110 grain bullets in 357 rifle

[JNG]

I have been using Barnes 110 bullets in my j frame for ccw. Since a box of those bullets cost more then the monthly payment on my first car, I buy bulk 110's to practice with. Long story short, my wife was with me and asked to shoot a few out of my Winny 94 in .357. Surprise, surprise, they shot great and she loved them. I had her try some 125 grain bullets, she liked the 110's better. Who would know. My question is, that was the first time that 38spl cases were used in my rifle. I would prefer to us .357 cases as I shoot heavier bullets out of it, at .357 velocity. I would like to load 110's in the .357 to stay away from the crud problem. I can not find any loads for the 110's in .357. So the question is, can I load the 110's in the longer brass and still get the velocity and no hang fire with those jewels? By the way I am using Win.231 powder.
Thanks

[AJMD429]

Ammoguide.com lists about 41 loads for .357 & 110 grain bullets, from 1200 to 2400 (rifle) fps, but as a member I get in trouble if I just copy and paste their loads elsewhere. http://ammoguide.com/

It's worth the minimal fee to become a member, though. About half their loads in most cases are from powder or bullet makers, and have the references to those websites or manuals, and the others are from 'users' just like on any other forum.

If I had any 'pet' loads I'd used myself for that combo, I'd gleefully post them, but I use the heavier bullets only so far. Someone will pipe up soon with some data no doubt.

Here's what their data look like (click to see the larger version), only members get the 'details' and each load links to another page describing details and ballistics, etc.

357 ammoguide sample - 1.JPG

If you have a favorite powder, you can also pull up a list of all loads (for just one cartridge, or for all cartridges) using that powder.

[J Miller]

There is quite a few loads for the 110 gr bullet in .357s over at Handloads.com:
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=
Their site is free, no cost to you.

Joe

[Terry Murbach]

I have been using Barnes 110 bullets in my j frame for ccw. Since a box of those bullets cost more then the monthly payment on my first car, I buy bulk 110's to practice with. Long story short, my wife was with me and asked to shoot a few out of my Winny 94 in .357. Surprise, surprise, they shot great and she loved them. I had her try some 125 grain bullets, she liked the 110's better. Who would know. My question is, that was the first time that 38spl cases were used in my rifle. I would prefer to us .357 cases as I shoot heavier bullets out of it, at .357 velocity. I would like to load 110's in the .357 to stay away from the crud problem. I can not find any loads for the 110's in .357. So the question is, can I load the 110's in the longer brass and still get the velocity and no hang fire with those jewels? By the way I am using Win.231 powder.
Thanks

WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU SHOOTING WHAT IS BY ALL ODDS THE MOST WORTHLESS 38 BULLET [ IN A 38SPL...] WHERE IT IS EVEN MORE WORTHLESS IN A 357MAG SIXGUN, AND NOW YOU WANT TO SHOOT IT IN A 357MAG RIFLE USING WHAT WOULD BE THE ABSOLUTELY WORST PICK OF PROPELLENTS IF YOU'RE INTERESTED AT ALL IN BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE ???
ELLUCIDATE ME, AS I KNOW NOTHING OBVIOUSLY.
BY THE WAY....THERE IS NO " CRUD PROBLEM " , ANOTHER INTERENET FALLACY OF IMMENSE PROPORTION.

[AJMD429]

WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU SHOOTING WHAT IS BY ALL ODDS THE MOST WORTHLESS 38 BULLET [ IN A 38SPL...] WHERE IT IS EVEN MORE WORTHLESS IN A 357MAG SIXGUN, AND NOW YOU WANT TO SHOOT IT IN A 357MAG RIFLE USING WHAT WOULD BE THE ABSOLUTELY WORST PICK OF PROPELLENTS IF YOU'RE INTERESTED AT ALL IN BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE ???

Terry, if I'm trying to recruit a shooting buddy, GENDER TRUMPS BALLISTICS everytime...!

