Old bikers getting killed

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:42 am

As an old biker who has had a few close calls (haven't we all?) I really notice news articles of bike accidents. Last week we had 4 motorcycle fatalities in Oregon that I read about, with 3 of them in one day. All of these were "biker fault" wrecks where the biker ran into a larger vehicle (3 of them) or the biker failed to negotiate a curve (one of them). To go along with this, I had one of my own that "could'a been a close call" a couple weeks earlier where I came into a blind curve way too hot and was slow enough reacting that I needed quite a lot of the oncoming lane to get around the curve. Was no oncoming traffic, but I could have been a hood ornament there, and it would have been totally my fault.

So I did a little search on "Biker deaths in Oregon" and found that not only this state but the whole country has seen quite an increase in biker deaths over the past decade and it seems to coincide with a big increase in the numbers of us "older bikers".

Now this surprised me: I always figured the big contributor to "biker fatality" statistics was the 18 year old with a newly-acquired crotch rocket. I think that used to be the case, but now it appears to be the 58 year old kid who just acquired the big Harley he always wanted, but didn't want to risk it while raising a family. Or maybe the 68 year old kid (like yours truly) whose reaction times have slowed and he hasn't adjusted fast enough to the deterioration.

Now don't get me wrong, the folks driving cars who don't see the bike and pull right in front of you are still a large part of the accident scene. But in the majority of the fatalities happening these days the biker kills himself.

Just thought I'd pass along this little tidbit of info, since I know there are a lot of us aging bikers on the forum. I am trying to make adjustments in my riding style to compensate for a little slowed reaction time, and it is hard. The brain still thinks it is running the body of a young kid, but the reality is that the body belongs to an older kid and doesn't work quite as quick as it used to. Dang!

We have a "Team Oregon" that puts on a biker school, that now is mandatory for riders under age 51 to get their motorcycle endorsement for driver license. I always thought this was a really good idea for those "new bikers". I'm wondering if maybe this older guy shouldn't take the course, just to see if I pick up some more survival tips.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:50 am

Yes i have noticed that too; the "lost control" type of bike accidents with older people. When I did the ALCAN this summer i made it a point to go 50mph. The amount of older guys that flew by me like I was standing still was shocking. When I got 8 miles up the road there they were all stopped at a Point of interest. I got passed like this about20-30 times a day. hen I got to Fairbanks it was reversed. The old guys were too slow and the younger kids were the speed demons...

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:04 pm

You've made an interesting observation there, never thought about it that way. Lot's of truth me thinks. I'm not nearly as nimble at 45 as I was when 20 and it's pretty obvious that it ain't gonna get better as I get older still.

Personally, I've never bought into all that high percentage of motorcycle accidents being caused by drivers not seeing the bike. Don't get me wrong, when I was riding a lot there was a lot of dumb, spaced out drivers around and I think it's even worse today (cell phones and the like) but a majority of the time the cyclist played at least a part or is wholly at fault in the accident. I've known a lot of guys that have had spills and accidents and had a few close calls myself, I can only think of one that was a driver not seeing the cycle. As I got older I realized it was just US being dumb most of the time.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:14 pm

Take a outside leaning curve on a down hill mountain road and ya got a lot of bike accedents.
A buddy has curve like that west of Yakama WA and says there are bikes going of that curve all the time.
A lot of experianced riders from flat country get themselves hurt or killed on mountain roads too, go into a down hill curve to fast.
Yep ya gotta be careful especially in strange contry, high winds is another bad one.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:34 pm

I gave it up, not for that reason though. It was close calls with deer. I might pick up a trail bike. I've had a heard of Wings and loved them. I just can't afford to go down.

Owen

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:52 pm

I still ride scoot too fast sometime...Pitchy, I know exactly what road you're talking about...it's a killer for sure!!

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:16 pm

Good observations. The only time I crashed a bike was on a decreasing radius turn that I did not know about (later discovered it's called "dead man's curve" - gee, that's nice) because, like most bikers I think, I'm constantly on the lookout for some fool who's going to try to kill me with a left hand turn or lane change. But it's the fool gripping the bars who's the only one who ever got me!

And yes, all of my aging pals are getting Harleys. Many have dumped them at least once already.

