Bending a front sight on a SA

[Old Savage]

Seems to me I need to go about 1/100 of an inch to the left to move the bullet strike to the right 1" at 15 yds. Not sure how to reference this - ideas fellows??? 4 5/8" Ruger - sight distance from front to rear a bit under 5 1/2"

How to go about doing this?

[eric65]

Big hammer?

[Leverdude]

Curious to see the responses. I was told it often breaks off the Rugers.

[Old No7]

I think I've read that's best done by rotating the barrel a few degrees -- so you may want to check with a gunsmith for that.

Maybe someone who has done this can chime in to confirm.

Good luck.

Old No7

[Mescalero]

I was always led to believe that turning the barrel was the cure for this problem?

[O.S.O.K.]

Indeed it is. I have two old Vaqueros that I zero'd with my chosen load (250 grain Laser Cast rnfp over 7.0 grains of W231, WLP primers in Win cases) - you remove the cyliner and cylinder pin. Then remove the ejector rod housing and ejector rod/spring. Clamp the barrel in a vice - using a barrel clamp or just some hardwood blocks with a hole of the right diameter drilled through the middle of where they meet - use some... oh whatcha callit... rosin - that's it to help the blocks lock down the barrel.

Once you have the barrel secured - insert a good sturdy piece of wood inthe frame window (something like a hickory hammer handle) and ooch the frame in the opposite direction that you want the front sight to move. Remember to move the front sight the opposite way that you would the rear - in other words, if you want the groups to move left, rotate the front sight to the right slightly.

Since the rotation is very very slight, you can usually get away with doing this and not have to adjust the cylinder gap. Mine were both fine.

Once I got mine zero'd for windage, I filed the front sight until I got it where I wanted it for elevation.

Here's one of them with the Marlin Cowboy that I used for CAS:

[Griff]

OR... you can file the right sight if the sight. Or open up the right side of the rear sight groove. Then, there's always adjusting your load...

[Old Savage]

Well Leverdude - then I would be off on a new quest.

[jhrosier]

OS,

Mine is off quite a bit more and I decided to just replace it with the sight from a MKII.
I also want a better sight picture than the rounded edge and shiny factory sight.
My front sight is under clocked and the rear notch was cut off center the opposite way so I need .040" correction. The non traditional appearance of the MKII sight does not bother me.

Jack

[Shrapnel]

Filing, grinding and bending are redneck attempts at a fix best left to a gunsmith. I have 7 Colt SAA and 2 Uberti's and they all needed regulating. The only correct way to regulate a revolver shooting left, is to tighten the barrel with a barrel vise built for doing just that job. It can be done if you have the vise, if you don't, take it to a gunsmith and do it right. My father always said "There are 2 kinds of people that work on watches, jewelers and idiots". This applies to guns as well...

[J Miller]

Ruger front sights are brittle. They're known to break off when you try to bend them. I'd have the barrel turned.

Joe

[Pitchy]

If ya do try turning the barrel yourself put a line on the frame too the barrel so you can see how much you move it.
Good luck, i hate that stuff.

[adirondakjack]

ANY single action revolver shooting low left out of the box I suspect shooter error. It is very common to get "too deep" in the gun, especially when unconsciously yer trying hard to make it group. Make sure the forearm bones are parallel to the bore and ONLY the pad of the fingertip is on the trigger. That way instead of milking it low left, yer gonna press straight back.

PS, I too have done this (ACTUALLY SENT MY FIRST VAQ BACK TO RUGER where they rightly proclaimed it OK), and it is soooo common in CAS circles we almost always say "get another fellow to try it BEFORE you "fix" it."

[Old Savage]

Thanks A jack - I'll give that a try and a thought.

[1894c]

great advice...thank you for the info, I was always wondering what to do when a SA is not properly regulated. When revolvers ruled and fix sighted revolvers were the norm for LE use I think the armorers of that time had a tool called a "babbit", lead covered with leather sort of thing. The would lock a revolver in a vice and use this tool to bang on the barrel to adjust POA, I never saw one, but only heard about it... :)

[El Chivo]

it seems like a piece of tape would do the job for you. I bought some aluminum tape at the auto parts store to fix my tailpipe. You can cut it and it sticks quite well.

