Speer ticks me off..........

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:20 pm

I was just going to try some 300 gr. 452 dia. jacketed bullets. My reloading manuals doesn't list any info for that heavy of a bullet and Speer won't let me have the info unless I buy their book. Not fair to spend $25 for bullets and $30 for a book to load them. I usally cast and may never buy those bullets again.

Owen

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Try Reloaders nest, Steves Reloading data pages, or even Hodgdons website for that weight of bullet.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:41 pm

hightime wrote:I was just going to try some 300 gr. 452 dia. jacketed bullets. My reloading manuals doesn't list any info for that heavy of a bullet and Speer won't let me have the info unless I buy their book. Not fair to spend $25 for bullets and $30 for a book to load them. I usally cast and may never buy those bullets again.

Owen

I understand what you're saying, but disagree with your stance.

Mac in Mo · Post by **Mac in Mo** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:45 pm

There is factory reloading info all over the net, try doing some searching. Is this for .45 Colt?

Kevin

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:17 am

I have a Speer reloading manual with the load specs in it for that bullet. Send me an e-mail with your home address and I'll send you a copy of the loads from the book.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:40 am

I've been looking. There isn't much for a 300 gr, jacketed.

Thanks Piler, I will.

Owen

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:38 pm

Get a copy of hodgdon #26 manual has listings for 150-350 gr jacket bullets for several powder manufactures loads are in the 23 to 30K cup/psi area. A taste:
300 gr pushed by IMR 800X start load 10.5 gr 982 fps 24,800 cup. max load 11.5 gr 1100 fps 30,200 cup. 300 pushed by alliant 2400 start load 18 gr. 1019 fps 25,000 cup max load 19.5 gr 1166 fps 30,00 cup. FPS is from a 7" test barrel win brass, primers win LP. there is loads for hodgdon, IMR, Winch, alliant powders if needed I also have some loads from Accuracte Arms manual and Hornady's. Accurate arms manual and alliants are online free you can get a some free loads from beartooth bullets site I beleive its called load swap on the main page. danny
Side note: If your running speer deep curl pure copper jacket they dont take as much powder to push as fasst as a regular jacketed bullet I found this out loading them for a 300 savage.

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:42 pm

Owen - I've got the new Speer manual too. If you still need the info, post the powders you'd like to use here and I'll post the start and max loads for you. Might be that someone else here could benefit from this too. - DixieBoy

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:43 pm

Thanks guys.......All the info. seems to list different powders than I have. A shopping I will go.

Owen

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:45 pm

Can I ask a really strange question before I go work on my latest sewing machine?

Why can't you just go buy a new Speer loading manual?

Real books work without electricity. They don't crash like your computer does. Their web sites aren't down when you need the data. They look good all lined up in the book case. New books even smell good.

Just curious.

And I have most of the Speer manuals all the way back from #1 to #13. I'm only missing #'s 2, 4 and 14. But I'll get 'em.

JOE

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:22 pm

J Miller wrote:Can I ask a really strange question before I go work on my latest sewing machine?

Why can't you just go buy a new Speer loading manual?
JOE

These books cost between 30-50 dollars. I don't want to have to buy an 800 page book to use one page for one bullet. I have the same issue with Speer and Sierra.

Fortunately, Alliant lists a lot of loads for Speer. you might want to check there. Plus, why risk buying a book when you don't know for sure what you are looking for is there?

I am trying to choose which bullets and which powders to buy. What if I by the Speer book, and then find out that they only list powders I don't have. What if I decide after reading this, that I don't want to use Speer bullets?

I don't know what your situation is, but it feels like extortion to me to have to gamble on buying the bullet or the book if I don't know it will meet my needs of velocity, pressure, etc.

For example. I saw that Lyman had a reloading manual, and it cost a few tens of dollars. RCBS has one. Speer has one. Sierra has one. Which one should I buy? I got the Lyman manual with my reloading kit, and I was immediately disappointed with the load data. One page of load data for 357. And almost no mention of bullet brands. All cast bullets are called "Linotype". Hmm. The reloading manuals load different for different lead bullets of the same weight.