Best,
Oly

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:24 pm

I havent rode in many years. However I lived on motorcycles years ago and probley have over 200,000 miles on them mostly harley full dressers along with britt bikes. What I definetly noticed any given day was usualy when I was on my police looking harleys I about owned the road. I would get on my royal enfield or triumph and it seemed I took my life in my hands. Motorists would make left turns in front of me by about a 1/3 of the distance than they would allow me rideing my hawg. Although I once had a motorist delibertly try to kill me and my buddy putting along side by side with me. We had got off work late and were rideing about 03:00 in uniform. Once I had a bike go around me and instead of just swinging in front of me and going straight he still kept drifting right. There was a small reality sales building that sat off the road. The end faceing us had a rack of bars over the large window. He went straight for it like he was aiming for it. It looked like a cartoon. He took out the bars, window and left a huge hole in the wall! I pulled over and at first tried the front door and couldnt get in. It was blocked with cabinets crashed into it. I finaly got in through the wall and found him jammed up. I took his helmit off and was surprised to see a bald headed older man that I reconised. He was small and looked like a kid. I seen him latter and he told me he didnt even remember passing me or the wreck. I guess he had a spell or medicine reaction. One funny sidelight thing. A woman came out of the bathroom. She saw me looking down the front of her and it looked like she had peeded herself. She told me without asking that the crash spilled coffee on her and she used the bathroom to clean up. I guess she cleaned up without checking to see if the guy was alive! I think I was right the first time.
I have been in three bad MC accidents that should have killed me. Had more close calls than I could count. I rode from a kid up to about 45 years old. I never really quit in my mind, its just that I went through a bad divorice and got wiped out etc. Now I am 71+ years old. I and my wife are huge. A harley or any other bike wont carry us in comfort. It would be selfish to leave her and ride by myself. Partly the same reason I dont fly anymore.
Probley we dont have the immediate strength we had as young men could be a factor too. I will also admit I was a overconfident rider, also as a pilot. I would like to think I got smarter if I were to ride again. I dont think I ever drove 4 wheels reckless though.

K1500 · Post by **K1500** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:45 pm

My MSF course instructor said that if you ride long enough, you WILL be killed on a bike. It is a statistical fact. My job is to delay that long enough that something else gets you first. Now, the same can be said for driving, walking, boating, eating, etc.

I think there is a point where the reaction times slow and the risk/reward trade off tips more towaed risk and less toward reward. It is time to park the bike when that happen.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:19 pm

I was an abnormality, having never been down, despite being a (fast) rider from 1964 to 1991 - but I sold my last bike (a 1971 Norton Commando SS) when I started to experience sudden, unannounced bouts of vertigo.

I could read the writing on the wall: "R.I.P."

.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:00 pm

Earl: I believe those figures about more fatalities among older riders are skewed by the number of "aging baby boomers" who take up motorcycling for the first time in middle to late middle age. We had a case here in Medford a few years back involving a guy killed riding his new Harley home from the dealership. He had very few hours on any kind of bike. I got my MC endorsement about six years ago, prompted by a buddy with a Harley. He then hit a deer near Jacksonville, broke ribs and lost his spleen, then had another accident a year later that cost him his leg. I decided I would get a little Honda Ruckus and leave the real bikes to the guys and gals with many years of experience.
I find myself wishing I had a fun vehicle, though, and am keeping an eye out for an old open Jeep or maybe a VW bug convertible.
I am also considering one of these:

http://www.hiwheel.com/antique_replicas ... lassic.htm

Of course, I could take a header in the first 50 feet ...

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:33 pm

YeeeeeHaaaaaaaa

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:42 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:Earl: I believe those figures about more fatalities among older riders are skewed by the number of "aging baby boomers" who take up motorcycling for the first time in middle to late middle age. We had a case here in Medford a few years back involving a guy killed riding his new Harley home from the dealership. He had very few hours on any kind of bike. I got my MC endorsement about six years ago, prompted by a buddy with a Harley. He then hit a deer near Jacksonville, broke ribs and lost his spleen, then had another accident a year later that cost him his leg. I decided I would get a little Honda Ruckus and leave the real bikes to the guys and gals with many years of experience.
I find myself wishing I had a fun vehicle, though, and am keeping an eye out for an old open Jeep or maybe a VW bug convertible.
I am also considering one of these:

http://www.hiwheel.com/antique_replicas ... lassic.htm

Of course, I could take a header in the first 50 feet ...

