The F4 Phantom Crew Chief.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:45 pm

To all the crew chiefs out there, the first picture is me by one that i worked on.
Neat aircraft and great job.

I`ll never forget and proud of those that still serve.

More great pics of a great plane and men that took care of it.

I see they have roofs over the planes now days , we worked in the 120 degree sun.

444tsgt · Post by **444tsgt** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:01 pm

Phantom Phixers!

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:16 pm

Wonder if you and me old Dad worked on the same planes Pitchy? 366th TFW Danang 72-73. "The Gunfighters"

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:55 pm

Days long gone by, but never to leave our hearts.

Welcome Home, Pitchy.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:06 pm

Oh Heavens, that brings back memories.

Worked on them as an electronic warfare troop starting in the '80's. D's and E's and the random C.

Maybe that's why I like Glocks too. Not especially beautiful, but super solid and very functional.

Got a spectacular head phantom bite one time from an under-the-fuselage drain tube not trimmed completely. Stitches *and* staples.

Sat on the wing pulling a side panel one early morning and could see, just barely the top of the smoke plume when Challenger exploded.

Watched another take off one morning with a compressor stall barely hundred foot off the ground. Pickled his tanks and racks and was able to bring it back around.

Maintenance costs finished them. They tried for a re-engine to get ride of the smoke trail (classic F-4 recognition) but the F-16 was the new bird.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:23 pm

Pitchey, I couldn't read the tail letters. Where was this taken?

Here's one that ended it's life, or nearly so, after being a "plane on a stick". I found it shoved off the tarmac at the old George AFB.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:45 pm

Thanks guys, the plane i posted that worked on was at Luke AFB .
I was staitioned there my whole time in the AF.

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:58 pm

one of my Navy Seabee pals, long before he became a Navy Seabee ......

he was an Air Force kinda guy, based in Thailand, flew F-4's over Vietnam. Got a DSC or two as I recall. Had lots of praise for his crew chief.

Cheers,

Carl

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:14 pm

Dang, Pitchy. I'll bet that beard got kinda' itchy in that 120 degree Arizona heat.

I was never around the Phantom. Spent a little time on one of those grey floaty things that was packing around A4's and F8's (and Spads on the first cruise! ((prop job for you youngsters)). So a Phantom was one of those new-fangled things to us fellers.

Here's a salute to all the guys that kept those things flying. And flying, and flying, and flying.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:12 pm

Phantoms are still flying, just not for us.

As of 2008 the Turks still had Phantoms in the air and the Germans had till a few years before.

We'd see 2 or 4 Phantoms fly in to our field to tangle with our 16s or transiting somewhere else, the kids would always be like "What IS that....?"

My replies would not pass the filter here, but they were sufficiently impressed by the depth, breadth and length of my vocal, multilingual and highly imaginative respects paid in a verbally foulmouthed manner they knew it was worth looking at twice.

jshinal · Post by **jshinal** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:28 pm

A shame I can't even see them at the airshows any more. I got to see a pair launch up close many years ago at Seymour Johnson, and they lit the burners simultaneously. Quite a bit of thunder from four afterburners.

The only one I ever liked better was the only F-105 I ever saw - last of the Wild Weasels. It had a 'hard' burner light-off that made a huge bass BANG that reverberated everywhere.

Was a radio change-out in a Phantom as awful as I've heard ? Something about having to pull the seats to get at them ?

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:52 pm

Way cool...
Thanks for sharing Pitchy!!

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:33 pm

Pitchy did you ever get sucked in?

also I hear they saw action in Desert Storm.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:17 am

Math teacher in high school was a Phantom crewchief in the ANG.

She said it involved pulling the rear-seater's seat forward at an angle, IIRC and hanging head down with a ratchet to unbolt the battery, grabbing handles and having someone else basically yank you out. She said it was the ultimate head rush from the blood all flowing to your head.

That's 18 years ago so I may be a little off, but I remember her talking about it.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:38 am

Some Jarhead flew 600 sorties over vietnam in one. They were a tough piece of equipment. Had to be if they had College Boys flying them.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:28 am

Thank you for your service Pitchy. Always remember there were people that depended on you and they're walking around today because of the great job you did then.

