1887 Winchester thoughts

[KWK]

The local library has a copy of the 2012 Gun Digest. There's an article in it on the 1887 Winchester lever action shotgun. The author wonders aloud if that action scaled down for .44-40 wouldn't have made for a spiffy lever action rifle.

Comments?

I've no experience with the 1887. It is a clever action, though.

[J Miller]

Well, considering there was already the 1873 and 1892 chambered for 44 WCF I doubt if that would have sold very well.
There was an experimental cartridge built on the 12 gauge all metal case for the 1887 though.

70-150Cartridge.jpg

That would be fun to shoot .... once

Joe

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

In the mid 1880's John Browning already had a pump Shotgun the model 93 up and running but Oliver Winchester didn't want a pump gun. He felt their market was leverguns. So, Browning designed the 87 in something like 30 days mostly in protest. Once Winchester saw the market share they were loosing to the 1882 Bannerman Spencer Pump he produced Browning's 93. The 93 was later replaced by the 97 pump which was made until 1957.

The lever throw for the 87 feels like all the guts are falling out of it.

[J Miller]

The lever throw for the 87 feels like all the guts are falling out of it.

Kind of looks like it too.

Joe

[Rube Burrows]

I love my 87 but I dont know if I would like it as a lever rifle.

[KWK]

In the mid 1880's John Browning already had a pump Shotgun the model 93 up and running but Oliver Winchester didn't want a pump gun. He felt their market was leverguns.

That author also noted Browning had suggested the pump was the way to go--and in the end he was proven correct. The author also acknowledged the popularity of the 1873 would have prevented investment in an 1887 derivative for short cased rifle rounds.

The lever throw for the 87 feels like all the guts are falling out of it.

I guess JMB didn't mind exposing his privates; the 1885, 1887, and 1894 all drop their britches when cycled.

[eagles]

I have a Coyote Cap limited edition gun ,I had him make as a custom piece . It has a heavy rifled barrel and is set up to shoot the longer 2 5/8 Brass cases made by Rocky Mt Cartridge to rifle specs, so much stronger than even a regular Brass 12 gauge hull. I waited a LONG time to get this done and he was a nightmare to deal with . NO one involved did the job right the first time . I had to have the gun sent to Reesers in Pa to fix all the screw ups which dealt more with a magazine tube that moved all over the place , fore arm wood that was warped and split when the gun was fired , burs on the action that are now smooth etc . First thing is, now this is so slick and smooth it is the only lever I have you can keep a good sight picture with through the cycle . Almost just open and close your hand . Gun is tested at over 45,000 psi and is super strong .May be the worlds most powerful lever action with 600 grain full bore hardened slugs at over 5000 ft pounds of energy . One problem is they did not recheck caps work on feeding and ejecting . If I put three shells in the magazine , the first thing is I have to be REAL careful as when the bolt is open the two extractors are popped up on the top and are SHARP. I sliced my hand open the first time I was shoving shells down in the magazine .Next once in there you have a 50-50 chance they will cycle on the first try and it often takes three times to get it to come out and feed . Once in the chamber you have a 40 percent chance it will eject the first time you try .AHHHH this is maddening . I guess I can send it back to Reesers .Anyone know a good guy to work on the 87. Do not say Cap NEVER EVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!! It would take a book to explain. Thanks

[Mescalero]

I have dry cycled one of the repos,
it is a lot more work than I care to deal with.

[eagles]

Not sure what that means or has to do with my question. I have a 94 XTR Big Bore 375, 94 Timber carbine in 450 Marlin, model 95 in 405, model 71 converted to 50-110 and this is by far the smoothest and fasted to work with the less effort of all of them.

[buckeyeshooter]

In the mid 1880's John Browning already had a pump Shotgun the model 93 up and running but Oliver Winchester didn't want a pump gun. He felt their market was leverguns. So, Browning designed the 87 in something like 30 days mostly in protest. Once Winchester saw the market share they were loosing to the 1882 Bannerman Spencer Pump he produced Browning's 93. The 93 was later replaced by the 97 pump which was made until 1957.

The lever throw for the 87 feels like all the guts are falling out of it.

