Levergun education

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bakamorgan
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Levergun education

Post by bakamorgan »

Hello,

New here and well I kinda have a few questions about lever action rifles. I figured what better place to start then to find a site dedicated to lever action rifles....or at least seems that way from the name. :)

I'm thinking about buying a lever action rifle preferably in a .44 mag caliber. Since I have a ruger super black hawk in the same caliber. Wasn't sure on the length or make/model of it.


Any recommendations on what model you guys like the best...try not to start a flame war. Just kinda give me some of your guys pros and cons that you have come across.

One thing I thought was neat and also kinda nostalgic was the side loading feature(kings gate). Do they make newer models where I don't have to load the gun by removing the plunger on the tube but only just by using the side gate. Looks like Uberti does a few that way, but on other sites its hard to tell and sometimes it's not listed... or I'm an idiot and not reading it.


Also hornady makes some ammo specifically for lever action rifles would you guys say you see a better performance with the ammo over another brand?

A few things you should know about me. I don't load my own ammo and never will. I just don't have the space for it and it's just not a thing at my current point in life that I can find time for. I own a few guns and have been hunting since I was 13. Did all those gun safty courses growing up and got my foid card since I live in the wonderful state of IL :roll: Anything else just ask. If I take too long just hold on I'm reloading and I'll get to ya. 8)
Leverdude
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Leverdude »

bakamorgan wrote:Hello,

New here and well I kinda have a few questions about lever action rifles. I figured what better place to start then to find a site dedicated to lever action rifles....or at least seems that way from the name. :)

I'm thinking about buying a lever action rifle preferably in a .44 mag caliber. Since I have a ruger super black hawk in the same caliber. Wasn't sure on the length or make/model of it.


Any recommendations on what model you guys like the best...try not to start a flame war. Just kinda give me some of your guys pros and cons that you have come across.

One thing I thought was neat and also kinda nostalgic was the side loading feature(kings gate). Do they make newer models where I don't have to load the gun by removing the plunger on the tube but only just by using the side gate. Looks like Uberti does a few that way, but on other sites its hard to tell and sometimes it's not listed... or I'm an idiot and not reading it.


Also hornady makes some ammo specifically for lever action rifles would you guys say you see a better performance with the ammo over another brand?

A few things you should know about me. I don't load my own ammo and never will. I just don't have the space for it and it's just not a thing at my current point in life that I can find time for. I own a few guns and have been hunting since I was 13. Did all those gun safty courses growing up and got my foid card since I live in the wonderful state of IL :roll: Anything else just ask. If I take too long just hold on I'm reloading and I'll get to ya. 8)
First Welcome aboard!
I preffer the Marlins or a Win 92 repro like the Rossi. Almost ALL lever guns load thru a gate. The exceptions being the original Henry as made by Win and the modern lever actions produced by a company called Henry, made in Jersey that have no connection to the old ones. At any rate starting in 1866 ALL of Winchesters centerfire levers use a gate & marlins always used one. Your choices today are pretty broad, Marlin makes the model 1894, There are many Win 94s chambered for 44 but I'm not fond of them, though many are, you have the model 92 Win reproductions by Rossi, Browning, an Italian maker that escapes me (Chiappa?) & Winchester. Both Win & Browning 92's are made in Japan but are fantastic guns, you have the modern Henry & possibly some of the 73Win reproductions, I'd steer clear of them though if you intend to run full power loads thru it. Also Ruger made a 44 lever action for a few years as well. I'm likely missing some.
As far as ammo you'll have to shoot it & see what performs well from your gun
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AJMD429
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Re: Levergun education

Post by AJMD429 »

Well, since you have a RUGER Super Blackhawk (good choice, by the way - that was the first centerfire gun I bought, over 30 years ago), you obviously must get a RUGER 96/44 Levergun...!

Image

Unfortunately, they are not currently manufactured (like 'real' Winchesters, although others are making 'clones' of them), but you find them every once in awhile on GunBroker or GunsAmerica or locally. My first 96 was a .22 LR, then I got the Ruger 96 above, purchased from a member here on Leverguns) and it is my favorite.

