Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

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KirkD
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Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by KirkD »

Rifle: Winchester 1873, 44 WCF (aka 44-40), received in warehouse August 1, 1889

Image

Groove diameter: I pounded a .4305 diameter soft lead bullet down the bore, thinking that would be wide enough. Upon exiting, I could see that the lead slug had not even touched the bottoms of the grooves. This old 44-40 has a groove diameter of at least .431 if not even bigger.

Bullet: 200 grain plain base bullet from Lyman mould 427666, using wheel weights sized to .429.

Load: 18.5 grains of 5744 for about 1,286 fps. Here's a photo of my cartridges ....

Image

I was not at all optimistic about this first range trial because my lead bullets were undersize by at least .002 if not more. I expected that leading would commence fairly rapidly and within one or two shots, I would not even be on paper. 18.5 grains of 5744 gave me original black powder ballistics, but with a significantly lower peak pressure, which would make it unlikely that the bullet would be bumped up to seal the throat. Regardless, I decided to head off to the range to establish a lower baseline for bad loads.

Shooting set-up: For fine shooting were accuracy is important, I use my shooting bag for a rest. I don't have one of those fancy expensive bench rests, but someday I'd like to get one. I rested my left fist on a pile I made up of my iPhone with my wallet stacked on top of it. The rear stock then rested on my fist, which sat on top of that little pile. Here's a photo of my shooting set-up ....

Image

Results:

Since I had no idea where the sights pointed, I took a shot at 50 yards to see if I was on paper (8 ½" x 11). The windage looked good and I was a bit high. I figured I should be good for 100 yards, so I took a shot at 100 yards and went down to look at it. Bang on. I then changed the paper and went back and took 3 careful shots. It was hard because that front sight was blurry what with my old eyes and the wind making them teary. Then I went down to check. What a surprise! The three shots gave me a group of 2 1/8" at 100 yards. This old '73 has potential, as I'm sure that group was a bit loose due to the fact that the sights were blurry. A younger fellow could really drive tacks with this old gun. Here's the target ....

Image

I then put up a fresh sheet and used my last five rounds. Two of the shots were right on where they should be. The third was a couple inches left and high, and the last two were just off the paper to the right. I figured the old '73 was starting to lead up with those undersize bullets. Still, the first 7 rounds were all bang on. I went home and peered down the barrel. Clean and shiny from the muzzle end, but looking through the breech end, it looked like leading in the grooves just forward of the chamber. When I shoved that first piece of flannel soaked in Hoppes No. 9 down the bore, I could feel increasing rough friction as the patch got hear the bore. It actually cleaned out quite easily. Perhaps it is due to the fact that this bore is shiny, smooth and pretty much mint. (Don, I'm getting some turpentine tomorrow).

Next Steps:

I have to bump up the bullet to fill the throat. I have three options:

1. According to my copy of a Winchester 1896 catalogue, their 44 WCF (44-40) bullets were made of 'pure lead'. Those would bump up easier that wheel weights. I plan to make me some this weekend.

2. Use FFFg. That will give me a nice sharp pressure spike significantly higher than my 5744 load.

3. Use a faster smokeless powder to give me a pressure spike closer to FFFg.

I could also go with a combination of pure lead bullet and faster powder. I think I'll start with a pure lead bullet and my 5744 load.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Sixgun »

Kirk,
You sure ain't letting no grass grow under that '73. :D

Get another mould. Most Lee's I've played with will drop 'em at .431. Use 20-1 lead to tin with no antimony and push 'em with Unique.-----------Sixgun
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by KirkD »

Sixgun, that Unique load of yours is looking better every day. I pretty sure that with a pure lead bullet and that Unique load of yours, all leading will cease ...... but we shall see. Another mould is my last re$ort.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by stew71 »

KirkD wrote:Rifle: Winchester 1873, 44 WCF (aka 44-40), received in warehouse August 1, 1889
Image
Kirk, this is one of the best photos I've seen. Might just become my desktop wallpaper at work!!
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by JerryB »

Kirk, that looks like there may be some potential in that old 73. That sure is a blessing for the first rounds out the barrel. It is a beautiful rifle.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by gamekeeper »

Kirk, you sure have found a "shooter", I reckon it wont take you long before you're photos will be of clover leaf groups..

Beautiful photo of that 73.. :mrgreen:
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Grizz »

That's just way beyond neat. Good one KirkD.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by ollogger »

that gun is sweet & shoots great for the first go at it
my 73 dont look like yours, wish it did

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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Dave »

That is strong shooting esp for the first time out! That gun is a ringer
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Why not slug the bore again with a fatter slug and really find out what you've got? Then try the same alloy bullet of correct diameter with the same load... If you really want to get Skyin-tiffick like, do a chamber cast and find out whatcha really got.. Nice rifle & good shooting.. Good Luck!
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by kimwcook »

Love it when a plan comes together. Looks like you're getting close Kirk. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Another great range report. I'm looking forward to reading about you dialing her in Kirk! :D
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Another great range report. I'm looking forward to reading about you dialing her in Kirk! :D
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by 1894c »

Kirk-- nice range report...better than nice '73...your pic's are good too...thank you for posting the details, learned something... :)
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Old Time Hunter »

Kirk, you're get'n better with age...keep it up!
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by AJMD429 »

KirkD, your posts sure don't give any fuel to the fire of the "too many OT posts" crowd...!

That is one of the most beautiful rifles I've ever seen, beautifully photographed, and skillfully shot.

Glad you were able to get that gun - you are a true afficianado. Good that it wound up in hands that will care for and appreciate it, too. Hate to see such guns just stuck in closets because they aren't "modern", or maybe even worse - just used as wall-hangers or safe-queens.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by DixieBoy »

Kirk - What Doc said. An absolutely gorgeous rifle, beautifully photographed.