I agree. If you look at the stats you will see it has been the same for decades. Most accidents happen in the first 6 months of new ownership age having nothing to do with it. Babyboomers crashing their first bike is not unique to baby boomers in general.

I'm in my sixties now. But, I rode from my teens until I was about 40. When I was 25 I had a bad wreck. It was one of those idiots looking right at me and then pull out in front of me. I spent 4 weeks in the hospital mending a right leg that was broke in 4 places. A year or so later I was riding again but I was much more alert. I never assumed someone actually saw me just because they were looking my way.

My last one.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:02 pm

WAHOOOO PITCHY, you've got a highwheel! I am green with envy or algae, or something.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:19 pm

I haven't seen the latest numbers, but the motorcycle industry is not doing so good overall. The average age of owners, last I heard was steadily trending upward.

And sadly, for some of us, getting older and wiser is not necessarily connected. (grin)

I know Harley was fighting the image of being a 'geezer's bike' and they were pushing their sportsters. I would be interesting in seeing how that marketing works out.

Me, I started out again on a 650 bike (Kawasaki KLR 650) and that's really the limit of a beginner's bike. Had my druthers, I would highly recommend a little Honda Rebel or something else in the 250 range. Ride it like you stole it for a year, then you *might* have the experience to move up to a bigger bike.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:24 pm

Wec, I had been thinking of "starting" with a beater Suzuki Savage one-lung thumper before my buddy's misfortunes sobered me up. There's a chap her in my small town who picks up his groceries driving a nice old late 1950s BMW with a fabulous retro look and sound to it. Thank the Divine Creator it is not for sale ...

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:34 pm

wecsoger wrote:I haven't seen the latest numbers, but the motorcycle industry is not doing so good overall. The average age of owners, last I heard was steadily trending upward.

And sadly, for some of us, getting older and wiser is not necessarily connected. (grin)

I know Harley was fighting the image of being a 'geezer's bike' and they were pushing their sportsters. I would be interesting in seeing how that marketing works out.

Me, I started out again on a 650 bike (Kawasaki KLR 650) and that's really the limit of a beginner's bike. Had my druthers, I would highly recommend a little Honda Rebel or something else in the 250 range. Ride it like you stole it for a year, then you *might* have the experience to move up to a bigger bike.

One of our regular posters, an accomplished rider, just finished a multi-thousand mile, cross-country, into Alaska on a little 250......When I was a kid, a 350 Honda was a big bike, and the bigger Brit scoots were the monster super scoots. I've had an Ultra Classic for over a year. Too big, and heavy for me. Got something more versatile, and about 300lbs lighter. Faster, and better mpg. The Ultra Classic is not selling, and I might know why.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:10 pm

The statistics seem to show it is the same generation javing mosy of the fatalities. They are just older now. But they led in 1975 also, just young then.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:19 pm

Put one in ditch when I was about 25, too fast through a curve. Uninjured but stoppef riding not long after. My recent accident would almost certainly have been a fatality on a cycle.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:42 pm

When I was a kid, a 350 Honda was a big bike

Laughing. I also am of an age, remembering when the Honda 750/4 was *the* superbike of it's time. Today, the little 400 crotch rockets will run rings around it.

Remember the move The Wild One? Marlon Brando's bad boy bike was a...wait for it...a 650 Triumph. Today's younger crowd would laugh themselves silly thinking that was a kick butt bike.

Today's bikes have an insane amount of power. You can be running 65 on a 55mph city bypass, see a sheriff's deputy running radar ahead and be 140 when you go past him. Not that I've personally done that. Just sayin'.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:11 pm

San Antone seems to eat about a biker a week in the summer. Almost always failure to negotiate a curve. A cop I know was stopped to turn left when a drunk plowed him from behind, killed his wife, left him with a long hospital stay. This was a rural accident.