...my wife was with me and asked to shoot a few out of my Winny 94 in .357. Surprise, surprise, they shot great and she loved them. I had her try some 125 grain bullets, she liked the 110's better.

As far as the 'crud' problem, I guess my gun(s) haven't read the book, because I've had very definite 'sticking' problems with a couple guns which had used lots of .38 Spl loads in .357 Mag chambers. A thorough cleaning restored things to normal. May have been high-residue powders or something, but it was enough to make extraction noticeably stiffer.

[J Miller]

JNG,

I missed the part where you were using 231 powder. Here is a load straight out of the Winchester Load Data Manual (Pre Hodgdon take over) for the 110 gr bullet and 231:

110gr JHP ... 231....8.8grs....1575fps.....42,500CUP

Winchester states they used an 8 3/8" barrel for these ballistics.

I have shot full magnum .357 loads with 231 using 158gr lead and jacketed bullets and they are NOT light loads. No were near the velocity as with slower powders, but you do get the pressure and muzzle blast.

Joe

[AJMD429]

Just looked at a couple of the powder-maker's sites, and...

• For 110 grain bullets, Alliant lists 9.7 grains of Unique as giving 1447 fps from a 6" barrel, and 19.5 grains of 2400 as giving 1670 from a 6" barrel, so they might be good starting points. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx
  
  For 110 grain bullets, Hihtavuori lists 18.5 grains of N110 as giving 1716 fps in a 7" barrel - http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/pdfs/Ha ... a-2006.pdf

I think both the above loads, and some similar ones, are listed on AmmoGuide as well.

Of course, ANY "data" you get from internet sources (or really anywhere), should be verified and assured to be within the same range as the factory/published data from powder or bullet makers. I don't even trust printed 'Reloading Manuals' unless I see another source with similar data.

[JNG]

Thanks for the responses. The first answer to why 110 in a .357 rifle is simply, SHE LIKES IT! After giving everthing away that I owned 30 years ago, I learned to just say (great,OK I'll load them). If your married, you may know what I mean. As for shooting the J frame for years, I have had a serious work injury that caused nerver damage to my right arm and an elbow on the left. I really am getting into .22's now. Also note previous post of mine on light 45-70 loads. It's stuff to not be able to do what you want.
The 110 bullet I picked for the J frame is the Barnes M/LE tactical bullet. All cooper and she holds straight and true through 3 water jugs popping just out the third and looks like something that I just picked under an ash tree. Gun likes it and on OK days I can knock over 5 plates with 5 shots in 6 to 8 seconds. I guess I have to go with the flow. After a shot or 2 with the Speer 135SB my shoots get sloopy. Still working on a workable load for my Bulldog.
Well, enough self pitty. Thanks again for the info, I will be reviewing it.

Thanks

[okdee]

The first answer to why 110 in a .357 rifle is simply, SHE LIKES IT! After giving everthing away that I owned 30 years ago, I learned to just say (great,OK I'll load them). If your married, you may know what I mean.
Thanks

Agreed 100% We shoot bullets ranging from 110gr to 160gr in ours.

[AJMD429]

A 110 grainer in a .357 probably is about like shooting a .32-20 stiff load - very pleasant to shoot. Not the 'maximum' you can do with .357, but plenty fun to shoot, and plenty good (with the right bullet construction) for much small game.

Also would be a potentially great home-defense/self-defense load for her.

[firefuzz]

According to my loading data you can approach 1,400 fps with W-231 out of a 6" barrelled pistol, that would be nothing to sneeze at. Add at least a couple of hundred feet per second for the carbine length barrel and I think that'd be a dandy light load, probably a little destructive with HP bullets but I bet they'd open.

I think most of us look towards heavier bullet in .357, but the late company Super-Vel had a whompus kitty load using 110gr bullets. Very little recoil but they had a "crack" to them you wouldn't soon forget. I wouldn't want to get shot with one.