I think I heard a description of an F-4 one time. The result of the theory that if you strap enough horsepower on it, even a brick can fly.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:15 am

Rusty your right

dang thing shouldn`t fly.
Yep i`ve changed a battery or two, that`s why i`m so dern crazy to this day.

Never got sucked in a intake but sure climbed in and took a nap a lot of times

Never got to fly in one but was on weekend duty once and got to go on a high speed taxi check.
Got to taxi it too the end of the runway then the pilot held the brakes and put both engines in afterburner

When he let er go i got to experiance that lots of horse power feeling and away we went.
Down the runway we went at very high speed, was enjoying things pretty good until he pulled the chute and the nose of the plane started wandering around

that`s where i began my Christian walk, quit drinking and became a new man.

We didn`t crash thank God and i got to drive back and park the thing

Weird thing, ya just roll along and when ya need to go a little faster ya give the throttles a quick burst, whoooosh and ya pick up speed.
And ya gotta steer the dang thing with your feet while working the brakes at the same time.

I had a lot more respect fer them pilots after that, until of course they came back and had puked in the cockpit

but they were nice enough to buy us a case of beer for that.
All in all it was a great job and would love to do it again, thanks

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:25 am

Closest I got to working on Phantoms was testing the Rolls-Royce Spey engines they put in the ones used by the RAF

crs · Post by **crs** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:46 am

Those Phantoms are a lot larger up close and personal than they appear in pictures.

One quiet morning some years ago, while stalking deer in northeast Texas, two of them on a training flight from a nearby airbase gave me quite a start. They were down on the deck and supersonic, and flew right over me, so I sensed their presence and saw them before hearing them roar past.

My first thought was what it would be like to be surprised like that by a napalm run!

That was a memorable end of that morning deer hunt, but every bit as exciting as seeing a big buck.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:05 am

These will get ones attention too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQvObtxH2EY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixd1wvO ... =endscreen

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:43 am

Pitchy,

Man did you bring back the memories on this thread! I opened this one up when I saw the title and after I read you had been stationed at Luke I had to reply.
I started my career at Luke on F-16's right after the Phantom's had left. I worked on that flightline without shelter for 5 1/2 years and am sure in later years I will have skin cancer from being that close to the sun. All us newbys were told how it was much cooler on the flightline with the F-16's since the exhaust was not pointed down at the ramp like it was with the F-4's. I didn't buy it then and think anybody who works out there now with shelters does not get full credit for working on the flightline in Arizona.
I actually worked on "G" model Phantom's at Spangdahlem in West Germany. Do you remember the AR people doing the suck and blow checks on the flight controls? So many stories from my time in Germany and my career and I thank you for this thread and bringing them back for a bit.

Thomas

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:02 pm

Yes it brings back good memories, almost got misty watching that second U-Tube video.
I was there when Prez Ford came and they brought the F-16 in, pretty impresive to watch that bird fly straight up in the air.

Nice to have served with ya pard.

264 Win Mag · Post by **264 Win Mag** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:36 pm

Thanks for your service Pitchy. You served during a time when the military was not as well regarded as it was during most of my time. What unit were you in at Luke? I was in the 311th down at the very end of the flightline by the control tower.

Thomas

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:51 pm

264 Win Mag wrote:Thanks for your service Pitchy. You served during a time when the military was not as well regarded as it was during most of my time. What unit were you in at Luke? I was in the 311th down at the very end of the flightline by the control tower.

Thomas

I was in Echo section , same location.
Used to park my restored 54 Chevy in the tower parking lot, worked swings and then graveyard shifts.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:25 pm

Said car.

Beaker · Post by **Beaker** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:57 pm

I have fond memories now of being in high school and junior college out driving around in the country and being buzzed by F-4's and scaring the stuff out of me when they were doing there bombing runs and evasive manuvers at the nearby Smoky Hill Bombing range here in central Kansas.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:57 pm

jshinal wrote:A shame I can't even see them at the airshows any more. I got to see a pair launch up close many years ago at Seymour Johnson, and they lit the burners simultaneously. Quite a bit of thunder from four afterburners.

The only one I ever liked better was the only F-105 I ever saw - last of the Wild Weasels. It had a 'hard' burner light-off that made a huge bass BANG that reverberated everywhere.

Was a radio change-out in a Phantom as awful as I've heard ? Something about having to pull the seats to get at them ?

