out to be morally sound, unlike the hordes of beasts you see ravaging the planet.

[Grizz]

I just reported what I had seen with my own eyes in my own community.

You can read any city paper in the country to see the same types of issues echoed and amplified. In-denial is not a good reality check.

If your experience differed, and there were no students such as I witnessed, or teachers such as I witnessed, well and good. That's literally exceptional, it does not make it the norm.

If your utopia were the norm, the SAT scores would be much higher than they are. And teenage pregnancies would be the rare exception. And drug use amongst the school populations would be nearly unheard of. It would be so insignificant that billions of dollars would not be required to try to secure schools from results of their failures. If you were in a school with none of these problems, that's a very good thing. And a very minute proportion of the public education industry.

And there would be no need to import engineers from India because they would be produced abundantly here.

The fact is that the track record of the institutional educational product in America is very low quality, unless there are rose colored glasses to filter out the obvious reality we all see around us.

Kudos for any school that produces its share of exceptional leadership. It's a statistical abberation.

Anyone can search for "school violence" or "school pregnancy" or "school drop-outs" or "school drug use" or whatever tickles your curiosity. There will be millions of hits. Take your pick.

The counter search would be "schools without violence" or "schools without drug problems" or "schools with top percentile SAT scores" or "schools without failures" or whatever.

It's impossible to hide the facts on the internet. Anyone can check it out and have an informed opinion, regardless what our own opinions are.

[LeverBar]

"I just reported what I had seen with my own eyes in my own community."
Yup. That's what I noted above--and what you reinforced with the mention of your reaping of refuse from your newspaper.

As far as a "search" for the negatives, I also have already addressed that, though, I didn't realize you fertilize your view of young people by searching for more statistics to foster your darkened view of them.

No "utopia" here, and definitely no cliched glasses--and you know that is not a true assessment of the views I have. Good ploy though--shift the focus from your negativity to exaggerating and falsifying my statements and their meaning. You might go back and look at my post. I'm not arguing that all young people are saintly scholars.

I attest that the majority of them are good Souls. I am a "counter" to your jaded view of them and to your visible "facts on the internet." The young people I know, see, and read "facts" about do not deserve to be lumped into your ugly effusion--your disregard of their worth, and your attempts to be yet another internet source for the degradation of the persona of the American youth.

I'm not going to pick at, nor preach about the causes of gangs, rapes, pregnancy, crime...among the teen population. Plenty of immoral young people around. Too much crime and selfishness from a percentage of them.

I do refuse to deem this young generation as an entity inferior to those generations that came before them. Many of us hold young people as being valued, unique, wonderful, and precious. It is shameful that there are people among us who refuse to note these and other positive attributes when thinking of or discussing teenagers.

A person sees what they want to see and hears what they want to hear regarding the attributes by which they choose to judge others. Too many older folks point that stiff middle finger high and curse the younger ones. Even more people, at catching a glimpse of a teenager, immediately fill with ill will toward them. It's just a pure form of prejudice.

I have said enough with adequate length that you can easily find fault with my views. I've provided plenty of text and ideas for you to twist my words and summarize my thoughts in a demeaning vein. Go ahead and feel good at explaining away the positive attributes of young people until you are left with the garbage readily illustrated in that almighty "search" that you stand by. I'll not attempt to change your negative view of the younger generation; it appears quite solidified. Especially when your perceived utopia, your ideal social conditions, include the off-to-school beating of young women and the whipping of young men.

By the way, did you bother to copy the answer key for the great test? Isn't that your tidbit of proof that you need to shoot down my assertion that the test is BOGUS? Don't forget to time yourself, and do, please, pause for a moment or two once in a while and think about your answers, or if that is too much to ask, then simply pretend you are one of my perfect students, and that you are not pregnant, not drugged, not violent--because as my student, I have taught you all these perfect answers while parading in the front of the classroom perfectly "in-denial" of the reality that your are indeed just a teenager on the brink of dropping out to become a statistical reality in the reeking effluent of the internet.

[Grizz]

Interesting, I talked about the negatives of the public education industry and you took it as an affront to the school children.

Amazing. No I'm not faulting the victims of the industry. I'm faulting the industry itself.

I'm saying that the product of that industry is inferior and far from what is possible to achieve. I'm saying it's the school boards, administrations, and teachers who are responsible for what comes out of the school system. It's simple really. It's called reality. It has nothing to do with how I feel about it, or how you feel about it.

Are you in a teacher union? Have you ever read The (sp) Secus Circle? Do you advocate merit pay for instructors?

[rjroberts]

This is possibly a fake. I do not believe that meter's were even thought of in 1895 (Math question 7)
..wiley

Racing Miatas, Good cigars, Big guns
Houston, TX

Meters did exist at the time purported but I suspect bogus because conversions to meters would not have been done at the time except in very rare foreign trade instances. The English did not use meters, nor the Canadians, though the Mexicans may have.

The meter, and whole metric system, were developed during Napoleonic times. President Jefferson suggested in 1803 or 04 it be adopted here but the objection was raised that changeover would be too costly and complex.

[LeverBar]

Your clarification is noted, Grizz. Yes, the impression was that you were disparaging a generation, millions, of young people. Maybe that idea stemmed from your statement: "...today's education product as seriously defective...." And another: "...education industry...creating dummies...." Did I misread these lines in which you call the students "seriously defective" and "dummies"?

