PMR-30 failure

[olyinaz]

Jeff Quinn had a catastrophic failure in his PMR-30 today:



Photo is from his Facebook page. I suspect he'll have something up on Gunblast about it soon.

Things that make you go hmmmm....

Oly

[FWiedner]

I'm curious as to how or what degree of "catastorphic" that photo reflects. Is it "Dang, I broke the gun" catastrophic, or "Holy Cr*p, I coulda died" catastrophic?

Looks like something jammed and a piece of plastic broke off. Does it still function?

Appearances can be deceiving. I don't own a PMR-30, and Mr. Quinn likely knows more about the rest of the story than this reader.

I'll be interested to see the report.

[pwl44m]

He doesn't know what happened. He was shooting at a dog and the third round didn't go off.
It cost Me $20.59 to look at His FB page. I ordered the Elmer Keith book "Sixguns"
Perry

[AJMD429]

It cost Me $20.59 to look at His FB page. I ordered the Elmer Keith book "Sixguns"

Danger lurks everywhere...!

The PMR-30's sure are interesting guns; I didn't realize how much more power there was in a .22 WMR vs. a .22 LR, until I read some articles detailing just why there haven't been a host of other semiauto .22 WMR pistols (or rifles, for that matter). Still, if they can make 'blowback/inertia' type mechanisms to handle 9mm that are pretty compact, you'd think .22 WMR would be a piece of cake. I always hoped Ruger would come out with a Mark-II or whatever in .22 WMR.

[olyinaz]

You know, it actually looks like mostly damage to plastic parts, but I suspect he'll let Kel-Tec worry about that.

What was the .17HMR failure that was common in some of the auto rifles before most manufacturers gave up on that? Same thing as here?

Oly

[Tycer]

Here's a good pic of the same side of the gun in good order:

http://www.mdwguns.com/Review.html

I wonder if the firing pin stuck forward and it fired out of battery.

[Tycer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYzS5L0rVCE&hd=1

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f90/my-pmr ... up-212590/

[FWiedner]

Here's a good pic of the same side of the gun in good order:

http://www.mdwguns.com/Review.html

I wonder if the firing pin stuck forward and it fired out of battery.

The way the base of that brass is peeled up, kinda looks like just that.

[madman4570]

He was shooting at a dog and the third round didn't go off.
Perry

I have watched those guns shoot(and with that 30rds in that caliber/that gun,will tell you it is fast. Sometimes under those circumstances an ammo problem can "bite you" (when you are in the moment.)

Glad he wasn't injured and hope he gets a new gun(but to be fair also to the gun---who knows ammo defect?? squib etc??)

But, if "shooting at a dog"-----------------glad gun quit and hope dog got away uninjured!

[pwl44m]

But, if "shooting at a dog"-----------------glad gun quit and hope dog got away uninjured!

Nope, pulled His backup and dispatched it. Seems the dog had His Mother at bay and wouldn't let Her out of Her house. When He approached it came at Him. Sorry ! If U have FB or just go to Gunblast for the whole story,He did try to find the Owner to no avail.
Perry

[madman4570]

But, if "shooting at a dog"-----------------glad gun quit and hope dog got away uninjured!

Nope, pulled His backup and dispatched it. Seems the dog had His Mother at bay and wouldn't let Her out of Her house. When He approached it came at Him. Sorry ! If U have FB or just go to Gunblast for the whole story,He did try to find the Owner to no avail.
Perry

I guess to each their own

God, what ever happen to just grabbing something and wacking its butt with a broom and telling it (GET)
Guess I should have shot my neighbors Ridgeback that was growling at me while changing my oil on my SUV
Try that one,looking out from under a vehicle and seeing pearly whites and he be "talking" to ya.
Kicked at it/yelled/jumped out w/oil filter wrench and yelled(Get) at that time I did not who owned dog!

Let me tell ya,usually if a dog(loose)is going to want to really bite ya(your bit)
Bet if the mom grabbed a bucket of water/came out being dominant/soaking the dog---it would have scooted.

Like the song says------------where have all the Cowboys gone???????

