Handgun vs Carbine (woods walking)

[madman4570]

Guys,
Since moving back to New York state and have yet begun my CCW process for New York(big difference from Pa)am told just the review application process is out 6 months

This as of late has brought new questions/feelings to light about the best thing to carry when hiking/walking the woods?

In Pa it was pretty much simple(going for a hike,strap on the 6" S&W 629 and off we go)
I NEVER even entertained the notion of these newer designed carbines(for that purpose)heck some didn't even know they existed.(like the Sub2K)
Sure I have a few carbines(Ruger Ranch/Ruger 10/22,etc)but I viewed them more as target/varmint/bad guy stuff.
My thinking was (nothing can beat something small on the side of your hip)

However,now---Since I have actually been "forced"(I mean,for now if I want to carry a firearm woods walking in NY)I need to carry a "legal length "rifle" barreled gun of some type. Sometimes(having to)makes new things come up that you wouldn't realize.

First, while in Pa (I never even realized they have these tiny 4lb folding weapons(folds to 7" X 16")basically same general size/weight as my Raging Bull(I mean daughters boyfriends Bull now)

Yesterday, I took one of my Sub2K's out back(the one I carry) with my brother and he had his new Sub2K(that I got him)
We shot some groups(he wanted to break his in a little and see it was reliable.(shooting 50yds)
He shot about a box(while fine tuning his sights in between) Using MagTech 180grainers

Mine seems to just shoot almost unbelievably(I showed him my last target)and he just grinned at me.
So I opened another box(same type ammo)told him to shoot just 3 rds not the 5 usually shoot(it shot a group about 1.8" at (4 o'clock)
I asked to try his and my group was about 1.3" (11 o'clock)
Then I asked him to try mine, he shoot a group about 1.25" (5 o'clock)said my trigger was a tad smoother.
I shot a group(not the one hole group prior but .80")
Remember this is standing using a 5" dia little oak for support.

He was happy with his. So we got to talking.(about these for woods carry)

Bottom line,now after carrying these little guns(I use a Tactical Sling)and feel actually for this type walking/hiking etc.
it is just as comfortable as actually carrying my loaded 629.

Besides, being truthful there is no doubt in my mind that I can get off 10rds much faster than 6rds from the 629(much faster/much more accurate/at a much farther distance)and with that tactical sling the draw/ready to action is as quick if not faster???

I know the 44mag has more power/however I feel that the enhanced accuracy/distance/staggered FMJ with JHP ammo(both 180grs)and at enhanced rifle velocity does up its game from just a normal 40 S&W ????????
Without any support(the tree)offhand---at 50yds my typical groups are 3.5" and centered well so it positively beats what I can shoot my 629 at 50yds offhand. (would have no problem shooting a bear in the head multiple times)with the carbine.And I know those 180gr FMJ will put its lights out.
When I do receive my NY CCW and bring my handguns into NY point is (for woods carry)I will still be carrying my carbine(tactical)

Am I crazy??????????

[Pitchy]

I`ve been carrying a rifle, usually my Marlin CB on walks almost all the time anymore. I find wearing a handgun on my hip gets heavy and in the way where as the rifle i can set down when taking a rest.
I feel a lot safer carrying the rifle also because it is more accurate for me in a quick shot scenario.
But i`m talking heavy guns too, Vaquero and Levergun, a light revolver is a little different but the rifle still holds a edge for defense IMO.

[Catshooter]

Madman,

You'll find lot's of people are down on the pistol chambered carbines. Some are just down on Kel-Tecs. Mostly these people haven't tried them, but the carbines just don't fit into their narrow little box of reality.

The little folding rifle has a real place in the tool box, or so I feel. I fire lapped mine and it will put a full mag (33 rounds) into a tiny ragged hole at 25 yards.


Enjoy yours.


Cat

[L_Kilkenny]

Before I had my permit and wanted to carry a handgun while woods bummin I just made sure to have a valid hunting license and played in areas that allowed hunting. Figured if anyone gave me crud my story was coyote hunting was on the menu. Continuous open season. Not sure about NYS but handguns are legal for hunting here in Iowa and there is no difference between them, a carbine or a rifle.

Now while we don't have dangerous toothy critters here, if it came down to my only option is to carry a carbine for woods bummin, even one as small as the Keltecs, I'd go without. But then again that also goes for a BFR, wouldn't carry one of those around here either. When out woods bummin my maximum would be considered by most to be a kit gun.

Now those little Keltecs have been drawing my attention lately and it's good to hear reports on em. Glad you like yours.

LK

[ving-thorr]

Just make sure you never set your carbine on your tailgate.

When i had the misfortune to live in the peoples' soviet socialist republic of new york, i ran into trouble with a game warden. I had shot a grouse and was cleaning it on my tailgate, laid the shotgun down next to me. Big mistake. Game warden pulls up and asks me if it's loaded. Of course it's loaded, i don't club grouse. He tells me I'm under arrest for having "a loaded firearm in or on a motorized vehicle". He told me even if it was leaning against the tire he'd arrest me. At the time i was an infantryman fresh back from afghanistan, not a NY native, just stationed there, and the guy knew it too. I told him it was pretty fubar that i can run around someone else's country with a 240B but can't even set my own shotgun, on my own tailgate, in my own country.
The charges got thrown out of course. Now I'm a LEO and I'll never forget that *&$%#, he's the perfect inspiration of what sort of LEO NOT to be. Good luck with NY and all their laws and laws and laws and laws ...