When the Weasles came back to the states, they were stationed at George AFB. The darned things needed every inch of runway on hot days, at that Altitude. One didn't make it. The pilot was the squadron commander.

gak · Post by **gak** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:51 am

First of all, great to see another airplane thread - overdue! I miss the long ones we had going a year or so ago! As a Air Force brat we pre-dated the F4 in our assignments, "my era" more the 100/101/102/104/105/106 timeframe, dad retiring as the F4 was coming on line. But I always thought the F4 was a cool 'craft.

264 Win Mag wrote:Pitchy,

I started my career at Luke on F-16's right after the Phantom's had left. I worked on that flightline without shelter for 5 1/2 years and am sure in later years I will have skin cancer from being that close to the sun. All us newbys were told how it was much cooler on the flightline with the F-16's since the exhaust was not pointed down at the ramp like it was with the F-4's. I didn't buy it then and think anybody who works out there now with shelters does not get full credit for working on the flightline in Arizona.

I've always been amazed anyone ever thought that technicians
working unprotected in a harsh environment was a good idea--either for them, productivity or the planes "health" (electronics especially). I used to visit a transmission shop here in Phoenix where they had several traditional lifts outdoors but worse yet, uncovered--not even nursery screening! These guys were out there in 150+ degrees (effective ambient amongst all that metal) yanking trannies! I used to find these poor b------- half dead wrenching away out there! Amazing. Caused me to rethink my loyalty as a customer to the place!
Bless you and your compadres' service--especially under those conditions!

+1 keep a watch on the at skin cancer susceptibility! Not to be trifled with. Poster child here with many basal/squamous surgeries from my forty-five years in the desert.

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:34 am

Wow, you guys are causing me to knock the dust off a lot of old memories.

For those unfamiliar, the rhino had no self-start capability (actually it does, I'll get to that in a minute) but normally the start up electrical power came from what we called the -60 unit. It's a huge, 5' wide and high and about 8' long power cart- three phase AC and 28VDC that also provides bleed air. What it is, is a small turbine engine on a trailer. Oh, and there's a red line along the center. A lot of times I had to warn new troops not to stand along that red line because if they fan blades separate, that's where the fragments come through. You would always know when maintenance was starting up on the flight line when you heard the -60 units spooling up.

It was always a thrill for me (watching, not participating!) seeing the crew chiefs do a cart start. That's the alternate way of starting, I was told it was a black powder cartridge, which is hard to believe knowing how much cleanup is required. Regardless, you would see a crew chief head under the aircraft, huge billows of smoke (an amazing amount) and then hear an engine starting. Crew chief would emerge, much, much darker and dirtier then when they went underneath.

My group would do end of taxiway checks with 'squirt boxes', radar simulators that would simulate various threats such as AAA (anti-aircraft) or SAM (surface to air missile) threats. We would do just before the aircraft launched out at the end of runway where the last of safety pins got pulled. I always knew my feet would be hurting after walking around on the concrete all morning.

Best position of that crew I enjoyed doing was going under the aircraft. To connect up a ground headset to talk to the aircrew, the connector is inside the left landing gear wheel well. You have to approach the aircraft *behind* the intake and duck underneath. The F-4 when the engine is running is amazing. Remember when you were at a parade and the bass drum guy walks by and you can feel that thump, thump, thump in your chest? It's the same under an F-4, only continuous.

As an aside, I was in on a couple of F-16 conversions. As one crew chief said, there's something unnatural about an aircraft running at idle where it's louder at the intake than at the exhaust. The F-16 forward of that vacuum cleaner intake has a screech that just makes your back teeth hurt. Next time you see some them on taxi, listen. It's two separate components, from the rear it's a roar and from the front that horrendous screech.

All of my electronic warfare and countermeasures gear was an afterthought. We had parts at the wingtips, under wing panels, up on the backbone out on the tail and up by both seats. Wiring bundles connecting all the boxes, so you can imagine how the splices reacted to all that vibration.

I *still* remember all the pins and points to check on the Martin Baker ejection seat to make sure it's safe.

In my years active duty, we only lost one aircrew. Never did hear what happened, it was a night time flying exercise and they drove into the ground.