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:26 pm

Never owned or rode a motorcycle or really wanted one.
But, I've promised myself a new Harley for my 90th birthday, in 26 years.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:24 pm

Good for you, but you might settle for a Hoveround with a loud exhaust.

Owen

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:33 pm

My first bike (1987) was a Yamaha 650 Special.

Wanted a CB400 but none were handy & in my price range.

Got a '75 KZ400 now, but it needs rebuilding before I can ride it.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:00 am

Bill in Oregon wrote:I believe those figures about more fatalities among older riders are skewed by the number of "aging baby boomers" who take up motorcycling for the first time in middle to late middle age. We had a case here in Medford a few years back involving a guy killed riding his new Harley home from the dealership.

Yes, that may be a good part of the statistic. And Oregon is working on that part: you now have to go through the "Team Oregon" motorcycle training to get your motorcycle endorsement if you are under 50. By 2014 it will be everybody (they probably phased it in from the wrong age direction, from the looks of the statistics!). A neighbor of mine got a big cruiser a couple of years ago and took the training course even though it wasn't required at the time. He says he gained a great deal of knowledge and confidence from the course and he has been accident free for two years and has put a fair number of miles on his new scoot, too. I'm not normally in favor of government mandates, but you put a fellow who has never ridden, or hasn't rode for 30 years maybe, on one of these 1600+ cc bikes and he's a menace to everybody on or near the road. (Won't keep me from howling if they decide to require the course for renewal, though it'd probably be a good idea)

Old Savage wrote:The statistics seem to show it is the same generation having most of the fatalities. They are just older now. But they led in 1975 also, just young then.

Ha! I hadn't thought of it like that. But you nailed her, O.S.

3leggedturtle wrote:When I did the ALCAN this summer i made it a point to go 50mph. The amount of older guys that flew by me like I was standing still was shocking.

I'm not shocked. And I couldn't ride like that: I've gotta' focus so much attention to hazards ahead I don't have attention span left over to make sure I'm not about to get creamed from behind (possibly by a retired guy in a brand new 30' motorhome, who never drove anything bigger than the family sedan before this vacation...)

I'm not advocating us old guys give up riding, just taking a little allowance for our slowly decaying skill set and maybe being willing to not feel embarrassed if we have wore-out tires that still have a lot of rubber left at the outer edges of the tread. Anyway, stuff to think about.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:40 am

I too remember an incident where an older motorcyclist got killed on the way home from the dealership, back in Cincinnati about 25 years ago. Has probably happened many times.

I have always been a bicyclist but never a motorcyclist. I ride to work daily now, and getting older I seem to have a decrease in balance. It may be due to ear problems, but if you are overweight it's harder to balance too. Seems pretty crucial for a cyclist, I really try to take it easy.

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:46 am

ROFLMAO.....!!!
Pitchy...you found the perfect "Geezer Bike".
Thanks for sharing. When my '85 FXR finally breaks BEYOND repair/rebuild...I'll get one of those. By then, it may very well be all I can handle..!!
(the FXR has carried me 260,000 mi. so far...Canada to Key West, Atlantic to Pacific...and still counting.)

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:21 am

I think the statistics show also that most accidents come from those who have ot had motorcycle safety courses, especially in states where it s not required. I'm a big fan of the courses. My only major accident came from an old guy making a left hand turn in front of me on my Harley. Same type accident killed my best friend and his rider. The minor spills have all been slow speed rider (me) personal errors. The "could have been bad ones" were combos of overwriting conditions on my behalf or poor driving by others. Recently sold my Harley and down sized to a 650 Suzuki wih a different seating position. The change has slowed me down and suits my ever creeping age. Good post and follow up discussions. Be safe out there guys

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:58 am

guido4198 wrote:ROFLMAO.....!!!
Pitchy...you found the perfect "Geezer Bike".
Thanks for sharing. When my '85 FXR finally breaks BEYOND repair/rebuild...I'll get one of those. By then, it may very well be all I can handle..!!
(the FXR has carried me 260,000 mi. so far...Canada to Key West, Atlantic to Pacific...and still counting.)

