Practicing with Air Rifles

[AJMD429]

Interesting article here - http://www.pyramydair.com/article/The_a ... ne_2009/63

I'd never heard of the "artillery hold". I always just held my air rifle like a regular gun, mostly trying to just 'be steady' and concentrate on sight-picture and trigger-pull.

According to this guy, I should not 'snug' the gun or try to confine it, yet that's NOT the way I shot the Garand which I was using the air rifle to 'practice' for (the apartment manager would not have liked my firing the Garand in my apartment, even though it was a basement one... ).

[Blaine]

I don't use a real tight hold on the forearm, but, I'm not sure I buy off on this whole procedure.

[Canuck Bob]

I'm no expert but I think this method is for the more powerful spring guns which twang and vibrate a bunch. I chose a mid-power air rifle because i wanted handling more like my rifles. I tried this but don't see much of a difference with my air rifle.

[Bill in Oregon]

My springers always shoot better the more lightly I hold them -- whether offhand or benched. A gentle caress -- the artillery hold -- lets them do their vibration thing consistently.

[earlmck]

Hmmm.... interesting. But I'm with AJ and Bob: it's not relevant to me because I use the air rifle to practice off-hand shooting so it has to perform when held the same way I hold my cartridge rifles. Near as I can tell, mine puts them right where the sights were looking when the trigger broke.

[earlmck]

Ah ha! This fellow is on to something, I'll bet. I went out and shot my air rifle that puts 'em where the sights are looking no matter how I hold it. Well, I had noticed that mine kind of rattles after I shoot. Sure enough, now that I was paying attention I see that it is built to release the barrel and receiver so it floats when you fire, like an artillery piece. So that's why I never noticed any penalty for holding the air rifle firmly: my air rifle (and pistol) do the "artillery hold" thing without me doing anything special.

I'm not an air rifle connoisseur, had the same ones (Feinwerkbau) for close on 40 years without needing to look at anything else. I'd guess a number of air rifles are made in this "artillery style" for exactly the reason the fellow in the video was talking about?

[Blaine]

I guess the part I can't wrap my head around, is that the gun prolly recoils the same way every time, so wouldn't it fire into the same POI every time if you hold it the same way every time? Kind of like changing your grip on a handgun.

[AJMD429]

I'm not an air rifle connoisseur, had the same ones (Feinwerkbau) for close on 40 years without needing to look at anything else. I'd guess a number of air rifles are made in this "artillery style" for exactly the reason the fellow in the video was talking about?

I'd like to see pics of that - how on earth do they design it to have free-recoil like that...???

It does seem like if the guy holding the gun has to hold it 'loose' so it recoils just the same each shot, that there would STILL be some variables from stock-contact and so on, so unless the gun were on a greased benchrest and no outside influences at all, it seems the shooter would be influencing POI anyway.

[JB]

The "artillery hold" is well known amoung spring powered airgun shooters. It's normally the only way to get good accuracy out of the higher powered spring guns. The magnum airgun are super sensitive to the way their held.

[deafrn]

I'm no expert but I think this method is for the more powerful spring guns which twang and vibrate a bunch. I chose a mid-power air rifle because i wanted handling more like my rifles. I tried this but don't see much of a difference with my air rifle.

This.

My HW30S doesn't do any better with the "artillery hold" than when using the same hold I would use with nearly any rifle, but then the 30 is known as a mild, low-powered springer (although my particular example still lets me know it is a spring-powered air gun).

Back when I was using air guns on a regular basis, I ran into POI changes with lubrication, temperature/humidity, pellet uniformity and whatnot, which kept me from moving up to the "magnum" airguns of the time... and I couldn't afford both a Feinwerkbau AND a family simultaneously.

"d"

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl your Feinwerkbau was for decades the Cadillac of the airgun world, and some models did indeed come with a "recoilless" action. Wonderful machines.

[JB]

Earl your Feinwerkbau was for decades the Cadillac of the airgun world, and some models did indeed come with a "recoilless" action. Wonderful machines.

Feinwerkbau still builds some of the top level match air rifles and handguns. I have a sporter Finewerkbau 124D that I've owned for over 30 years that still shoots fantastic.

