Knife Sharpening for Dummies

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:41 pm

I have to admit it, I'm a failed knife sharpener.....been trying to sharpen knives for over 30 years. I try for hours, often just butchering the edge angles and make it all but impossible to sharpen the knife again. I've used precut angles provided by manufacturers, tried to feel the "bite" of the steel to sharpen a knife and even the Lansky sharpening system(couldn't get where to clamp the knife each time so the angle was correct). Any one have any ideas for someone with a knife sharpening disability???????

Thanks.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:50 pm

C.Cash,

I am the same way. I could have written your post, word for word.

My dad could sharpen knifes, my friend in AZ can sharpen knifes, but NOT me. Noooooooo way.

I'm watching too, there's got to be a way for us knife dullers to sharpen them.

Joe

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:09 pm

J Miller wrote:C.Cash,

I am the same way. I could have written your post, word for word.

My dad could sharpen knifes, my friend in AZ can sharpen knifes, but NOT me. Noooooooo way.

I'm watching too, there's got to be a way for us knife dullers to sharpen them.

Joe

Brother! The years of agony and self doubt you know then. If I had lived on the Frontier, they would have found my bleached bones still clutching a dull skinning knife and whetstone, next to some game animal which I could neither skin or eat

samsi · Post by **samsi** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:26 pm

I'm kinda hit & miss when it comes to sharpening, though I have noticed that I have a lot more success keeping a good edge on carbon steel than stainless. If I can't keep one sharp these days I blame it on the knife.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:46 pm

We sure wouldn't have had any need for a diet. We would have been skinny.

Joe

jazman · Post by **jazman** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:08 pm

Man, I thought I was the only one! I could never work the magic with stones and finally gave up. I carry a Spyderco at all times, so when I saw a sharpening "system" made by them I took a look. Ceramic rods that work really well to sharpen and easy to do. Success! The set only cost $30 bucks or so online, money well spent. My Buck 110 folder with titanium handle is the toughest to do, but on all others including kitchen knives (Chicago Cutlerey and Henckels) it works great.
Jim

BlaineCGarverakaTubbyTuba · Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:17 pm

Two steps.

1: Get the proper edge angle to start with. If you hold the edge to the light and can "see" the reflection of the light in/on the edge you are not ready for step 2.

2: Final strop/edge. The crock sticks are good to use now. Lightly.

3. Scott had a good way that works for me, but I will not try to explain...maybe he'll chime in.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:59 pm

Dang, I wish I had a copy of that old post I made. It is very detailed and it seems to work very well for folks who try it.

Anybody have a copy of that old post?

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:38 pm

I guess I'm just lucky. I make knives, when I have my shop up and running. I've never had a problem sharpening knives. It's more a feel thing to me. Getting the angles right and feeling it as it slides across what ever medium your using.

SGT.Cap · Post by **SGT.Cap** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:49 pm

I find the lansky kit work very well if you use them correctly.

Things to keep in mind: Work from the tip to the hilt moving the stone towards the edge. Your trying to create and refine a burr on the edge
-With your medium and fine stones switch back and forth between each side of the blade with each stroke. i've never notice this making a difference with the course stone.
-Strop the blade when your finished with a leather strop and a little jewlers rudge.

Everyone seems to have their own techniques. But I can say that sharpening knives in one of the few things I'm actually good at. I have yet to meet anyone that did a better job that was not a pro.

A cheap and arguably better alternative to whet stones is wet/dry sandpaper (wet) on a piece of glass/mirror. New stones are flat but that doesnt last long. Using sandpaper on a piece of glass guarentees a flat surface for your sharpening, and its pretty cheap.

mack · Post by **mack** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:02 pm

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I have people drop off all kinds of stuff for me to put an edge on. I can't see any magic to it, just keep a consistent angle. Having a system that is harder than the steel in the blade helps save time. Trying to sharpen a blade with a Rockwell C much over 58 or 59 is an exercise in futility on an old soft Arkansas or Washita stone. You really need ceramics or diamonds to deal with stuff like ATS34, BG42 and more exotic steels. Even Bucks 420c is about a 58C on the Rockwell.
The Lansky's and other systems can help you hold the angle, but I find that a large, flat diamond stone on the bench works best for me. 20-40 micron will work fine, if you need to finnish to anything finer just use rouge on a sewn musslin wheel and buff it.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:35 pm

I might try the Lansky sharpener again. I am mainly "sharpening" my Buck 110, Buck Special(Brand new as I gave up on my old ones.....I am told these are ground at a new angle) and assorted pocket knives. Also, will see if I might be able to drum up your post Scott. Muchos Gracias fellas!

