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U.S. Troops Asked If They Would Shoot American Citizens
U.S. troops are being trained to conduct round-ups, confiscate guns and shoot American citizens, including their own friends and family members, as part of a long-standing program to prepare for the declaration of martial law, according to a soldier who recently returned from Iraq.
FWiedner wrote:U.S. Troops Asked If They Would Shoot American Citizens
U.S. troops are being trained to conduct round-ups, confiscate guns and shoot American citizens, including their own friends and family members, as part of a long-standing program to prepare for the declaration of martial law, according to a soldier who recently returned from Iraq.
Prisonplanet is a bit extreme, I realize, but it does picque one's curiosity.
JReed or any of you other recent returnees from the east, have you or any of your peers ever been approached on this subject?
Doesn't Alex Jones beleive that Lizard people are pulling the puppet strings of society? It's hard to take that seriously.
As far as the military firing on US citizens: I have a feeling if such a situation came to be in the US, contracters like Blackwater would be the ones committing the atrocities.
IMO, there is no place for martial law in a supposedly free society.
Do we still actually have a constitution in any meaningful way?
They were asking that in the 70s and 80s, too, expecting mass race riots. Don't forget, you swear to defend the constitution, not break it. You're too cynical to believe maybe that's a weeding out process instead of a condition of service
Humm… Lets see 22 years in the military, nope never been asked. If this had really come up as a topic of conversation in the military, it would have made BIG news. ..And just look at the source, “some guy named Scott who was a buddy of mineâ€
I think there would be mass chaos in the ranks if something like this ever came down. Now, it's been twenty years since I was in, but I could not envision any of us being given that order and carrying it out on average citizens. It would take a Hitler like wave of terror, oppression and indoctrination to get everyone on the same page for that excercise. You'd have to make alot of folks "go away" to even begin the process. Even as a brain washed 17-18 year old coming out of basic, it was firm in my head that I was not bound to obey any order which was immoral. Several times I faced just such a dilemma and refused to obey, suffering the consequences. Not saying that to say what a good guy I am but trying to illustrate what would have to happen to get to this type of oppression on Americans. They would have had to make me and many like me "go away" before they could enact something devious on law abiding Americans. It's hard to argue with a guy holding an M-60 with a 110 rounds of 7.62 pointed at them! Now, are we headed that way? We have less and less folks that have a real clear picture or real right and wrong are. Liberal education, the breakdown of the family, etc. has helped this process along. You'd think that it would be easier to direct these types of folks. Still too many independant thinkers though with weaponry to make it happen, IMHO. If we continue down our current path to a Liberal Utopia and lock arms with the UN and it gets real teeth, we may in fact be in a world of hurt in this department. That is my major concern. The party of tolerance will be the first one to take you away for "hate speech" if you dare to say in a public setting that you believe homosexuality is immoral because of what the Bible says. They think your desire to own a personal firearm for personal protection and freedom is about the most rediculous and evil thing(not that they believe in evil) there is, next to your personal faith which they also tout as equally dangerous. Oh and if you care about unborn Children then you are also a danger...a potential Paul Hill just waiting to unload on them in the parking lot on an abortion clinic. Must not speak about this no Sir or you are dangerous. So, there you have it, the ravings of a mad man and how I see it.
Last edited by C. Cash on Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
I think you'll find Martial law trumps Posse Comitatus. And, it definitely would if ordered. Military personnel would have to make up their own minds as to whether they would enforce that order or desert.
I cry BS that military personnel are being trained to conduct ops against US citizens. They are trained and continue to train in MOUT to conduct themselves in these times of a kindler, gentler world. The more our military acts as a police keeping force.
I was only in the military for four years and I never heard anything about this. Granted that was a long time ago. Rumor mill, pot stirring, whatever you want to call it.
Horse crapp .
That guy is a Dumb A##. Never heard such a crock of sh%^ in my life.
Yes C.Cash there would be starting with the Officer and SNCO ranks. We swore an oath to suport and deffend the Constitution first then obey the President.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
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[quote="Mike Hunter"]Humm… Lets see 22 years in the military, nope never been asked. If this had really come up as a topic of conversation in the military, it would have made BIG news. ..And just look at the source, “some guy named Scott who was a buddy of mineâ€
If I can't shoot or pee off my own back porch when I want to then I'm not free and I won't live there. Thank you God for my freedom!