But most of all, I probably only will buy just one Speer bullet. The TMJ in 357 magnum. I will need one powder probably for this. So I should spend $40 on a book for one line of one chart on one page?

No way.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:25 pm

I know this is hard to believe , but I was lucky to be able to buy the bullets. I've been poor for too long. I thought my Lyman book went to that heavy of bullets when I bought them.

Owen

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:32 pm

hightime wrote:I was just going to try some 300 gr. 452 dia. jacketed bullets. My reloading manuals doesn't list any info for that heavy of a bullet and Speer won't let me have the info unless I buy their book. Not fair to spend $25 for bullets and $30 for a book to load them. I usally cast and may never buy those bullets again.

Owen

Did you look on the alliant website? What caliber rifle is this for? A 454 Casull or a 45-70 or something?

I would like some speer or sierra loading data myself, however I am not sure its right to ask for copywrited (copyrighted?) data from you all. I mean, if we were friends and neighbors, I could go over and ask to borrow the book.

But asking someone to provide the data over the internet... not that I am a total square, but it does make me squirm a little. Not judging anyone. What do you all think?

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:42 pm

Owen tell me what powder you have I'll look and see if I have a manual and a load for it that might work for you. danny

william iorg · Post by **william iorg** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:59 pm

I don’t have a stake in a fight with the bullet companies and their manuals. I understand about not having two nickles to rub together - been there - more than once.

I bought the new Speer No. 14 Manual and I got one of the copies with pagination troubles. Ticked me off.
With this said, the Speer No 13 Manual was a favorite for sitting in a comfy chair and day dreaming. The No 14 manual does not have quite the same warm spot with me but it isstill a good book for day dreaming and comparing cartridges. If you only read the pages that cover the cartridges and powders you have on hand you will not be happy with any reloading manual. Part of the joy is comparing cartridges, efficiency, trajectory and the versatility of powders. Take it from a guy who travels too much - you can spend quite a few enjoyable evenings with the television in the off mode and the load book open.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:16 pm

william iorg wrote:I don’t have a stake in a fight with the bullet companies and their manuals. I understand about not having two nickles to rub together - been there - more than once.

I bought the new Speer No. 14 Manual and I got one of the copies with pagination troubles. Ticked me off.
With this said, the Speer No 13 Manual was a favorite for sitting in a comfy chair and day dreaming. The No 14 manual does not have quite the same warm spot with me but it isstill a good book for day dreaming and comparing cartridges. If you only read the pages that cover the cartridges and powders you have on hand you will not be happy with any reloading manual. Part of the joy is comparing cartridges, efficiency, trajectory and the versatility of powders. Take it from a guy who travels too much - you can spend quite a few enjoyable evenings with the television in the off mode and the load book open.

I agree. I love it. That's one reason I have Ken Waters' book "Pet Loads". Read it all, many times. Have had 4 copies and gave the older ones/worn out ones away. Love it. Bought the book when I didn't have 2 nickels and ate ramen a couple of weeks to get a new copy. But then, I love reloading in and of itself. Not everyone does. Many can only see the cheap ammo and they approach the whole game that way.

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:31 pm

hightime wrote:I know this is hard to believe , but I was lucky to be able to buy the bullets. I've been poor for too long. I thought my Lyman book went to that heavy of bullets when I bought them.

Owen

Yeah, i sympathize. Anyway, check the Alliant page. It may give you some options.

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:33 pm

Hobie, you are a moderator here. Is it unethical for me to ask people for the loads out of the speer books they have?

model55 · Post by **model55** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:49 pm

Pretty much my feelings with Barnes.Bullets are more expense ,you get half what you used to,You buy the book and it is so full of photos that some calibers are completely ignored even though they produce bullets for them.Then read their description of the 30-30.........

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:11 pm

This just my opinion you understand, but I think it's a bit near sighted to say "I'm gonna just use this one __________ bullet with one powder in my one rifle, so I'm not gonna buy the whole book.

