Have manufactures lost interest in lever gun development?

[tomtex]

It seems to me that gun manufactures ,have lost interest in new lever gun development . I wonder what others think?

[Old Ironsights]

I agree, though between the Winchester, Marlin, BLR and Savage designs, there's not a lot left to be refined.

OTOH I think Savage is missing the boat by not reintroducing the 99 in super-modern steels - especially in a 3-barrel .358/.308/.243 TD configuration.

[SFRanger7GP]

The companies have not lost interest, the consumers have lost interest. If it isn't black, tactical (whatever that means) and some type of composite, it gets very little attention now days. I hardly ever go to gunshows anymore because they have turned into a "tactical wonderland for armchair commandos".

[Kansas Ed]

I can't imagine why consumers have lost interest in lever guns...3 extra safeties, cheap sights, substandard wood, 8lb triggers...who'da thunk it??? People should be just swarming all over the new crop of lever actions....

Ed

[jnyork]

The companies have not lost interest, the consumers have lost interest. If it isn't black, tactical (whatever that means) and some type of composite, it gets very little attention now days

That.

can't imagine why consumers have lost interest in lever guns...3 extra safeties, cheap sights, substandard wood, 8lb triggers...who'da thunk it??? People should be just swarming all over the new crop of lever actions....

That too.

[olyinaz]

It seems to me that gun manufactures ,have lost interest in new lever gun development . I wonder what others think?

Given that Mossberg and Rossi and Henry have introduced new lever guns over the last few years (and promise to deliver more) and the Italians continue to give us new variants, I'd have to disagree. It's a still a good time to be a lever gunner I think.

Ed makes a VERY good point, however I will have to say that those problems have infected American gun manufacturing for decades now. I've got a nearly 30 year old Model 94 that shoots just fine but would be an embarrassment to any true craftsman anywhere. Same goes for my older Glenfield .30-30 - it looks to have been made in the Soviet Union with a trigger that would make a Mosin-Nagant stand up proud.

Oly

[J Miller]

"I" am a consumer. "I" have not lost interest in new lever action rifles.

However, since the late 1980s the American manufacturers have made little that interest me, and much that turns me off.

I can't imagine why consumers have lost interest in lever guns...3 extra safeties, cheap sights, substandard wood, 8lb triggers...who'da thunk it??? People should be just swarming all over the new crop of lever actions....

Ed

Ed put it very succinctly with his comment above. To that I'll add excessively obese wood as found on Marlins, and the extra weight as found on the new Henrys.

So I'd love to purchase a new American made lever action rifle, but sadly there is little to peak my interest.
I also forgot to mention that they have for the most part priced their products out of my reach. Something the foreign manufacturers have already done.

Joe

[FWiedner]

Psueudo-military black rifles with modular designs are where the much of the attention of the up-and-coming generation of shooters is focused and where the money is. The Forever War is creating more new shooters than CAS ever could.

Old shooters have some money for collecting a diminishing supply of over-priced used guns, but returning vets and bangers will more than likely look for what they are familiar with and follow that pattern for the next 40 years.

Follow the money.

[Ben_Rumson]

I’m thinking folks expect too much for too little money... Some say an Uberti 73 is too pricey... Whattayagonnado... Sheesh!

[Timothy]

If we all had our way we'd own and shoot nothing but original guns sold at least 50 years ago. Theres no money in that. Its no wonder the mfgs dont pay us guys much attention!

[DPris]

The market as a whole has limited interest in new levergun development.

The Browning BLR soldiers along amidst complaints that it "ain't traditional" enough, but not in huge volume.

Ruger's .44 levergun was dropped due to lack of interest, i.e. it didn't have a hammer.

If Savage brought back the 99 in good quality, I seriously doubt it'd sell well.

Denis

[rimrock]

noone takes their kids into the woods carrying a levergun, and certainly vidoe games don't feature any leverguns. the kids seek out only what they know. I was born in the 50's and never went hunting with my dad, my first centerfire was a bolt gun. I didn't become interested in levers until the most recent 4-5 years.

rimrock

[L_Kilkenny]

I'm not seeing a major tacticool rifle rush around here at gun shops or gun shows. Sure there are some but I see many many more hunting guns than evil black guns. IMO, the reason you don't see much new development is most hunters/shooters (by a long shot) prefer bolt guns and semi's. Let's face it (we have to be honest here), it's a very rare occasion when a lever gun is the better choice. The other options are better guns for a majority of jobs and equal to the lever gun in most of the remaining cases. A shooter/hunter may not need the range/accuracy a .308 bolt gun or the fast follow up shots of a semi but most shooters aren't willing to limit themselves for the sake of history. 99% of lever gun fans shoot lever guns because of history and romance as much for the design of the gun. We grew up watching westerns and lever guns were cool. Today's buyers grew watching Miami Vice (or later TV) and playing video games not westerns.