[quote="Mike-in-WV"][quote="Mike Hunter"]Humm… Lets see 22 years in the military, nope never been asked. If this had really come up as a topic of conversation in the military, it would have made BIG news. ..And just look at the source, “some guy named Scott who was a buddy of mineâ€
The Seals training at Coronado were asked that question 20 years ago, or something to that effect. I believe it went something like "How would you feel about forcibly disarming American citizens?" I don't know if it was part of their psychological testing or if the question was real, and I don't think the Seals knew either, but it was asked. I talked to a couple of them that weren't exactly at ease with it. I seem to remember that it all stopped right after the Berlin wall came down in 1989. BTW, they both answered that they would follow orders and only later got to thinking about what it might mean.
Thinking about it now, it doesn't seem likely that only elite forces would be tasked with this type of job. There just wouldn't be enough of them, so it may just have been part of the psychobabble they they have to endure.
During 18+ of service. I took an oath. Enemies foreign and domestic. I was in an arms room once upon a time. That had a very large supply of Springfield 03's. Which were outside the regular unit TO&E. So I just had to ask. During the riots of the 60's. They had a big problem with snipers and could do very little. This was the corrective action taken. In addition anyone on gaurd duty has had the use of deadly force. Also remember that some of our present enemies do not wear uniforms.
JReed wrote:Blaine they still exist I was only making a joke about the fact that the Army doesn't like to talk about them.
I've been so removed for over 15 years, and I don't keep up, I really don't know. When I speak of such things, it is all prior to 1992, going back to 1972.
To think that Americans will not do this is naive. Look at Chicago in the late 90's. Police teams going through the public housing tennaments searching without warrant for weapons. Look at Waco. hundreds of officers killing people who up to that point had not threatened anyone with the "arsenal". Other crimes were commited that the Sheriff had jurisdiction over but ATF? No. It does not have to be the military either Cops infringe on rights every day. I know I am one and have seen this. No i am not a hater of justice but just the opposite. I love our Justice system and the Bill of Rights. The problem is many young officers dont even know or care about these rights. I have argued vehemntly about the so called Patriot Act with officers. Out of about 50 officers I was the only one opposed. Why because the over riding feeling was "security at any cost". Many of these officers dont mind subverting the Bill of Rights as long as it is others and not them. I know this is not popular and may not exist where you live. In New Mexico however in my 16 years as an officer this is what i see.
To flip the coin, as they say, some 15-16 years ago our Sheriff came to us during a meeting and asked: "How many of you will stand with me in defiance of a Federal order calling for the forcible disarmament of the citizens of our county?" ISTR two bodies that didn't have their hands raised; two faces that were gone inside 30 days or so. I don't know the current Sheriff that well, but I asked him how he stood there, didn't receive the answer I wanted, so... I haven't voted for him. Since he ran unopposed his first election, I'm hoping someone opposes him this race. So far, me and the former game warden are unanimous in our lack of support for his re-election.
Griff,
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Griff wrote:To flip the coin, as they say, some 15-16 years ago our Sheriff came to us during a meeting and asked: "How many of you will stand with me in defiance of a Federal order calling for the forcible disarmament of the citizens of our county?" ISTR two bodies that didn't have their hands raised; two faces that were gone inside 30 days or so. I don't know the current Sheriff that well, but I asked him how he stood there, didn't receive the answer I wanted, so... I haven't voted for him. Since he ran unopposed his first election, I'm hoping someone opposes him this race. So far, me and the former game warden are unanimous in our lack of support for his re-election.
In Catron County here in Neew Mexico i believed they passed a County Resolution that all homes must have arms in them. This was big news back in the 90's. I thought it was great
My dad serve in the National Guard in MA in the early 60's and told me how they actively trained for "riot control", and even though never directly ordered to fire on civilians, it was understood that if it came to that, they would.
I know, this is the National Guard and not directly any branch of armed service, but it begs the question:
Do you reallly think that if a lwas was passed outlawing all guns and the people began open revolt, (rightfully so,) that the armed services wouldn't be called in to supress any uprisings?
I bet if the state andloacl police couldn't contain it, and if the national guard coudn't, then the other branches would be called in to fight "terrorism" at home.
Whether or not the soldiers would actual follow that order as someone above stated, would be up to them.
I don't personally think the US govt would hesitate to kill its own people to accomplish what they want for this world.
I was in the 82nd Airborne when we went to a charming place called Oxford Ms, and you can bet your azz that we were armed and I would have defended my self or any men under my command.I was ordered there by the President of the US.
