Getting old and the black dog...

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:37 am

Boy did Joe Miller's post put me to thinking. Joe, you sure do seem depressed. Can't say as I blame you, stuck in Illinois, can't shoot, sick with this and that AND getting older. But lots of us are going through the same or similar and some much worse. Booger Bill has lost his nose and I seem to remember somebody who had a limb amputated and those are pretty bad. Folks have lost their wives, kids, parents and dogs and sometimes saying which is worse is a near thing. So, I was thinking...

Seems I'm getting older, too. Not as strong, can't hear as well, getting cataracts, dog is getting older, wife has diabetes and won't take care of herself as she knows she ought to and the list goes on. Wife says I'm a "grump" aka curmudgeon. Says I never smile. I know that isn't true. I can feel myself smiling every time I hear the birds sing in the back yard (I put out some food for them and we've plenty of bird houses in which they raise brood after brood). I smile too, I know I am, every time I see my grandkids doing something neat, or when my youngest daughter makes pork ribs "just for Dad". Still, the wife says she "never" sees me smile. So what's up with this depression thing? Is it a part of getting older? Am I depressed? Are we ALL depressed?

I don't want to talk about this any more, its depressing...

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:56 am

This isnt clinical but depression is feeling bad for yourself and talking yourself into accepting that you cannot do anything about it. Nonsense! You can go do something you are good at and share it with strangers, share it with friends or share it via internet. Go to the library and invite a total stranger to play checkers, whatever. Load up some ammo and shoot a nice group offhand and post it here for everyone to see. Next, learn something new. Anything. Sign up for a cooking class. Ask your friend to show you his stamp collection. See a show or jump out of an airplane (well not you Hobie). For free - walk the dog in a popular area where you can strum up a conversation with others. Now if you really want to understand that you arent that bad off, volunteer to assist at a tornado disaster, soup kitchen, red cross mission or the local hospital. Lastly, project your focus on someone else. In other words, as long as the kids are happy I can smile and being here for them makes me stay as healthy as I can, learn new things and try new challenges. You had it right Hobie - many people are not given the chance as they are taken from this earth early and tragically. Others suffer here with debilitating diseases and injuries. You're right, talking about depression is depressing. Personally, I don't have time to be depressed. I have a to-do list, a bucket list and extra list to complete. Some of the things on that list have nothing to do with me, they are for someone elses benefit.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:08 am

You kind opened the door Hobie.

Everyone struggles with getting long in years.

One's point of view is the most important thing I know of for negotiating this path.

We for whom Almighty God is our Father, rather than our Judge,
have the assurance of eternal life in His presence.

The verse says "for our citizenship is in heaven, from whence the Lord comes".

That being the case, there is no worldly suffering "that can separate us from
the Love of God in Christ Jesus."

I understand this is preachy to the choir, but this POV is what got all those who've gone before us thru what we are going through.

I am just like everyone else, I battle the same things, temptations really to take our eyes off of the prize "of the high calling in Christ".

This doesn't displace the pain and discomfort, but it does put that into its proper perspective.

And the prescriptive and redemptive recipe is this: the more I feed my spirit, the one God created within me, the better able I am to cope with and withstand the vicissitudes of the here and now.

And the practical application: I try to listen to this guy weekday mornings. I open my heart and my hearing
to God's Word. It's all of 20 minutes. And it makes a palpable, visceral difference in my day.

http://www.truthforlife.org

I trust that if anyone tries this with an open heart and mind they will be
equally helped. It brings the eternal dimension to the present in
a useful, comforting way. The "'nother comforter" Jesus promised.

I hope this helps others as it has helped me.

Blessings
Grizz

P.S. I didn't see Joe's post. But I too have too much to do and have the same lists and I work on them. Busy hands.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:28 am

I think 86er hit the nail square on the head. I've had occasional bouts with depression as I imagine most people have. Dealing with pain, worrying about work, stress of life; these and many more. But when I focus on the countless blessings God has given me - wildly more than I ever deserve, I realize I have no right to complain. Others are so less fortunate. The keeping busy factor is a big help. There are simply not enough hours in the day. I was chuckling to myself just yesterday doing a questionnaire at work that stated my personality was one that I liked doing one project at a time, and seeing it through towards completion. I wish! I usually have a dozen in progress at any given time. Keeping busy keeps one's mind and body active - and that keeps your spirits up.

Some depression is body chemistry-related. I can recognize now when I get in a funk that it is something that will pass, as it always does. Go shooting, clean a gun, reload, build a model, start a woodworking project. Volunteer. Read. Vote. Anything and everything. All good advice!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:40 am

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/nia ... d=16577963

here's one to take one's mind off of one's self:

that's right up there with Secretariat by 31...

