25-35 Winchester needs to go hunting in the fall!

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:02 pm

Been reading up on the web and trying to find some guidance regarding a load for my 25-35 Winchester for this falls deer season. It should be near perfect for the deer here in Lower Alabama. I have found a surprising amount of information but none that covers the Hornady 117gr RN or the Mt. Baldy 100gr FNGC with either H335 or H4895. My last attempt at a load was the 117gr Hornady pushed by 21.0 gr of H335. That was the load that caused me to move on to other projects for the upcoming season and save this rifle for next season. I am not the best shot around, but I am not that bad! Terrible load with no consistency. Anybody out there use this combination of bullets and powders with success?

Thomas

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:34 pm

Ken waters list 24 and 26 gr of H4895 for the 117 gr. but nothing for H335. His most accurate load with 117gr was 29 gr of H380 at 2336 fps.

I've just started playing with loads for the 25-35 but have been focusing on the lighter 75 and 86 gr bullets with the new LVR powder with good results. But i'm just looking for a good varmit load.

32-20 · Post by **32-20** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:18 pm

I have had good luck with, 26gr. IMR4320 in a re barreled marlin 336 26" 1 in 10 twist.

model55 · Post by **model55** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:59 pm

Saw some where that 25.7 grains of imr 3031 was a factory equivalent with the 117 grain bullet but have CRS so you better work your way up to that one.Worked with little 75 grain bullets but that is another ball game.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:03 pm

I have in-laws in LA (Atmore area). None of them talk about deer hunting anymore. My FIL used to hunt south of the AL/FL line (he lived in McDavid).

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:38 pm

Hobie wrote:I have in-laws in LA (Atmore area). None of them talk about deer hunting anymore. My FIL used to hunt south of the AL/FL line (he lived in McDavid).

Hobie, why are they not talking about deer hunting anymore? I live very near to Atmore and hunt north of Stockton on Hwy 59 and we are covered up with deer. The only reason to not hunt deer is because they are too busy going after all the hogs!

Thomas

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:08 pm

I have hunted with a 25-35 all my life and shot everything from Grizzly Bear, to moose, deer antelope and small game. I loaded my first loads years ago with IMR 4895, but now shoot 25 grains of IMR 3031 with the 117 grain Hornady RN, and it shoots great, kills better...

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:09 pm

Here is some info from Gunblast.com on the 25-35.

http://www.gunblast.com/Winchester_25-35.htm

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:23 pm

Old Savage wrote:Here is some info from Gunblast.com on the 25-35.

http://www.gunblast.com/Winchester_25-35.htm

From this article to several of the posts it looks like I am going to have to add a pound of IMR3031 to my next purchase from Powder Valley. Funny its not one of the powders listed on the Hogdon website for the 25-35 Winchester.
Old Savage, it looks like they used my rifle for the article. Its going to be a sweet little rifle to use in the tree stands here, can't wait.

Thomas

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:08 pm

20-21 grains of IMR 4198 with the 117 Hornady rn. Its easy on the brass and still churns up 2100+ out of a src and that nice flatband I sold Olloger------that sweet talkin' wife of his.

---Sixgun

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:10 pm

264 Win Mag wrote:
Hobie wrote:I have in-laws in LA (Atmore area). None of them talk about deer hunting anymore. My FIL used to hunt south of the AL/FL line (he lived in McDavid).
Hobie, why are they not talking about deer hunting anymore? I live very near to Atmore and hunt north of Stockton on Hwy 59 and we are covered up with deer. The only reason to not hunt deer is because they are too busy going after all the hogs!

Thomas

All the former deer hunters are either too old or too far under ground to do so. We used to have some great chats on the subject. My FIL even took me out one time. I have a .25-35 Contender barrel. It is great fun.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:25 pm

Actually 264, that is my rifle you see in the pictures in the article.

TSX data developing a load for the Calif leadless areas. EDIT - my error here - this is really a target sighting in the 117s. 10 shots total, you can see a bullet from one group in the lower right then I was walking it in. The range was for the whole ten shots and as you see the last three in the final group are more consistent in velocity.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:27 pm

yep the flat band my wife sweet talked six gun out of is going hunting this fall, loaded some 75gr. speer with LVR & thats sweet
if i get a day off when the wind aint blowing its going P D shooting
ollogger

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:26 pm

Old Savage wrote:Actually 264, that is my rifle you see in the pictures in the article.

TSX data developing a load for the Calif leadless areas.