Mark Wilson · Post by **Mark Wilson** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:04 pm

ScottT wrote:Dang, I wish I had a copy of that old post I made. It is very detailed and it seems to work very well for folks who try it.

Anybody have a copy of that old post?

I downloaded your post a year or two ago but now I can't find it. Will check my work computer tomorrow and will post if I can find it.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:21 pm

You never read this from me, but I have finally been able to get a TRUE razor edge on my knives. I use a very light CIRCULAR MOTION (I didn't say that, you didn't hear it from me).

The angle is very improtant but if I just stroke the darn thing, I too, could copy and paste the first post.

Note the emphasis on very light, as in pressure. I ended up with a knife that actually shaves hair. Even my brother, who can zip one out, was really impressed when he helped me skin my buck last year in Ohio.

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:30 pm

I use a pair of Arkansas stones that are about 6"x2.25" mounted into a block with sand paper glued to the bottom and lots of honeing oil. Also I had worked as a Model maker for fifteen years and had to keep my chisels SHARP so a little practice is behind me at keeping a constant 22.5 degree angle.
I also would rather have a carbon steal blade anyday. My dad gave me a buck skinner and a 102 when I was a boy and I use the skinner every year on ten+ animals and It is a bear to get a edge on.
Buck used to sharpen there Knives if you returned them. If you think you have really messed up the edge let them regrind it.

Ed

Eric M. · Post by **Eric M.** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:19 pm

I picked up a Chef's Choice Manual Diamond Hone from Gander Mountain a couple of years ago for $20.00.
I works great, and gives me very sharp blades.

I used to be like you. If I even came close to getting a sharp edge on a knife, I was lucky, and that wasn't very often.
The unit from Gander works great.

Eric

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:05 am

nothing wrong with a circular motion. It'a a good way to avoid nicking the blade, as happens with a slicing motion. Most stones are small and it's hard to stay on top of it and keep away from the edges.

I have these Made in China kitchen knives. Decent stainless steel knives for 99c, but they came pretty dull. It's a lot of work! I'll try the sandpaper. I checked into getting a grinding wheel, cheap at Home Depot but kinda big. A stone works.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:30 am

I must admit I never did get into the Science of knife sharpening.
I have some knives that I can keep razor sharp and others that get duller the more I try to put on an edge!! Glad to hear I'm not alone!!

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:49 am

I've had good sucess using the DMT Diamond hones, I keep a bench model at the house and one of the small fold up types in my truck. Remember its all in the angles and being consistant.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:56 am

handirifle wrote:You never read this from me, but I have finally been able to get a TRUE razor edge on my knives. I use a very light CIRCULAR MOTION (I didn't say that, you didn't hear it from me).

Same here. For Knives, hatchets, axe.
Just works, don't ask me how.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:47 am

The best story I've ever read about knife sharpening came to me as a result of a primitive skills mail list I was on years ago that was sponsored by the University of Quebec. There was an old fellow on there who was from Hungary, IIRC. Anyway he told of how in his household growing up they never had any kind of sharpening stones in the house. Sharpening of field tools was done in the barn with files. Knives were sharpened in the house using the rim of an old crock. He said his grand father would get ready to go to work for the day and after he finished his coffee at the breakfast table he would flip his coffee cup over and run his knife across the bottom of the cup four or five times and he was ready for the day.

Personally I have two sets of Spyderco stones and I love them.

Rusty <><

Paul105 · Post by **Paul105** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:04 pm

ScottT wrote:Dang, I wish I had a copy of that old post I made. It is very detailed and it seems to work very well for folks who try it.

Anybody have a copy of that old post?

This is from your original post --

OK, Here goes:

First, take an Arkansas stone and put a few drops of oil on the surface you intend to use. Take the blade and face it toward you with the stone in your left palm.

Work the blade in small circles against the stone in order to true up the edge and remove any abnormalities. This hones away any chips or errant pieces and aligns the edge.

