Question For The Genetics Experts

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Sixgun
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Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Sixgun »

Look here guys, my wife will not leave me alone to pursue my love of firearms. Her family is all involved (Italians!) and this dispute is really dampening the overall happiness of my household.

Here it goes:

Last week or so, another of our beloved Yorkies (Fatboy) died. I walked in the barn to retrieve the shovel, post hole bar and a rake to dig the grave. While walking around a pile of lumber, I noticed these three kittens sneaking behind it. Two were fuzzy black and the third was this kitten I have pictured--looks like a pureblood Himalayan. Anyway, I reached down and snagged it real quick, got scratched a bit, and went in the house to show mom. She says," Where did that come from?" I says, "In the barn". She says,"Go lie to someone else". I says, "I'm not in a good mood because of Fatboy and life is too short to lie, especially to a crazy Italian." :D

My wife and her family are dairy farmers (used to be) and have seen all kinds of animals. They claim I'm a liar as the cat looks too pureblooded to be a "barn cat" and that I probably purchased it at a pet store. I tell them I would not waste $2 on any stinkin' cat as I don't care for cats and we already have a million of those bird eaters floating around. I say that the cat is nasty which is typical of barn/wild cats. The cat is fine now--only takes a day or two for them to become domesticated.

By the way, this kitten is already costing me a small fortune in Fancy Feast catfood and other grooming shampoos, etc. :evil:

So.............my question is--------- can a pureblood look-a-like come from a black mother and a roaming Himalayan father? Remember, the other two kittens were fuzzy, but black. ------------------Sixgun

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harry
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by harry »

Its possible, my wife had a Himalayan / Manx cross, it would have kittens with no tails and some with tails. Some would look pure Himalayan and some would look Himalayn with tiger stripes.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by pwl44m »

Absolutely, We had a Grey striped alley cat that We picked up from someone giving them away. That thing was so wild We couldn't get near it for about a week till it got hungry. It tamed down quite well. Then We got a Black Himalayan (male) in due time they bred and We got some Georgeous Kittens. We kept one that looked somewhat like Yours. We had some Neighbors that raised Cats called Rag Dolls and sold for $2000 plus and shipped Worldwide. Our Alley cat produced Kittens that looked better than Theirs. Ours died last year a age 18.
Aks Her does She thinka Ur stupid, U can get Kittens almost any day of the week at Wally World. Besides , have Her read Your posts ( Ur too tight to buy a Cat) :lol: :lol:
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by madman4570 »

Yes, Daughter's orange tabby cat (called Kitter's)gave birth to 4 kittens 2 months ago.
2 were orange tabby,1 was black/brown,and one looks like a purebred Siamese.

Say to em, you can keep that darn cat(but I want another gun and another Yorkie pup(and I am calling him Mr. Ingot )
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by mikld »

I have read somewhere that cats can be impregnated and carry babies by two fathers. Now I ain't a vet and I'm no animal husbandry guy so don't beat me up too bad if this is in fact an old wive's tale...
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by FWiedner »

I'd say that's a darn cute chunk of fish bait.

:wink:
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Griff »

I believe the scientific definition is as an old horse breeder tole me: "Take the best, breed it to the best, then hope for the best!" I've seen purebred quarter horses of champion lines both top and bottom produce winners and dogfood.

I had (older died a year & ½ ago), two grand daughters of Poco Bueno, one of the best breedin' quarter horses ever. Both shared the same lineage... one was 14-1 and was of the "bulldog" look. Athletic as all get-out and willing to do anything. Both the daughter of the old guy I bought 'em from and I won buckles and trophies on her. Her sister, 3 years younger, was 15-3, long of leg and body, and while smooth ridin' was afraid of water (if you were sittin' on her, otherwise she'd wade out into the pond to swim to the neighbors), stubborn to a fault and pig headed to boot. She'd do ok, if you waited her snits out, but you had to work hard to get good performances out of her. Faster'n her sister by quite a bit, but didn't like to run, needed constant "urging"! :P

About the only thing they had in common was that lineage thing, and they were both sorrels. I believe that old horse breeder. And, that it applies across all species.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by jeepnik »

Yep, it's natures way of keeping the gene pool viable. While some genes are recessive, they are still there and pop out from time to time. I've had cats pretty much my entire life. All were mixes. And remember this, a female cat can and usually does breed with several males when in heat. No telling who the daddy is to any given kitten, DNA testing not withstanding.