I have all but three Speer manuals.
I have many Hornady manuals.
I have every Winchester manual I could get my hands on until they sold out to Hodgdons.
I have every DuPont / IMR manual I could get my hands on until they sold out to Hodgdons.
I have many many Hercules / Alliant manuals.
I have all but one of the Hodgdons Annual manuals.
I have others from different sources too. Some dating back to the 1930s.

Some years ago I came up with some Alcan AL-7 powder. This powder was still good and useable, but hasn't existed since the 70s. I found data for it in the Speer manuals.

I almost always use Speer, Sierra or Hornady bullets.
Where do find the data for them. Let me think on that a minute ...... IN THE MANUALS.

In 10 years will you be able to find the data you used today from the internet? Doubtful.
In 10 years will I be able to find the data I pulled out of the manual I used today. Absolutely yes.

I'm glad to help out when I can, and have shared much reloading data to those who can't afford it, or are in a situation that prevents them from timely acquisition of a manual. But will I give out data from the manual I paid money for to a person who refuses to do so ...... absolutely - not.

Midway has:
the Speer #14 manual for $28.99
the Hornady 8th Edition for $27.99
the Hodgdon 2012 Annual Manual for $7.99
plus many more here: http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcateg ... onid=13924

Money well spent in my NOT SO HUMBLE OPINION.

JOE

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:24 pm

Thats a valid point, Joe. I felt the same way when I tried out a subscriber investment service. It was supposed to be limited membership, just 1000 members, and the investment advice was specialized. However, it turned out that one or two members would take the advice we received and posted it immediately on AOL forums for all to see. It ticked us off.

However, its not that I refuse to pay for the books, its just that it feels risky, and its a lot of money. I already said the Lyman book was a disappointment. How can I expect a bullet specific book to be any better? Three books costs over $100 dollars. That is a monthly power bill, three tanks of gas or what ever.

ANd the point has still been made. I think we should be able to buy a bullet and be able to use it. Without having to buy the information needed to use it.THATs just MHO.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:42 pm

FWiedner wrote:
hightime wrote:I was just going to try some 300 gr. 452 dia. jacketed bullets. My reloading manuals doesn't list any info for that heavy of a bullet and Speer won't let me have the info unless I buy their book. Not fair to spend $25 for bullets and $30 for a book to load them. I usally cast and may never buy those bullets again.

Owen
I understand what you're saying, but disagree with your stance.

Yeah, Speer ought to get paid for the data they underwrote & developed & which they sell in their book. Our copyright & patent laws are pretty clear on that.

harry · Post by **harry** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:14 pm

FatJackDurham wrote:
hightime wrote:I was just going to try some 300 gr. 452 dia. jacketed bullets. My reloading manuals doesn't list any info for that heavy of a bullet and Speer won't let me have the info unless I buy their book. Not fair to spend $25 for bullets and $30 for a book to load them. I usally cast and may never buy those bullets again.

Owen
Did you look on the alliant website? What caliber rifle is this for? A 454 Casull or a 45-70 or something?

I would like some speer or sierra loading data myself, however I am not sure its right to ask for copywrited (copyrighted?) data from you all. I mean, if we were friends and neighbors, I could go over and ask to borrow the book.

But asking someone to provide the data over the internet... not that I am a total square, but it does make me squirm a little. Not judging anyone. What do you all think?

FatJackDurham, .452 won't fit in a 45/70
Harry

Mac in Mo · Post by **Mac in Mo** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:24 am

Another suggestion is to find the small, caliber specific manuals. I have a few. I think a couple of mine were put out by Midway and since discontinued, but there must be some out there still. I think the Midway versions were called Load Maps, maybe?

Kevin

harry · Post by **harry** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:01 am

As said above the "Load Books" can be usefull.
http://www.loadbooks.com/
And you might try the library for reloading books.
Harry

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:22 am

Well, for goodness' sake.

Owen, if you're still in this quandry, let us know that this is, indeed, a .45 Colt that you're loading for. If it's Speer's 300 grain jacketed bullet, I'll post the starting and max loads for the powders you've got, that are listed in the latest (#14) manual. I've got it here at home.

Hobie, I hear you, about reloading being an enjoyable hobby in its own right. The fact that it dovetails so beautifully with SHOOTING is icing on the cake, isn't it ?