When everything smooths up, you then lay the stone on a bench or table top, something solid. Now, run the knife across the stone (I generally pull it toward me) with the back of the knife leading and quite a bit of pressure. You are trying to raise a microscopic burr on the edge of the knife. The back of the knife should be lifted off the stone to raise the burr. Then, reverse the knife and gently pull it the other way. This is to straighten the burr that you raised, not to remove it. This leaves a jagged and very sharp edge that will cut very well. Now, take the edge of the scabbard and strop the blade, again pulling the knife across the scabbard leading with the back of the blade.

If done properly, you can now mow hair off your arm. It takes less time to do than it took me to type this explanation.

Paul

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:48 pm

Thanks for that explaination! I will try, try again and see what happens

I think I may send my Buck 110 back to have it resharpened and start fresh. I've owned it for 25 years and it's amazing there is still metal left.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:57 pm

I can't sharpen knives, I make them dull. I bought a Chef's Choice Model 110 carried by Cabelas. It currently lists for $84.99. It is a 3 stage process that reshapes the angle of the cutting edge of the blade and then the next 2 stages sharpen the knife. It works on straight edge knives, not serrated. A 2 stage model sells for S99.99 and does both straight and serrated knive. A 3 stage that does both straight and serrated knives sells for $139-$169 depending on finish. For just straight edged knives the $84.99 model has worked great for me for over 10 yrs. Kitchen knives, hunting knives, Leatherman tool knife blades, it sharpens them all. If you follow the instructions and don't skip steps you will be amazed at how sharp the knives are. If a knife sharpening doofus like me can put a razor sharp edge on a knife, anyone can. I sharpened my dad's hunting knives after being told "Those electric gizmos don't work!" After I did his first knife he whipped out his Visa card and called Cabellas. If I was to do it over again I would get the 3 stage sharpener that does both straight and serrated knives. If I need to sharpen a knife in the field I use an inverter plugged into the cigarette lighter to get AC current. Usually I just take numerous sharp knives and resharpen them when I get home. These sharpeners are idiot proof. If it sounds like I'm doing an infomercial for them it is because I used to buy new knives because I couldn't sharpen dull ones.
See page 525 of the Fall Master Catalog.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:55 pm

NonPCnraRN wrote:I can't sharpen knives, I make them dull. I bought a Chef's Choice Model 110 carried by Cabelas. It currently lists for $84.99. It is a 3 stage process that reshapes the angle of the cutting edge of the blade and then the next 2 stages sharpen the knife. It works on straight edge knives, not serrated. A 2 stage model sells for S99.99 and does both straight and serrated knive. A 3 stage that does both straight and serrated knives sells for $139-$169 depending on finish. For just straight edged knives the $84.99 model has worked great for me for over 10 yrs. Kitchen knives, hunting knives, Leatherman tool knife blades, it sharpens them all. If you follow the instructions and don't skip steps you will be amazed at how sharp the knives are. If a knife sharpening doofus like me can put a razor sharp edge on a knife, anyone can. I sharpened my dad's hunting knives after being told "Those electric gizmos don't work!" After I did his first knife he whipped out his Visa card and called Cabellas. If I was to do it over again I would get the 3 stage sharpener that does both straight and serrated knives. If I need to sharpen a knife in the field I use an inverter plugged into the cigarette lighter to get AC current. Usually I just take numerous sharp knives and resharpen them when I get home. These sharpeners are idiot proof. If it sounds like I'm doing an infomercial for them it is because I used to buy new knives because I couldn't sharpen dull ones.
See page 525 of the Fall Master Catalog.

Thank you sir. That's what I need...."idiot proof"! I'll sure check those out.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:54 pm

The best I can do is with one of those plastic thingies with the small "V" on the end that you drag down the blade.(kinda like brass knuckles but made of plastic)

It puts a descent working edge on my Kabars.

I've been eyeing those electric thingamajigs from Cabela's catalog, that might be the way to go instead of begging my friend to razor my skinner every year just before deer season

Actually a few years ago I did put a heck of an edge on a Kabar little fin.

I guess it works with any blade with a concave profile(looking from the point straight on).
Ya just lay it flat on a stone(ive heard it has to be real stone) and put most of the pressure on the cutting edge of the blade but make sure the other side of the concave shape is resting on the stone too.(circular motion using water or spit washing the metal dust out of the stone every so often) It takes alot of time to change the angle but when I was done it was the sharpest knive Ive ever had.

