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I am new to 'cast bullets.' In fact, I have never done it before. I have a 1903 1894 that has a mint bore and I ordered some ammo from Buffalo Arms, but my groups are just OK. I'd like to get em' tighter and have been told that slugging the bore and then ordering or making cast bullets to that diameter will most likely help.
How in the heck do you slug a bore? I don't have a clue. I've always used 'store bought' bullets for reloading and hunting. Here's a pic of this rifle. It's a button mag and is original in every way with exception to the rear sight which has been plugged. Lyman # 2 tang sight with a Beech Global front sight.
Got to learn sometime and now's as good as any. Thanks in Advance.
Thanks for the link and the tip on sluggin' the bore. The bore on this rifle is bright and shinny and the rifling is present, but not nearly defined as a new one. 1903 was awhile back and I think the rifle was used mainly for bench shootin'. I reckon it's seen quite a few rounds through it, but it has a nice clean looking spiral down the barrel. I can hit a pie plate at 100yrds everytime, but my groups are not as tight as I like. Might just be me. The sight alignment on the Lyman #2 sight with the Global front sight is a little tricky for my old eyes. Making sure you get the same sight alignment each time is the trick. However, I bet slugging the barrel will help. It's plenty accurate to hunt with. This is a collector and will only be used occasionaly on fair weather days. I haven't killed a deer with it yet, but will someday just for kicks.
I have taken the liberty of pasting in my handy dandy guide to slugging barrels.
Hope it is of some help.
Slugging a Barrel
There are lots of ways to slug a barrel. Here's how I do it.
First off you need to come up with a slug. I have used all sorts of things to slug barrels. Ideally, your slug should be just a few thousandths larger in diameter than the grooves you are slugging. If it is too big, you spend a lot of effort driving it into the muzzle in the first place. I have used soft cast bullets, hard cast bullets, soft lead round balls, whatever I have laying around that is just a tad larger than the bore I am trying to measure. I have even taken a 44 caliber soft lead round ball and hammered it down to a rough bullet shape in order to slug a 30 caliber rifle. Some folks also use lead fishing sinkers, if you can still buy them where you live.
When I slug a rifle I lay the gun down on a soft towel on my bench. Or else I support it in a felt lined rifle rack. I do not jam it in place so it does not move. I allow it to slide slightly with each hammer blow, hence the soft towel or felt to protect the finish. I used to slug bores completely dry, but lately I have taken to running a patch dampened with Ballistol down the bore. You don't have to soak the bore. Frankly, I don't think it makes much difference if the bore is lubricated or not, I've done it both ways and don't really see much difference.
Whenever possible, I will slug a bore from the chamber end. However with revolvers and most lever guns it can only be done from the muzzle end. I start with a short rod, only around 8 or 10 inches long. It is much easier to control a short rod when you are whacking it than trying to whack the end of a 3 foot long rod while still trying to hold onto the gun. I grasp the muzzle in my left hand, and jam the slug into the muzzle so it holds still. I also hold the rod in place with my left hand, leaving my right hand free to use the hammer. I place the end of the short rod on the center of the slug to get it started, grasping both the muzzle and the rod in my fist. I like to use brass rods. Some prefer wood, but I find wood splinters and shatters. I start with a brass rod about 10 inches long. I have a few lengths. 5/16" diameter will work for everything from 38 (.357) on up to 45.
Most any hammer will do, I have a nice 8 ounce ball pein hammer that works well.
The key here is to not hit the muzzle with your hammer. I start with the short rod. Getting the slug completely into the bore is the hardest part. Once it gets into the bore, it moves more easily. Don't be scared, I have never gotten a slug stuck in a barrel. Just be careful. I change the short rod to a longer rod long before my hammer gets anywhere near the muzzle so I don't risk striking the barrel. I change over to a 3 foot rod to run the slug all the way out the bore of a rifle. I keep a soft cloth by the chamber, so the slug will fall out onto the cloth without marring it.
With a revolver I stand the gun up with the barrel horizontal and the butt resting on the towel on the bench. The procedure is the same. I grasp the muzzle and the rod with my left hand, I jam the slug into the bore, and I control the rod with my left fist. The right hand is for the hammer. A 12 inch long 5/16" rod usually works for all my revolvers.
A few facts about slugging a barrel. The slug only measures the narrowest diameter of the rifling. If there is excessive wear near the chamber, like with some old rifles, the slug will slide along easily through the worn part, it has already taken the shape of the narrowest part of the bore. With a new gun, this should not be a concern. However with an old gun, it can give you a feel for if there is wear in the bore.
The slug must completely fill the rifling grooves. If the slug did not completely fill the grooves, any measurement you take off of it is meaningless. When your slug emerges, look for lengthwise drag marks on it. You should see these marks on both the low spots on the slug, corresponding to the lands of the rifling, and the high spots, corresponding to the grooves. If you don't have drag marks on the high spots, you may not have completely filled the rifling grooves, and any measurements taken from the slug are meaningless.