Thanks, the high bike is made from a hay rake wheel and is not very ridable

As far as getting old and riding motorcycles, heck ride them like ya mean it . When your time is up it`s up could happen walking across the street.
We can`t turn into a bunch of wussies just because we`re getting a little gray.
Just ride responsibly like this.

click on pic for video.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:13 am

Complacency kills as does overconfidence, with bikes as with guns.

Friend of my dad's, now long dead (40 year motorcyclist and a stroke got him, not the bike) said accidents happened on bikes when you thought you were in control, not the bike.

He buried half a dozen riding friends so I assume he knew of what he spoke.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:32 am

Speaking of motorcycles, this one is built right here in the Rogue Valley. The good news for our little town of Talent, between Medford and Ashland, is that Brammo is buying the WalMart that just closed and will build the Empulse here:

http://www.youtube.com/brammo

walks with gun · Post by **walks with gun** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:49 am

It took a lot of years to figure it out but as a semi retired outlaw (independent) I have definatley slowed down and sobered up. I've spent way too long in hospitals to keep that stuff up, now my only bike is my old bob job H-D trike, three wheels is still fun. I'm wondering in this day of distracted drivers how many cell phone-bike accidents there have been. Do we really need to multi-task.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:31 am

Bill in Oregon wrote: The good news for our little town of Talent, between Medford and Ashland, is that Brammo is buying the WalMart that just closed and will build the Empulse here:

Wow! that's a mighty fine looking.... uh... Bike! there, Bill. It may be your patriotic duty to reconsider your decision about biking, and get one of these hot off the assembly line.

walks with gun wrote: I'm wondering in this day of distracted drivers how many cell phone-bike accidents there have been.

Friend of mine was stopped at a light the other day. Fellow in a truck, talking on cell phone, plowed into him without even getting to the brakes. Fortunately for the friend he was driving his 3/4 ton pickup rather than his bike. Totaled the pickup; would have killed anybody on a bike. And the thought of that makes a biker think at bit. But I've always kept an eye on what's coming from behind and hope I might be able to squirt to the side if somebody doesn't look like they are slowing to stop. Anyway, the statistics show that it is us bikers killing ourselves that is still the major contributor to fatalities, which says to me that so long as we drive within our abilities, keep a wary eye out to the front and don't let 'em get us from behind, our chances remain excellent. It's just that "driving within our abilities" is tricky when the body has slowed down more than the brain realizes.

ArcticGoose · Post by **ArcticGoose** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:29 pm

Sadly, this topic really hits home with me. I've been riding since I was a kid. Not a lot but several bikes have come and gone. Driving with my kids in my Toyota Tacoma I was hit by an "older" gentleman on a brand new Harley. He was coming up hill on a sweeping corner and just seemed to freeze up. As he crossed over the centerline I moved over as far as I could without hitting the guard rail (mountain road). That helped me avoid hitting him head-on and instead he hit right at my door (45mph speed limit). Luckily he came off the bike right away. The bike traveled down the side of the truck, hitting the rear tire hard enough to spin us more then 90 degrees. We all had seats belts on and were mostly unhurt thank God.

When we came to a stop I thought for sure the rider was dead. God must of been watching over him. An EMT and a cardiologist happened to be right there and the fire department and ambulance were there very quickly. I later learned he was released from the hospital 2 hours later with a broken toe and jaw. I can't hep but wonder if he hadn't hit my truck, would he have gone over the guard rail?

Alaska is a great place for a ride, Just be careful out there!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:27 pm

I rode as a kid of about 13, had a couple of sorta bad wrecks, not to mention numerous small laydowns and drops. All of the wrecks I had were my fault, due to lack of trainning and my own young stupidy. I never rode from about 21 on until I turned 45 and I am now 55 and I have been riding steadily for the last 10yrs.

Before I started riding again, I decided to take a Motorcycle safety course. I have no doubt that the things I learned in it has saved my life several times.

In the last 10yrs I have personally known several people who have gotten killed on motorcycles. Some were young, and some were middle aged, but almost all died (in my humble opinion) due to inexperience, and lack of training, except for a couple who got taken out by other larger vehicles, and a couple of deer hits. Riding drunk may have gotten a couple of them into trouble, but age does not make make much difference, but being a new rider sure does, no matter what the age.