Reasons - I like the detachable magazine most, like a giant 10/22 magazine, only it holds just four rounds. For me, that's perfect for hunting (I don't do the ten-shots-at-running-deer thing :roll: ), and I can have one magazine loaded with deer rounds and another loaded with plinking loads, if I want. Most importantly for me, I can instantly load/unload the gun if I'm climbing up into or down out of a deerstand, crossing a road, in/out of a vehicle, or coming in after hunting. In addition, if I get rained on or fall on my face in mud going up a steep hill (I've been known to do that :oops: ), the stock comes off way more easily than with a traditional two-piece stock, or should I say goes back ON more easily (forends are really difficult on occasion, and I'm not alone if you browse the threads here). The lever-throw is also short enough I don't have to remove my hand from the stock. It's also light weight and compact. Nothing to dislike about it except it sort of looks like a Winchester 88 or a Marlin 62, and some folks just seem to get ill looking at those.

Finally, for most hunting of deer, I prefer a scope, to 'gather' the light, and help me see better. It only adds 10-15 minutes of useable time for me dawn and dusk, but that time is sometimes critical.

These picture below shows a Ruger 96, Marlin 1894 SS (stainless), and a Rossi 92 (Winchester clone). This particular Rossi, like the Henry (but much lighter weight and trim), uses a tube-loading magazine, like .22 LR's have, and is also fast to load/unload, but much more ungainly to do than the Ruger 96. Most Rossi's don't tube-load, but I happened to see one that did, and snatched it up just because . . . well, it was different . . . (my wife says just because I call it a 'disease' doesn't mean she likes it :D I have to make sure that when I sell or trade ones like that off, she knows about that too, or all she sees is the buying.).

Image

In 2009, these were the deer-rifles three of us took afield:

My Ruger 96/44 (my 'twilight hunting' gun)
My Ruger 77/44 (my 'rain hunting' gun)
My Marlin 1894 SS (my'normal hunting' gun)
My son's Marlin 1894 (and it is super-accurate)
My daughter's Rossi 92 (she likes the shorter barrel and with .44 Mag it is just fine)

Image

The reason the 77/44 'side-lever' became my 'rain' gun was after a particular 'mud incident' which required total disassembly of my 1894 SS; the 77/44 is all stainless (except the sights) and synthetic, and stock comes off in one piece. It also uses a (different) 4-shot rotary magazine. I put a NECG 'peep' rear sight on it.

The reason I call the Marlin 1894 SS my 'normal' hunting gun, is just because I really prefer aperture sights to scopes during mid-day lighting, plus I just like the 'looks' of a traditional levergun. I never load the ten-round magazine full, so it isn't all that big an issue with unloading, plus the cross-bolt safety (that many folks hate) gives a bit of extra security if cycling rounds through to empty the gun (you can do it without them being chambered though, once you get the hang of it).

If you decide to mount a Williams FP (the peep I usually use, 'ghost-ringed' by removing the aperture except if I'm shooting off the bench), the Marlin is a piece of cake for that, too. The Marlin 1894 SS shown above has a Williams FP '336' model mounted in the front two scope-base holes (most folks use the rear ones), and you can see how nice and compact it is, but is a click-adjustable and excellent sight. The blued Marlin 1894 in the picture used to be mine, but the family deal was if a kid shot a whitetail with a gun borrowed from dad, they became owner of that gun. My son has had it since age 13 when he killed his first deer with it, and he prefers a Leupold on it (won at a 4-H Shooting-Sports benefit), but like the Rugers, it is pretty much ready-to-go scope-wise, already drilled and tapped.

The Rossi 92, on the other hand, requires that a scope be forward in the 'scout' position, or on a B-Square mount from the left side of the receiver (they work well, but you want a very compact scope on that kind of mount due to the torque). Some are set up or come with a 'scout' scope base and the barrel drilled and tapped accordingly. On the other hand, if you want metal sights, you pretty much have to drill & tap the receiver (it is actually an easy project if you don't mind buying $20-30 worth of drills/taps, and own a drill-press or are a very careful driller). The Marbles 'Bullseye' rear sight does fit in the rear sight dovetail, and is a good replacement sight for snap-shot hunting, but is not as easy to adjust as the Williams FP or similar receiver aperture sights.