Excellent shooting Old Savage. I am assuming you are having to load the TSX one at a time?
I think once I get this load worked out to my satisfaction this rifle will replace my Marlin 336 in 35 Rem as my favorite tree stand gun.

Thomas

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:32 pm

Hobie wrote:
264 Win Mag wrote:
Hobie wrote:I have in-laws in LA (Atmore area). None of them talk about deer hunting anymore. My FIL used to hunt south of the AL/FL line (he lived in McDavid).
Hobie, why are they not talking about deer hunting anymore? I live very near to Atmore and hunt north of Stockton on Hwy 59 and we are covered up with deer. The only reason to not hunt deer is because they are too busy going after all the hogs!

Thomas
All the former deer hunters are either too old or too far under ground to do so. We used to have some great chats on the subject. My FIL even took me out one time. I have a .25-35 Contender barrel. It is great fun.

Sorry to hear it Hobie. During my years in the Air Force I never got to hunt much but I had a good buddy I met at the NCO Academy who got me hooked on reloading and after I retired and moved here to LA I have been really taken with sitting in the woods and watching nature, aka hunting.

Thomas

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:35 pm

Shrapnel wrote:I have hunted with a 25-35 all my life and shot everything from Grizzly Bear, to moose, deer antelope and small game. I loaded my first loads years ago with IMR 4895, but now shoot 25 grains of IMR 3031 with the 117 grain Hornady RN, and it shoots great, kills better...

That sure is impressive Shrapnel. Even more so because it looks like you are using what I would describe as a real 25-35 Winchester.

Thomas

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:39 pm

264 Win Mag wrote:
Hobie wrote:
264 Win Mag wrote:
Hobie wrote:I have in-laws in LA (Atmore area). None of them talk about deer hunting anymore. My FIL used to hunt south of the AL/FL line (he lived in McDavid).
Hobie, why are they not talking about deer hunting anymore? I live very near to Atmore and hunt north of Stockton on Hwy 59 and we are covered up with deer. The only reason to not hunt deer is because they are too busy going after all the hogs!

Thomas
All the former deer hunters are either too old or too far under ground to do so. We used to have some great chats on the subject. My FIL even took me out one time. I have a .25-35 Contender barrel. It is great fun.
Sorry to hear it Hobie. During my years in the Air Force I never got to hunt much but I had a good buddy I met at the NCO Academy who got me hooked on reloading and after I retired and moved here to LA I have been really taken with sitting in the woods and watching nature, aka hunting.

Thomas

Yep. Nice folks down there as well.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:32 pm

Shrapnel,

Very nice pictures and rifle. Love to hear the details of your taking a grizzly with the 25-35. Moose too, for that matter. Would appear that "big bores" don't appeal to you but just guessing.

Don

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:02 am

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:07 am

getitdone1 wrote:Shrapnel,

Very nice pictures and rifle. Love to hear the details of your taking a grizzly with the 25-35. Moose too, for that matter. Would appear that "big bores" don't appeal to you but just guessing.

Don

We had a cabin near West Yellowstone, MT and a neighbor had adjoining property where he would summer his cattle. One afternoon we heard an uproar in the timber, checked it out and found where a Grizzly had killed a calf. This is a long time ago and you didn't need a tag for bears. I went in pursuit of the bear with the 25-35, shot him between the eyes and that was it. Some people say a 30-06 will bounce off a Grizzly skull, but a 25-35 didn't...

As to the moose, I was just a kid and we didn't have cameras around then. I did shoot a moose later with a Winchester 1876 Deluxe in 40-60, not what you would consider a big bore by any stretch, and I did use a 45-60 on a nice Mule Deer...

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:12 am

Like Shrapnel, I also use 3031 with the 117gr RN Hornady. But I use 24 grs as 25 is just a hair too much in my Model 64 and get a hair over 2200fps. I've used that load for almost 40 years in that little rifle.

I also use 22grs of 3031 with a 110gr cast FN with the same fantastic accuracy.

2x22

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:18 am

264, yes that is the way it worked out that they are a single shot feeding affair.

Here is a picture with 117s and 100 TSX and a Standard 150 308 TSX Fed factory load.

I think I may have mislabeled the other picture but here is the data my rifle:

Win 117 SP factory loads - 2230 fps. 7/8" x 3 at 100 yds.

Barnes 100 TSX, 27.0 gr H380 - 2246 fps. 7/8" x 3 at 100 yds.