Course maybe some worry about themselves more than others suppose????????
Maybe that is why I haven't been to a doctor in 6 years (but, proud of it)
But, I did go in 2009 to Walgreens(and have a non-doctor)shot giver hit me with a flu/phuemonia shot

[FWiedner]

But, if "shooting at a dog"-----------------glad gun quit and hope dog got away uninjured!

Nope, pulled His backup and dispatched it. Seems the dog had His Mother at bay and wouldn't let Her out of Her house. When He approached it came at Him. Sorry ! If U have FB or just go to Gunblast for the whole story,He did try to find the Owner to no avail.
Perry

I guess to each their own

God, what ever happen to just grabbing something and wacking its butt with a broom and telling it (GET)
Guess I should have shot my neighbors Ridgeback that was growling at me while changing my oil on my SUV
Try that one,looking out from under a vehicle and seeing pearly whites and he be "talking" to ya.
Kicked at it/yelled/jumped out w/oil filter wrench and yelled(Get) at that time I did not who owned dog!

Let me tell ya,usually if a dog(loose)is going to want to really bite ya(your bit)
Bet if the mom grabbed a bucket of water/came out being dominant/soaking the dog---it would have scooted.

Like the song says------------where have all the Cowboys gone???????

Course maybe some worry about themselves more than others suppose????????
Maybe that is why I haven't been to a doctor in 6 years (but, proud of it)
But, I did go in 2009 to Walgreens(and have a non-doctor)shot giver hit me with a flu/phuemonia shot

Are you really criticizing a person for shooting a stray dog that was threatening an elderly member of their family?

Do you reckon that maybe if'n he'd just let the critter take a bite of the old bird that maybe it'd settle down and move on, real peaceable like?

[Blaine]

Are you really criticizing a person for shooting a stray dog that was threatening an elderly member of their family?

Do you reckon that maybe if'n he'd just let the critter take a bite of the old bird that maybe it'd settle down and move on, real peaceable like?

I'm not familiar with other parts of the country, but around here, even in the sticks, if the word got out you shot a dog, you would be facing jail time unless you could prove that it was attacking. Or, as a Park DeerCop told me, if you shoot one of "my" bears, you better be missing an arm IMHO, Mr. Quinn was not wise to publicize his actions in this issue. SSS

[madman4570]

Dude----------chill bro(no, I am saying to each their own)???
However, let me say-------especially in the dog (probably got loose) I am EXTREMELY hesitant in SHOOTING one.

Hey,a fox/skunk/coon/bat etc-----sure!
A dog-----lets put it this way(other than several I had to have put down because of OLD/EXTREME PAIN/CANNOT BE FIXED
I have NEVER shot a dog!
And, you know what(my dogs, I am too soft---I could not,I would have a Vet come up here and give em a shot while I held them)
Couldn't do it anymore brother!

What I am saying is (did he/her TRY to get it to scoot)????Other than shout at it.
My Aunt (83)has a bull whip.(in her car and on her porch)and can still "whip it good".

I just think sometimes people act too quickly! (everyone has to make their own decisions)

It is my intention normally,I like to think of myself protecting myself(by that I mean,not the I got a gun in my pants so-----)
I think of it like I am a good person----but one not to be screwed with(no gun/just me)most people can sense this stuff.
I feel a dog owner should protect his dog-----not vise versa.
Now,I am not saying I have some type death wish but I am not paranoid either about some dudes messing with me(in and around my surrounding area)
I am not saying if I/we go on a trip and say stay at a Hotel/Motel etc.I don't have something/or while at home I am sleeping(I need something quick etc.)

But, generally speaking(though it can happen)I am not the type person worrying about me having a gun(at the local Mall)
Sure,it can happen(can get hit by lightning too)

I think it is mostly your image(people size people up/they decide yes/no if they want to screw with someone)

I am just saying right now if my wife is outside and a dog(which appears??? not rabid)is barking growling at her(I am not going to shoot it)First,I will not probably even have a gun out.I will come out of the house,probably grab my grandfathers hickory cane that is on our wall and yell at it.I will go after it----if it keeps coming I will wack it.
If it absolutely then is intent on getting us----then ???????????