The people shooting at us were citizens of the US!! I will await the flame about States Rights, Doug born and raised in Virginia.
canonsix wrote:I was in the 82nd Airborne when we went to a charming place called Oxford Ms, and you can bet your azz that we were armed and I would have defended my self or any men under my command.I was ordered there by the President of the US.
The people shooting at us were citizens of the US!! I will await the flame about States Rights, Doug born and raised in Virginia.
I'm not familiar with this event.
When did you visit MS and why would they shoot at you?
1960's?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
canonsix wrote:I was in the 82nd Airborne when we went to a charming place called Oxford Ms, and you can bet your azz that we were armed and I would have defended my self or any men under my command.I was ordered there by the President of the US.
The people shooting at us were citizens of the US!! I will await the flame about States Rights, Doug born and raised in Virginia.
Being shot at and then shooting back in your situation is much different than going in after innocents and their weapons after a disaster or political change. The difference is night and day Doug.
Though I think that this is mostly junk, the recent forced vaccinations in Maryland were scary as can be. A wake call, as was Katrina and the stupidity that went on there..
Last edited by C. Cash on Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Sept 30 1962,landed Oxford Ms ,a black man was attempting to enroll at Ole Miss, locals were less than overjoyed.The first firefight I ever got into was not in a foreign country but on the east side of Ole Miss.The 101st Abn had troops there as well as the Ms NG.
Ole Miss wasw supposed to be invaded by a retired BG name of Walker, with "hundreds of heavly armed men from Texas" they never got there.
Doug
C.Cash I do agree that they are different, but US troops have been and will be sent to "disarm" US citizens.We manned road blocks around OLe Miss and no one got into the area with weapons,and as you can imagine that did not sit well, with the locals .The difference may be small but it has happened. Doug
*sigh* When National Guard are working for their state, they are not US Armed Forces, they are under the Governer of that state. Like I said, I was on the Ohio State Campus that day and many hordes of dirty Hippies tried to provoke violence there, as well......I myself was assaulted on the way to class; I tried my best, unarmed, to rid the world of a scumbag commie.
First, what part of "National" Guard relates only to an individual State? Second, I do remember Kent State...I was in my second week of ASA training and our commander made a statement to our class, "it deserves those commies good" and "I would expect that ya'll would defend our government as those guardsmen did". It might have just been a comment, but the intent was received; the rights of the citizens are only what we in power let them believe they have.
I doubt its a regularly asked question or a requirement of any kind. But its silly to think it cant, wont, or hasn't hapenned. Hell the Patriot act makes it obvious. You can nit pick over who gave the orders but to the Americans in question I bet thats a moot point.
The events in the 60's involving racism & the states refusing to acknoledge equal rights to minorities is almost an exception. I say almost because they shouldn't have been at the school. They should have been rounding up local leo & civil leaders that allowed segregation to persist, the state gov't should have been overrun not the students & school.
Kent state just shouldn't have happenned I dont think.
JMHO but citizens shouldn't be fired upon by their own military except under the most extreme cases & after all other avenues have been exhausted. Same goes for state military & leo organizations.
Theres a reason that the first Americans feared a standing army & wanted the people to be the defineing force militarilly, judicially & punitively.
We gave up those responsibilities & abuses are to be expected.
Luckilly the vast majority of our civil servants , both military & civilian, are great upstanding folks so abuses are uncommon.
Didnt we fight a revolution because Our troops fired upon our citizens? If it happened in the 18th century dont tell me it cant again. "Oh no Steve this is a Democracy now" No sir we are supposed to be a republic governed by a Supreme Law but it seems no one remembers this anymore. I respect all mimlitary personnel and all LE officers but think of this. If there are 100 men in a unit and only two or three speak out against what they percieve is "uncontitutional conduct" Then will they not be put down? Will not their officers and NCOs have the final say as to what is legal and not just like all of history? It has happened and can happen again.
I guess my long range concerns would include the fact that many of our so called leaders want to make us one world, and the idea of UN Peacekeeper forces stepping into a disaster such as huge earthquakes or storms of major proportions in order to "keep the peace" could see some treatment by them that could be very foreign to our thinking and what we would expect. I have always believed that grabbing guns is a major goal of all the politicians we despise. I think a lot of us will get our eyes opened up big time in the coming years ahead.
To hell with them fellas, buzzards gotta eat same as the worms.
Outlaw Josey Wales
I'm sure this is all a crock, as everyone seems to agree.
That being said, you know there are a few politicians - maybe with the last name of "Clinton" - that have had dreams about this - along with every other anti-gunner and commie in this country!