I'll watch for this thread tomorrow, and if you're still looking Owen, give a shout. - DixieBoy

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:47 am

FatJackDurham, .452 won't fit in a 45/70
Harry

No? Nuts. Guess if I had had a decent reloading manual, i would have known that...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:59 am

FatJackDurham,

I guess I look at paper books in a different way. There is no "risk" factor to them, to me. They may or may not have exactly the data I think I want, but many times I've found other data that works very well.
.........................................................

Now, here is a couple tips;

A:
The 45-70 is nominally .458". Lets do the math.
.458"
-.452"
=.006"

So the .452" inch bullet will fit in the .45-70 with room to spare.
Light enough fire under it's bottom and it might just shoot pretty good.

B:
When we are discussing jacketed or cast bullets data is pretty much interchangeable.
You can use Hornady data for Speer bullets. Sierra data for Hornady bullets. Nosler data for Winchester bullets and so on.
The caveat is that the bullets are the same construction, same weight, and same design.
A 300gr JSP or JHP Speer, is the same as a 300gr Hornady or so on.

Just remember, use the starting load and work up. If there is no starting load, back down at least 10% (unless you're using 296/H110) then work up.

Hand loading is a precise thing, but it's not rocket science.

Joe

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:26 pm

J Miller wrote:
B:
When we are discussing jacketed or cast bullets data is pretty much interchangeable.
You can use Hornady data for Speer bullets. Sierra data for Hornady bullets. Nosler data for Winchester bullets and so on.
The caveat is that the bullets are the same construction, same weight, and same design.
A 300gr JSP or JHP Speer, is the same as a 300gr Hornady or so on.

Joe

See, now this is something I was curious about. A FMJ round nose or flat point (not soft point) has the lead exposed at the base. But, what about hollow point or soft point? Is the jacket cover the base and expose the lead on the front? So the weights might be the same, but the design different, right?

So, the FTX bullet has the same basic design as the XTP, except for the rubber tip instead of a hollow point. Because the bullet is longer, a Magnum XTP case has to be trimmed down to make the COL. However, lets ignore that issue and assume I would seat the FTX exactly the same case volume as the XTP. Or if you like, I have company X jacketed hollow point instead of Hornady XTP. If they are both 158 grain, its generally safe to use the Hornady load data?

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:59 pm

You guys have come though again. Thanks a bunch. I decided to stay away from those 300 gr .452 and the different powder I'd need to buy. Shooter's supply let me trade for Hornaday 250's and now I'm back to the Lyman manual and Unique powder. All's good.

For those of you that have listened to my trouble getting my Uberti 1873 to group well, it's getting better the more I shoot, and because of what some of you said '' shoot a few hundred rounds of jacketed rounds though it'' I am.

I am now getting 1 1/2'' groupings at 30 yds. I'm hoping for better, but it's comming along. I'm also developing some loads I think are working better.

Owen

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:20 pm

FatJackDurham wrote:Hobie, you are a moderator here. Is it unethical for me to ask people for the loads out of the speer books they have?

Well, now that is a good question and it has rattled my cage a bit.

If we were discussing a particular bullet and the proper powder and somebody mentions that the Speer manual says so much powder with their bullet of a given weight and somebody else says, hey, the Sierra manual says to use such and such charge with that powder and their bullet of the same weight, then that is ok. BUT to simply post the data as copied from the manual in lieu of you buying the manual that isn't right. It isn't legal and I don't think it is right.

On the other hand if you write a friend and say something like, "you know what I'm trying to do, what range of loads with such and such powder does the Speer manual recommend?" I think that is fair use and how in the heck is anybody going to judge it anyway. It is no different from you sitting in my loading room chatting with me and grabbing the book to check the loads.

Often times I post the charges I use here or in my blog. Almost ALL of those charges are from some printed manual somewhere OR have been worked up to from extrapolated data from some manual. Those few that haven't come from a manual are the result of years of experimentation/use/testing by myself or somebody I trust. In every case, because I can't control exactly how that data is interpreted, executed, etc, I am not responsible for anyone else's use of that information.