[O.S.O.K.]

Shrapnel, I hate to point this out, but I was following your buddy's advice from an article in Handloader

I would've rather had a proper barrel vice but the above described method worked just fine -the barrels weren't very hard to turn and so the pressure applied to the frame via the hickory wasn't anything to worry about. I've since acquired a good quality barrel vice - needed it for one of my other "idiot" home gunsmithing projects - switching a barrel on a Savage bolt gun (which turned out really well ).

And like I said, it worked like a charm for both guns.

And as Pitchy added, a witness mark on the frame and barrel is a very good idea! I put mine under where the ejector rod houseing would cover it up once placed back...

I will say this, all razzing of Shrapnel aside, I am what I would call "handy" in the shop and not everybody is... I'm not a pro, just seem to have common sense and know how far to go so as not to ruin stuff.

OS is doing what I always do before trying something new - research it and ask for advice.

[Griff]

When I had mine regulated (finally), I included my load data so they'd be regulated to my loads. The same smith did my two clones... so all four SAs shoot to the same POI with my CAS loads. And with CCI "Lawman" ammo, they're all within "minute of badguy" accurate! I still easily qualified for my SAA to be a "duty" gun on the PPC course!

[O.S.O.K.]

Something about a lawman that totes a SA that just seems right to me. Makes me feel even more respectful of him than I am anyway. Many around here do - but it's a SA 1911... still nice to see IMHO.

To me it sends the message "when I have to shoot, it won't take many rounds..."

[EdinCT]

I bought a Bisley 44 about 8 years back and it shot 3 inches left at 25 yards. I contacted Ruger and they said it was in spec, so I also drilled a oak block and put rosin in it to tightened the barrel sans the ejector housing with a oak lever I cut to frame size and tried to turn the barrel. It would not turn so I thought the nearest gunsmith who could do this is a hundred miles away. So what the heck while it was still in the blocks I took a peice of brass 1" wide 1/2" thick and 4 inches long and used it as a punch to gave the front sight a rap. It didn't break but when I shot the gun at 50 yards it was still left so being a idiot I put it back in the blocks and rapped it again. It still didn't break but I can't promise others will not. It now shoots point of aim at 75 yards.
That said the front sight leans left which isn't pretty but a gun that doesn't shoot to point of aim isn't of any use to me.

[O.S.O.K.]

In that situation, I would've tried to heat the frame a bit where the barrel screws in - not a lot - not enough to remove temper, just to 200 degrees or so to get it to swell a little and allow the barrel to turn.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

ANY single action revolver shooting low left out of the box I suspect shooter error. It is very common to get "too deep" in the gun, especially when unconsciously yer trying hard to make it group. Make sure the forearm bones are parallel to the bore and ONLY the pad of the fingertip is on the trigger. That way instead of milking it low left, yer gonna press straight back.

PS, I too have done this (ACTUALLY SENT MY FIRST VAQ BACK TO RUGER where they rightly proclaimed it OK), and it is soooo common in CAS circles we almost always say "get another fellow to try it BEFORE you "fix" it."

I agree,

POA to the left is the most common problem for right handed shooters and it's usually caused by Jerking the trigger, too much finger on the trigger and anticipating the recoil.
Here's a good article from BULLSEYEPISTOL.COM

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

The Wheel of Misfortune

Every day of the shooter's life brings a new lesson. Identifying errors are crucial in order that these lessons be learned. The following chart can help pinpoint such basic flaws in a shooter's technique by analyzing group locations. As printed, it is for a right-handed shooter. (A left-hander's chart would be mirrored horizontally.)




Top Eleven Bad Habits of Shooters

1.Not Looking at the Sights. This quite frequently is listed as "looking at the target." A shooter may be focusing his eye on neither the sights nor the target, but since he does not see the target in clear focus he assumes he is looking at the sights. You must concentrate on sight alignment.