If I'd known how easy the drill & tap process was to do, I might have had a Williams-FP-equipped Rossi 92 be my 'normal' hunting gun, as I think they are slick little guns, and I like the shorter barrel for maneuverability, with no practical loss of velocity the deer seem to notice.

The newer Rossi's have a bolt-mounted 'safety' that I do dislike; they seem to be easily knocked from 'safe' to 'fire' and vice-versa, and for a critical-use situation I can understand why some folks accidentally get a dab of epoxy on them so they stay in 'fire' position, or replace them with the flat 'rivet' or peep sight NKJ on this site offers.

Here's the links to the other stuff I mentioned:
By the way, WELCOME and thanks for joining the 'Levergun' bunch - you'll likely find the site helpful and a friendly place. None of that puff-and-bluster stuff you see on some other sites, and no real dust-ups (other than we do have a 'politics' section :lol: ).
Last edited by AJMD429 on Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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gak
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Re: Levergun education

Post by gak »

A +1 for the Rossis, variously imported by Interarms (70s-90s), LSI "Puma" (Legacy Sports 90s-2009), Navy Arms (late 90s-2006), EMF late 90s-2010, and now just "Rossi" itself (owned by Taurus/Braztech). The Legacy "Puma" introduced the "safety" atop the receiver from the get-go, and all others followed mid 2006. The "feature" is derided by many, ignored by some. SOME centerfire Rossis have had the tube-feed feature, but they are in the great minority.
Last edited by gak on Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
two bit okie
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Re: Levergun education

Post by two bit okie »

Welcome to the fold. If you want to know about leverguns, you have reached the right place.

I have a rossi, snubbed the 20 inch to a 16 inch barrel,
I hade a marlin, the front sight stripped and fell of under 500 rounds, had to have it redrlilled out and retapped.
Had a winchester, ok but nots real impressed.

IMHO, the Marlin is a fatboy front end. (I should talk and throw stones about such things) accurate, never jammed, ugly wood. would feed anything I feed it.

Winchester I traded off for marlin when I tried cowboy action shooting and needed a 20", it was a 16, only broke one part and that was my fault.

rossi has been very reliable and acceptably accurate. will feed and shoot anything I put in it.
The wood wood makes ok firewood and is the most fugly stuff I have ever seen on a gun. I replaced it with a nice walnut stock and fore end. I have never noticed the safty on the bolt and am not worried about one way or the other. I will probablly replace with nate koiwa jones peep sight next year.

As I have more 44 mags than anything else, all of these levers are 44's

good luck on your choice and HAPPY THANKS GIVING.
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Streetstar
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Streetstar »

I like my MArlin 1894 in .44 Mag -- Its an earlier model with no safety -- forend wood is also relatively slim for a MArlin --- I had the barrel shortened to Trapper length and added a saddle ring -- its a fun shooter and is accurate on clay birds at 50 yards, but i haven't really shot it too much farther than that

Winchesters are always nice - and Rossi makes a credible 1892 Winchester replica

Image

Image
----- Doug
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jeepnik
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Re: Levergun education

Post by jeepnik »

As mentioned, Ruger, Marlin, Rossi, etc.. all make good rifles. Truthfully, I'd start looking and handling them. Then pick the one that feels the best and appeals to your eye, as the wood will be different from one gun to the next. If you hunt where it gets pretty wet, you might look at a stainless model. I prefer Marlins as I like that "fat" fore end.
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Griff
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Griff »

Image and Welcome to THE Forum.

The good Doc and others have outlined the available choices you have, given your preference for a .44 Rem Mag levergun that side loads thru a gate (King's Patent). The 1894 Marlins have a long and very good record in this caliber, you'd be well served in this selection. However, you might be a little turned off at the quality of some very late Marlins and the earliest from the Remington plant. However, on the plus side, should you get one of these, it seems clear that they intend to make the customer happy, and most experiences I've read about with returned rifles seem to end well, for the consumer.

