250 Grain 375 Winchester Load

[Idiot]

I just arrived at the 375 Winchester depot - buying a 375 Winchester. I want to use the 375 for pigs, black bear, deer, and whatever else steps in front of it that I'm tagged to shoot - out to 200 yards.

My load goal is to launch a 250 grain Hawk bullet at 2,000 fps MV.

I know this is a tad optimistic, but with today's powders it might be attainable. I've chosen the Hawk bullet because it's an annealed copper jacketed pure lead core bullet. It should open up reliably at low velocities and hold together at shots just in front of the muzzle. I don't know much about the 250 Barnes bullet, perhaps it does the same, but I suspect it won't open as reliably when ranges get long and velocities drop. Those are the only two outfits that make a 250 bullet for this cartridge, that I know of.

I'd appreciate any advice you guys have regarding this cartridge and load.

[JBledsoe]

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It certainly should be doable with the right powder.

[Old Shatterhand]

When I had a .375W, I loaded it with Barnes 255 grs FN and 34 grains of Norma 200. The velocity was about 625 meters/second, which should be about 2000 fps.

Pete

[Mike Rintoul]

Last year I made a large run of 375 Win with the Hawk 250 grain on a custom order. The fellow that ordered them did a group buy where he sold them for his cost in the internet in order to get the minimum quanity to justify the order. I was only able to achieve 1920 fps from a Win BB with that bullet keeping the cartridges within sensible limits, easy extraction and ejection, excellent accuracy and low velocity deviation. You may get more velocity but I would not recommend wantonly attempting it without proceeding cautiously. In my position, I was loading for more than one rifle and always have to err on the side of caution. I think you will get all of the performance you need at 1900 fps. As far as 200 yard reliability, that is a personal thing based on rifles accuracy, your ability and your expectations. Best of luck.

[Idiot]

When I had a .375W, I loaded it with Barnes 255 grs FN and 34 grains of Norma 200. The velocity was about 625 meters/second, which should be about 2000 fps.

Pete

Last year I made a large run of 375 Win with the Hawk 250 grain on a custom order. The fellow that ordered them did a group buy where he sold them for his cost in the internet in order to get the minimum quanity to justify the order. I was only able to achieve 1920 fps from a Win BB with that bullet keeping the cartridges within sensible limits, easy extraction and ejection, excellent accuracy and low velocity deviation. You may get more velocity but I would not recommend wantonly attempting it without proceeding cautiously. In my position, I was loading for more than one rifle and always have to err on the side of caution. I think you will get all of the performance you need at 1900 fps. As far as 200 yard reliability, that is a personal thing based on rifles accuracy, your ability and your expectations. Best of luck.

Thanks gentlemen. I appreciate the load and advice.

I will be very careful, and too will err on the side of caution. 30 years ago I spent a considerable amount of time wildcatting, and learned the value of caution. Thanks.

[Idiot]

I've spent more time studying this cartridge and components, and RL7 is emerging as the powder for the load intended. Is this the powder of choice for a hard hitting 250 grain load, or is there another powder I should look into? I will read a bit more about the Norma 200 powder.

There also seems to be a case for the Barnes 255 grain bullet. A comparison between the Hawk 250 (.025) and the Barnes 255 is one that has to be made. I'll need to get both and see which one works best for the applications I identified. I suspect the Hawk will open more reliably at lower velocities, but that's only speculation.

The downside of the 375 Winchester is that there's not an awful lot of information about it, nor is there a lot of "in the field" examples of how the various bullets perform on game. I'll keep searching.

If there is anymore information out there, please let me know. Thanks.

Oh, I'm not neglecting the 200 grain bullets, but they seem awful light for this caliber. And Hornady admits that the development of the 220 grain bullet was based primarily on compromising between the 200 and 250 bullets. They, because of price, will still be obtained for supply purposes.

Finally, the only "big three" factory loaded ammo for the 375 Winchester uses a 200 grain bullet (Winchester PP). So I'm looking at the cottage loading houses. BBB doesn't load it, it isn't stocked by Grizzley (but can be special ordered - I think), but HSM has cartridges loaded with the 220 grain Hornady, and Wisconsin Cartridge loads them using the same bullet. I'm familiar with HSM, but know nothing about Wisconsin Cartridge, does anyone know anything about these folks and their products? I will likely buy some Winchester factory ammo, but it almost seems a waste of money given the light bullet they use. Anyway, any information is appreciated.