When I first started loading I got the Lyman manual(s) (shotgun and rifle/pistol). I still have them but I there are no more than 300 pages in the rifle/pistol manual and the shotgun manual is less than half that in size. THAT was my sole reference. I had to figure everything out from there. One thing I figured out was that if I wanted more data I had to get more manuals and manuals were part of the cost of reloading. Those manuals cost me about $8-10 or about $44-55 in today's money. They were worth it to me.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 pm

The reloading manuals are often available in the public library. Asking for one particular load is no different than copying one out of a library book.

It's "Fair Use".

OTOH, if you want me to scan in my Lyman 47 and post a copy... sorry.

jlchucker · Post by **jlchucker** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:06 am

When I first started handloading, it was with a kit, put together by RCBS, that included a 5-10 scale, powder measure, RCBS Jr (iron) press, and a Speer loading manual. So I started off on Speer bullets. Later on, as I took up loading for more calibers, I got a Hornaday Manual--the version that came out before Hornaday went to two volumes. I wandered away from Speer when the Lee factory crimp die came out and Speer started advertisements that villified Lee. I thought that was a bit whiney on the part of Speer, and haven't used Speer bullets since. Besides, the Hornaday book had more info. As I got more and more involved in casting my own bullets, I started acquiring Lyman manuals, which contain data on cast as well as jacketed bullets. After discussions with my friend who owns a gunshop, I felt he had a point. He reasoned that Lyman does not produce jacketed bullets, so therefore the jacketed data they print is unbiased, and a handloader is going to experiment for optimum loads for his/her firearms anyway. His reasoning seems like it's pretty sound. If one stays within the published parameters, it's possible to work up a decent, accurate load for every rifle I've come across so far. Cast bullets, even though Lyman has long been involved in casting, is a whole different ballgame, and you need to look at a whole lot more data, and do a whole lot more experimentation than what's found in the Lyman books--yet their books are still a good resource.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:48 pm

One cannot have TOO MANY reloading manuals. I'm reloading manual poor, but still shy of Joe's collection.

FWIW, nose design is NOT as important as base design or base to crimp groove distance. That detail might not be noted anywhere, but it will be accountted for in the load data. Another manufacturer's 300 (or 250, 225, 200 or whaatever wt.), bullet might have a different seating depth and it's load data would be different.

FatJackDurham wrote:
atJackDurham, .452 won't fit in a 45/70
Harry
No? Nuts. Guess if I had had a decent reloading manual, i would have known that...

Actually, if you have a .45-70 you should know that. The number designator for any round is seldom exact; mostly, not even close!

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:26 pm

I guess If I'm willing to try one box of $30 Speer bullets, they could add one half page of their data on that bullet. What would be the harm of that? If I liked those and wanted to buy more Speer, then I might want to buy the whole manual.
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way. I brought the box back and got Hornaday. Who's going to miss my money?

Owen

harry · Post by **harry** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:30 pm

hightime wrote:I guess If I'm willing to try one box of $30 Speer bullets, they could add one half page of their data on that bullet. What would be the harm of that? If I liked those and wanted to buy more Speer, then I might want to buy the whole manual.
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way. I brought the box back and got Hornaday. Who's going to miss my money?

Owen

No one
Harry

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:12 pm

FatJackDurham wrote:
J Miller wrote:
B:
When we are discussing jacketed or cast bullets data is pretty much interchangeable.
You can use Hornady data for Speer bullets. Sierra data for Hornady bullets. Nosler data for Winchester bullets and so on.
The caveat is that the bullets are the same construction, same weight, and same design.
A 300gr JSP or JHP Speer, is the same as a 300gr Hornady or so on.

Joe
See, now this is something I was curious about. A FMJ round nose or flat point (not soft point) has the lead exposed at the base. But, what about hollow point or soft point? Is the jacket cover the base and expose the lead on the front? So the weights might be the same, but the design different, right?
Yes the design may be different, but in THIS case the bullets, both jacketed, are close enough you can use the same powder data for them. I've done it thousands of times. Loaded many thousands of FMJ and JHP bullets in my .45 ACPs using the same powder charge. Nary an issue, and more than enough consistent accuracy to go around.