Grizz

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:31 pm

Dad-gummit, and to think I ALMOST drove thru Springfield yesterday to drop in on ya! If I'd had one more day on this load I woulda! I dunno, that mighta depressed ya more. Especially after I tole ya how much you and Blaine look alike. Joe, we ALL have regrets, issues with jobs, health, finances and love-lifes, (exceptin' OS of course).

Wanna REALLY get depressed? Write "the Great American Novel", send it off too some publishers. 12 years and a million miles went into that one. I'm still drivin' a truck... so I'm guessin' it wasn't the great American novel; or those NY nincompoops wouldn't know one if they got hit upside the head with one! My wife won't even open the letters anymore. Maybe the next one one will be better received, it ain't a western, except in that its about a political murder (or accident, can't let the plot get too well known), set in Los Angeles. (Outline still distresses me on that one, ain't sure HOW I want it to go. Or maybe the one that's percolatin' in the back of my head about a depressed former cop/horseshoer/truck driver/writer. It strikes a little too close for comfort!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:40 pm

Hobie,
You are right sorta, but we do not use the "D" word. Too many govt spies watching these forums.
One of these days perhaps I could come for a visit and we could go do something together. Who cares if we smile or not we'd have fun. Yeah, and I owe Pitchy a visit, and Blaine, and Malamute, and a lot of other guys I've talked to over the years. If I ever make it out of IL it will be a one way trip somewhere ( not AZ anymore ) west of here.
I wish I had a big black dog to play with, or a brown one, or a mutt. I haven't had a dog since I left AZ.
I don't wanna talk about it any more either.

86'er,
Why do think I quit shooting? There is no place for me to shoot within a reasonable drive that I can afford. Unlike some on this forum I do not own my own land and I'm not financially sound. I simply cannot afford to drive 200 miles to a good rifle suitable range and pay the fees as well.
And $10.00 per hour to shoot at an indoor range and come home with sinus trouble due to the junk in the air is insane, that's why I don't do that anymore. Geeze I can poison myself a lot easier by sucking down a 6 pack of Coca Cola a day along with burgers and fries.

OK, that said you mentioned learning something new. I am. I'm teaching myself to fix sewing machines. It's fun to a point, therapeutic to a point, and I'm learning to sew as well. Not to mention it's not as noisy as shooting and I don't have the government interfering with me at every twist and turn.
AND, if things work out I might be able to earn some money when I've learned enough to work on other peoples machines.

About religious talk. I am a Christian, but not one to really appreciate all this talk about how God will take care of us and all that.
I was born with a realist mind set, not a faith mindset. If I step on a nice shiny 10 penny nail I'll hobble over and scream and cus and whine as I try to remove the nail. I won't be praising the Lord because he gave me a nice shiny new nail!
Then I'll gripe and complain as I sit in the ER getting a tetanus shot and treatment. I won't be giving thanks cos the Dr used a new needle.

It's just the way I am. I used to worry because some of the Christians I know can brush off nearly everything life throws at them with some comments about how God won't give you more than you can handle ..... bull shiq. Yes he will and yes he does.
I don't worry about it any more. I got too much other things to worry about.
Like how my wife and I are going to share the last bottle of Coke in the fridge and .... this is the important part .... is it cold enough.

Griff,
A visit from a friend would have been very welcome. Not depressing.
If you want to send me a draft of the novel I'd be glad to read it. Sounds interesting.

Joe

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:45 pm

Ummmm, funny to me that I wrote one thing and many took something else from it. That's got to be what my wife is doing, me smiling with a big ole grin like 86er, listening to birds and hugging the grandkids and her seeing something else. I don't ever feel depressed...

crs · Post by **crs** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:59 pm

A visit to Hooters always lifts my spirits.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:17 pm

crs wrote:A visit to Hooters always lifts my spirits.

Is that what we call it now?

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:30 pm

Hobie wrote:
crs wrote:A visit to Hooters always lifts my spirits.
Is that what we call it now?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:13 pm

My wife won't let me go to Hooter's. Says she wouldn't want me getting any strange ideas.

Joe

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:16 pm

Joe----whats with the government spy "D" word deal???? That response from you worries me a tad???????????

Look, it is like this .
First,let me say this is only how I feel/my opinion when reading your posts/I am no expert/doctor/nothing.
Just one mans opinion of another mans current living conditions of how he is treating himself,but you can help yourself/there is hope.

A man and who he surrounds himself with has some part of his success/failure.
I mean if a man is married to a women that is a loser----cheater/drunk/druger/excessive gambler/compulsive spender etc.this will in part bring a man down.I am not talking about a loving wife being sick etc. I do not consider your poor wife any of the above.

But, that is just one type of a way in which a man maybe cannot cope without spiraling downhill.
What you are doing right now(is not even correctly coping to solve your problems)take for instance the Hoarder's TV show.

