Any 76 owners?

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:51 pm

Anyone own a Win. 76, original or copy?
Could use a little learning about them, pics would be great and some info about the 45-75 cal.
Are they the same or close to the 45-70, please fill me in about which cal. is the best to have.
Been rubbing me for a while about getting one.
Thanks

hayabusa · Post by **hayabusa** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:09 pm

Hello Pitchy.
I picked up a new Chaparral Arms short rifle this week from CDNN. It is octagon 22" barrel,
Cal: 50/95 Winchester.

Now I am making up a list of places to order the reloading supplies.
I hope to shoot a couple of deer this coming season with it.

Other than to say it looks very good and cycles great (dry cycling no ammo or cases). The trigger seems crisp.

I have zero experience with any 1876 Winchester, original or reproduction. Pitchy, I have not even held any 1876 Winchester!

Wish I could be of some help.

My youngest son will take some pictures & post them in the next few weeks when in from college.
Right now we are replacing/changing over the old style ac compressor on his 1982 Trans Am to the late model variable displacement style like on Corvettes.

The 1876 Chaparral guns are going for $599.99 in any of several versions on the CDNN website right now, page 60 I think in the online catalog. Quite a bit more affordable than a few years ago. They ship FedEx overnight.

Hayabusa

Retro · Post by **Retro** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:24 am

Yup, and in 45-75 too. Made in 1884 or thereabouts.

Hobie has some load info on his blog somewhere ISTR.

The 45-75 is supposed to ballistically equal the 45-70, but in a shorter case to fit the 76 action. So it's bottlenecked, takes a huge shell holder, and last time I looked only two places in the world had brass available. But I heard Jamesons closed down? So brass might be tricky.

Dies from CH4D.

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:42 am

No dont own one but would surely love one in that cal 45/75. Brass is available from Bertram in Australia. Loading dies maybe a bit of a search job, but they are about. Reloading, I have some data but it is all for blackpowder loads. Which is what the design calls for. Projectiles are readily available sized to 458/459.
One thing I found out about the 76 in 45 cal is that the bores are uniformly standard at 458 with little variance. Preferred bullet weight being 300 to 350g.
Original bullet was 350g. Many of the carbines went to the NW Canadian Mounted police from 1878 till about 1905. I will probably never see an 1876 in my part of the world, however will always keep my eyes open.

She is a pretty potent round, I believe enough for North American game at moderate ranges. Was a favourite in this cal of one of the Roosevelts.(Teddy)

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:41 am

Yes, I have one. Time permitting I'll get to do some more shooting with it. Did carry it one season but didn't connect with it.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:56 am

I watched Crossfire Trail this weekend - there's a very nice .45-70 in there.

veeman · Post by **veeman** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:58 am

I must be looking wrong, all I find on the CDNN site is parts. Can we get a link?

hayabusa · Post by **hayabusa** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:17 am

veeman try (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/dowournewcat.html).

Hayabusa

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:19 am

Pitchy,
My best friend had an original in 45-60 for which I loaded the ammo. Used cut down 45-70s but had to slightly thin the rims to get the bolt to close as the originals had a thinner rim than the repros. Used a slight compression load of Goex ffg with a 300 grain bullet and a 1/8th inch card wad. Shot very well at about 80 yards.
I just traded off a Chaparral 76 in 40-60. Since it had the smaller bore it seemed a bit heavier, and I'm sure it was though I didn't weigh it. I had no problems with the Chaparral as it functioned and shot very well for me. I've seen several here pan the brand but I liked the one I had. Didn't particularly care for the wood or at least whatever the finish is they put on them. You could afford to re-stock one for the difference in price.
Remember, they are a huge, heavy rifle, sorta like a 73 on steroids. I wouldn't want to carry one all day.
I'm sure you can get all the loading necessaries from Buffalo Arms as that's where I got the stuff for the 45-60. I think you should try one of the Chaparrals (for the price) and let us know how it suits you.

M. M.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:51 am

I had a reproduction one in 45-75. shot very nice. I used it shoot a Yak and hog. Very nice round. Gad Cartridges has brass and can load ammo for you.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:56 am

Thanks for the replies guys, ya have to download their catalog on that CDNN site, then scroll down to page 60, it`s a PDF file.
599.00 seems like a good price.
Always low on cash so might have to hit a couple gun shows and see if i can trade something.
That something is the hard part.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:43 am

Here is a fine article written by our own KirkD:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/1876.pdf

SHASTA

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:51 am

I have a Chapparal 45-75 carbine and have had no problems with it. I only load smokeless and my best, most accurate load has been 40 grs IMR 4198 pushing the 300 gr Barnes Original jacketed bullet. Average MV was 1775 and a 3 shot group was a shade over 2" at 50 yds. Jamison brass cases ejected easily and were very clean. I did try loads using 3031 and got dismal results going up to 45 grs. Sooted cases and lousy velocity.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:47 am

Shasta wrote:Here is a fine article written by our own KirkD:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/1876.pdf

SHASTA

Thanks, great article Kirk.