A lot of older people get killed because they go out and purchase a big bike, but do not know how to handle the bike. There are so many things that can trip up a new rider, and the first 6 months is probably the most dangerous. Of course some old experienced riders do have wrecks, but I know a lot of old men that have rode most of their life, and never seem to have any problems, and it's not nessairly because they have any great riding skills, it's more related to the fact that they just know how to avoid getting into a tight fix, to start with. It's not knee dragging cornering skills or emegency braking skills that keep them alive, it's more like having a 6th sense, they just seem to know if the fool in the cage is going to do a left turn in front of them or not, and they don't go into curves all that hot, using up 90% of their contact patch's traction, etc.

They know not to ride too close behind or beside of big trucks, and how to stay out of other people's blind spots, they know about edge traps, and how to cut a dog in two, without going down, or avoid the dog all together. They don't ride drunk, and they know night riding is more dangerous, especially in deer country. Also, another common wive's tale is it's safer to ride in a group, that's B.S. Group riding has a whole new set of dangers to deal with. A new rider should probably not ride with a group, unless it's maybe only one or two other riders, till he gets some experience, and I personally sure as heck don't want a new rider riding behind me in a group. If a new rider gets in a tight spot, he is more likely to freeze up and forget everything he knows about controlling a motorcycle.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:36 pm

I deleted my remarks guys may rewrite later.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:43 am

After 38 years of rideing I find myself slowing down alot more,rideing with the Hi-beam on in the day time,using hand signals in addition to the turnsignals. the explosion in deer and wild turkey numbers in ohio is all great but they sure aren't something I want to see on the road.
I could fill the page, but to Me the #1 problem on the road for a M/C rider are "distracted" drivers. trying to drive and talk on the phone with their head up their A**.

Good Luck to All.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:48 am

I've been riding 35+ years myself, and I gotta agree - people
not paying attention, and not only to bikes, is my biggest fear!

How anyone can do a decent job of driving while texting or
having a serious conversation on the telephone is beyond me.

My oldest just got his license, and teaching him has reinforced
some lessons for me. Situational awareness - all the time! Road
surfaces, other traffic, anticiaption, regularly checking blind
spots, who's behind you and how close etc., etc...

Pay attention and ride/drive safely out there!

-Stretch

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:44 pm

Word!

Those brake lights that strobe for a few flashs are super, as well. My Tenere does not have enough lights on it....

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:48 pm

The rate of automobile wrecks and deaths for males over 65 is the same as that of males under 25. At least that is what I was taught in my last Defensive Driving class. It should not be a suprise that older bikers will mirror this same stastic.

No doubt about it, as you get older, you reflexes, coordination, eyesight and attention span are deminished. Shooters over 65 can't shoot like they did when younger, why should they think they can drive or ride like they once did. Well, they can't.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:51 pm

I'll have to admit that every time I have a close call with a deer, I think of how it might have ended if I had been on a cycle. NOT PRETTY, and there's almost nothing you can do to prevent it. I've seen deer leap out onto the roadway at high noon on a hot summer day, and it just gets riskier as the hours draw closer to dusk. And Oregon doesn't have near the deer densities that you guys in the whitetail states have.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:11 pm

I do know one old biker who has a saying that he lives by. "Everyone else on the road is crazy and trying to kill you"

Maybe he has a point, although I don't think it's quite that bad, but the trick is identifying the ones that are going to try to kill you before it's too late, and maybe one should also look in the mirror.

Mac in Mo · Post by **Mac in Mo** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:47 pm

Sad to say, but a 53 year old guy was killed earlier today, about three blocks from my house. Apparently, a school bus turned left in front of him and he was killed. This was in a 35 MPH zone. Several witnesses stated the cyclist was simply unable to avoid the collision.

Kevin

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 am

Bill in Oregon wrote:I'll have to admit that every time I have a close call with a deer, I think of how it might have ended if I had been on a cycle. NOT PRETTY, and there's almost nothing you can do to prevent it. I've seen deer leap out onto the roadway at high noon on a hot summer day, and it just gets riskier as the hours draw closer to dusk. And Oregon doesn't have near the deer densities that you guys in the whitetail states have.