I hear a lot of guys say you have to measure a slug with a micrometer so you can measure it right down to the .0001 level. Frankly, I think a standard caliper is fine for measuring a slug. Measuring down to .001 is fine, particularly on a dial caliper, where you can interpolate what the dial is telling you between the tick marks. A digital caliper will round off to the nearest .0005, so you may not get as accurate a measurement. But using a micrometer that measures down to .0001 on a soft lead slug is overkill, in This Cowboy's Humble Opinion. Just the act of closing the tool on the slug will deform the lead a couple of tenths, killing the accuracy of the micrometer.
Obviously, you want to measure across the high spots of the slug, to get your groove depth diameter. This is simple if the rifling has an even number of grooves, so that you are measuring across the diameter of the slug. Some barrels though, like many S&W revolvers have 5 grooves. It is very difficult to get an accurate measurement on a slug made from a barrel with an odd number of grooves with a caliper or a micrometer. If you try to add the depth of one side of the rifling, there will usually be some error involved. It ain't impossible, but it is tough.
Slugging a bore is really very simple, I have made it sound complicated. It usually only takes me about 5 minutes to set up to slug a bore, and about 5 minutes to run the slug all the way through. The key is finding a suitable slug just a little bit oversized, and don't whack the barrel!
I don't know where we're going but there's no sense being late.
The 32-40 is one of my favorites and I have two Win 94s chambered for it along with a Hi-Wall. Both levers are 1923 mfg and are good shooters. Are you having any chambering issues with the cast bullets you are using? Reason I ask is that all of the gas checked bullets I have tried want to engrave the rifling as the Winchesters usually have close dimensions in this area. I drew up a gas check bullet and had Accurate Molds cut a two cavity for me and it's the trick for 94 Winchesters.
Driftwood Johnson,
Thanks a million for info. I'll copy and paste same onto a word document and print same for future reference.
Marvin S,
I have not reloaded any cast bullets yet, but bought some ammo from Buffalo Bore. Thanks for your knowledge and experience. I'll make note of this for sure when I get done slugging the barrel before I order any cast bullets.
Mescalero,
Great to hear from you. Hope you're doing well. I'll keep that in mind now that I'm back on line. Been busy building a cabin and enjoying my retirement. Your a good man. Thanks. How's it going my friend? Send me a PM...My Wife and Daughters are doing well and get their Indian names this summer in Toponish, WA. I'll be going to the ceremony. Best wishes....
If you spend a few weeks reading there you'll be far in advance of 99% of all the rest of the casters in the world.
Remember this rule: Every bore is a rule unto itself. It will serve you well if you heed it.
The limiting factor for slug size is, will it chamber? Let's say that your bore is .320 (I have never owned a .32-40, sorry). Let's say your mould drops a bullet at .324, now if it was me, I'd lube that slug without sizing if I could, make a dummy round and see if it would chamber. If it will, then I would start working up a load with it.
Usually, you want at least .001 over bore size, and .002 or .003 is better. Usually. Now with my 94 in .38-55, I got lucky. The bore and the bullet (as cast) were the same, .3795. At first I was worried, so I tried it. After more than 500 rounds of 1750 + fps loads and zero leading, I call it a sucess. But I wouldn't have put money on it prior to testing.
Now I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Driftwood about the use of a mic over a caliper. When I was being trained to use a mic, if I had gotten wrong readings off of a lead slug because I wasn't gentle enough with the mic, well, it wouldn't have been pretty. Precision tools are supposed to be used gently, with enphasis on the gentle part. They aren't C clamps!
If you spend a few weeks reading there you'll be far in advance of 99% of all the rest of the casters in the world.
Remember this rule: Every bore is a rule unto itself. It will serve you well if you heed it.
The limiting factor for slug size is, will it chamber? Let's say that your bore is .320 (I have never owned a .32-40, sorry). Let's say your mould drops a bullet at .324, now if it was me, I'd lube that slug without sizing if I could, make a dummy round and see if it would chamber. If it will, then I would start working up a load with it.
Usually, you want at least .001 over bore size, and .002 or .003 is better. Usually. Now with my 94 in .38-55, I got lucky. The bore and the bullet (as cast) were the same, .3795. At first I was worried, so I tried it. After more than 500 rounds of 1750 + fps loads and zero leading, I call it a sucess. But I wouldn't have put money on it prior to testing.
Now I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Driftwood about the use of a mic over a caliper. When I was being trained to use a mic, if I had gotten wrong readings off of a lead slug because I wasn't gentle enough with the mic, well, it wouldn't have been pretty. Precision tools are supposed to be used gently, with enphasis on the gentle part. They aren't C clamps!
Good luck with your rifle and have a ball!
Cat
Cat,
Appreciate your knowledge and experience as well. Thanks
and now's as good as any. Thanks in Advance.
Not sure yet what the names will be for my wife and girls.