The imports have been varied in their quality, fit and sometimes function. But, on the plus side, even the worst examples have redeeming qualities. As many will or have mentioned, those issues can be fixed by the handy owner, with a bit of guidance. Two excellent sources are thru Nate Kiowa Jones' website: Steve's Gunz; or at Marauder's: Marauder's Gun Tips.

Nate can sell you a slicked up levergun, with all or some of his magic worked on it... for what is essentially, but a few pennies more than what a standard, stock gun will cost ya.

As fer the safeties... yep some hate 'em; some do away with them; and others work around 'em. I simply avoid them. I'll buy a used gun and fix it up rather than do the over-ride, eliminate or otherwise defeat the safety. And I don't mean that to sound like a criticism, in fact, I'd be inclined to do just that if a particular gun was my only option.

My favorites include the EMF "Hartford" 1892s: EMF Hartford 1892s. I have a "Short Rifle" in .45 Colt. It's the third Rossi I purchased and slicked up myself. I use a methodology very similar to Marauder's. A method that I've been using and hopefully improving on, since the first Rossi I purchased back in 1986.
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1894c

Re: Levergun education

Post by 1894c »

Leverdude wrote:
bakamorgan wrote:Hello,

New here and well I kinda have a few questions about lever action rifles. I figured what better place to start then to find a site dedicated to lever action rifles....or at least seems that way from the name. :)

I'm thinking about buying a lever action rifle preferably in a .44 mag caliber. Since I have a ruger super black hawk in the same caliber. Wasn't sure on the length or make/model of it.


Any recommendations on what model you guys like the best...try not to start a flame war. Just kinda give me some of your guys pros and cons that you have come across.

One thing I thought was neat and also kinda nostalgic was the side loading feature(kings gate). Do they make newer models where I don't have to load the gun by removing the plunger on the tube but only just by using the side gate. Looks like Uberti does a few that way, but on other sites its hard to tell and sometimes it's not listed... or I'm an idiot and not reading it.


Also hornady makes some ammo specifically for lever action rifles would you guys say you see a better performance with the ammo over another brand?

A few things you should know about me. I don't load my own ammo and never will. I just don't have the space for it and it's just not a thing at my current point in life that I can find time for. I own a few guns and have been hunting since I was 13. Did all those gun safty courses growing up and got my foid card since I live in the wonderful state of IL :roll: Anything else just ask. If I take too long just hold on I'm reloading and I'll get to ya. 8)
First Welcome aboard!
I preffer the Marlins or a Win 92 repro like the Rossi. Almost ALL lever guns load thru a gate. The exceptions being the original Henry as made by Win and the modern lever actions produced by a company called Henry, made in Jersey that have no connection to the old ones. At any rate starting in 1866 ALL of Winchesters centerfire levers use a gate & marlins always used one. Your choices today are pretty broad, Marlin makes the model 1894, There are many Win 94s chambered for 44 but I'm not fond of them, though many are, you have the model 92 Win reproductions by Rossi, Browning, an Italian maker that escapes me (Chiappa?) & Winchester. Both Win & Browning 92's are made in Japan but are fantastic guns, you have the modern Henry & possibly some of the 73Win reproductions, I'd steer clear of them though if you intend to run full power loads thru it. Also Ruger made a 44 lever action for a few years as well. I'm likely missing some.
As far as ammo you'll have to shoot it & see what performs well from your gun
Welcome--what "bakamorgan" said. I've owned Marlin and Winchester, at the end of the day I gravitate towads Marlin. Have fun in exploring this site, don't overlook the articles--great source of info... :)
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pokey
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Re: Levergun education

Post by pokey »

you got your answers in spades. :wink:

nothing to add,

except, welcome home. :)
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

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bakamorgan
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Re: Levergun education

Post by bakamorgan »

Aesome, ill have to read ur guys posts more in detail later. Doing forum checks on my phone drives me nuts with a lot of goodie to read.