[6pt-sika]

Oh, I'm not neglecting the 200 grain bullets, but they seem awful light for this caliber. And Hornady admits that the development of the 220 grain bullet was based primarily on compromising between the 200 and 250 bullets. They, because of price, will still be obtained for supply purposes.

Let me begin by saying I not to long ago owned a pair of Marlin 375's and liked them quite a bit .

However I never saw a need for a jacketed bullet larger then the 220 grain Hornady or a cast bullet larger then the Ranch Dog 379-235GC .

I kinda felt if I needed to broach the 250 grain or larger threshold I could do it with any number of offerings in the 444 .

[Idiot]

6pt-sika, how did the 220 Hornady bullets perform on game? Did they open at extended ranges (beyond 100 but less than 200 yards)? Were they pretty reliable killers?

I tend to lean toward the more heavy bullets. And, actually, I consider the 250 grain bullet a tad light in 375 caliber. Besides, I want to use this for pretty heavy hogs and want all the penetration I can get.

I've got a 444 Marlin, but don't haul it out unless the game animal is going to be big, and then will use fairly heavy bullets. I've also got a 348 Winchester, and kind of want the 375W to bridge the gap between the two. Also, the 444 Marlin recoils just a bit more than my smaller Marlins and the 348 Winchester gets to be an anchor toward the end of the day. Again, the 375 Winchester, I hope, will be deliver a heavy blow without the recoil, or weight, of the other two. I could be fooling myself. We'll see.

[Hobie]

I don't know why you can't do it. I can do it with the .38-55 and you can operate at higher pressures in that platform. RL7 worked for me. I would think that the 250s will give you all the penetration you need.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika, how did the 220 Hornady bullets perform on game? Did they open at extended ranges (beyond 100 but less than 200 yards)? Were they pretty reliable killers?

I tend to lean toward the more heavy bullets. And, actually, I consider the 250 grain bullet a tad light in 375 caliber. Besides, I want to use this for pretty heavy hogs and want all the penetration I can get.

I've got a 444 Marlin, but don't haul it out unless the game animal is going to be big, and then will use fairly heavy bullets. I've also got a 348 Winchester, and kind of want the 375W to bridge the gap between the two. Also, the 444 Marlin recoils just a bit more than my smaller Marlins and the 348 Winchester gets to be an anchor toward the end of the day. Again, the 375 Winchester, I hope, will be deliver a heavy blow without the recoil, or weight, of the other two. I could be fooling myself. We'll see.

I shot a couple deer with the 220 Hornady at 100-135 yards . They did an effective job . No tracking involved !

The Ranch Dog original version 379-210GC also did a knock down job (no pun intended) on whitetails . And I would assume the present manufacture Ranch Dog mold the 379-235GC should as well as I never shot a deer with that one but it did very well on paper .

I got no problem with heavy bullets as I shoot up to 400 grains in 444's now . However the 444 case has a bit more room for larger bullets and to me the optimum reason more room in the case for powder .

Personally I would rank the 348 WIN a bit higher for thumping ability over the 375 WIN .

As to the recoil thing we all know thats relative to the person . I personally never saw much difference in the recoil from the 375 compared to a 30-30 . And also never noticed the recoil any in a 444 until I got to messing with 375 and 400 grain cast bullets . But still it wasn't that great atleast for me .

In the 375 WIN I shot bullets from 200-250 grain in the jacketed department and 210 - 265 in the cast variety . And as I said earlier I liked the cartridge in the two rifles I had quite a bit . My own personal feeling on this cartridge is that the 200-235 grainers are best suited for my needs be it deer , bear or piggies .

I've also used jacketed bullets from 240-300 grains in the 444 as well as cast bullets from 200-400 grains in the 444 . And have killed deer and bear with cast from 200-375 grains (not had one walk in front of me when I had my 400 grain rifle in hand) !