Here's a couple Feinwerkbau pistols I owned, but finally let go about a year ago.

[FLINT]

yes, as others have said - its just the spring powered rifles that are so hold sensitive - they are usually the break barrel ones - though some models have a side lever.

any of the pneumatic (pump or precharged) or co2 guns are not as sensitive

[earlmck]

I'd like to see pics of that - how on earth do they design it to have free-recoil like that...???

Here ya' go, AJ. Cocked on the left, fired position on the right.

CockedandFiredComparisons.jpg

Here's the rifle -- Feinwerkbau 300

Feinwerkbau300.jpg

And the pistol -- Feinwerkbau 65

Feinwerkbau65.jpg

The rifle recoils about 5/16" and the pistol about 1/4" upon firing. If you tip them down they return to battery with a "clunk"; if you keep them tipped up then they return to battery upon cocking.

I hadn't really considered them as a part of my "levergun" population, but they do have those nice long levers on them, albeit on the side. And I'd never thought of them as among my "favorites" but I really should since they get more "shooting" than any my other levers on a year-around basis. Very regularly I will take a break from some project or "honey do" and go put 20 rounds through the rifle. The pistol isn't getting much use anymore because the right shoulder doesn't like holding something straight out, and this pistol is not built to be shot left-handed.

[AJMD429]

Amazing stuff. Thanks for posting!

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, you never cease to amaze me. A Feinwerkbau rifle and a pistol!

We need the clinking beer mugs emoticon, moderators!

[stretch]

An old friend of mine, who was once the New York State Rifle Champion back
before I was born, gave me some advice when I first started shooting. He said
always to have a "dead" left hand - never grip the forearm with the left hand,
it's only there as a vertical support. Keep the left hand as far back as one can,
and the elbow vertically underneath the forearm.

I shoot my air rifle that way, and if I do my part, it's VERY accurate. I also shoot
regular rifles that way - "dead" hand and elbow DIRECTLY underneath the forearm,
regardless of the position. It works!

With the right hand, I pull the rifle into the shoulder hard, and then relax it a bit.
(For air rifle - quite a bit!) It took me a long time to master that with the air rifle, and
in truth I almost sold the thing more than once. On a good day, I can now hold
5-shot dime sized groups with my RWS 48 at 35 yards from a sitting position.
(WE won't talk about the bad days, now will we? ) In my opinion, getting
good with a "springer" will greatly improve one's conventional rifle work. The reverse
is not always true.

Interestin' video.

-Stretch

[earlmck]

Earl your Feinwerkbau was for decades the Cadillac of the airgun world, and some models did indeed come with a "recoilless" action. Wonderful machines.

We need the clinking beer mugs emoticon, moderators!

I'll drink to that!

So Bill -- you turn out to be an airgun connoisseur! Who'd a thunk it?

So I have these two "Cadillacs", almost the only guns I've bought "New In Box". And the box for these Caddys is danged ole Styrofoam!

But from the number of totally maintenance free shots they've made over the past 40 years (though they were in storage for about 10 of those), I'd say you're right about them.

[TomD]

I had an F 300s back in the 70s, sold it about 10 years ago. Off a rest, it will put every shot through the same hole at 10 mm, I mean the same hole, not the same group. With iron sights. The recoil compensation moves the upper receiver and barrel back with the same energy as the smaller piston.

The thing about the discussed hold was his emphasis about not really even shouldering the rifle. That I would have to try. There is nothing new about a light "weak hand", but merely balancing the rifle at a pivot point, and not controlling the butt, and pulling the trigger as if firing a pistol, I am not signed up for that yet.

Being Canada I have put hundreds of thousands of rounds through air rifles. Until they classed them as firearms, and I just switched to the big guns. See how effective gun control is!

Anyway, he is talking about holding the guns, not "shooting" them. every situation described is a rested position. I don't really see why he didn't just shoot them off the rest. But if you want to shoot the gun from a position, then you need a position, and I never had a problem shooting from positions with spring guns. A lot of modern shooters have never shot a rifle unsupported, and they can only shoot off sticks or pods in the field. But if you can shoot, not sure I would be into his method. I certainly do not see it as the answer for other firearms.