Not sure if I mentkioned it,but I'm. Just getting one as another plinker. Since I don't think I could use it to hunt in ILL with. But that's what my shotty is for. :)

Quick question on ammo, someone mentioned staying away from thereporductions if I'm going to fire hot roundss. What do you consider hot rounds? Typicly when I go to the gun store to pick out ammo I just pick something cheap or middle of the road.

Well back t the drive to the inlaws bleg what a day


Happy turkey coma day.
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AJMD429
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Re: Levergun education

Post by AJMD429 »

bakamorgan wrote:Quick question on ammo, someone mentioned staying away from thereporductions if I'm going to fire hot roundss. What do you consider hot rounds? Typicly when I go to the gun store to pick out ammo I just pick something cheap or middle of the road.
Unless you get a pre-1892 reproduction, I don't think any ordinary 'factory loads' would be a problem.
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Hobie »

I about fell out of my chair. A levergun topic! :lol:

Seriously, I leave it to the others to expound on this or that but I'll note the following. That if you get a good quality gun new or even (or perhaps because it is) used, you're going have one fine gun to go along with that Ruger. And, and this is important, when you decide that one isn't enough, you can rest assured that you have friends here who understand.
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Griff
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Griff »

bakamorgan wrote:Quick question on ammo, someone mentioned staying away from thereporductions if I'm going to fire hot roundss. What do you consider hot rounds? Typicly when I go to the gun store to pick out ammo I just pick something cheap or middle of the road.
Happy turkey coma day.
When they mentioned reproductions, I'm sure they meant one of the toggle link actions in .44Mag. Only Uberti is making an 1873 reproduction in that caliber. The other two toggle links, the 1860 Henry and 1866 copies would not be capable of handling the pressure generated with their brass (actually gunmetal brass) frames. I'd be hesitant about shooting 44 Mag even out of the the 1873. Any Marlin 1894 in that caliber, or one of the Winchester 1892 copies would be fine. The Winchester 1892 design is very strong, and capable of handling these rounds with ease.
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bakamorgan
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Re: Levergun education

Post by bakamorgan »

Looks like I better start by playing with the girl..err guns at the gun shop and go from there. So I can find out what length of barrel I tend to like. Didn't know they went past 20. haha Just need to get past these holidays... so many crazy people out there.

From all the tweaks that seem to be floating about, is it possible to swap out a diffrent lever? Like if I find something with a big loop but would rather go to a small one or what not?

Also there any advantages or disadvantages to the lever sizes or is that mainly personal prefrence?
Birdman
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Birdman »

Hey Bakamorgan. Welcome aboard from another Illinois member. You are correct in the fact you cannot hunt in Illinois with a rifle of any kind. You can use a 44 mag revolver but you can't use that round in a rifle. They're all good. I like my Marlins. My brother has a Henry and loves it. If something goes bag it's gotta be fun. Pick yur poison. If ya happen to live in the Bloomington area you could shoot mine and see what you think.
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Re: Levergun education

Post by bakamorgan »

thanks birdman, I live actually 30 mins from you depending on what side of bloomington. I live in pekin....

With winter right around the corner, don't really want to buy a gun and wait till it gets warmer. For all you guys who live more south I envy you!!!
bakamorgan
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Re: Levergun education

Post by bakamorgan »

Got a question about replacing the sights. I take it most if not all require a person to drill and tap new holes to replace sights?

Hard to tell by some of the pictures since theres no good close up shot from the top.
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Tycer
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Tycer »

Welcome!

Ammo: Nay on the Hornady LeverEvolution. For both plinking and hunting there are better choices.

Gun: I think the Winchester 1892 design is absolutely the sweetest, sexiest, smoothest action ever built. Knowing what I know now, if I were in the market for one I would buy a slicked up one from Steve AKA Nate Kiowa Jones at http://www.stevesgunzs.com

Sights: I would drill and tap it for a Lyman 66. Reason being the Lyman elevation can be adjusted with the push of a button and with the trajectory of the 44 that will come in handy if you get the opportunity to shoot past 150. The Marlins are pre-drilled.