2.Holding Too Long. Any adverse conditions that interrupt a shooter's ability to "hold" will cause him to delay his squeeze, waiting for conditions to better. The disturbing factor about this is that you will do it unconsciously; therefore, you must continuously ask yourself, am I being too particular?

3.Improper Grip or Position. Suffice to say that you cannot fire a decent score with any gun at any range if you continually change your grip or position.

4.Jerk or Heel. The application of pressure either with the trigger finger alone or in case of the heel, pushing with the heel of the hand at the same time. Apply pressure to the trigger straight to the rear and wait for the shot to break.

5. Anticipation. Anticipation can cause muscular reflexes of an instant nature that so closely coincide with recoil that extreme difficulty is experienced in making an accurate call. Anticipation is also the sire to flinching.

6. Loss of Concentration. If the shooter fails in his determination to apply positive pressure on the trigger while concentrating on the front sight his prior determination needs renewal and he should rest and start over.

7. Anxiety. You work and work on a shot, meanwhile building up in your mind doubt about the shot being good. Finally you shoot just to get rid of that particular round so you may work on the others.

8. Vacillation (Plain Laziness). This is a mental fault more than a physical one, which results in your accepting minor imperfections in your performance which you could correct if you worked a little harder. The end result being you hope you get a good shot. Just like you hope you will get a gratis tax refund, and you will get one just about as frequently as you get the other.

9. Lack of Follow Through. Follow through is the subconscious attempt to keep everything just as it was at the time the shot broke. In other words you are continuing to fire the shot even after it is gone. Follow through is not to be confused with recovery. Merely recovering and holding on the target after the shot is no indication that you are following through.

10. Lack of Rhythm. Hesitancy on the first shot or any subsequent shot in timed or rapid fire. Develop a good rhythm and then have the fortitude to employ it every case. Frequently many shooters will have fine rhythm until the last shot of a string and then hesitate, doctoring up that last shot.

11. Match Pressure. If there are 200 competitors in a match, rest assured that there are 200 shooters suffering from match pressure. So what makes you think you are so different? If you are exerting all your mental energy toward executing the correct fundamentals rather than the arithmetic evaluation, your shooting match pressure will be what you feel when people congratulate you on a fine performance.

The only way to know for sure is to shoot the gun fron a machine rest/ Ranson rest.
But, this is how I do it if I don't have a machine rest handy. First is target selection. I setup a target at 15 to 12 yds. This will depend on how you plan to use the gun. For me and my eyes, fix sighted SAA's beyond 25 yds is not an option. The target is an inverted "T" on freezer paper made using black electrical tape. The idea is to set the upside-down "T's" horizontal line on top the rear site and center the front sight with the vertical line. The objective is for the group to hit POI at the juncture of the two lines. Next is the rest. I actually rest the front of the lower frame on the soft rest. Some folks will tell you to just rest your hands but not the gun. I've tried it both ways and have found little or no difference.
What I have found that makes a big difference is this. When shooting a rifle you have a much steadier platform and even a cheek weld on the stock to steady your head. For handguns I try to do the same thing by setting up near a post or use an ammo can or something that I can rest my head against. If your head can move it's no different than your sights moving. Now shoot a 5 or 6 shot group using the tips above.
You might even shoot 6 different targets using only the same chamber on each to see just what chambers group the best, mark the worst chamber and load only five with the hammer down on this empty chamber.

Whatever you do don't try to bend the front sight. you may end up regretting it.

[Old Savage]

Thanks fellows: I will make no change until I have done more shooting with this gun. Steve - thanks for such a complete reply.

Some careful dry firing with empty cases in the chambers reveals a definite tendency on some shots to tighten the ring finger and the little finger along with the trigger on some shots pulling the sights down and left - I will have to shoot again at a calmer time. There was a group to my left on a busy range day throwing 9mm brass my way and shooting a 357 at plates from the next position over. The target shows that 1/3 of the shots were not left.


At one time I shot the group below. But it is low and left too - possibly just very consistent with it that day.

[Pitchy]

I`ve had guns that shoot to a poa one place and hand the gun to ba buddy and it will shoot to a completly different spot.
If possibly have a couple others shoot it and see where it hits, just a easy way to get a idea if it`s the gun.