Thanks Mike

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:04 pm

Hobie wrote:Yes, I have one. Time permitting I'll get to do some more shooting with it. Did carry it one season but didn't connect with it.

Lot of good info there Hobie thanks, the 50-95 looks pretty cool too and looks like the case is a Straight style.
Also i see that Chapparral doesn`t list the 28 in. barrel rife in that cal, wonder why.
Edit, went to Chapparrals web site and i see they have the 28 inch rife in 50-95.
Any thoughts about that caliber?

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:38 pm

Have a Chaparral in 45-75 and it is a hoot!!! Love it!!! Found it very sensitive to load for though. I never put smokeless thru it, only pyrodex RS and 777. Actually got mediocre accuracy (4-5" at 100 yards) until I used a LDPE wad between the bullet (Lyman 457122) and the powder. Did a lot of alloy playing around too (pure lead, 20:1 lead/tin, WW, straight linotype, 90% lino, etc.). My standard load now is a 60% linotype, 40% lead bullet, 777 powder, and a LDPE wad. this load chronos at 1460 from the muzzle and averages 2.5" at 100 yards (tang sight, bench, 3 shots). I do have a load that averages 1.9" at 100 but it uses 100% linotype and pyrodex RS. My linotype is limited and IF I ever hunt with this I have been informed that straight linotype is too brittle for hunting, plus this average is with only 3 groups so really I dont know if it is better or not than my 60/40 load. As far as the gun goes, I have the 28" barrel and am thinking of cutting it back to 26"...it is just too long and heavy of a gun. That 2" wont do much for weight but it will make a difference in the length. I could not find any length other than 28 when i bought mine. Really I should have waited, the prices plummeted after I got mine (of course).
Guess I should add, I started using reformed 348 winchester cases and had zero issues with them other than it being a PITA to make the cases. Then jamison came to the rescue and I bought 100 of theirs. However, I started getting misfires. I think the rim is thinner on thse cases but I am not sure. I wound up backing off my sizing die to headspace the jamison cases on the shoulder instead of on the rim. Since then I have probably put 500-600 rounds thru these cases without a misfire and with flawless feeding.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:45 pm

Thanks for that info coyote nose.

Call me dumb but what`s the difference between the 50-90 and the 50-95, there seems to be more 50-90 brass available.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:06 pm

Dang Pitchy....You and me both. In 40 years I have never been able to snag a '76 in the condition, caliber, and the price to go with it. (50-75%, 45-60, and highway robbery for a price.) The '76 is the only model I've never owned.

The many I've seen are either pristine ones or loose junk. I learned long ago not to fool with loose junk-------Me

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:58 pm

I shot an original about 15 or 20 years ago. A friend had it and was loading black and mild smokeless loads for it. It was a round barrel 45-75 that had been cut back to 22" I believe. He sold it to another friend of mine, I think the price was about $500-$600. We got under 2" groups at 100 yards with it using black loads. Was a lot of fun to shoot.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:59 pm

It will have to be one of those just happened deal at the right time, but generally when one gets something in their noggin ya know what happens.

Malamute, i figured you`d have one hangin in that cabin of yours.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:09 pm

Well, I do own part of one. It was found buried in the ground. The tangs are broken off, I just have the barrel and action. I think it may have been nickel plated, since the metal has mostly greyed out with not too much pitting. Been thinking about having it rebuilt, it was a 40 cal, so would probably clean up to a 45-60. That's way out of my budget, so it will just be a wall hanger for a while longer. An old friend gave it to me.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:12 pm

Here we go, makes sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnsNIhJCAWY

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:27 pm

Those prices from CDNN right now on the Chaparral clones just make me want to cry (compared to what I paid for mine).

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:34 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:Those prices from CDNN right now on the Chaparral clones just make me want to cry (compared to what I paid for mine).

I am in the same boat as you. I believe we got ours around the same time. But just think....we can consider ourselves the pioneers in this field now! Heck, when I got mine I HAD to reform 348 brass, Jamison didnt make any until i owned mine for 2 years.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:45 am

Mine was the very first SRC I knew of.... Yes, I paid the price of the early adopter!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:01 am

Are you guys with the rifles from CDNN happy with the fit and finish ?

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:31 pm

Got one on the way from CDNN, a 45-60

BigMuddy · Post by **BigMuddy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:21 pm

Pitchy wrote:Got one on the way from CDNN, a 45-60

I think you will be happy with that one! I have a "Chap" and an original, both in 45-60. The are MUCH easier to get components and to load for. They did normally use a 300 grain bullet, but in my Chap I used a 410gr bullet and 50gr. of black to take a bison a few years back. Like some others, I get sick if I think about what I paid for mine compared to what they sell for now.