Dogs(unless sick)99% of the time----off their property(will surrender)they will flee if you take control.

I just think sometimes people have to man up and not gun up! (guess if you can't pick up a cane/stick/bat/ball/etc.then well ?????) I guess for them:lol:

Good grief

JMHO


Honey, what did you do today???? (oh,nothing dear just shot a dog that growled at me on the log road while walking?????


Can't live forever-----don't worry,take a chance and let the poor kids loose pet go!
I'd be yelling at the old gal(kick it/wack it) (providing she was a good mother)

[Ji in Hawaii]

If my dog got loose and went on to private property and tried to attack someone especially a senior citizen or a child I'd shoot it myself.
Aggressive behavior towards a dog can provoke it to attack, I've seen it happen. Fortunately we don't have rabies here in the islands but that's another risk not worth taking besides the other nasty infections even a single bite can cause.
On average 5 people a year are killed by sharks, 30 by dogs.
I support Jeff's decision, just my 2 cents given out free of charge (what a deal!).

[Cliff]

Golly! Post went from a failure on a gun to ethics of putting down a dog. I would like to mention a possible cause of the fun failure. Jeff is known to shoot left handed. Most guns are built for right handed shooters. Just Saying

[pwl44m]

I've noticed the thread drift/avalanche and it certainly was not My intention. I was merely reporting what I read- as Sgt Friday always said "just the facts Mam just the facts".
We've been through this Dog thing more than once and pretty much know where everyone stands so lets get back to the failure of the Gun in mention. Please ! if U want to do a Dog thread then start one.
What happened with the Gun, I'm sure We will find out when the Factory gets done with it's investigation.
Perry
Btw- if U go to Gunblast U can "read all about it".

[Ji in Hawaii]

The PMR-30 concept has intrigued me but the high use of plastics gave me a pause. It does not look like glass reinforced nylon or other such modern composite but more like plain old ABS plastic on that slide. I have seen videos of this gun in full auto, scary amazing and able to take the abuse at full auto. Interested to hear Kel-tecs verdict on cause.
IMMHO that slide cover should be made of aluminum or even stamped steel instead of plastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6GxFws8B7k

[madman4570]

ya, sorry guys let my emotions get a little into this thread. It is just that I truly love the dog species and will do about anything "not" to shoot a dog,including calling Dog Control before shooting one(even if we have to stay in the house an hour or two(if that dog does not leave by my attempts). I do have rubber slugs (so, last resort/before lead-----??????????)

Sorry! (no disrespect meant)

[AJMD429]

I would like to mention a possible cause of the fun failure.

The 'fun' failed due to the thread-drift. . .

We've hammered out (without a consensus) the 'dog' issue before, so I'll stick to the 'gun' (but guns are 'fun' too) issue. I like the concept, but if I'd been the engineer of it, it would have been heavier, with bunches of steel. (Of course, it would also have blown up anyway, because I'm not an engineer, and when it blew up, I'd have got a chunk of sharp, high-momentum, hardened steel in my brain instead of a light weight chunk of plastic scratching my skin.) Other than that, mine would have worked better...

[pwl44m]

Granted Steel might have survived better but thats not the issue. Why did it fail in the first place ? Was it Ammo or Gun ? My thinking is that Guns don't just Blow up. This goes along with someone elses thread about accuracy, To My way of thinking- Safety and Accuracy are in the "chamber" and "barrel", something happened within or without one of the two.
It reminds Me of a Friend several years ago that had bought an old Military rifle for Hunting and when He fired it it blew up. To what extent I don't know but You couldn't get Him to buy another. His was probably obstruction or wrong Ammo. What does this have to do with thread U say, just this. People are already saying "dang, and I was thinking about getting one of those (PM30) We will just have to wait till the verdict is in to find out what really happened if even then. For instance "why did it take a 3rd round,where did those first 2 go if at all".
Don't mind Me, My Wife watches too much CSI
Perry

[2ndovc]

ya, sorry guys let my emotions get a little into this thread. It is just that I truly love the dog species and will do about anything "not" to shoot a dog,including calling Dog Control before shooting one(even if we have to stay in the house an hour or two(if that dog does not leave by my attempts). I do have rubber slugs (so, last resort/before lead-----??????????)