Barnes 100 TSX, 30.0 gr H380 - 2418 fps. to 2476 fps 1" x 3 at 100 yds.

Hornady 117 RN, 30.0 gr H380 - 2325 fps. 7/8" x 3 at 100 yds.

Side note - in looking through some targets I found one with LeverEvolution for the 35 Rem in a 336. The five shots in the group and the only ones I fired were in the 10 Ring which is where it was sighted with Rem 200s and all were very close to 2100 fps in velocity - notices that you said you were now using a 35 Rem 336 in your tree stand.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:39 am

getitdone1 wrote:Shrapnel,

Very nice pictures and rifle. Love to hear the details of your taking a grizzly with the 25-35. Moose too, for that matter. Would appear that "big bores" don't appeal to you but just guessing.

Don

+1 --I really like your photos too... :)

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:43 am

Shrapnel,

More outstanding pictures and thanks for the details of your grizzly kill.

Is the 23-35 and the old Winchester that shoots it your favorite gun and cartridge? I've had lots of guns and cartridges but never the 25-35 although I might like to give it a try. Been curious about it for some time.

Wondering if you've also shot lots of game with the old larger calibers and how you compare their performance with the 25-35?

I recall reading about a pioneering couple in British Columbia living in grizzly country and the wife carried a 25-35. Her brother-in-law, by the way, used a Remington model 8 and 35 Remington to kill many grizzlies.

Don

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:36 pm

I like too many guns to have a favorite. I work hard each year to get enough permits to hunt as much as I can and use all the different rifles/calibers I can. Large bore rifles of the 19th century vs. the 25-35 and other calibers once smokeless powder and jacketed bullets were introduced, a whole new dynamic appeared in hunting. I have killed most big game with both kinds of technology and although there are those that claim the old buffalo calibers and guns are real killers, they still don't equal high velocity guns and jacketed bullets.

I love to hunt with both and continue to make the best shot possible knowing that a jacketed bullet is going to expand and do tremendous damage, while the heavy cast bullets are going to usually pass completely through the animal. You have to adjust your shooting to either type of gun and ammunition.

Here are some of the guns and animals taken...

1876 45-60 and 45-75:

Sharps rifles:

Some more levers:

Animals:

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:46 pm

OK, now there is a revelation against the tide.

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:55 pm

Old Savage wrote:264, yes that is the way it worked out that they are a single shot feeding affair.

Here is a picture with 117s and 100 TSX and a Standard 150 308 TSX Fed factory load.

I think I may have mislabeled the other picture but here is the data my rifle:

Win 117 SP factory loads - 2230 fps. 7/8" x 3 at 100 yds.

Barnes 100 TSX, 27.0 gr H380 - 2246 fps. 7/8" x 3 at 100 yds.

Barnes 100 TSX, 30.0 gr H380 - 2418 fps. to 2476 fps 1" x 3 at 100 yds.

Hornady 117 RN, 30.0 gr H380 - 2325 fps. 7/8" x 3 at 100 yds.

Side note - in looking through some targets I found one with LeverEvolution for the 35 Rem in a 336. The five shots in the group and the only ones I fired were in the 10 Ring which is where it was sighted with Rem 200s and all were very close to 2100 fps in velocity - notices that you said you were now using a 35 Rem 336 in your tree stand.

Excellent groups with the 25-35 Old Savage. 7/8" at 100 yards would be more than sufficient for me around here.
That is an outstanding load for the 35 Rem also. The reason its my favorite is it will take care of any hogs I run into while deer hunting. As I told Hobie, we have a bunch of hogs on the property and we need to thin them out as I have heard they will mess up the deer habitat plus they are good eating.

Thomas

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:11 pm

I would wonder if the ends were ground off the TSX and a hollow point were drilled in -- if that wouldn't work just fine.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:33 pm

Shrapnel,

About all I can say--regarding your great pictures and guns--is, I am impressed. You strike me as a person who has the potential to be a very good gun writer.

Thanks much for your responses. Outstanding guns and pictures.

Don

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:04 pm

OK so it's a given that 25-35's are hard to come by. Anybody have an idea on what would be the best way to go about building one??

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:58 pm

Rebarrel a 94.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:02 pm

264 - can't think of an easier rifle to shoot than that 25-35.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:08 pm

I wish numrich would come out with a 25-35 kit like they had for 30-30 and 38-55 - 24" 1/2 octagonal/round with handguard. You just remove old barrel, screw this one on and use a finish reamer to headspace if needed.