Example------------------
There is this woman(she is 350lbs)sitting in rat sh## eating 5 day old pizza saying she has 15 different illnesses.(holding a shopping bag full of meds drinking 2 liter coke bottles.
Dude, Only that broad has a remote chance(of helping herself)if she gets straight mentally.(its all mental)that is where everything starts.
You said in your post-----you guys worry about the last Coke(cold Coke)you should not even be drinking Coke dude.

You said--you can't shoot(Are you telling me there is not one person you can't explore/befriend that lives outside city limits that maybe you can shoot????
If not is there a basement somewhere you can go and setup a indoor trap.(heck shoot .22's etc.)

Joe, listen to me(I am telling you straight up/as truthfully as any man can tell another man)but it is only my non-professional opinion.
You have this mental hang up about the (I CAN"T)(do you hate yourself Joe ???)if so why????(really WHY)

Listen-------People do not respect people that every 5 seconds say(I can't)(my health)and(no money)and(can't move)and(can't work)and(can't shoot)and cant/cant/cant------dude,someone not involved with you saying I am sorry---only goes so far.
If you are physically disabled and cannot work-----why are you not on some type of disability?????????

My opinion is you need some positive mental help therapy(JMHO)you need this to have this move onto physical help(you helping you)Not us saying we feel sorry for you.(us just always saying that is just being enablers)it won't help.

If/when you truly want to get right/get yourself together/helping yourself/helping your wife-------YOU NEED TO GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!

You and I know-------the way you are now from your posts at least how I take them------DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU WILL MOVE/YOU AINT WORKING/WHY???/ ARE YOU SITTING ON THE COUCH EATING TOO MUCH/DRINKING SODA AND TELLING US TO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.(Joe,I don't anymore)it sickens me dude.(that bike episode was all I could stomach)

JMHO----Go on a diet/get straight mentally(with professional help if need be)and do something with you life while you still have a viable life.

You can do it----if you try(it is not too late)but ONLY YOU CAN GET OFF YOUR A## AND DO IT.

THE HAND HOLDING is done "for at least me".(if you feel you hate me for this)that's cool de-friend me.(maybe that is better if you are not going to help yourself anyway)
Cause the only time I am depressed is reading how you talk about how you are living in Illinois--------(not helping yourself)

JMHO------Take it that way(only my little rationale of your situation and how you have put yourself in to some degree ????)and hope you can clean up your life

Again JHMO

You can change for the better and improve your life(if you try) I hope you do and it works out!

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:57 pm

Kind of interesting that as I'm reading this thread I'm watching The Shawshank Redemption on AMC. I mention that because there is one of the best lines in this move, pertaining to this topic, that I've ever heard: "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

Let's just rule out the second option completely and get that out of the way.

Joe, you're not too different from alot of guys here. We've all experienced losing jobs, maybe currently unemployed or underemployed, and we come back. We HAVE to. There isn't another choice. You've got to look at it that way.

We've all lost people whose passing was so painful to us that we wondered if we could go on. But we do. We have to.

Earlier today I wrote something for this thread but hit my back button instead of preview. Ooops. But here's the gist of it:

When things just seem like the whole deal is in the toilet it helps to just do one thing, just one thing, that will improve one aspect of your life/situation. I'll give you a personal example.

Back about 3 months ago I had some trouble with my eyes. Most folks could just go see a doctor, but I have no job now, no insurance, and no money. There is a place here which is a non-profit that helps folks if you're in that boat. So I went. When the nurse was taking my vital signs her eyes bugged right out when she got to the blood pressure reading. She disappeared and came back with one of the doctors who works in-house. The doctor had a pill and a little cup of water. She said, "take this, and I'll be back in just a couple minutes." I took the pill and the nurse then told me that my blood pressure had been 208/120 and that I was at "imminent risk of a heart attack or a stroke." Holy Cow !

I took the advice and the prescription that was given to me very seriously. I also got a chance to ask the doctor what she thought was the cause of numbers that high. Explained to her that I used to be super fit, and much more active, but I'd been in a funk since losing my folks one after the other, and then the icing on the cake for me was getting shown the door at the school where I taught because the diversity police run the show there now, and after 8 years I was out. I knew that I'd been carrying around a lot of resentment and anger, but I had no idea how this was really affecting me. So, not effectively dealing with the stuff that has happened over the last two years, and getting out of shape, and getting angry every time I read or saw on tv what new insanity o'bummer is subjecting the country to ... well, all of this was contributing to my heading for a massive heart attack or stroke. THAT got my attention in a big way.