[madman4570]

Good stuff guys -----Thanks!

[olyinaz]

Just make sure you never set your carbine on your tailgate.

When i had the misfortune to live in the peoples' soviet socialist republic of new york, i ran into trouble with a game warden. I had shot a grouse and was cleaning it on my tailgate, laid the shotgun down next to me. Big mistake. Game warden pulls up and asks me if it's loaded. Of course it's loaded, i don't club grouse. He tells me I'm under arrest for having "a loaded firearm in or on a motorized vehicle". He told me even if it was leaning against the tire he'd arrest me. At the time i was an infantryman fresh back from afghanistan, not a NY native, just stationed there, and the guy knew it too. I told him it was pretty fubar that i can run around someone else's country with a 240B but can't even set my own shotgun, on my own tailgate, in my own country.
The charges got thrown out of course. Now I'm a LEO and I'll never forget that *&$%#, he's the perfect inspiration of what sort of LEO NOT to be. Good luck with NY and all their laws and laws and laws and laws ...

You said it brother! I know a lot of great LEOs, many of my former platoon mates in fact, but it's the few jerks who really give all-y'all a black eye. Sorry you had to live through that debacle. Hopefully that guy is out of the profession now...

Madman4570 - carbines are GREAT. I just flat out LOVE all of mine and, again, I cannot recommend the trusty little M1 Carbine enough. Or an original lightweight Mini-14 with the folding stock and barrel shortened to 16"? Insanely handy!

Oly

[Blaine]

This is a curmudgion-type response, but any semi-auto I've been around eventually did not function past the first shot...I can live with that, maybe, hunting, but not self defense

[L_Kilkenny]

This is a curmudgion-type response, but any semi-auto I've been around eventually did not function past the first shot...I can live with that, maybe, hunting, but not self defense

I'm going to curmudgion you right back.

While I'd be a fool to say that I've never had a semi auto malfunction I'd be just as much of a fool to say that I've never short stroked a bolt or pump gun or had other non-human related failures in manually operated firearms. As a matter of fact in the field on a shot for shot comparison I'd say I'm more reliable with a semi than other platforms because I remove a good chunk of human error or the "LK effect" if you please.

LK

[COSteve]

This is a curmudgion-type response, but any semi-auto I've been around eventually did not function past the first shot...I can live with that, maybe, hunting, but not self defense

Blaine, you may just need to get the right semi-auto and keep it clean and maintained to change your mind. Case in point; I have a Glock 22, 40 cal I've had since it was new with well over 27,000 rds through it. In that time, it's never seen a commercial round and I've fed it everything from mouse fanny burp 135grn to 180grn screamers. In all that time, it has never, no not even once, failed to feed or cycle a round. Yes, I've had failures to fire at times but every one has been because ammo related; not the fault of the Glock, and not an issue that would have been successful in any firearm.

Further, my CCW piece, a Glock 23, has over 9,000 rds through it, also without a single failure either (I carefully check my ammo that goes into it). Even my custom Glock 20/21L is highly reliable once I tuned it up after I made it. It has over 9,000 rds of hot 10mm and no extraction issues as well as over 7,000 rds of hot 45acp, also with no gun related problems. However, I keep my weapons cleaned and maintained, including replacing the trigger spring, firing pin spring, and especially the magazine springs every 5,000 rds as well as the extractor and extractor spring, firing pin and firing pin safety spring, and recoil spring every 10,000 rds just to be sure.

[Hobie]

Even in VA there are legal considerations depending on WHERE you are. E.g. on national forest (state forest, parks, etc.) we may carry concealed with the CHP but cannot carry open carry anything else unless there is a hunting season (season being a key word) in effect AND you have a valid license and applicable stamp such as the National Forest stamp. So far this has pretty much limited us for rifle/shotgun carry to the period of September to February. With CHPs relatively easy to acquire here, a concealed handgun is the way to go.

[L_Kilkenny]

Even in VA there are legal considerations depending on WHERE you are. E.g. on national forest (state forest, parks, etc.) we may carry concealed with the CHP but cannot carry open carry anything else unless there is a hunting season (season being a key word) in effect AND you have a valid license and applicable stamp such as the National Forest stamp. So far this has pretty much limited us for rifle/shotgun carry to the period of September to February. With CHPs relatively easy to acquire here, a concealed handgun is the way to go.

Hobie, what are your coyote seasons like? Ground hogs? Etc? Seems to me there is always something open. But then again, with easy to acquire permits who cares.