Speaking of DNA, there is a test they do on dogs that will tell you what breeds they are. I wonder if they've cataloged cat DNA yet.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Chas. »

Just like in humans. Identical twins, since they split from the common egg, can only have the same father. Fraternal twins, however, spawned from 2 different eggs and could have 2 different fathers -circumstances not withstanding.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by hfcable »

re: genetics. even if you clone a cat [ or other mammal ] and it has exactly the same genetics, they often don't look the same [due to 'epigenetics', etc ]. first cloned cat at texas A&M was done for a major $ donor to the program, as a condition of his funding it. his beloved tabby was cloned before it died. the resultant kitten was totally different color and size though it had exactly the same DNA/genes.

sorta like a beethoven symphony.....all the notes can be the same but the different orchestras, conductors, concert halls, all of this can make it come out almost remarkably different.

who'd a thunk it!
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by jeepnik »

hfcable wrote:re: genetics. even if you clone a cat [ or other mammal ] and it has exactly the same genetics, they often don't look the same [due to 'epigenetics', etc ]. first cloned cat at texas A&M was done for a major $ donor to the program, as a condition of his funding it. his beloved tabby was cloned before it died. the resultant kitten was totally different color and size though it had exactly the same DNA/genes.

sorta like a beethoven symphony.....all the notes can be the same but the different orchestras, conductors, concert halls, all of this can make it come out almost remarkably different.

who'd a thunk it!

Like I said, the genes are still there, even if recessive. No telling which genes will become dominant. Again, natures way.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Sixgun »

Thanks a heep guys. This one was a newby on me. I figured there would always be some kind of a mix. Not to sound racist, but I've seen plenty of offspring from a human black father/mother and a white father/mother and I could always see the mix, sometimes subtle, but there. This cat looks purebred.

My better half read all the posts, (ours mirrors pwl44m--thanks Perry!) so it looks like I can get some happiness around here and get back to my ingots. :D Thanks to you boys :D

Griff, I hear 'ya on the horse thingy. Our last breeding experiment about 15 years ago produced a high strung crazy filly and both mom and dad were calm. Didn't go for dog food but should have.

Even if you breed a Winchester and a Jap, you can see the difference. The metal may be stronger, but the wood ain't as dense and the bluing is a bit shinny. :D

Oh wait, now I'm hearing a new one from the boss. She thinks some female cats will steal kittens from another litter. Yea, Like our barn cat is gonna waltz into some yuppie's house, steal a kitten and drag it a half mile to here. Italians! :D

Well, thanks boys and I guess thats my excitement for the week! :D -------------Sixgun
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Hobie »

It is still a cat...

After dealing with my mother's 7 cats (as I promised to do, bless her heart) I will not ever have a cat in my home. A cat is a cat is a pain...

PS - yes, I HAD to say that. I've been "traumatized' and Mom lost thousands in the value of home and furnishings because of those cats.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by hfcable »

Hobie, it really .....sounds....little short of ............[argggh ] CAT-ASTROPHIC! :o

[ sorry.......i often just cannot help myself ]
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by alnitak »

Absolutely, it can happen. Just a matter of how the genes (and probabilities) "align".
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Pete44ru »

1 pure black gene + 1 pure white gene can easily end up becoming a litter with 1 black, 1 white, 1 grey (half&half), and others patchy.

Genes don't get blended smoothly, they get strewn, wily-nilly, amongst the available ovum.

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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

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WHERE'S TERRY WHEN WE NEED HIM?
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by 6pt-sika »

It ain't no seceret that I don't care for cats .

But the humanitarian in me is telling me to be a good person , so with all that BS being said I'll offer my services to come and move that big pile of nasty lead so they don't fall on the poor kitten or some poor barn rat knaws on it and gets lead poisening .

And I'll just move it down here since my Steel Butler building has no cats or rats LOL's !
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Sixgun »

6pt-sika wrote:It ain't no seceret that I don't care for cats .

But the humanitarian in me is telling me to be a good person , so with all that BS being said I'll offer my services to come and move that big pile of nasty lead so they don't fall on the poor kitten or some poor barn rat knaws on it and gets lead poisening .