I've taken to doing those things I CAN do to get things on a better track. I've got a bad knee, but I get out every day, or at worst, every other day and walk hard for 30 to 40 minutes so that my heartrate gets up and I'm sweating. Started pushing around a few of the weights I've got in my place. Second visit to the doctor's was on May 8 and I'd lost just under 5 pounds (down to 219) and the blood pressure was down to 158/90. Still far from great, but way better than it had been. Third visit was just this last week on June 12th. I thought this was interesting, because it's the 24th anniversary of when I quit drinking. Well, I've had ups and downs since I made that decision, but always just plugged along. Anyway, this recent visit I got much better news: weight down to 214 and BP down to 112/78. Doctor even says that if I can continue to lose weight and get myself in better shape that there is every chance that I can bid the BP medicine farewell. I'm 6'0" and when I was working out alot about 5 years ago I was in great shape right at 195 - 200 pounds. I'm using this little wake up call to get my life back on track. I'm not a little kid either. I'm 58 now. But I also know that the job market is not as prejudiced against "older guys" than you might think. Much of this is due to the fact that younger people are not only much less experienced in many areas, they are also poorly educated compared to us older guys. This counts. I've seen a few guys lately find work, who'd begun to wonder if they might ever find work again. But it's got to start from inside ourselves. A little bonus for me is, my doctor was right. She thought that the eye irritation which first brought me to her was very likely to be associated with the super high blood pressure. I think she was right, as the eyes are feeling much better.

The moral of the little story is that sometimes we need to be kicked in the butt to get ourselves pointed back in the right direction. I realize since I've been on this BP medicine for a few months that I feel much less "ready to explode" at things that used to really anger me. It's not like I've become some flower waving hippy child, cause I'm not. O'bummer still ticks me off almost daily, and rude and inconsiderate people still bother me. But I think I'm doing better with it all, and I'm getting my head back into the job searches in earnest again. Half hearted doesn't cut it, and I know that. But I think I was getting in my own way more than anybody else was.

Try doing something, just one thing, each day that you believe in your heart will really improve just one facet of your life, or one of the situations that's bumming you out. Then build on that a little at a time. If nothing else, you'll be rebuilding the mental habits that characterized most of us when we were younger, and being "down" was much more rare. Give it a try. What do you have to lose ? - DixieBoy

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:13 am

"Get busy living, or get busy dying."

I think of that quote quite often - I'd just forgotten where it came from.

-Stretch

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:59 am

Boy, isn't this forum peachy keen? Come here with frustrations and needing to vent some steam and get your butt chewed out.

All I can say is, I don't have couch to sit on.
I have a good wife, learned more from her than I can ever tell. And I don't have a dog.

Illinois is an unfriendly place to live if you are a shooter.
In the years I've lived here I've had invites from two other shooters who lived too far from me to be able to drive to. Gas costs money here, and I don't have enough.
I know there are several other members from several other forums as well as this one in the central IL area. I've tried to make connections with them on many occasions only to be ignored. So to hell with them.

You chew me out but you don't know me other than from the forum. So I have to just skim over the novels and go on to the next one.

I am not sitting in a house full of pelosi drinking my soda and holding a bag full of dope. And what ailments I do have are diagnosed by doctor types, not my imagination.

So, I'm gonna go work on some sewing machines. At least when I get them fixed they are useful. More than I can say for other things I own.

toodles

joe

harry · Post by **harry** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:24 am

J Miller wrote:Boy, isn't this forum peachy keen? Come here with frustrations and needing to vent some steam and get your butt chewed out.

All I can say is, I don't have couch to sit on.
I have a good wife, learned more from her than I can ever tell. And I don't have a dog.

Illinois is an unfriendly place to live if you are a shooter.
In the years I've lived here I've had invites from two other shooters who lived too far from me to be able to drive to. Gas costs money here, and I don't have enough.
I know there are several other members from several other forums as well as this one in the central IL area. I've tried to make connections with them on many occasions only to be ignored. So to hell with them.

You chew me out but you don't know me other than from the forum. So I have to just skim over the novels and go on to the next one.
I am not sitting in a house full of pelosi drinking my soda and holding a bag full of dope. And what ailments I do have are diagnosed by doctor types, not my imagination.

So, I'm gonna go work on some sewing machines. At least when I get them fixed they are useful. More than I can say for other things I own.

toodles

joe

Well Joe I'd say maybe you shouldn't skim over the posts that may have some insight. Anyway 12000+ posts and you have told us quite a bit about your life, yes we know more about you than most. If my horse had half as mush as wrong with him as you do he would be down at the soap factory

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:49 am

Awww come on now Joe. You had one guy, madman, chew your butt a little and that's just 'cause he's half doberman.

I know him a little bit and I can say without hesitation that he's a good and decent guy. EVERYBODY who took the time to reply to you gives a hoot enough about YOU to have taken the time to offer suggestions that they hoped would be of help. It's that simple.