I will offer a clarification: You have missed my point: "It's only natural and to be expected for a present day teacher to defend his trade." I'm not defending education/educators. I am advocating for the students--that many are quite knowledgeable and do exit the system as decent, admirable young adults--despite the pressures from people who consider them "dumbed down" and "defective," regardless of problem teachers and absurdities in the education system.

No sarcasm here, Grizz--I do appreciate your speaking out that the system is faulty. It is. And many of the items you spoke of in your paragraph noting "condoms on bananas" I find appalling too. I would suggest though that your list of responsible parties is quite short. Somewhere on the list should be government "reforms" and voters--At times, teachers are told what to present in class. And even when the teacher and the students know it is ridiculous to bring such absurdity into the room, the teacher must present the stuff. And if the teacher is determined to feed his/her family, the garbage is dumped onto the students.

You missed another influential group that should be listed. In my post about the wonder of students I've seen, I hadn't noticed while typing it that I was creating a juxtaposition of two generations. Parents and guardians should be high on the list of catalysts which are souring the system.

And yourself/people like you. Your view of what occurs in classrooms, schools, students' knowledge and skills--Such a narrow and negative portrayal--Young people have to ward off such negativism, and for some of them, it is quite difficult to do so. Imagine a class discussion on prejudice, and a student's question, "Why do adults think we are so stupid?" I've been involved in these discussions during our studies of To Kill a Mockingbird. You speak of the motivation--criticism is not a good motivator.

Perhaps you could ask at your local high school to sit in on several classes over a few day period. Most schools will welcome such visitors. While there, definitely note what is lacking, what needs improvement and show up at the next school board meeting to speak of these failings. But while in the school, do also look to the education of the students, their intelligence, the ways in which they display their knowledge and insights of the world. Do keep your ears and eyes open at lunch time, and definitely stay after classes are finished--camp where you can observe these young people being themselves--and, no, I'm not pointing you to watch them graffiti the local businesses. You know the steps I'm suggesting you do.

You continue harping about "reality" as if your view encompasses all--for you, it does. We all live in our own little reality, though, some of us can see beyond our tiny realm. You seem closed-minded to any realities but your own--that ideas others offer are immediately dismissed and/or attacked, not for their content; rather, merely because they are not in line with your beliefs. My knowledge is slight of the problems regarding education in America. But your summation, “it's the school boards, administrations, and teachers who are responsible for what comes out of the school systemâ€

[78CJ]

Wow, I just tracked this thread down to see what all the "negativity" was all about.

It seems to me that you LeverBar are the one that turned this one south.

Just an observation

[jengel]

Thanks for tracking this post down. I see both sides of the fence on this one. I too think that the current education system may be "dumbed downâ€

[BAGTIC]

I was going to say that not only could I not pass that test, neither could todays high school grads.

So if todays college grads can't pass it the people of this country have really been dummed down.

So .......... if that's the case how did we get to where we are?

Joe

Like with a dog sled it is not necessary for every member to know what is going on or where they are going. They just follow the lead dog.

The thing to remember is that in 1895 the high school graduates were among the intellectual elites. Very few got that far or were expected to.

If we assume that 1895 high scool graduates represented, for example, the top 5% and compared them to the top 5% today I doubt that there would be much if any difference in abilities. It is not that the students are dumber. It is a case of the diplomas and degress being degraded the same way the dollar has become devalued. That which becomes common becomes unnotable.

Today we have accepted the myth that every student is college material or needs to be. We even give social passes including certificates/diplomas to the obviously mentally impaired and athletes. Now no employer is going to be fooled by such a scrap of paper but in this delusional age of touchy-feely sentimentality we are willing to devalue the sense of accomplishment of many deserving students to mollify a relatively few and their families. Thus, we arrive at the point where we say a person "Only has a high school diploma".

[BAGTIC]

This is possibly a fake. I do not believe that meter's were even thought of in 1895 (Math question 7)
..wiley

Racing Miatas, Good cigars, Big guns
Houston, TX

SURPRISE!

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/usmetric.html

[El Chivo]

If that stuff had been covered in my course of study, I would know the answers. They studied those things, kids today are learning computer science.

There were smart kids and tough schools then as there are today. There were also kids who didn't learn then and now.

I took biology in college to fill a requirement and was surprised to see the same stuff I learned in ninth grade biology.

[FWiedner]

Sounds like someone has a self-esteem issue.

[El Chivo]

Ok, we're even

Seriously, I think self-esteem is at the root of any competitive behavior, it's a basic motivation to prove you can do something well. Even if you are only proving it to yourself. Sometimes too much self-esteem is a problem. I work with a bunch of young people who have great self-esteem and they have a poor work ethic and are mostly selfish.

Studies have found that most welfare recipients have great self-esteem, they think they deserve what they get and in fact they're angry they don't get more. You kind of need to kick someone in the pants to get them moving sometimes. That's the theory behind basic training, and the way children were raised before Dr. Spock.

When I first came out to California it was culture shock to be around so many people with rock-star mentality, narcissistic, etc. I'm not really used to it, either. But the old saying fits "I used to be angry, now I'm just amused".

[pharmseller]

In all seriousness, I believe TV to be a major factor in the differences between the eras being discussed.
Think about it - prior to the popularization of TV, what did people do in the evenings? Interact with other people, read, play? Anything other than staring at the Idiot Box?
Watching TV does not stimulate people intellectually, while most other pursuits do, including unstructured play for our kids. If you had nothing else to do, read a book!
My rant is finished.

Quinn