I used one of the 30-30 kits to rebarrel a 94 with a pitted bore - also installed a new buttstock with cressant buttplate. Chambered it for 30-30 AI before I installed it. Came out pretty nice in spite of my home gunsmithing skills.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:27 pm

Rusty wrote:OK so it's a given that 25-35's are hard to come by. Anybody have an idea on what would be the best way to go about building one??

Believe me, you can find them. I would guess I could find one sooner than you could have one made...

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:07 am

Shrapnel wrote:
Rusty wrote:OK so it's a given that 25-35's are hard to come by. Anybody have an idea on what would be the best way to go about building one??
Believe me, you can find them. I would guess I could find one sooner than you could have one made...

+1 on that. Its all in where you look. Come on down to the Timonium, Md. show this coming weekend and you will be able to fill a truck up with 'em.

Shrapnel,
Fine looking deluxe '76! ----Sixgun

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:51 am

That is one good sized turkey.

And, Shrapnel, I'm surprised there was no response to the gunwriter statement. I just can't believe you wouldn't say something about being in the same class as your brother MLV. Too funny.

Not dissin' anyone, just saying.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:49 pm

kimwcook wrote:That is one good sized turkey.

And, Shrapnel, I'm surprised there was no response to the gunwriter statement. I just can't believe you wouldn't say something about being in the same class as your brother MLV. Too funny. Not dissin' anyone, just saying.

I have written for years, but only in an unpublished venue. I also keep a journal, which I believe helps to keep your writing skills honed somewhat.

Here is an unpublished short...

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:17 pm

Great story Shrapnel, now where are those pine knots when you need one.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:55 pm

Good story. Any of that story taken from real life?

Don

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:15 pm

getitdone1 wrote:Good story. Any of that story taken from real life?

Don

It is somewhat of a compilation of events both real and made up...

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Fri May 18, 2012 2:30 pm

BenT wrote:Ken waters list 24 and 26 gr of H4895 for the 117 gr. but nothing for H335. His most accurate load with 117gr was 29 gr of H380 at 2336 fps.

I've just started playing with loads for the 25-35 but have been focusing on the lighter 75 and 86 gr bullets with the new LVR powder with good results. But i'm just looking for a good varmit load.

Finally got to my range with Mr. Waters load of 24 gr of H4895 and it was another shotgun pattern. I was beginning to question my own skills until I got to my second load for my 35 Rem and it was a dramatic improvement over my 25-35 Win and first 35 Rem load. Had me ready to head to the eye doctor ASAP!

I need to put some hard study into this rifle as its been the first one in my 13 plus years of reloading that has not cooperated with my good faith efforts.

Thomas

Post by **Hobie** » Fri May 18, 2012 3:58 pm

Thanks for the update Thomas. This is a good topic.

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Fri May 18, 2012 4:02 pm

Shrapnel I don't know how you puuled it off, but all the armchair experts say you HAVE to have a long range magnum with a 60-100 power scope to take game like that. You should know better.

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Tue May 29, 2012 2:40 pm

Ok, stepped up the load to to 25.0 gr. of H335 and group was 2.250" and I was seeing some pressure signs. Hogdon says 20.0 to 22.5 grs. for H335 so I am thinking of dropping back down to 22.0 and start working back up. I have notes on 21.0 grs. and it was no good so I am hoping the sweet spot lies between 22.0 and 25.0. I tried H4895 and it was worse than H335 for all loads tested. I would hate to have to buy a new powder just for this rifle, but since I would never sell it that's where I may be headed.

Thomas

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Wed May 30, 2012 9:19 am

Shrapnel,
Loved the story!

I too have a 25-35 SRC that I've had for (73-18=) 55 years. Had a mirror bore when I bought it for $22.50 out of a gas station but loaned it to BIL for a couple of years so it's dark now. Doesn't shoot as well as it once did but I use the Remington 117 grain round nose and 25 grains of H4895 or 25 grains of 3031. The 3031 gives better velocity, around 2300 fps but I think the H4895 is more accurate.

Maybe I'll have it re-lined to get the accuracy back.

t.r. · Post by **t.r.** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

My Dad's Aunt Lillian hunted deer with a slide action rifle in 25 Remington. She had a reputation for getting her venison every year. Good shootin' and good rifle cartridge, too. The difference between 25 Remington and 25-35 is largely in the realm of theory because their ballistics are nearly identical.

Thanks for sharing photos!

TR