I'm gonna offer up a couple more, as someone who has learned some things from you, and doesn't want to see a good guy going down. Please take these in that spirit.

Nobody likes whining. Take a look at alot of your posts over the last year or more. See a trend ?

Whining is really a turn off. It will turn off even your friends. They'll want less and less to do with you if that's all they ever hear from you. That's just human nature, and it's a fact.

What will insprie your friends, and yes you stubborn old goat, you do have friends, is to see you putting your noggin to work on overcoming some of the stuff that gets you down. That's also human nature, and it's a fact too.

The guys who took the time to offer help in the way of suggestions were trying to help you. Maybe you want to do more than just "skim" those suggestions Joe. I really do hope that you are of a mind to improve your situation. You'll always have help from good people when that's the case. If you're not really interested in improving your situation, then it's a safe bet that you'll see all of your friends, one by one, disappear. Call me stupid, but I see only one desirable choice here. - DixieBoy

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:19 am

Getting older ain't as much fun as "they" said it would be. The "golden year".... ha! But I am determined I am gonna kick and scream until they plant me.

I turned 66 in April. I haven't seen a gun in a year and a half -except for the AK's and the chi-com nine em em's the cops here carry. I haven't shot one in that long. Those of you who know me and know what my life was like in AZ and MO understand the HUGE change that is.

Yes .. I miss it at times. I have amused myself by making a blowgun and shooting lizards. Ain't the same thing but heck, you do what you can.

I find happiness is bringing a little joy and whatever else I can to the lives of those who have so much less than most people can imagine.

Yesterday we were downtown. As Twyla bargained for veggies with the street vendors I saw a little girl with a black plastic sack on her head as she dug through the trash looking for something to eat. She would open trash bags, did through them and eat what ever she could find.

When she got off the dumpster and came past me I stopped her and gave her a little something to eat. When I stopped her I could see fear in her eyes. I handed it to her and it took her a minute to realize it was a gift. You shoulda seen her face light up! That was worth not shooting for at least a year.

We get lots of those. It makes it worth the trip. She is in the photo below in the yellow and white shirt ....

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:50 am

best thing to do is keep active....
always doing something....from shooting, reloading, to yard work
{which remainds me...I need to cut the grass after this..

..}
to watching a great ole movie on tv... or dvd....,one of my favorite things to do!
to playing with the dog...to read the posts here or a hunting mag...playing cards...
walk or drive in the woods....atv ride....etc....

I never get depressed...I may get bored, or LAZY or pee'od that I cant do somethings
because I am a little too old and fat or too few $$$...
but never depressed......I think that word gets tossed around too much....

Time to cut the grass!

I love riding my tractor!...its got a cup holder too!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:42 pm

Hobie wrote:
crs wrote:A visit to Hooters always lifts my spirits.
Is that what we call it now?

With diabetes, my spirit don't work that good anymore....I've tried hooters. Good chicken wings.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:14 pm

Hooters is good for cold beer, sports on TV and a touch of eye-candy sometimes. But... I think Jim has the best of it... the heartfelt gratitude of someone that values something to eat. Jim, you're a stronger, better man than anyone I know. Richer by far, than most of us here. (And I don't mean in worldly things!)

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:04 pm

Well thanks Griff but I ain't stronger or better than anyone else. We spend any time together you will find that out quick enough. But I am blessed. I have learned more from the poor about things that count than I ever did in schools or seminars.

OJ · Post by OJ » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:27 pm

Without loading you with any details, I graduated from med school in 1952 - and, it's been my experience - personal and with my patients - that yellow stuff referred to in the "golden years" contains more rust than gold.

That said, on Wednesday I'll be at a memorial service for a very close friend and patient I got through the system that wasn't helping her to get her the treatment that cured her cancer some years ago - she was born more than 30 years after I was - but lost her life in a tragic accident last week.

Well, we were never promised life would be fair.

deafrn · Post by **deafrn** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:48 pm

OJ wrote:Without loading you with any details, I graduated from med school in 1952 - and, it's been my experience - personal and with my patients - that yellow stuff referred to in the "golden years" contains more rust than gold.

My mother is 80 years old now, and a few years back she told me, "Anyone who tells you that these are the golden years is full of (a word mom seldom uses)!"

When we relocated here almost 20 years ago, I lost close contact with my (then) remaining shooting buddies, lost the ability to hunt and hike on familiar property, and generally ended up thinking about the outdoors more than actually experiencing them. As much as it goes against the grain of my personality, I've been slowly training myself not to give a rat's butt about a lot of things... and by golly, it has paid off because I'm already seeing that the "gold" was mostly cheap plating, and pathetically thin in a lot of spots.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:24 am

I finally got a little extra money, and got old about the same time....I'll be blasted if I'm going to let any grass grow under my feet. I don't want to die with any money left in my pocket. If I work it right, at about the age of 85, my heart and funds will run out at the same time. I want to go in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming in terror like the others in his car.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:00 pm

Some quick thoughts on true clinical depression and what is appropriate to answer one's query... I have a very good friend who went through it for a while.