LK

[Hobie]

Even in VA there are legal considerations depending on WHERE you are. E.g. on national forest (state forest, parks, etc.) we may carry concealed with the CHP but cannot carry open carry anything else unless there is a hunting season (season being a key word) in effect AND you have a valid license and applicable stamp such as the National Forest stamp. So far this has pretty much limited us for rifle/shotgun carry to the period of September to February. With CHPs relatively easy to acquire here, a concealed handgun is the way to go.

Hobie, what are your coyote seasons like? Ground hogs? Etc? Seems to me there is always something open. But then again, with easy to acquire permits who cares.

LK

That is a GOOD question. Apparently year-around seasons, such as for groundhogs, are not "seasons" for that purpose...

[Blaine]

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

[AJMD429]

Am I crazy??????????

Well, yes, but that's a different issue...

The only reason I don't carry my little Rossi 92 .357 Mag is that it's a bit un-handy vs. a holstered handgun (though for some situations the carbine is handier - say climbing through tangle-downs of grapevine and trees and so on).

With the semiauto stuff, though, I'd be afraid some hot-shot NYC cop might get 'jealous' you have such a cool toy, and dream up a reason to confiscate it. As others have noted above, they can pretty much INVENT 'reasons' when they want to.

Nice to have the option of either one, ideally - or both...!

[jkbrea]

Guys,

Bottom line,now after carrying these little guns(I use a Tactical Sling)and feel actually for this type walking/hiking etc.
it is just as comfortable as actually carrying my loaded 629.

Besides, being truthful there is no doubt in my mind that I can get off 10rds much faster than 6rds from the 629(much faster/much more accurate/at a much farther distance)and with that tactical sling the draw/ready to action is as quick if not faster???

I know the 44mag has more power/however I feel that the enhanced accuracy/distance/staggered FMJ with JHP ammo(both 180grs)and at enhanced rifle velocity does up its game from just a normal 40 S&W ????????
Without any support(the tree)offhand---at 50yds my typical groups are 3.5" and centered well so it positively beats what I can shoot my 629 at 50yds offhand. (would have no problem shooting a bear in the head multiple times)with the carbine.And I know those 180gr FMJ will put its lights out.
When I do receive my NY CCW and bring my handguns into NY point is (for woods carry)I will still be carrying my carbine(tactical)

Am I crazy??????????

No, you're not crazy.....carrry 'em both! That way, if you shoot a bear, put the revolver in it's hand and claim self defense!

[madman4570]

[Marlin32]

I used to live on the Blue River, sometimes carried both, a Vaquero in 45 colt and a marlin in 357 with me. Once on a "walk" happened on to a strange man sitting in my deer stand and he aske me "who the "F" I was" (mistakenly so be assured) As he realized he was in wrong spot, he tried to get friendlier (as he was being escorted off my property) and asked me "if I was hunting" And I replied "Nope"

He was non-resident archery hunter from back east, he was bit taken aback that I was carrying not just a revolver, but a rifle too, and for no appearant reason he could think of but maybe shooting trespassers.

But in that neck of the woods, you would be strange one if you didn't have some sort of gun on you.

[rjohns94]

Madman, ur notnany crazier than the rest of us! A paratrooper carbine in 30 cal was my woods walking buddy for years. a trapper carbine rates up there too. Those were days when I was on private property. Walking in public places when not hunting gets a little iffy. Ghats why I go with a handgun now. I also like woods walking with a sisde by side shotgun. I just picked up an old stevens 22lr/410 combo. I'm sure I will be doing some woods walking with that one.

[2ndovc]

Was just doing this last weekend, though in PA not NY just a few miles away.

For me it depends on my mood and the season.

I usually have an out of state lic for PA and if there's something in season I'll have the appropriate firearm.

However last weekend I was just wandering around with my dog, but since it's warming up and the black bears may be up and around I had a .308 bolt gun w/ a .380 in my pocket the first day. Next day since I'd seen nothing more than a dozen turkeys I had my .44 mag , three speed loaders and another 12 loose rounds I was feeling pretty comfortable.
My 150# Great Dane didn't hurt either.

jb

[20cows]

Even in VA there are legal considerations depending on WHERE you are. E.g. on national forest (state forest, parks, etc.) we may carry concealed with the CHP but cannot carry open carry anything else unless there is a hunting season (season being a key word) in effect AND you have a valid license and applicable stamp such as the National Forest stamp. So far this has pretty much limited us for rifle/shotgun carry to the period of September to February. With CHPs relatively easy to acquire here, a concealed handgun is the way to go.

Hobie, what are your coyote seasons like? Ground hogs? Etc? Seems to me there is always something open. But then again, with easy to acquire permits who cares.

LK

That is a GOOD question. Apparently year-around seasons, such as for groundhogs, are not "seasons" for that purpose...

I think I'd have a coyote call in my pocket at all times.

[L_Kilkenny]

I think I'd have a coyote call in my pocket at all times.

I thought that too and often did. Allpredatorcalls.com has a little closed reed that is about the size of a poker chip and Johnny Stewart has a Mini that's small too (effective also). In a pinch, sucking noises on the back of my hand will suffice.

LK

[1894c]

grew up in NYS---moved, never to return... :)

[1894c]

yes... :)