OT - Grandpa's Pistol....

[deerwhacker444]

I've got this pistol that belonged to my Grandpa. He always called it his "38" and kept a box of 38 special ammo around for it. When he passed away and it came to me, I started taking a closer look at it. I noticed that it is stamped 38 S&W. So I did a little research and found out it was a gun that the British ordered for WWII, it has the Commonwealth stamp on the frame and cylinder and was originally chambered for 38 S&W. Somewhere along its journey, the barrel was shortened and front sight reattached, the sling swivel was ground down, the cylinder was re-chambered for 38 special and some of it was re-blued.





A bud of mine has an pistol chambered in 38 S&W and he loaned me a cartridge, which fits perfectly snug in the cylinder.

But, there are dimensional differences between the 38 special and 38 S&W, there's a few mil slop which leaves the 38 special cartridge a little bit loose in the cylinder.

Is it safe to continue to shoot 38 specials in a cylinder that's was originally 38 S&W?

Am I going to run into any pressure issues.?

It's a bastard pistol, but it was my grandpas and I'd like to keep using it if it's safe.

What do you think..?

[Lefty Dude]

I would shoot 38 S&W's in the piece, as it was made for. The 38 S&W bore is .360", the 38 Special is .357"-.358". The accuracy is affected by using a smaller diameter.
Because of the Cowboy Action shooters Brass & bullets are availabe for the 38 S&W.

I had a Victory model in the early 1970's. Mine was also chamber reamed for the 38 special. This was common practice in the day. I remembered the spent brass looked kinda funny after I shot them. At the time I did not reload so the brass was dumped. If you want a close shooter and not accurate, have fun.

To be a shooter you would need to change out the barrel & cylinder to 38 special. The piece is a Model 10 Smith M & P, (Military & Police). Lots of parts are out there. If it were mine I'd convert the piece. You have an excellent frame.

Nice piece, BTW.

[deerwhacker444]

I would shoot 38 S&W's in the piece, as it was made for. The 38 S&W bore is .360", the 38 Special is .357"-.358". The accuracy is affected by using a smaller diameter.
Because of the Cowboy Action shooters Brass & bullets are availabe for the 38 S&W.

I had a Victory model in the early 1970's. Mine was also chamber reamed for the 38 special. This was common practice in the day. I remembered the spent brass looked kinda funny after I shot them. At the time I did not reload so the brass was dumped. If you want a close shooter and not accurate, have fun.

To be a shooter you would need to change out the barrel & cylinder to 38 special. The piece is a Model 10 Smith M & P, (Military & Police). Lots of parts are out there. If it were mine I'd convert the piece. You have an excellent frame.

Nice piece, BTW.

Thanks for the reply

So you're saying I can shoot 38 specials in it, just don't expect much for accuracy since it's underbored..?

I do reload, so I could load some 38 S&W if I wanted to. What would the extra free-bore in the cylinder do if I loaded some 38 S&W's

Where would one look for Model 10 parts..?

I'm not looking for stellar accuracy, I just want it to be usable, maybe "teach someone how to use a handgun accurate". When I was in HS, I shot woodpeckers out of the barn in winter with it. That's about all the accuracy I need from it.

[MrMurphy]

Victory models were made in both .38 S&W and .38 Special, the US issued variants being in Special.

Shoot .38 S&W's in it and be happy. I wouldn't convert a Grandpa Gun. It has history, leave it as it became. If you want to shoot something similar, Model 10s are everywhere.

[deerwhacker444]

Victory models were made in both .38 S&W and .38 Special, the US issued variants being in Special.

Shoot .38 S&W's in it and be happy. I wouldn't convert a Grandpa Gun. It has history, leave it as it became. If you want to shoot something similar, Model 10s are everywhere.

If I shoot 38 S&W's in it, will they be affected by the freebore that was created in the cylinder when they opened it up for 38 specials.?

I guess it would be like shooting 22 shorts in a 22 LR revolver.

[Catshooter]

deerwhacker,

You have been given some incorrect data.

Nominal sizes for the 38 S&W are .360 and the 38 Special .357 - .358. The word "nominal', esp in the world of firearms means 'yea, sorta kinda'. I have measured Smith & Wesson sixguns in 38 special that went .3555 and had a Ruger that went .3598.

Both of my 38 S&W's bores measured .363.

The only way to know the measurements of your piece is to measure it.

How about this for a short, easy answer? Did your grandpa shoot 38 Specials in it? If so, then give it a go. Since you reload, load some light target level loads and give it a whirl.

Here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php is a site that can tell you all you ever wanted to know about your pistol.

Here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php is a site to learn everything there is to know about casting and shooting cast in sixguns.

Good luck and have fun.


Cat

[Ysabel Kid]

Looking forward to the range report. Consensus is it will be safe to shoot either - now see which is more accurate (my money is on the .38 S&W).

[GregT]

Just a quick addition. Being a short, fat bodied cartridge and the .38 Special thinner in th body, there would be no way it could be reamed out to .38 Special. Just the fact that the chamber for the .38 S&W is larger than a chamber for a .38 Special would make it impossible to ream out... The .38 Special ammo should load and fire just fine. You might notice some expansion in the body of these fired cases. Slug your bore to get the proper groove diameter. I doubt that S&W was running two different bore sizes during WWII production. Should be a fun handgun to shoot!
GregT

[Catshooter]

Actually Greg, that's not so.

The S&W's case is slightly bigger, but much shorter. At the end of the chamber is the throat, which is smaller than the Special case. The throat is what gets reamed so that the Special case will chamber. Thousands and thousands of Victory model were so treated over the years.

It does cause bulged cases, but so what? Does it affect accuracy? Never tested it so I don't know. What someone thinks and what actually happens can be widely different.


Cat

[Charles]

Fire one round of 38 Special ammo in that pistol and look at the ejected case. You will then know why you should not first 38 Special ammo in that pistol. Best way to learn I know of. I did it that way...back in the day! It took me about 30 rounds to wise up. I was a slow learner.

In addition to bulged and often split cases, the bullets are undersized for the bore. Accuracy will be..shall we say..urine poor! The throats are not reamed for the 38 Special as they are already too big. The chamber of the charge hole is what is lengthened by reaming in the conversion. The result is you have a two diameter chamber and over sized throats. Back in the early 60's thousands of these British pistol were imported in this country, converted to 38 Special and sold for very little money. They were and are trash, but some hang around to plague the shooters who are not old enough to have done the drill with those pistols.

You can try shooting 38 S&Ws in it, but you won't be happy. The bullet will have a long free leap before it hits the throat and thence into the forcing cone of the barrel. This trip does nothing good for accuracy.

Keep the pistol as a family memento, but find something else to shoot. Your Grandpa got bite, just as I did and thousands of others when we bought these awful things.