Yes, it can be brought about by certain drugs ("medications"), and enhanced by certain chemical and/or hormonal changes that frequently come with age. My friend had the ability to walk around, but could not work up the energy even to mow his lawn. That made him even feeling more guilty as he would watch from his house as friends did it for him. He just couldn't force himself to go outside.

He resorted to listening to classical music, resting, and trying to keep his mind on positive thoughts. He took some early vacation time. He avoided depressing or violent TV shows. His wife took care to provide healthy meals - no excess salt, sugar, etc. and light on fried foods or junk food. His depression passed.

He went back to work, where there was still a "source" in a very unfair boss; but after work he found ways to help the community to restore his feeling of self worth; and I learned that this helped him tremendously.

He DIDN'T need browbeating, or somebody telling him to get off his lazy bum and do something, or condescending remarks and sarcasm - which I have seen a place or two on this forum in answer to a post or two from a depressed forum member.

Use some common sense, guys. If you have some constructive criticism, send a PM - don't take away a man's dignity by flaming him. You make the matter worse, and you lose my respect, as well as others - no matter how you may think you are "helping" with "a kick in the butt." It doesn't work, and it doesn't elevate you in the eyes of others to kick someone when he's down. "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouths of fools pour out folly." - (Pro 15:1-2)

And by the way, the government DOES use Internet posts - even your local police agency - that stay on the web long after you have forgotten them. I cite this as a former law enforcement officer who was an acknowledged expert in "Computer Forensic Investigations" and a teacher to law enforcement throughout the state.

There have in fact been attempts to pass laws that would allow authorities to take away your right to own any firearms, even for just target practice or hunting, if you have suffered from diagnosed depression.

Point in fact, a recent law that either my California Legislature or Congress was considering that would disarm any veteran who sought psychiatric help for PTSD. I don't have the cite now, but I sure remember it. I am willing to bet that somebody on this forum can supply that information. The "D" word can indeed be used against you, if certain overzealous politicos get their way.

Was my post a little stern? It was meant to be.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:39 pm

JimT's post (as is often the case) puts things in perspective for most of us...

However, some folks will be 'clinically depressed' (or whatever term you want to use), regardless of how bad the other guy has it, or how good their own situation is. Some of my most depressed patients are extremely wealthy, and some of my happiest are dirt-poor.

I will say that the newer crop of medications for depression is AWESOME...!!!!!! I see just as dramatic a turn-arounds of energy, mood, and productivity using antidepressants as I do with blood pressure or cholesterol or diabetes using medications for those conditions - antidepressants WORK. Sure, they are like shoes, some trial-and-error is involved to get the right one going, and the patient has to stick with it until they get the right fit. Some of the newer medications are easier to 'fit' more situations, and are so 'mild' that when I see a patient back six or eight weeks later, I ask them if they can tell any difference, and they usually say "no" - then their family member will pipe up "Oh, Yeah...!" In other words, they aren't typically making the patient feel like a zombie or whatever.

The word 'depression' is a bad one to describe what depression is, because it often is not involving any particular sadness or tears. More often it is just a feeling of being stuck in a 'rut' and unable to get out. Every option seems pointless, and so you can't move forward.

The meds don't solve any problems, but they make you see the path out more clearly - like dropping a map and compass to someone wandering lost in a jungle.

One other thing is anyone with fatigue, loss of interest in hobbies, or any other sort of depression symptoms should have a TSH and if male, a free/total testosterone level. If weight gain and fatigue are part of the picture, a fasting insulin/glucose ratio, both LDL-P/LDL-C and Triglyceride/HDL ratios, and if any of those are out of whack, a one AND two hour glucose tolerance test, to rule out other health conditions that can cause similar problems. The actual 'wholesale' cost of those tests would be under $100, although some insurances tell you you have to go to certain labs they have contracts with, that charge $1,400 for the same tests (probably actually sent to and run by the same reference lab), but give you a statement saying your insurance paid $900 so you 'only' owe $500. I assume that behind the scenes the lab really gets paid $200 instead of $100 in exchange for pretending the insurance "paid" $900 (which you know good and well they didn't do, since an ordinary doctor or other business could negotiate the prices down to $100 - you think Anthem can't do that even better???). It all seems so crooked to me, and I think if it were any 'unregulated' industry, people would be in jail over it, but in healthcare, the government steps in to 'control costs', so of course the end result is they go up exponentially.