And I'll just move it down here since my Steel Butler building has no cats or rats LOL's !
O.K guys, I will agree that most of us feel the same on cats and ingots. The ingots are not worth a lot but at least they are worth somethin'. What the heck are cats good for? Rat & mice? Well, I bite my tongue as after 35 years of horse feed and other stuff out in the barn, I have never seen a live rat.

6pt- The ingots are close to the edge of the garage which is never locked and usually wide open. You can back the pick-up right up to 'em. Just be careful of that little trip wire that surrounds the ingots or those nasty claymores might mess up the paint job on your tailgate. :D -------------Sixgun
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by FWiedner »

Sixgun wrote:What the heck are cats good for?
I tried to tell y'all.

I can't explain it without gettin' unnecessarily graphic. Fish love kitten... uh, kittens.

:shock: :wink: :lol:
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Thunder50 »

My genetics class was long long ago, but yes, you can get color variations due to which gene is recessive and which is dominant, and just how dominant. Your cat having its markings and then having siblings that are black/greyish in color would not be out of the ordinary. Just like some littermates have short hair and some have long hair.
Also, I have also heard that a cat can be impreginated by different males too, so her kittens might have a mix of half sisters/brothers and full sisters/brothers.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by shooter »

I don't know about cats, but the puppy I just got about a month ago has a Black Lab for a dad and a Golden Retriever for a mom. Going on looks alone, he looks like the purest bred Black Lab I've ever seen. Not even a hint of any other breed. The rest of the litter varied some. I do realize that all the retriever breeds have a very similar ancestry, so the variations aren't likely to be as wide as if the Golden would have mated a Chihuahua, or German Shepherd, etc. So...to answer your question, I think it's possible.
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by SteveR »

Last year a kitten found my house, he looks a lot like yours. We think he is part siamese, with what they call an applehead.

He turned out to be one of the smartest and friendly of all the cats we had for pets. He does get a bit loud and likes to meow.

Good luck with it.

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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Sixgun »

Thanks guys! Well, my better half is finally convinced. Shooter, that was the icing on the cake. Thanks-------Sixgun
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by 1894c »

sorry for the loss of "FATBOY"...it saddens me when a good dog decides to leave... :(
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Sixgun »

336bl wrote:sorry for the loss of "FATBOY"...it saddens me when a good dog decides to leave... :(

Thanks 336. Over the years I have buried 13 Yorkies and like Joe says, it never gets easier. Fatboy was not really fat, he was huge for a Yorkie---18 pounds. He started getting seizures and after a trip to the vet and $500 later, we found him dead in front of the TV.

But one thing that give me solace and thats the fact that our dogs lived better than most people. Chicken breast at nightime, always warm in winter and cool in summer.

My #1 dog, Skittles died last year and it near put me in the grave with her.--------------Sixgun
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by 2ndovc »

Sixgun wrote:
336bl wrote:sorry for the loss of "FATBOY"...it saddens me when a good dog decides to leave... :(

Thanks 336. Over the years I have buried 13 Yorkies and like Joe says, it never gets easier. Fatboy was not really fat, he was huge for a Yorkie---18 pounds. He started getting seizures and after a trip to the vet and $500 later, we found him dead in front of the TV.

But one thing that give me solace and thats the fact that our dogs lived better than most people. Chicken breast at nightime, always warm in winter and cool in summer.

My #1 dog, Skittles died last year and it near put me in the grave with her.--------------Sixgun
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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

My gun lovin' Maui wildcat Misha looks pretty much Siamese. I found her abandoned by her momma in my garage, she was tiny and making an awful racket that Siamese are notorious for. Misha is OLD and getting senile at 16 but in her youth she was an excellent mouser, and roach killer. I will miss her when she is gone. My rural neighborhood had a population of feral Siamese looking cats.

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Re: Question For The Genetics Experts

Post by Charles »

I am one of those strange folks who like cats and have three of them. There are many different breeds of dogs, but cats are cats. It is possible to get odd colored kittens even from a breeding of cats that look alike. It is also true that kittens in a litter can come from different fathers.

So, I don't find you odd looking kitten to be suprising at all. Cute little booger.

Many people don't like cats because they can't control them like they can a dog. That says more about the human than it does about cats or dogs for that matter. Dogs has lost their wild and can become utterly dependent on humans. Cats never loose their wild nature and just live with us as a matter of convenience. Still they can bond with and become very fond of their humans.
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