But I'd love to have a repro in 10 ga!

[eagles]

It LOOKS that way , but mine feels like a half ounce of greased butter .

[mack]

If I recall correctly, the '87 is not a particularly strong lock up. The breach block and lever are of one piece on a single pivot pin/bolt. I'm not sure I would want to try one beyond shot shell pressures of the 1880's.

[eagles]

Not correct . The new ones are SUPER strong .The gun was lab tested to over 50,000 psi and the action showed NO signs of any problems .They kept going until the lever bent , action still was perfect . WAY stronger than most any lever .They used to have the lab tests on Coyote caps site and Edd Hubel the man known for his super long 12 gauge monsters called the 12 gauge from hell uses a model 1887 converted to a single shot for a lot of his work because of its enormous strength . Ask Ed , he has all of the lab tests done on the guns. He gets around 8000 ft pounds of energy from those super long special made rounds out of it .Try that with your Marlin etc .The new guns use forged parts and steel which are far better than the old models.

[tman]

u REALLY got to work the lever hard to keep it from jamming. It's more trouble than a pump, but, it's a Lever . I love mine.

[eagles]

Mine has never jammed , just either the shells don't come out in the lifter or go into the chamber and fail to extract . Cap claims to have fixed the stove pipe issues on his guns .

[tman]

Mine has never jammed , just either the shells don't come out in the lifter or go into the chamber and fail to extract . Cap claims to have fixed the stove pipe issues on his guns .

What he said, doesn't jam.

[eagles]

what he said , doesn't jam ????? You said you have to work the lever hard to keep it from jamming so I don;t know what this last post means.Anyone have a good number for Tom Lasiter who works on these ? I have 937-687-1039 but no answer or machine picks up so far

[tman]

what he said , doesn't jam ????? You said you have to work the lever hard to keep it from jamming so I don;t know what this last post means.Anyone have a good number for Tom Lasiter who works on these ? I have 937-687-1039 but no answer or machine picks up so far

Am agreeing with u. I misspoke. It works the way u described it

[hfcable]

In the mid 1880's John Browning already had a pump Shotgun the model 93 up and running but Oliver Winchester didn't want a pump gun. He felt their market was leverguns. So, Browning designed the 87 in something like 30 days mostly in protest. Once Winchester saw the market share they were loosing to the 1882 Bannerman Spencer Pump he produced Browning's 93. The 93 was later replaced by the 97 pump which was made until 1957.

The lever throw for the 87 feels like all the guts are falling out of it.

But I'd love to have a repro in 10 ga!

for a 10 gauge, you'd probably be better off getting one of the originals in 10 gauge, specifically the 1901 which was the 1887 in 10 ga. updated for smokeless powder. i have one now, and have had a couple of them. they are smooth and reliable, and nice looking interesting original winchester guns. they are still around , and sometimes at quite reasonable prices.

[buckeyeshooter]

thank you for the suggestion. I'll keep a lookout. I would enjoy shooting one at a cowboy shoot with black powder! love big smoke!

[jjames]

I love my 1901 and use it regularily for waterfoul, pheasant, and bandtail pigeon. Patterned it yesterday with my goose load. 9 total pellets from two shots of my 1 1/4oz ITX BB loads were off of a 30 inch square paper at a measured 40 yards. But for the life of me, I can't get levering to become an automatic function. It seems so strange as I often use my lever action rifles for hunting and levering after the shot is not a conscious act it just happens after I pull the trigger. I noted a bit of a hestitation this last year when I borrowed a pump gun for pheasant hunting (got tired of not getting a second shot off in time with my hammer drilling) but I tend to remember to put a little backward force on the forearm so the slide action starts without me thinking about it. Guess shooting doubles and autos for so long I am used to just pulling a trigger for that second shot at birds. I sure wish there was a skeet range or a place to throw my own clays close by. The Marine's shut down the skeet range at Miramar which was only 20 minutes away and the Cleveland National Forest shut down all target shooting in the forest. A BLM ranger told me I could shoot skeet at a place about two hours away but I would have to rake up all the broken skeet and take them home with me. So 4 hours of driving and who knows how long raking just doesn't sound appealing.