Anyway, the labs are important but don't get ripped off...!

harry · Post by **harry** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:58 pm

JohndeFresno wrote:Some quick thoughts on true clinical depression and what is appropriate to answer one's query... I have a very good friend who went through it for a while.

Yes, it can be brought about by certain drugs ("medications"), and enhanced by certain chemical and/or hormonal changes that frequently come with age. My friend had the ability to walk around, but could not work up the energy even to mow his lawn. That made him even feeling more guilty as he would watch from his house as friends did it for him. He just couldn't force himself to go outside.

He resorted to listening to classical music, resting, and trying to keep his mind on positive thoughts. He took some early vacation time. He avoided depressing or violent TV shows. His wife took care to provide healthy meals - no excess salt, sugar, etc. and light on fried foods or junk food. His depression passed.

He went back to work, where there was still a "source" in a very unfair boss; but after work he found ways to help the community to restore his feeling of self worth; and I learned that this helped him tremendously.

He DIDN'T need browbeating, or somebody telling him to get off his lazy bum and do something, or condescending remarks and sarcasm - which I have seen a place or two on this forum in answer to a post or two from a depressed forum member.

Use some common sense, guys. If you have some constructive criticism, send a PM - don't take away a man's dignity by flaming him. You make the matter worse, and you lose my respect, as well as others - no matter how you may think you are "helping" with "a kick in the butt." It doesn't work, and it doesn't elevate you in the eyes of others to kick someone when he's down. "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouths of fools pour out folly." - (Pro 15:1-2)

And by the way, the government DOES use Internet posts - even your local police agency - that stay on the web long after you have forgotten them. I cite this as a former law enforcement officer who was an acknowledged expert in "Computer Forensic Investigations" and a teacher to law enforcement throughout the state.

There have in fact been attempts to pass laws that would allow authorities to take away your right to own any firearms, even for just target practice or hunting, if you have suffered from diagnosed depression.

Point in fact, a recent law that either my California Legislature or Congress was considering that would disarm any veteran who sought psychiatric help for PTSD. I don't have the cite now, but I sure remember it. I am willing to bet that somebody on this forum can supply that information. The "D" word can indeed be used against you, if certain overzealous politicos get their way.

Was my post a little stern? It was meant to be.

From Central California should have known, Yep make excuses cause we wouldn't want to accuse someone of it being their own fault that they are depressed.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:24 pm

...with all due respect, every dog has his day.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:59 pm

Well John I've learned my lesson.
I will never start another thread here unless it's firearm related. And I will only reply to threads that are firearm related.

Just too much bs otherwise.

Joe

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:16 pm

Well i don`t smile much either never did where ya could see my teeth and now that i`m not wearing any teeth i`m still not smiling much.
Life can be a real struggle and clinical depresson sucks and someone telling ya it can always be worse doesn`t help me feel any better.
A couple things from the Bible i try and remember are, don`t let the sun go down on your anger, get over it before ya hit the hay. We all get mad it`s normal.
The other thing is the promise that after this life if we believe in the Lord things will be better, far better.
I find if i try to put a smile on someone elses face it makes me feel better and usually does the trick.
Hang in there all those that are sad or suffering, keep the faith and think of the better times.
Keep posting anything about anything Joe we love ya.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:19 pm

JMHO

Don't agree with your post John(at least some of it)

You have your views, I have mine.
I stand by what I said. Absolutely no disrespect to that person.

In fact (I will wager that I have gone much farther than you have)trying to get a home setup/a decent paying job/a some moving expense money.

There comes a point though-------------------being an enabler(hurts)how long has this been going on????????????

After hearing way back that individual wanted OUT-----about anywhere but where he was----I went on a quest.
Found a home($32000 land contract)$1000 and a house payment of $134 a month and cheap taxes/utilites(heated with wood)would have helped him on that too.

Had a Job lined up pressure washing tanker trucks at a pretty darn good wage.

The move-----"If" that person would have truly been willing(to put up)I mean sell/dispose/whatever required to make the transition (move) that cost could have possibly been worked out(through a partial loan/and also some given)

At the end------------------(of all this)

Na, I don't want to move East now "after that person's inquiring about eastern US/central US/western US---------but---------

I knew right then------------------(don't consider him serious can't be that bad----------or ????????????????)

I speak direct,not to flame someone(in fact in the caring dept with people I am up there pretty good

So, exactly what have you done(on this issue)???? I mean putting up or shutting up deal ???

In fact,that person only has to pm me and I still will go to bat to help that person.(do all you people hear me)????
Anyone else---?????????????/

How bout you?????????? What ya willing to do besides type???
You live West-------------------Maybe your the hope??????

Other than smoothing over(typing on here)

The (if you got something to say,pm thing)you must not consider that for yourself ????

Now, if that was meant to be a slight dig---------- That was meant to be too.