Sorry! (no disrespect meant)

You're not alone. Last thing in the world I would want to do is shoot a dog. I've shot one dog in my 44+ years. He was abandoned by his previous owners and took him home. I found out later that he bit my Ex twice. She didn't tell me because she knew what I would do.
A few days later he took off for "Points Unknown". I thought Heck with you and figured that would be the last I'd see of him.
Half hour later I hear the ANCIENT Quarter Horse next door fighting off this @#$% Dog. I grabbed my '06 and headed off.
Rotten dog had chased it out of it's pasture and still biting and ripping at the poor old horse.
I was throwing rocks, kicking and swinging at the dog and he was still chasing this old horse toward the road.
I went back to my truck, pulled my rifle and put one in his chest.
That was one of the most awful things I ever had to do.

If one of my dogs gets loose I would hope that whoever they come across has a little compassion. But if they're hurting someone then all bets are off. Not that they ever would.

I was attacked by a German Sheppard when I was about ten. Still have the scars. Didn't like dogs until my EX talked me into getting
a Lab when I was in my late 20's. Have three - four dogs at any given time now and can't stand to think of life
without one!


Back to the PMR. I thought they were cool but was really concerned about all that plastic.

jb

[Old Ironsights]

Sometimes AN ANIMAL needs to be put down.

It can be O'l Yeller, Puss, Blue or Wilbur.

SOME ANIMALS JUST NEED TO BE PUT DOWN.

This simple FACT helped me "convert" a generally anti-gun Jewish friend into a Constitutional (neither "pro" or "anti", but "as One Chooses") Jew. (It helped that I can argue Jewish Law too...)

Anyway, he had to shoot his dog. In her old age she had become unreliable around children & strangers and had shown inappropriate agression, so she needed to be put down.

Couple Jewish Frugality with "protect the children" Mishna and he asked me for a "solution".

He had the intellectual/philosophical honesty to learn enough gun handling skills to make me comfortable enough to loan him the gun to use as he took the responsibility for the unpredictibility of his dog...

I loved Lady too... but she needed to be put down...

[olyinaz]

Are you really criticizing a person for shooting a stray dog that was threatening an elderly member of their family?

Do you reckon that maybe if'n he'd just let the critter take a bite of the old bird that maybe it'd settle down and move on, real peaceable like?

I'm not familiar with other parts of the country, but around here, even in the sticks, if the word got out you shot a dog, you would be facing jail time unless you could prove that it was attacking. Or, as a Park DeerCop told me, if you shoot one of "my" bears, you better be missing an arm IMHO, Mr. Quinn was not wise to publicize his actions in this issue. SSS

Probably not where he lives, THANK GOD. In rural Minnesota where I grew up any stray dog was a led magnet. Wouldn't no one give you any guff for shooting one and many of us have done so. In Arizona where I've lived for 26 years now I'll shoot a dog any day I feel it necessary and not worry about the law here either. And THANK GOD while I'm at it that there's still some places in this fast falling country where I can stand to hang my hat.

Oly

[rhead]

Are you really criticizing a person for shooting a stray dog that was threatening an elderly member of their family?

Do you reckon that maybe if'n he'd just let the critter take a bite of the old bird that maybe it'd settle down and move on, real peaceable like?

I'm not familiar with other parts of the country, but around here, even in the sticks, if the word got out you shot a dog, you would be facing jail time unless you could prove that it was attacking. Or, as a Park DeerCop told me, if you shoot one of "my" bears, you better be missing an arm IMHO, Mr. Quinn was not wise to publicize his actions in this issue. SSS

In a lot of other parts of the country if your dog is loose and on some elses property and gets caught there. you would be the one facing the jail time. You are resposible for their actions.