Barrel length: The 44 does not require more than 16" for complete powder burn so pick whatever length you like best. Longer guns seem to hang on target better at distance and the 16" Trappers are better for moving in tight quarters (someday IL might get a castle doctrine and a little levergun might seem less ominous than an AR to a DA).

Keep us posted on your search! As a condition of membership, you are required to post pics of your new gun :wink:
Kind regards,
Tycer
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Idiot
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Idiot »

Griff wrote:
bakamorgan wrote:Quick question on ammo, someone mentioned staying away from thereporductions if I'm going to fire hot roundss. What do you consider hot rounds? Typicly when I go to the gun store to pick out ammo I just pick something cheap or middle of the road.
Happy turkey coma day.
When they mentioned reproductions, I'm sure they meant one of the toggle link actions in .44Mag. Only Uberti is making an 1873 reproduction in that caliber. The other two toggle links, the 1860 Henry and 1866 copies would not be capable of handling the pressure generated with their brass (actually gunmetal brass) frames. I'd be hesitant about shooting 44 Mag even out of the the 1873. Any Marlin 1894 in that caliber, or one of the Winchester 1892 copies would be fine. The Winchester 1892 design is very strong, and capable of handling these rounds with ease.
Just two more cents; when I was stalking a Ruger 96/44 I asked Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore Ammo whether or not it was capable of handling his "Heavy" 44 Magnum load and whether or not the 270 grain soft point (my favorite BBA 44 Mag load) would cycle properly. He said yes, the Ruger could handle his "Heavy" 44 Magnum loads and 270 grain would cycle properly. Buffalo Bore's "Heavy" loads are stout full power loads.

NOTE: BBA "Heavy" 44 Magnum loads are not to be confused with his "+P+" 44 Magnum loads. I did not ask him about these loads in relation to the Ruger 96/44. His "Heavy" stuff is plenty hot for me.

BTW, I am once again searching for a reasonably priced Ruger 96/44 - mostly to complete my stable of Ruger 96s. They are like Lays potato chips - "can't eat just one."
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Streetstar
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Streetstar »

Tycer wrote:Welcome!

Ammo: Nay on the Hornady LeverEvolution. For both plinking and hunting there are better choices.

As a counterpoint, i have been totally happy with the Hornady Leverevolution round in one of my big guns (a 45-70) -- but to be honest, i haven't tried it in my 44 mag yet

They are too expensive for plinking, but are great hunting pills -- very accurate in my gun (again, 45-70 vs 44 Mag is definitely an apples vs oranges comparison)

The lever size --- my take on lever size is the big loops look cool as heck, but are much more awkward to use than the regular size levers in the field unless you are wearing heavy gloves or have hands the size of a gorilla
----- Doug
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Re: Levergun education

Post by Leverdude »

Griff wrote:
bakamorgan wrote:Quick question on ammo, someone mentioned staying away from thereporductions if I'm going to fire hot roundss. What do you consider hot rounds? Typicly when I go to the gun store to pick out ammo I just pick something cheap or middle of the road.
Happy turkey coma day.
When they mentioned reproductions, I'm sure they meant one of the toggle link actions in .44Mag. Only Uberti is making an 1873 reproduction in that caliber. The other two toggle links, the 1860 Henry and 1866 copies would not be capable of handling the pressure generated with their brass (actually gunmetal brass) frames. I'd be hesitant about shooting 44 Mag even out of the the 1873. Any Marlin 1894 in that caliber, or one of the Winchester 1892 copies would be fine. The Winchester 1892 design is very strong, and capable of handling these rounds with ease.

Yup, thats what I meant anyway, rereading my post I can see it being missunderstood.
bakamorgan
Levergunner 1.0
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Re: Levergun education

Post by bakamorgan »

I figured as much forthe hordny ammo, but just figured I would ask. Probably just pick up a box or two just to play with and compare. Never know might have to test them out on a cyote something :roll:
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