45/90 vs 45/70

[JFE]

For the sake of argument lets consider both are on the same platform, say a Miroku made Winchester or Browning 1886/71.

With top loads, designed for use in 1895 Marlins, you can find (tested) load data for the 45/70 producing

250gr 2600 fps
300gr 2450 fps
350gr 2200 fps
400gr 2000 fps
400gr cast 2100 fps

With smokeless powders, is there any advantage of having a 45/90 over a 45/70 ?

[Malamute]

There is some advantage if you want to exceed those levels, but I'm happy with 400's @ 1850fps. 45-70 is fine for me and the grizzlies in the neighborhood.

[CEMENTHEAD]

You can get the same fps with lower pressures, or sling bigger lead.

Thanks, Tom

[86er]

When I took the 45-90 to Africa I had some 350 gr Kodiak loads going 2350 fps and some 405 gr Kodiaks going 2220 fps. I also loaded some 430gr PUNCH bullets. Since the case capacity was greater I got 200+ fps more out of the 90 than the max load for the 70. It's there if you need it, but not many people can actually use the gain in velocity.

[Mike D.]

I have pushed 300 grain bullets to nearly 2470 FPS with my .45-90s, but that is totally unnecessary and hard on the body. Here in "Condor Cali" we use non-lead bullets, so rely on the tremendous expansion of lighter High velocity copper bullets. I stopped using the 300 Barnes TSX due to the overall length of the bullet and now exclusively shoot 250s in both my .45-70 and .45-90 Winchesters. Average MV is 2200 FPS and the pressure is less than 36K PSI. Some folks will decry the lighter bullets, but I feel confident that they will do the job within the limitations of older eyes and metallic sights. I smacked a nice fat Blacktail this year with my 1906 vintage Winchester ELTD .45-90. He was standing broadside at a bit over 80 yds and the bullet hit right behind the shoulder dropping him instantly, stone dead. The 250 TSX penetrated through, foamed the lungs, and went off into the distance. .45 caliber entry, 6" exit on opposite ribs and little meat loss.

[Old Savage]

For comparison, I hit a 3 point mule deer at about 20 yds with a 300 TSX impacting at about 1750 fps through the chest 3 times and the entrance and exit wounds looked similar.

[Mike D.]

3 times OS? What, he didn't drop at the first one? Sounds to me like the 300s were not expanding at all.

[Sixgun]

The experts all say that a 250 gr. cast bullet traveling at 1200 will kill anything in North America at reasonable distances. Along with other experiences, I stood next to my son last Oct. and watched him drill an elk with a 375 NEI hard cast out of a 45-70 traveling at 1700. DRT. I just can't see using a heavy bullet traveling more than 1800 to do any job, unless of course, your hunting Africa like 86er. Anything more is just macho and has to be hard on 99% of people in the ability to shoot accurately.

I've shot that heavy stuff and the anticipation of the violent recoil and blast sure unsettled my nerves---but thats me. (Then again, I'm half Italian and from the East )

[kimwcook]

(Then again, I'm half Italian and from the East )

We try really hard not to hold that against ya.

[6pt-sika]

The experts all say that a 250 gr. cast bullet traveling at 1200 will kill anything in North America at reasonable distances.

I used a 1906 vintage Marlin 1893 in 32-40 about 5 years ago . I was shooting the RCBS 32-170GC bullet pushed at about 1350 FPS and it flat knocked the fire out of a medium sized 3 point Virginia whitetail NO PROBLEM !
That deer was "maybe" 60 yards away !
And maybe made it 40 yards after I shot him before going down for the count .

On a somewhat similar yet slightly different note . Earlier this past season during our Damage Control hunts I was using a Marlin in 444 of 1966 vintage . The gun was loaded with a very nice 207 grain cast gascheck bullet that was being pushed with 50+ grains of H322 . I had 3 good sized whitetail doe walk up to my tree . Dropped the first at 19 , then waited about 30 seconds and dropped the second one at 28 yards , then waited maybe another 20-30 seconds and shot the third at 36 yards . The third was the only one that took a step after she was shot and that one went maybe 35 yards and dropped graveyard DEAD !
I would dare say this 444 load was in the 2300-2500 FPS range . I'd had that rifle set up with that bullet for almost 3 years and that was my first chance to "field test" it !

[6pt-sika]

I'm half Italian

There's a guy in BOTH the gun clubs I'm a member at down here in central VA that I've known and shot skeet with for close to 30 years now . And this fellow is Italian . As a matter of fact he makes a point of letting everyone know this !

His handtooled shell pouch has the intitals "WOP" tooled where a person would "normally" put the initials of their name !
He has the same thing embroidered in the back of all his shooting caps and on the inside of the Americase that holds his Crown Grade Krieghoff 32 tube set !

[Old Savage]

Mike - he had been hit in the spine and was sitting up defiantly quartering toward me, back legs not working. First one hit him square in the the chest in front of the shoulder and came out behind the other shoulder - at that he began to thrash back and forth - I was very surprised he did not drop. Second one went though the rib cage just ahead of the diaphram but through the center top to bottom - he continued to stay up and thrash back and forth and the third went low through the chest and took off the top of the heart and be went semi slowly down. Again I was surprised but he I think he was adrenalized. So I take with a grain of salt that a 45 cal. bullet at say 1200 up will just drop anything in North America. There was a lot of blood inside when we gutted him. He was maybe 140 lbs.

[Malamute]

It's pretty difficult to figure what any particular animal will do when hit by any particular load.

I havent shot a ton of critters, but have had a few surprises.