[dennie]

I must have missed something, I thought this was about a gun.
dennie

[Borregos]

Lots of threads go off on a tangent but usually return to the subject in hand

[olyinaz]

I think the PMR-30 is an excellent gun with which to shoot aggressive stray dogs! When it works...

Oly

[Tycer]

Dogs again?


You guys.....

[Blaine]

Dogs again?


You guys.....

Stop hounding us

[AJMD429]

Dogs again?

You guys.....

[awp101]

I must have missed something, I thought this was about a gun.
dennie

[dennie]

OK, now back to the original post. Uh, what was it again?
dennie

[Blaine]

OK, now back to the original post. Uh, what was it again?
dennie

Ticketing speeding dogs in Hamilton?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I'm curious as to how or what degree of "catastorphic" that photo reflects. Is it "Dang, I broke the gun" catastrophic, or "Holy Cr*p, I coulda died" catastrophic?

Looks like something jammed and a piece of plastic broke off. Does it still function?

Appearances can be deceiving. I don't own a PMR-30, and Mr. Quinn likely knows more about the rest of the story than this reader.

I'll be interested to see the report.

Does that mean he was shooting and the third round didn't go off? He then cleared it and the next round OBD-ed.

Or, does it mean the second round OBD-ed which prevented the third round from firing/chambering/feeding?

On the dog issue, those of you that have never lived on a farm where your very existence can be threatened by stray dogs will never understand this concept of eradicating feral animals.

It’s no different than the feral hog problem. These wild hogs all came from domestic stock.

BTW, I'm a dog owner. But, my dogs know better.

[AJMD429]

On the dog issue, those of you that have never lived on a farm where your very existence can be threatened by stray dogs will never understand this concept of eradicating feral animals.

It’s no different than the feral hog problem. These wild hogs all came from domestic stock.

Yep. I'd never shoot someone's pet piggie, even if it just escaped onto my property a time or two, unless somehow it was literally endangering someone's life and just had to be stopped immediately with a bullet. OTOH, a feral animal that needs eliminated I'll deal with whatever is most humane and efficient. I may not have two hours to play catch-the-feral-dog and be late for work, but I will have time to humanely deal with it otherwise.

[Rusty]

Steve, from what I read the .22 mag malfunctioned and Jeff had to use a back up to finish it off.

I'm with you on farm life. Anything with 2 or 4 legs that poses a danger to my stock will get no mercy from the land owner.

The cattle industry began in Florida in 1521 when Cortez brought cows and horses to La Florida. Florida was the last state in the union to pass fence laws and it's still legal to shoot cattle rustlers here.

[Griff]

If my dog got loose and went on to private property and tried to attack someone especially a senior citizen or a child I'd shoot it myself.
Aggressive behavior towards a dog can provoke it to attack, I've seen it happen. Fortunately we don't have rabies here in the islands but that's another risk not worth taking besides the other nasty infections even a single bite can cause.
On average 5 people a year are killed by sharks, 30 by dogs.
I support Jeff's decision, just my 2 cents given out free of charge (what a deal!).

Agreed. Period.

Not a good thing about the gun.

[mohavesam]

I'm still wondering about the facts of the OP. I know the Quinns don't write reports on "failures" or write bad reviews on anything, but I'd like to read more detail on the PMR breakage. Hopefully Kel-Tec will update the interested owners... ?

I have one, and will tell anyone it is a fine pistol! It absolutely re-defines the "kit gun" concept and it goes canoeing and hiking everywhere.

[Tycer]

I'm still wondering about the facts of the OP. I know the Quinns don't write reports on "failures" or write bad reviews on anything, but I'd like to read more detail on the PMR breakage. Hopefully Kel-Tec will update the interested owners... ?

I have one, and will tell anyone it is a fine pistol! It absolutely re-defines the "kit gun" concept and it goes canoeing and hiking everywhere.

CHECK OUT THE KTOG LINKS I POSTED EARLIER. This is not a one time event and seems to be one ammo and KT seems to have fixed the problem.

[Ysabel Kid]

OUCH! That could have been painful!