But now that remark to Harry---(that does concern me,cause that could be taken wrong ??? maybe not????????)

JMHO

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:22 pm

Guys - this is still the best site of its kind by far. Sometimes folks mean to help and it comes out wrong. Sometimes we might get cranky. After the dust settles - we have a great group of contributors. "Life is like a box of chocolates - you never know what your going to get." It's all good.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:37 pm

Absolutely!

Sometimes my wording is blunt and maybe it is not very coothful, and my thoughts could also be expressed maybe a little better in the positive aspects---but nothing except best wishes for all of you guys.

Well said John

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:48 pm

Lots of different 'takes' on the issue, and different advice given. All of it well-intended, and I don't think any criticism of any depressed individual intended either.

For those who've never been so afflicted, depression is a horrible thing - probably the closest I can think of would be unending physical pain. Both can be treated and overcome, though. One problem is that people can recognize it if they hurt somewhere, and don't hesitate to admit it - with depression, often friends and relatives recognize it first, and so many people hesitate to admit it. (Why is it that we can admit our blood pressure is out of whack and seek medical care for that, but if our mood is out of whack we hesitate...????)

Anyone on this forum is a step ahead of some of the poor souls who don't have a 'forum' or even a family to bounce their ideas and feelings and rants off of. Sounds like some on the forum have gone an extra step from time to time, which is typical of this bunch - we may be cantankerous now and again, but pretty caring folks when you get right down to it.

As far as Joe - don't be offended by the comments here (many of them are 'general' ones, and have nothing to do with what you expressed). From the outsider's perspective, I do see lots of outstretched hands beckoning and offering to help pull you out of the rut you're in. Some are more of the 'tough-love' mindset, and others more 'nurturing', but all are ready and willing to help as best they can. In the end, though, you and your wife will have to be the ones to start the process. It's rough, but can be done - I've seen hundreds if not thousands of patients deal with similar situations - the details change, but the overall story is usually similar. We're rootin' for you, and anyone else on this forum who finds themselves stuck in one of life's many ruts.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:06 pm

Grizz, I have to agree with you 1+

Yes, it's no fun getting old. Can't work as long or as hard as I once could; The body slowly deteriorates, etc. While my body is older, my mind is still young. Mentally, I still feel 21 but with a WHOLE lot more wisdom

However, for those who believe in what Jesus preached about [The Kingdom of God is at hand] I know someday that I will be with him in the earthly paradise that God promises everyone who believes. I also believe that God doesn't give us more then we can handle. Granted, for some people it is MUCH more than others, but Jesus never said life would be all roses and no thorns. Look at the woman Jim T pointed out in his posting. She looks in the dumpster for something to eat and had a big smile on her face when he gave her some food. If she sat around having a pity party for herself she would starve.

That said, it is best to keep as busy as you can for as long as you can. That goes for mentally as well. Read a book or do a puzzle instead of just watching the idiot box. Take a class at your local community college. DO SOMETHING for goodness sake. Even if it is just a leisurely walk down the street and back. For once you give up and just sit around, the body and mind will just deteriorate even faster.

Sorry to go on like this. Blessings to everyone on this board whether they believe or not

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:15 am

If your friends can't tell you...who will? Grab your bootstraps, or get your butt to a doc...one of the two, dammit

Life's too short to be in pain

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:26 am

Blaine's right. I've always said that your friends will tell you when you're about to enter a room full of people, that you've got something hanging out of your nose. Your acquaintances won't tell you, instead they'll let you go out and make a fool of yourself.

Joe's got friends here and we want to see him happier in life. Heck, I want to see ME happier in life. I know that most of making that happen has to come from inside me. Starts with attitude, moves into action, and carries on from there. - DixieBoy

P.S. - Blaine, I know you didn't come up with that "I want to die like Grandpa did, in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car" thing. But I'm notfiying you now that I'm stealing that one. I love it !

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:49 pm

DixieBoy wrote:Blaine's right. I've always said that your friends will tell you when you're about to enter a room full of people, that you've got something hanging out of your nose. Your acquaintances won't tell you, instead they'll let you go out and make a fool of yourself.

Joe's got friends here and we want to see him happier in life. Heck, I want to see ME happier in life. I know that most of making that happen has to come from inside me. Starts with attitude, moves into action, and carries on from there. - DixieBoy

P.S. - Blaine, I know you didn't come up with that "I want to die like Grandpa did, in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car" thing. But I'm notfiying you now that I'm stealing that one. I love it !

Walking for an hour each day is a GOOD start to a program to feel better. Personally, I hurt so bad I can't walk or stand very long, so I ride a bicycle, and when I hunt, I go about a hundred yards into the woods carrying a camp stool. I'll be good and double dammed if I'm going to rust in place.