Never got a chance to use it missed placed it somewhere and will have to start over when I get a chance.
To be quite honest I wonder if I'll be able to do it again or if I was just lucky.
Jeeps

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:29 am

Hi Jeeps, yes the Smith's hand sharpener works really well on scissors and kitchen knives as well. I have used it on my Swiss Army's also. I would imagine it takes a good bit of metal off though if you used it all the time and so I haven't used it on my expensive knives. Like you, I sometimes get a knife to a razors edge and consider akin to all the planets coming into alignment. I can never repeat the process though and usually have the blade back to butter knife status in no time.

azzhandler · Post by **azzhandler** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:16 am

I have no trouble at all sharpening knives to a razor edge, ive used stones ,lansky systems, but by far the fastest and easiest to use are the paper wheels that attach to a 6 inch grinder, 1 wheel is covered in carbide dust <glued> the 2nd wheel is just plain paper with jewelers rouge <sp> on it, anyone can have a razor sharp knife when using this system, i buy these at gunshows and they cost around $25 bucks, if interested i could probably take afew orders and ship them on your dime, usuially takes me about 4 minutes per blade, and you can do scissors and serrated blades also

Mark Wilson · Post by **Mark Wilson** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:27 pm

I am not sure if it is from Scott T's original post or not, but I have found a PDF file on knife sharpening authored by Dee Griffin DVM, University of Nebraska. The article is titled
Sharpening a Knife
Information & tips from a
veterinarian whose wife & meat
cutting put him through college

Total file size is about 200 KB, ten pages with illustrations. I do not think that I can import a PDF file to my post so If anyone is interested send me your e-mail address and I will forward you a copy.

gcs · Post by **gcs** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:47 pm

The absolute fastest way to a decent edge, unless you have the paper wheels, is those key ring thingees with the carbide inserts that you drag the knife through the "V". Yes it removes some extra metal, but it's completely idiot proof and gives a darn good edge. I know some Montana guides that use them and it works good for them.

I got some from a sportsman show in PA.
One is a STERLING, the other is from Rapid River knifeworks, the" Redi Edge"

I keep one on my keychain and am never long from a sharp edge.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:27 pm

Well...I went out and did the Smith's "V" sharpener, and it put a darned good edge on my Buck 110. You see metal shavings from the blade, and I'm thinking that has to be some seriously hard metal in the V to shave the metal off a buck knife. But you guys are right...definitely works fast and well. I think I will try and find the Lansky again though and give it a go. Thanks again for all the help and ideas fellas.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:25 pm

I find it pretty easy just drawing the blade across a stone or steel as if slicing off a thin shaving. My knives are almost always shaveing sharp & when theyre not its mostly just a few swipes away. I do like the newer diamond products alot. I'v got a few diamond bench top stones 2 16" round diamond steels & a cool 4" job that folds up & goes in my pack.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:59 am

I've had great results with the Lansky sharpener. If your using it on a blade for the first time, it can take a while to cut the surface to the desired angle especially if it is a larger blade. Always push the stone into the blade, as opposed to pulling it toward you. Also don't get overdo it on down pressure. Light strokes work best.

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:54 am

I use the Lansky quite successfully for my Scrade and KaBar outdoor knives, and kitchen knives. For field knives, I use the 25 degree slot as the edge seems to last longer. For kitchen knives, I use the 17 degree slot. The first time I sharpen a knife on the Lansky, I use all 5 stones. I'm careful to count the number of stokes on each side of the blade for each different stone. After the first time, I use the 3 finest grit stones, and again count the stokes on each side of the edge. One thing that works for me, when I've finished each both sides of the edge, I always take 3 strokes on the side of the edge I started with to make sure the wire edge is removed as much as possible. I use lots of oil, and wipe down each stone with a paper towel when I'm finished for the day to keep as much metal build up as possible from staying on the stone. When I started, it would take me about 15 minutes per knife to put a good edge on them. Now, it takes about 3 minutes per knife after I get set up. I don't try to get the Lansky clamp on any particular place except I make sure the knife sticks out far enough so the stone doesn't rub on the clamp instead of the knife edge.

The people at Smith stones or Smith Sharpening advertise that all you need to sharpen a knife is 2 quarters stacked together to hold the angle, and one of their diamond stones. I have an 800 grit water stone I use with my woodworking tools that I tried. I did ok, but the movement across the stone was awkward to me.