I have used some mild smokeless loads in the original too. It shoots very well. Only game it has taken was a skunk....and it was enough gun for that one.

The only smokeless powder I have used in both guns is Accurate 5744.

Good luck!

Dan

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:32 pm

Thanks Dan, very cool.

Here`s how i cut some 45-70 cases too .188, only insert the nose of the guide half way into the case and it will support it so ya can cut it off with a pipe cutter. Cut just a hair long then trip to proper lenght.
Loaded a dummy round at 2.25 overall to run through the action when i pick up the rifle to see that it functions proper.
I`m going to turn down the rim to .062 in the lath on the dummy also.
I also cut another case too 2.25 but left the rim at .65 to see if that chambers.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:07 pm

Pitchy wrote:Got one on the way from CDNN, a 45-60

Good for you, Pitchy. Can't wait to see some pics and a range report. That's right up your alley. I too was enamored with the '76 and I would of picked up the 45-60 as well. But I ended up getting the '73 and haven't spent enough time with it to justify getting another one yet. Yet.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:35 pm

Pitchy, congratulations on your '76 order. I think you'll really have some fun with it. I hunted with an original '76 this past fall. I didn't mind hauling it around the bush at all. It is long and it is 10 pounds, but I didn't even notice. Here's a photo of my old '76 ...

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:27 pm

Thanks guys, nice rifle Kirk.

Now i gotta figure out a load, all i have for molds are a 405 RN and a 405 Fn that weighs out at 395 with my mix.
The round nose is too long and would have to be seated to deep, haven`t tried the flat nose yet. They might be to heavy anyway so might have to round up some 300 grainers unless someone knows something i don`t.
My favorite powder is 3031 so if anyone has some loads using that i`d appreciate that info.
The guy that ordered the gun ordered two so i get my pick so hopefully i end up with a nice one.
Can`t wait to get it.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:48 pm

Neither the 45-60 or the 45-75 were made to shoot heavy bullets. The 45-70 is a whole different animal and was made in 1886 and Sharps variations, which are stronger and longer actions than the 1876. The 45-60 is best suited with a 300 grain bullet, the 45-75 will handle a 325 grain, but neither was designed for the 405.

The 45-75 can be loaded with formed brass from 348 Winchester, I got some from a guy that did just that and made mine that way. The gun shoots real well once you have gotten the loaded cartridge so that it will chamber in the gun with all the right dimensions. The 45-60 is much easier to load for and get shooting. Both are fun and both will kill game, but they are not the equivalent to a 45-70.

I have hunted and killed big and small game with both. My son even shot a bear in Alaska with my 45-75, both rifles are original...

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:59 am

I fully understand it`s not a 45-70, was just saying what i have available because that`s what i shoot the most.
I`ll round up some 300`s somewhere, and i see the fellers over on Cas. are quite helpful with loads for one.
Thanks and great pictures of fine guns.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:05 am

Dang Pitchy, I just sold a hundred rounds of new brass and the dies for 45-60. If I'd known you were gonna buy one I'd of saved 'em for you.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:59 am

M. M. Wright wrote:Dang Pitchy, I just sold a hundred rounds of new brass and the dies for 45-60. If I'd known you were gonna buy one I'd of saved 'em for you.

That`s me, day late and a dollar short.

Thanks anyway bro.

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:33 am

here is mine in 50/95. again it is a differently shaped cartridge than the 50/90:

this one has really nice sights as well.
never taken it hunting yet, but hope to one of these days.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:41 am

Very nice indeed.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:22 am

I use Lyman 45-60 dies. They didn't cost much and work perfectly fine for me. My favourite load is a 327 gas check bullet over 25 grains of 5744 for 1,320 fps. I use custom made 45-60 brass from Rocky Mountain Cartridges, but I've also made brass from 45-70 brass, thinning the rims from the front face and shortening the case. They work just fine, but are more work, but are a lot cheaper.

Shasta · Post by **Shasta** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:49 am

Pitchy,

The 49th edition of the Lyman reloading handbook has a section on reloading the reproduction 1876's. One problem I was having with my Uberti-made .45-60 using smokeless powder loads was bullets sucking down into the case due to magazine spring pressure and recoil. I use the 292 grain Lyman 457191 supposedly designed for the .45-60, and the bullet is too long to feed through the lifter if crimped normally, so I was crimping over the front driving band. Reading the article in the Lyman manual, they confirmed this problem with the Lyman bullet and suggested trimming the case to 1.81" and crimping at the upper lube groove. This solution has worked very well for me.
The original .45-60 brass has a thinner rim than .45-70 brass. Many of the reproduction rifles including mine require this thinner rim, and I followed the instructions in KirkD's above mentioned article to thin my rims by a few thousandths. Not all reproduction rifles require this thinning. A friend has a Cimarron 1876 in .45-60 that chambers the trimmed .45-70 brass just fine without thining the rim.
As for reloading dies, I use a standard set of RCBS .45-70 dies modified by removing a quarter inch or so off the bottom of the seating-crimping die body to allow crimping the shorter case. Most accurate loads in my rifle use either 24 grains IMR 4198 or 30 grains Reloader 7 powder along with a half square of single ply toilet paper filler to hold the powder back against the primer. Cases are modified Starline .45-70.