Guess the question we should ask is why would we want manufactures to have any interest? I can have more history and romance with a pre-owned 1894 or an old Marlin than I ever could with a modern production lever gun and I could care less if they ever come out with a different/new lever gun. All they'd do is screw it up anyway.

LK

[Old Savage]

There is a made in 1896 30-30 octagon barreled rifle at the local gun shop for $2995. Has all of what everybody wants and none of what they don't I have one better with half round but the coveted Winchester cross bolt safety and I doubt it would fetch $700 but it is a wonderful rifle very well done with beautiful wood, crescent butt plate bead blasted or flat finish, very good action and very accurate and fast for a 30-30.

[Dave]

I saw a chart recently that showed leverguns represent about 2% of gun sales lately. It can be hard to explain to someone why they should choose a lever that costs about $450 with no scope and is dropping off at 200 yards when he can buy a bolt gun for $300 with a scope that is a laser beam to 200 and not dropping much at 300.

[Griff]

Someone once said, "if I have to explain it to you, then you wouldn't understand." Even if you include CAS, a levergun is a niche market. Interest has nothing to do with it... profit and return on investment are the end all and be all of manufacturing.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Winchester/FN/Browning/Miroku bother making their reproductions.

[AJMD429]

The companies have not lost interest, the consumers have lost interest. If it isn't black, tactical (whatever that means) and some type of composite, it gets very little attention now days. I hardly ever go to gunshows anymore because they have turned into a "tactical wonderland for armchair commandos".

The market as a whole has limited interest in new levergun development. The Browning BLR soldiers along amidst complaints that it "ain't traditional" enough, but not in huge volume.
Ruger's .44 levergun was dropped due to lack of interest, i.e. it didn't have a hammer.
If Savage brought back the 99 in good quality, I seriously doubt it'd sell well.

EXACTLY!

It isn't just the EBR-consumers who fail to stimulate interest in levergun development...it is levergunners as well; overall, most seem to get upset if a levergun doesn't feature blued steel, walnut stocks with hand-rubbed oil finish, side-port loading through the receiver into a tubular magazine, etc. Those are nice characteristics, but if we immediately recoil at any 'new-fangled' or innovative design, why on Earth would the manufacturers want to cater to us...? They only have two real options:

• a) make 'authentic' reproductions, which costs big bucks to do (especially if you have to do it overseas to avoid the lawyer-safeties, etc.), so the price will cater to those whose purchase alternative would be a 'pristine' condition 1880's original.
  
  b) make 'functional' reproductions, where the price is competitive with 'battered old truck-guns', but the fit and finish and lawyered-up designs will be offset by the affordable price.

We give them no other real CHOICE, since by and large we don't like stainless steel, synthetic stocks, one-piece stocks, tube-loading ports, box-magazines, modern (holo- or optical) sights, bipods, or any number of other potential changes/improvements.

Meanwhile, the black-rifle crowd just loves new-fangled stuff, and even the bolt-action crowd will accept pretty much anything new that adds to the durability, accuracy, or function of their bolt-actions.

I'm not saying it's 'bad' that levergunners tend to be more nostalgic than other gun owners, but it does tend to stifle innovation somewhat.

Now, having thought some more about it - there is one other option for manufacturers:

• c) make more-or-less 'traditionally designed' leverguns in much more potent cartridges, such as the ones we've seen glimpses of here on the forum - 500 S&W and 460 S&W come to mind.

I think the 'big name' manufacturers may have lost interest in leverguns, but several smaller manufacturers are indeed pushing the envelope. From the responses to those posts, there are some who 'dis' them, but certainly many voiced a great deal of interest, though the higher-than-WalMart prices were often criticized. Of course as several members pointed out, if the 'ideal' gun costs as much as two or three lesser ones, at some point in a person's life, he/she realizes that you could go on forever buying lots of 'almost perfect' guns, not quite being satisfied, and spend way more money in the long run, vs. if you find the 'ideal' one and just get it and be done with it...

So, perhaps if we don't get all upset if they get off the 'traditional' path a bit, and we support them with our dollars we'd be spending on other stuff anyway, some of these innovative smaller manufacturers will build the leverguns of the 21st Century for us.