Last year about this time, I was riding to AZ, and was about an hour north of Susanville. It was dark, and I had seen several deer on the side of the road, and had slowed down to about 45. Next think you know, one went in front of me so close I could have reached out and grabbed fur off his azz....I don't know how I missed it. Probably slowing down like that saved my butt....I was a little shaky for a few minutes.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:04 am

The last year I had my Wing, I'd slow to 45 or less in deer areas. There's a big difference in total damge between 45 and 60 mph.

Owen

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:26 pm

Thanks, Earl. This is a wake-up call.

I still miss my bike some 35 plus years later - given up for "family considerations." At 67 I still think about hopping on another ride, and in fact every year I consider getting into the fray again. The feeling of freedom and the ride are exhiliarating and more fun than a barrel of monkeys, and I miss that experience every time I see a bike, moving or stationery.

But those reflexes are not what they used to be, even though one forgets that at times.

I'm going to print this out and read all the pros and cons of being a Grandpa on two wheels.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:08 am

L_Kilkenny wrote: Personally, I've never bought into all that high percentage of motorcycle accidents being caused by drivers not seeing the bike....

It's called "threat assessment," and it plagues the older drivers, especially - the "little old ladies" who seem to outnumber old men on the road. You see, as one gets older (or more impaired), their ability to make quick multiple micro-decisions drops substantially. So they subconsciously filter out the least threatening factors and work to avoid the more obvious dangers. A small motorcycle is less likely to hurt them, by their threat assessment, so at times it just doesn't enter their already busy mental radar screen. Like a stealth plane, the bike is virtually invisible to them when they are negotiating heavy traffic.

As for what is erroneously called "multi-tasking," there is no such thing in the human brain as it relates to higher mental activity. Sensory input can only be processed one item at at time. That is the reason that a dentist jerks your cheek to distract you from feeling the novacaine needle.

The myth is that women can generally multi-task much better than men can. In fact, studies show that women can generally process microbits of information and switch back and forth between different stimuli more quickly and efficiently than men, statistically. Additionally, they can keep track of more diverse details as they do so. But they do NOT multi-task (process several bits of input at once). Your computer multi-tasks, not people.

Anyway, this "invisible motorcycle" thing happened to me, once, while pulling around a corner slowly after stopping at a busy city intersection. A little old lady (no kidding) looked right at me and then almost killed me. She was across from me, turning left into my lane; I had stopped and had the right-of-way as I turned right from the opposite direction into the same lane. I had to pull my bike into the curb to avoid being run over.

She claimed that I came from nowhere, and when I told her that she looked right at me, she insisted that she never saw me. You see, my bike was less of a threat, per her threat assessment, than big, heavy vehicles (cars and trucks) sharing the road. I even had my headlight on, which presumably makes one more visibile, implemented by most riders in my state exactly because of this phenomenon.

Booger Bill's post on the first page of this thread talks about an older man who claimed that he never saw him. He was probably telling the truth - he looked right at him and didn't see him - "...I took his helmet off and was surprised to see a bald headed older man that I recognised. He was small and looked like a kid. I saw him later and he told me he didn't even remember passing me or the wreck...."

Other riders I know have reported near misses in the same scenario. Where I live, it seems that it is more dangerous to ride in the city at intersections than on the highway - providing that you are not trying to be Rocky the Flying Squirrel.

And I have seen several reports or heard of incidents where older drivers, especially, have difficulty in assessing oncoming traffic from both directions when they pull onto a busy non-controlled thoroughfare; they get t-boned much more frequently than younger drivers. One little old lady (again; 95, I think) just got killed in this manner as she pulled into the street after church services in my town - the next church down from mine - this month.

Moral of my little stories: As I was told by an experienced rider when I first mounted up, "Ride like everybody is trying to kill you." I see that Lastmohecken got the same advice!

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:50 am

That's exactly it. I assume that everybody is out to kill me, and on the bike it's usually true.

Oly

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:40 am

I should have said this in My first post, if You have an older bike that the headlight doesn't stay on all the time,please turn the thing on. I have several times not seen a speeding bike comeing at Me (light not on) until it was what would have been too late if I was turning.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:44 am

Loud Pipes Save Lives...