Now you are a jacketed mainly shooter at the moment I presume . For what you want if I were in your place I'd have no qualms using the Hornady 220 grainer . WHile the Barnes 250 isn't a bad bullet as I've shot a fair amount of them . For the money the Hornady is hard to beat and to be totally honest the Sierra 200 grainer does a right sporty job on whitetails as well . I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 375 loaded with handloaded Sierra 200 grainers either for piggies in the 100 yard range .

[6pt-sika]

While I like the 375 WIN plenty , there have been rumors for a number of years that Winchester already had another cartridge laid out on the drawing board to start shud the 375 WIN take off in the first couple years of production . This cartridge was supposed to be the 400 WIN or 408 WIN depending on who's telling the story . ANyway if my memory serves it was supposed to be based on a 30-30 type case much like the 375 WIN/38-55 . I suppose some folks would rather say the 30-30 was based on the 38-55 , makes no difference . What was told stated that Winchester was gonna use a case that to my understanding was made from a 30-30, 32 Special , 32-40 , 38-55 , 375 WIN case and neck it up to .40 caliber .

TO my way of thinking that would have been an excellent medium bore cartridge . But then I like messing with alot of things

[Mike D.]

Not the .375 W, but .38-56 W.C.F. in an original 1886 ELTD rifle with Nickel Steel barrel. Same .375 200 grain bullet, whether it be Barnes, Hornady, or Sierra over 41.5 grains of IMR 4895 gives a bit over 1800 FPS average MV. Plenty to kill CA pigs and deer. With a well constructed bullet, like the Hawk, I wouldn't hesitate to use that little rifle on elk.

[Hobie]

.408 Winchester...

408Winchester.jpg

408-In-Exptl.jpg

[Idiot]

Thanks for the responses. I'm learning something here... And I appreciate it.

I agree, the 348 Winchester has a lot more swat than the 375 Winchester, but the 375 Marlin is a lot more handy than the M71.

Hmmmm... Now I've really got to try the Hornady 220 grainers. They are certainly less expensive, and if they do the same thing on the game I'm targeting, ignoring them wouldn't be smart. Hawk makes a 200 grain bullet too - perhaps I should add that to the bullet list.

Thanks guys.

[6pt-sika]

Hmmmm... Now I've really got to try the Hornady 220 grainers. They are certainly less expensive, and if they do the same thing on the game I'm targeting, ignoring them wouldn't be smart. Hawk makes a 200 grain bullet too - perhaps I should add that to the bullet list.

Whilke I'm one of the first to say one should not scrimp on the bullet cost if they are hunting anything that could kill them . I think with deer , antelope , black bear and piggies you should be fine with the Hornady 220 grainer and even the even les expensive Sierra 200 grainer .

Personally if I were in your situation and was of the inclanation I'd get one of Ranch Dog's 379-235GC molds and use that ! Those bullets cast of wheelweights and water dropped should be plenty hard to do anything you wanna do with that 375 ! And if you wanna go just a touch harder use an alloy of 66% wheelweights and 33% Linotype water drop it and you should be plenty good to go !

[6pt-sika]

You're falling in the same trap I did when I first really started messing with leveractions 12 or so years ago !

I wanted to try every available bullet I could find in each cartridge I owned be it the 218 Bee all the way to the 45-70 or 450 Marlin !

Nothing wrong with that trap mind you , but sometimes it can get a bit long

Now I've trimmed back to a pair of cartridges and you might as well say cast bullets only ! Now the fact that I have 7 molds for the 45-70 and about 35 molds for the 444 Marlin doesn't mean a whole lot . But it's a darn sight less then when I was casting and loading for no less then 30-40 other levergun cartridges at the same time .

[6pt-sika]

You know actually for what you want you might be well advised to search around and see if you can find a nice used Marlin in 338 Marlin Express .

I had both variations of the 338 when Marlin first brought it out and they without a doubt would be acceptable for 200 yard shots on Cali piggies and deer !

And that with the factory rubber tipped ammo to boot !

[Idiot]

You're falling in the same trap I did when I first really started messing with leveractions 12 or so years ago ! I wanted to try every available bullet I could find in each cartridge I owned be it the 218 Bee all the way to the 45-70 or 450 Marlin ! Nothing wrong with that trap mind you , but sometimes it can get a bit long

Yep, set - sprung - stuck. I'm hoping this 375 Winchester will work on all of the game I hunt. And if it doesn't, there's always my 30/06.