[O.S.O.K.]

Steve makes a very good point (as usual) - though not the thread topic or question, he is absolutley correct that you should be sure that you are "shooting straight" so to speak.

With a new gun, I tend to find myself sending them to the left a bit and then when I focus and pay attention to my grip and trigger pull, the group heads right - if it's sighted in well.

Found that with my recent purchase of a S&W M10.

[KCSO]

Don't repeat DON"T try to BEND a Ruger front sight. They are silver brazed on and you will either break of crack the braze and sooner or later the sight comes off. Take the gun to a real gunsmith and have hiim turn the barrel.

"nuff said"

[Last Gunfighter]

I had the problem of hitting to the right, got David Clements to turn the barrel for me, and it was dead on.

[ollogger]

I must have shooter error with fixed sites
thanks guys for all the tips
I was blameing it on my eyes & the rear site
can see a gnat at 50ft. but cant see it if its in my eye
ollogger

[Old Savage]

Well again - when I take my best group ever and see that it is also low and left I have to wonder about my shooting technique with some grips. It will change from grip to grip. I bought a book on pistol shooting when I was 18 and did a lot of the drills - even grip pressure with each finger and all. But, in the mean time I have shot a lot then not at all. I am sure that many things affect this. I will have to try Steve's drill with all the cylinders.

[L_Kilkenny]

I might add that when you do break off the sight trying the bubba method it will be properly regulated when you get it back from Ruger after the repair. Don't ask me how I know.

LK

[DPris]

My first Colt Peacemaker was regulated off to one side.
I talked it over with a gunsmith, his solution was a quick front blade bend. (Don't ask how, I wasn't watching.)
The result put a bullet where it aimed, but looking at that tilted blade bugged me so much that when I eventually sent it off to Eddie Janis he replaced the entire barrel as part of the overall work I had done.

His opinion was that trying to re-bend & then turning the barrel would most likely break the solder & require replacing the blade. That would have involved milling, soldering, cleanup, and re-bluing. I agreed with his suggestion of the new barrel, and he returned the old one separately when he was done.
Initially, turning the barrel in the first place would have been preferable, but that can involve its own risks (frame warping), and the first gunsmith thought bending the blade slightly was quicker & easier.

I'd advise against bending.
Get it done right.
Denis

[Shrapnel]

Well again - when I take my best group ever and see that it is also low and left I have to wonder about my shooting technique with some grips. It will change from grip to grip. I bought a book on pistol shooting when I was 18 and did a lot of the drills - even grip pressure with each finger and all. But, in the mean time I have shot a lot then not at all. I am sure that many things affect this. I will have to try Steve's drill with all the cylinders.

The cylinder drill is something you can do nothing about and may cause you to lose faith in your gun. I would try to just shoot the gun, one way in regards to hand hold, rest, without rest, or whatever you feel is the best way for you to shoot consistently. If you use a rest, don't put any part of the gun on the rest, just use the rest to help support your hands for consistency. This is again done by hand and certainly not a Ransom Rest, as they won't do you any good in determining where the gun shoots in reference to where it is aimed.

The most important part of this drill is to load 2 rounds, skip one cylinder, then load another round and then blindly rotate the cylinder until you don't know whether you will start firing the revolver with a live round or empty cylinder. Once you have shot a complete 6 rounds, you will also be able to determine how much flinch you have when you drop the hammer on an empty cylinder. Repeating this drill over and over will tell you more about your shooting skills and then you will be able to go the next step to be able to shoot consistently enough to help eliminate as much shooter error as you can to determine where your gun shoots.

Trigger control is an important component when shooting a handgun, and this drill will help accomplish that. I have shot small game to big game with a handgun and regardless of how good a shot you are, if your gun isn't regulated to where you shoot, it is worthless...

[Old Ironsights]

Wow. It's "legal" to take deer with a .45acp where you live? COOL!

[DPris]

Cheese Whiz! I can't get anywhere near close enough to a wiley wabbit nowdays to hit one with a .45!

Had to give up deer long ago. Knees can't handle the mountains any more.
Denis