[J Miller]

How about the manufacturers just making a decent lever action that we run of mill working Joes can afford? There's a great many of us that simply cannot afford those rifles that cost over $1,000.00 for any reason. That's why we buy used. It doesn't have to be fancy, just good.

Traditional Marlins and Winchesters and to a degree Rossis fit that bill. But Winchesters are gone, Marlin may or may not be and Rossi made guns are limited to one design and about a half dozen choices of caliber. About the only other choice we have is the new Mossberg.

I suppose that's better than nothing at all, but it's not much.

Joe

[Streetstar]

My nickname amongst my shooting bretheren is "big and useless " referencing my miscellaneous leverguns and the fact that i use them (with the 45/70 being my favorite in all platforms because i dont like chasing wounded game)

I thought my range report on my new TC 45/70 pistol was going to go "viral" due to this analogy amongst my aquaintances. And every deer season, if it is not the guide gun, it is my dad's old 30/30 that gets picked to go to the woods -----------

I am in the minority amongst my other shooting buddies (aged 30-39) --- they can rock and roll with AK's and .300 Win Mags all they want -- and to an extent, i have an AR hangup too, but the big medicine i usually reach for when i hunt in my state is a levergun. I like being different , but not at the expense of performance --- There is no performance loss where i hunt with my guide gun, and the guys with the 7mm and 300 mags are the ones that are a bit overgunned, with the excessive recoil and muzzle noise for the conditions .


Long story short -------- nobody in my little group questions how deadly my leverguns can be, but almost to a man, they just look at muzzle velocities and think using a levergun is silly when there are so many "better" platforms out there
BAH HUMBUG to all power factor of a 45/70 going 16-1700 fps is still pretty serious, as is a .30 WCF going 2100 fps --- .


Almost everyone i know has a levergun somewhere ----- but i seem to be the only one that actually uses mine -- thinking about this as a cross section of the shooting public, thats 1 out of maybe 15 people in my group alone that is interested in leverguns at all ------------ not enough for any manufacturer to consider new products. I think about the lukewarm response the winchester 88 got, which was a "modern" lever gun

[RIHMFIRE]

http://www.bighornarmory.com/

[olyinaz]

How about the manufacturers just making a decent lever action that we run of mill working Joes can afford? There's a great many of us that simply cannot afford those rifles that cost over $1,000.00 for any reason. That's why we buy used. It doesn't have to be fancy, just good.

Traditional Marlins and Winchesters and to a degree Rossis fit that bill. But Winchesters are gone, Marlin may or may not be and Rossi made guns are limited to one design and about a half dozen choices of caliber. About the only other choice we have is the new Mossberg.

I suppose that's better than nothing at all, but it's not much.

Joe

Noooo, not so fast there Joe.

Rossi Rio Grande:




Rossi 92:




Sorry!

Oly

[6pt-sika]

I own 26 lever action rifles at this time !

One Winchester 1894 of 1905 manufacture and all the rest are Marlin's (of course) and of the marlin's all except one were made before 1976 !

I would not have the lone post 1976 Marlin except for the fact that I wanted a ballard rifled fast twist 444 for 400 grain cast bullets !

I very rarely anymore shoot the Winchester but the 25 Marlin's get shot regularly !

To be honest I don't think any of the lever manufacturers can make anything new that I'd want anylonger

[claybob86]

It seems to me that gun manufactures ,have lost interest in new lever gun development . I wonder what others think?

What's to develop? John Browning and Marlin pretty much had it NAILED over 100 years ago as far as the slab sided, tube fed, side loading design that most of us like goes. Tweaks like metallurgy improvements, synthetic stocks, etc. are fine, but going much beyond that turns the levergun into something other than what attracts most of us to them in the first place.

[tomtex]

I want box magazine lever gun!

[tman]

Mossberg makes a Decent rippoff of the model 94 . Charge a $100 more. Refine it better. Chamber it in .338 marlin. Make it as close to as you can to the original. A nice trigger, decent walnut, at $500. might sell. A traditional lever chambered for a 300 yard Elk rifle might sell

[J Miller]

Oly,

Yeah, I forgot about the Rossi Marlin knock off. I'd like to test drive one, but I've yet to see one here in IL and I ain't gonna order one just for a look see.

Joe

[rimrock]

as indicated by the poster named "wind" with his 800 yd. shots with 38/55 on another part of this board, leverguns can reach way out there. they just aren't hyped enough in the wind rags. google "plunging fire" and you'll learn that levers have tactical applications. they work but they just seem so out-dated by so many. so many myths to be disputed, but too little time cuz we be shootin' 'em.

rimrock