Old Time Hunter wrote:First, what part of "National" Guard relates only to an individual State? Second, I do remember Kent State...I was in my second week of ASA training and our commander made a statement to our class, "it deserves those commies good" and "I would expect that ya'll would defend our government as those guardsmen did". It might have just been a comment, but the intent was received; the rights of the citizens are only what we in power let them believe they have.
All National Guard units belong to a State It's a proven fact that the hippies were being stirred up by commies...... The were also violent and their action extended the war in SE Asia, caused the deathes of POWs and forced congress to abandon the Allies in South Vietnam.....better read up on your history and civics classes, man
Its a bunch of BS from someone that probably subscribes to the conspiracy theory that the CIA conducted the 911 bombings as well. I have heard the topic discussed on wheather or not US Soldiers would ever be capable or utilized of performing a combat mission in CONUS, however, official US Army comments general concensus state that local and federal authorities would have jurisdiction. I beleive that it is probable to expect that military agencies my be expected to perform some security details.
Well Blaine, seems we have a difference in opinion...see, don't really need a history book to tell me what I personally experienced and in real life. Not that I agreed with the commies, but with the belief that this country is supposed to idolize certain rights, one of which is "Free Speech and the Right to Assembly". When a government force is directed to inhibit or end those rights, under ANY guise, I believe it is being totalitarian. Regarding the final authority of whom controls the "National Guard", that happens to be the "Federal" government. Yes, we offer lipservice as to the Governor of individual states having the authority to direct "his or her" Guard troops, but since the US absorbed the "State Militias" after the Spanish-American War into the "new" 'National Guard' the real control has been abdicated by the Federal government. Same training, weapons, and strategy are all directed by the Feds.
Not that I agreed with the commies, but with the belief that this country is supposed to idolize certain rights, one of which is "Free Speech and the Right to Assembly".
Peaceably, Sir, peaceably. The cowardly/violent surrounded themselves with the peaceful and the peaceful stupidly decided to stay in place. You can't have it both ways. You probably don't remember that at the peace accords in Paris, the VC were about ready to make concessions, but did not after the peace movement took on a life of it's own (fueled by commies) in this country. Your buddies the peaceful hippies extended the war, and cost lives.
Never been even remotely associated with the "hippie's" or the peace movement...in fact, you are the first one to ever offer that connotation. I can forgive you though, because you do not know me.
Kent State was almost three years before the first peace talks in Paris even started. From your dialog, it can be bridged to the very implications that both Stalin and Hitler made against domestic dissatisfaction and costing lives to attain political goals. You are absolutely correct in one summation though, we can not have it both ways; We are either free or not. By the way, I do not remember the students carrying weapons at Kent State.
Old Time Hunter wrote:Never been even remotely associated with the "hippie's" or the peace movement...in fact, you are the first one to ever offer that connotation. I can forgive you though, because you do not know me.
Kent State was almost three years before the first peace talks in Paris even started. From your dialog, it can be bridged to the very implications that both Stalin and Hitler made against domestic dissatisfaction and costing lives to attain political goals. You are absolutely correct in one summation though, we can not have it both ways; We are either free or not. By the way, I do not remember the students carrying weapons at Kent State.
We're not at odds, you and I....... Please be assured that the Enemy, both forty years ago and today, follows the news and pulse of THEIR enemy and will used every fracture and protest against us. The commies of the latter war are now in power and are directly against us as opposed to merely using the hippies against us. You won't find much of the truth of this in the moderan, liberal recounting of these events....
Now, are we headed that way? We have less and less folks that have a real clear picture or real right and wrong are. Liberal education, the breakdown of the family, etc. has helped this process along. You'd think that it would be easier to direct these types of folks. Still too many independant thinkers though with weaponry to make it happen, IMHO. If we continue down our current path to a Liberal Utopia and lock arms with the UN and it gets real teeth, we may in fact be in a world of hurt in this department. That is my major concern. The party of tolerance will be the first one to take you away for "hate speech" if you dare to say in a public setting that you believe homosexuality is immoral because of what the Bible says. They think your desire to own a personal firearm for personal protection and freedom is about the most rediculous and evil thing(not that they believe in evil) there is, next to your personal faith which they also tout as equally dangerous. Oh and if you care about unborn Children then you are also a danger...a potential Paul Hill just waiting to unload on them in the parking lot on an abortion clinic. Must not speak about this no Sir or you are dangerous. So, there you have it, the ravings of a mad man and how I see it.
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