If you would like to try the Lyman 457191 bullet, shoot me a PM with your mailing address and I will be happy to send some to you.

SHASTA

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:00 am

Thanks gents, good info

I chucked the case in the lath and took a couple thousands off the back side of the rim, simple and quick.
Shasta that would be great, pm sent.

Also i mentioned they had loading info on the Cas board that i just found yesterday but i only hang out here so thanks for your help here.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:32 am

Found these powders out in the shed, check out the old can of 43-50

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:21 pm

Sixgun wrote:Dang Pitchy....You and me both. In 40 years I have never been able to snag a '76 in the condition, caliber, and the price to go with it. (50-75%, 45-60, and highway robbery for a price.) The '76 is the only model I've never owned.

The many I've seen are either pristine ones or loose junk. I learned long ago not to fool with loose junk-------Me

Here is a current ad from Gunsamerica on a nice early second model 1876, 45-60, with thumbprint dustcover, single set trigger.

You won't find any nicer in this price range...

WINCHESTER 1876 ANTIQUE 45/60 CALItem Number: 918212342
Listed in category: Winchester Rifles - Pre-1899 Lever

Click image for larger gallery
1 of 5

[+] Enlarge Images

Item condition: Used - See Item Description.
Item number: 918212342
Item caliber: .45-60
Seller stock #: ANTIQUE
Item location: NY

Classified Ad

Price: $2,650.00

Shipping: 40.00
Payment options:
Return policy: 3 Days

Price: $2,650.00

Seller Details

Name: Safari Outfitters Ltd
Seller since: Jan. 2003

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:11 pm

Shrapnel, Gunsamerica sends me a wish list everyday and I saw that one. Wish I didn't have the pans in the fire I do right now or I'd be looking to buy it. But, as I stated I have guns now that I need to give some attention to and don't seem to find the time.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:14 pm

kimwcook wrote:Shrapnel, Gunsamerica sends me a wish list everyday and I saw that one. Wish I didn't have the pans in the fire I do right now or I'd be looking to buy it. But, as I stated I have guns now that I need to give some attention to and don't seem to find the time.

And a guy sure wouldn`t want to sell his horse and rig and then have to carry a 76

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:36 pm

I'm late to the party, but wanted to congratulate you on your new 76. 45-60 is my favorite caliber in this rifle. I have both an original Winchester 1876 and the Uberti 76. My favorite go to powder for the Uberti 76 is 5744 - BP only in the original, of course.

I see you have found the 76 Forum over on CAS City. Lots of information there, and on Hobie's blog, specific to this model.

Shrapnel · Post by **Shrapnel** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:52 pm

kimwcook wrote:Shrapnel, Gunsamerica sends me a wish list everyday and I saw that one. Wish I didn't have the pans in the fire I do right now or I'd be looking to buy it. But, as I stated I have guns now that I need to give some attention to and don't seem to find the time.

That is how I got the notice, myself. I called on it, and it lettered with a 30 inch barrel, but it is cut to 24 inches, or I would have bought it...

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:43 am

Grizzly Adams wrote:I'm late to the party, but wanted to congratulate you on your new 76. 45-60 is my favorite caliber in this rifle. I have both an original Winchester 1876 and the Uberti 76. My favorite go to powder for the Uberti 76 is 5744 - BP only in the original, of course.

I see you have found the 76 Forum over on CAS City. Lots of information there, and on Hobie's blog, specific to this model.

Thanks i will check it out further, at one point or another in this life we all will ask someone for help with something we are not familiar with which is the beauty of a well balanced society. Pitchy

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:33 am

As not to take this topic about loads over to cas and away from here i`d like to continue the discussion about different loads. I see over there some are using the 405 grain bullet with no problems.
My Lee 405 grain flat nose mold drops bullets at 392 grains using wheel weights and a little lynotype.
I may try this bullet starting with a charge of 32.0 grains of 3031 which should be mild.
If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions please chime in.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:22 am

Shrapnel wrote:... it lettered with a 30 inch barrel, but it is cut to 24 inches, or I would have bought it...

That explains the low price. When I saw the price for a '76 like that, I just about passed out. That was just too good to be true. Thanks for that update. I'll sleep better tonight not having to be tempted so badly.