So, the FTX bullet has the same basic design as the XTP, except for the rubber tip instead of a hollow point. Because the bullet is longer, a Magnum XTP case has to be trimmed down to make the COL. However, lets ignore that issue and assume I would seat the FTX exactly the same case volume as the XTP. Or if you like, I have company X jacketed hollow point instead of Hornady XTP. If they are both 158 grain, its generally safe to use the Hornady load data?
Short answer = yes. Long answer = yes, but you'll get some variation in velocity and maybe accuracy. Here is an example for you. Back a couple decades Hornady made a real nice 250gr JHP for the .45 Colt. There was a load in the then current Hornady loading manual of 8.8grs of Unique for that bullet. I forget the claimed velocity. In all of my guns that combination shot excellent groups. Then in their corporate wisdom Hornady discontinued the JHP and went to the XTP-HP. Well, it's the same weight, basically the same design, but just a bit different in shape. My super great 8.8grs of Unique was no longer a good load. Pressure was good, accuracy was junk. I haven't been able to get any kind of accuracy with the XTP-HPs at normal SAAMI .45 Colt pressure with any powder. Here is an example of two similar bullets being enough different that though safe with the same loads, they require different treatment.

hightime wrote:You guys have come though again. Thanks a bunch. I decided to stay away from those 300 gr .452 and the different powder I'd need to buy. Shooter's supply let me trade for Hornaday 250's and now I'm back to the Lyman manual and Unique powder. All's good.

For those of you that have listened to my trouble getting my Uberti 1873 to group well, it's getting better the more I shoot, and because of what some of you said '' shoot a few hundred rounds of jacketed rounds though it'' I am.

I am now getting 1 1/2'' groupings at 30 yds. I'm hoping for better, but it's comming along. I'm also developing some loads I think are working better.

Owen

Told ya so .....

Sometimes you just gotta work 'em in.

hightime wrote:I guess If I'm willing to try one box of $30 Speer bullets, they could add one half page of their data on that bullet. What would be the harm of that? If I liked those and wanted to buy more Speer, then I might want to buy the whole manual.
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way. I brought the box back and got Hornaday. Who's going to miss my money?

Owen

So, did Hornady put in a half page of data for your convenience?
Never found any data in any box of Hornady bullets I've bought.

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:07 pm

hightime wrote:I guess If I'm willing to try one box of $30 Speer bullets, they could add one half page of their data on that bullet. What would be the harm of that? If I liked those and wanted to buy more Speer, then I might want to buy the whole manual.
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way. I brought the box back and got Hornaday. Who's going to miss my money?
Owen

Their data isn't organized by bullet, but by CARTRIDGE. That 300 grain bullet might have 4 or 5+ cartridges it could be loaded in. Handing out info on that bullet for all practical cartridges it might be loaded in would possibly generate some gross errors on the part of reloaders... be they neophyte or experienced. I think you're being a little too "...I want it my way, for free..." oriented, and not looking at the bigger picture. Is that likely to be the ONLY Speer bullet you ever buy? For any cartridge, ever? I only use 3 or 4 of their bullets, but I have two editions of their reloading manual. One from 1973 when I started reloaded, and one newer own I bought about 5 years ago. BTW: Speer manual #14 @ Midway: $28.99, but just as viable a source for good info: EBay... who sez you have to have the newest edition? From 1959 to #14, $5 and up... some of those are bargains. Look, a #12 or even a #11 oughta have 300gr. .452 bullets in .45Colt under the Ruger/Contender stuff. (There's a #14 in there for about $15 right now). And then there's always our favorite overpriced book place: Amazon.com has Speer Manuals.

There's more'n one way to skin a cat. BTW, buying used deprives the publisher of ANY income from your purchase.

FatJackDurham · Post by **FatJackDurham** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:18 pm

My local library had no loading manuals...

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:12 am

I got a free book from Hornaday. Yes, I like them better, But I learned to stay to bullets listed in my Lyman book for now.

Owen