I'll bet your dead soft lead bullet (or at least a bullet closer to pure lead in hardness) will give you even better accuracy. I'm personally interested in hearing if the leading is eliminated with that change or not.

If not, maybe the boys will have to take up a collection for a new mould for ya'. :) - DixieBoy
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Borregos »

Kirk, in your original post about this beauty you mentioned maybe trying SR4759, is that still on the cards?
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by KirkD »

Borregos wrote:Kirk, in your original post about this beauty you mentioned maybe trying SR4759, is that still on the cards?
When I slugged the bore and saw how large the groove diameter was, I decided to only try the faster of the two powders, although there was not much difference between the 5744 and the SR4759, I did need slightly more SR4759 to achieve the same velocity, which tells me that the actual burn rate of SR4759 in this particular cartridge is slightly slower, hence a slightly lower peak pressure. Bottom line: I've shelved my plans to try SR4759 at the moment.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by MZ5 »

What a beauty of a gun, KirkD! Congratulations! Was it truly made in 1889? It's in outstanding shape, and looks like a great shooter, too!
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Sixgun »

Kirk,
Another option I forgot about and one that I have used several times with total success. I learned this from Paco Kelly about 10 years ago

Take a bullet that you have cast from your mould and drill a hole right in the center of it so you can install a screw. Then install the screw and cut off the head. Chuck the screw in a drill that has variable speed.

Then install the slug in the mould the same way it was cast in. Apply some valve grinding compound in the cavity and slowly turn the drill on. In other words you are just lapping out the cavity. Its a trial and error thing so be careful as you don't want a bullet a half inch bigger than it used to be. :D With the velocities you are using, you really only have to pay attention to the rear band.---------------Sixgun
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by KirkD »

Now that is an interesting idea, Sixgun.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Catshooter »

As always Kirk, great photos, wonderful rifle. A mint bore on a rifle that old is terrific.

Another technique to get a larger boolit from your mould is to 'Beagle' it. Go to CastBoolits and read up on that.

Both this technique and the Sixgun discusses will of course only enlarge the bullet across one axis and will tend to make them out of round. If you size them then they should be round afterwards (if the sizer die is round, but they usually are). Often times it won't really matter, the leading goes away and accuracy improves.

It's great you got the accuracy you did. You just never know what a rifle will do with a particular bullet until you shoot it.


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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Canuck Bob »

I need to pray about my envy! You just keep exciting that. NICE RIFLE, did you burn the registration yet :twisted: .
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by KirkD »

Canuck Bob, I know what you mean. During the time my friend owned it, I had to often remind myself of the ancient command, 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's stuff'. I have thanked God a few times already now for that excellent '73.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by JerryB »

Kirk, are you up this late celabrating and burning your cards??? I sure am proud for ya'll up there.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by KirkD »

You bet, Jerry! I've been praying that the Lord would put an end to the rifle and shotgun registry for years.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by the telegraphist »

Gday Kirk, my what a beautiful rifle you have aquired, very envious. Pictures are superb.

Surprised that you have moved away from 2400 in your reloading for this rifle. 5744 is unknown in my part of the world, but assume its burn rate would be similar to H4227 or one of those, thus a bit slower than 2400. The old 13.5g 2400 behind a 200g hard cast RNFP still works a treat in my 44WCF. Look forward to further reports on this rifle.

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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Griff »

Good shootin' Kirk. That old rifle sure proved the adage that age ain't necessarily bad... beats most alternatives! At least those available outside of science fiction!
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by guido4198 »

20:1 or even 30:1- lead/tin will help. A .431-.433 bullet with a good lube will help even more. All that said...your first few rounds look exceptionally fine given what you're working with. Definitely "minute-of-deer"...!!!
Congratulations.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by M. M. Wright »

Kirk,
That wonderful Winchester would not be shot by most owners so I applaud you for letting it do what it was meant to do. The 44-40 is my favorite cartridge and the first center-fire that I ever owned. (Colt SAA from 1881 that I got in 1957 or so.) I still shoot a lot of them and most are powered with ffg. Mostly Goex these days though I've used other brands in the past. I like to cast mine from 30:1 and have never had one that required more than a .429 bullet except for an original Remington 1875 that needed a bigger bullet than would chamber. If you try the black, and you need to, remember to lube with SPG or I can give you my recipe for black powder bullet lube that is a lot cheaper and works just as well.
Love the pic. Keep 'em comin'.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by Lefty Dude »

Accurate 5744 & Dupont IMR SR4759 powders were developed as a smokless powder to be used in BP type Rifles with lead bullets. Both are low pressure powders.

I use 5744 in my Winchester 30-30, shooting lead. SR4759 in my 30-40 Krag Springfield and my 1922 CZ Chek-Brono 30 " barreled 8mm Mauser. Both shoot lead very well with this powder.
Alliant Reloader 7 is also a good powder for lead bottle-neck cartridge loads. This powder is a little hotter than the others above. Also develops more of a pressure spike.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by the telegraphist »

Lefty - thanks for the information on 5744, interesting indeed. Will try and locate some downunder.
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Re: Range Report: My 'new' 123 year-old '73 44-40

Post by KirkD »

I did some testing with 2400 with powder forward and powder back. It is very position sensitive. I have gotten an ES of over 200 fps in another 44-40. I'd rathe not have that much ES in a nice origional 73. As a result, I'm having sober second thoughts about using 2400.

Today I cast up 130 pure lead bullets to try out. Later this week I hope to try them out.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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