As far as choosing a powder for a certain cartridge people have chidded me for years for using Red Dot in .38spec, 9mm, .45acp and light .357 loads. Are there better powders out there for those cartridges....you bet. But my loads get the bullet to the paper in a respectable fashion and I bought almost 40# of Red Dot several years ago for the princely sum of $1.00 a pound, been using it quite happily in those cartridges ever since and will continue to do so until it's all gone.

Rob

[El Chivo]

WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU SHOOTING WHAT IS BY ALL ODDS THE MOST WORTHLESS

I might like that bullet for rabbits and yotes, when just walking around.

I loaded for the 140 grain Barnes, and there's not much room in the case after that - it takes up room like a 180 grain lead bullet.

And I understand why you want to practice with the same weight bullet.

Are they accurate?

[86er]

Of note and interest, I have several cases of Remington 110gr 38 Spl +P+ that was given to me. My 5 yr old son shoots them out of an 18" leveraction rifle. The velocity is 2085 fps. They are accurate and have a lot of punch from the rifle at close range. We've not shot game with it and it is over-kill for plinking, but like I said it was free. There has not been any chamber problems in the rifle with a normal cleaning after every 250 - 300 rounds or so.

[meanc]

I happen to like the 110gr JHP, especially the Hornady XTP version.

At close to 2300fps, it will knock a coyote on it's butt at 150+ yds. Done it a few times, and even at that distance the wound channel was deep and wide. And armadillos at anything closer than 100yds go off like a gallon water jug.

At that speed though, I consider it more of a recreational/varmit round.

In a defensive situation I think the fireball coming out of the muzzle would do more to dissuade the bad guys.

[COSteve]

Interesting series of responses. So much for 'conventional wisdom'.

[JNG]

I did not picked 231 for my 642, kind of like a dog picking you. I made up a few along with other powders and loads, but with the 231 I struck gold. I've used 231 in the 45acp and 44spl., had it on had so what the hay. The fact is that little gun loves and shoots them better then any factory or hand load that I've used. Better and faster powders, you bet. Better target hits and follow through, never this good and I've had this jewel for 5-6 years. Never tried this combo before, wished I did. Bye the bye. Winchester 110 bulk not as good for accuracy, but close enough to practice with. I can understand folks not liking the 110. Question? Have you tried the Barnes all cooper 110? As the fella on tv stated (try it - you might like it). Thanks again for all info pro or con. Thats what I like about this forum. You learn and that is always good.

Thanks

[firefuzz]

Of note and interest, I have several cases of Remington 110gr 38 Spl +P+ that was given to me. My 5 yr old son shoots them out of an 18" leveraction rifle. The velocity is 2085 fps. They are accurate and have a lot of punch from the rifle at close range. We've not shot game with it and it is over-kill for plinking, but like I said it was free. There has not been any chamber problems in the rifle with a normal cleaning after every 250 - 300 rounds or so.

If you're only shooting .38's I don't think you'll ever have a problem. The "problem" can occur when shooting .357's in the same chamber after a shooting session with .38s before or without scrubbing the chamber. It used to be common practice to shoot a few jacketed bullets thru your revolver after a shooting session with wadcutter type ammo to "help clean the lead out" of the barrel. The problem is that in using .357's after using .38's is there can be a "ring" of carbon built up where the end of the .38 cases rested in the chamber. When the .357 cases extend over the carbon ring and then "press" it into the chamber when fired. I have seen 3 revolvers with rings in some of the chambers than can be explained no other way and several .22 rifles with rings in the chambers from using shorts then long rifles without cleaning.

Not saying it will happen, saying it can happen.

Rob

[crs]

firefuzz -
ditto on the 110 Super Vel JHP in a .357 rifle - the most accurate load I ever had for my W 1892. They are fun to shoot AND will shell out an armadillo PDQ; nothing will be left but the near side shell. The hot 110 JHP will make a mess of anything small within any range that you can hit it (dillers, jacks, coons, skunks, medium to large birds such as cormorants, turtles, varmints, etc) . Unless you can make the head shot, I do not recommend them for any thing that you plan to eat.