We were a wing, which was three squadrons of aircraft, twenty some each. That was back before the Air Force 'downsized' by reducing squadron numbers. We did all right because twice we had a 100% FMC (fully mission capable) rate, no planes and phase (inspection) and everyone on the flight line ready to go. Commander gave us extended weekends for that.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:37 am

I only seen a remote start up twice as a training exercise.
Here`s a video of a normal start up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbMDqHez ... ults_video

Couldn`t find a video of a remote start.

Target afixiation, spelled wrong i`m sure, was when a pilot didn`t pull up in time consentrating on the target to hard.
We lost a couple that way, bad feeling .

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:35 am

The mention of pinning the Martin Baker sure brought back some memories for me as well. I think I could still pin one with my eyes closed all these years later. You do something that many times it never goes away.

The Martin Baker was a good seat, but I did see two "malfunctions". In one a maintenance type was doing something, never found out what, and was leaning into the front cockpit. The seat went off. He almost made it out, but lost the right side of his head. The seat hit an I beam above and bent it considerably.

The other was flat weird. While heading toward the runway, the drogue gun, on the rear seat went off dragging the drogue shoot thru the canopy. The pilot shut down the aircraft and called in. We managed to get the pilot out without issue. But the poor backseater, a German trainee, was stuck for a bit.

Not it was summer and the ambient temp. was over 100°f. In the end, they got a hold of Martin Baker and they eventually figured out that if we cut the canopy we could remove the "plastic" then pin the seat. The egress techs weren't about to get near that seat, and I and another fireman ended up doing it.

The worst part was that, initally, the poor German pilot forgot how to speak english. Between my lousy german and his finally calming down we were able to talk. I spent the better part of an hour sitting on the left intake in full silvers (I doubt they would have done much good had the seat decided to go). I thing that between he and I, we drank enough water to fill the base pool when it was all said and done.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:34 pm

Hey Mr P, just the other day watched a tv docu on this plane and the famous Nam pilot???

What an aircraft!

They have one in a local air museum.

Was this the craft where the whole cockpit ejected from the aircraft?

Nath.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:42 pm

Was this the craft where the whole cockpit ejected from the aircraft?

No, individual ejection seats.

We had a guy eject himself out of a Phantom in a hanger one night, killed him sure enough.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:32 pm

I believe it was the F-111 that ejected the entire cockpit.

Had a cousin that had a compressor stall in his F-4 and ended up in San Francisco Bay

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:37 pm

Pitchy wrote:
Was this the craft where the whole cockpit ejected from the aircraft?

No, individual ejection seats.

We had a guy eject himself out of a Phantom in a hanger one night, killed him sure enough.

Oouch!

F111! Thats the one.

Pitchy, I always wondered why the large panel by the intakes??

N

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:47 pm

Pitchy, I always wondered why the large panel by the intakes??

They could fold deflecting air away from the intake if needed.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:50 pm

Pitchy wrote:
Pitchy, I always wondered why the large panel by the intakes??

They could fold deflecting air away from the intake if needed.

Oh right! Is that maybe when going supersonic?

N.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:16 pm

Nath wrote:
Pitchy wrote:
Pitchy, I always wondered why the large panel by the intakes??

They could fold deflecting air away from the intake if needed.
Oh right! Is that maybe when going supersonic?

N.

They put them on there to keep us crew chiefs from climbing in there for a nap, close them at night.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:58 pm

Pitchy wrote:
Nath wrote:
Pitchy wrote:
Pitchy, I always wondered why the large panel by the intakes??

They could fold deflecting air away from the intake if needed.
Oh right! Is that maybe when going supersonic?

N.
They put them on there to keep us crew chiefs from climbing in there for a nap, close them at night.

Oh, you mean sonic snoring

N.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:12 pm

Dave James · Post by **Dave James** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:33 pm

Don't care who fixed them or who flew them , but any one involved with the ZOOMIES!! Never bought a beer in my presence!! They saved my butt more than once

STAY ALERT! STAY ALIVE!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:20 pm

Pitchy, great photo of you and your F4 and also that photo of you and your classic restored Chevy! That young fellow standing by the Chevy is almost unrecognizable without a beard! Super thread. Thanks for posting this.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:37 pm

Thanks bro, it makes a person realize how young we were and the responsibility we had. Now that we`re old it really sinks in how young our men and woman are that are doing their duty and serving our country.
Hats off to everyone that served.

I sold that car for 450.00 bucks, just think what it would be worth now.
I miss my job in the AF and wish i`d stayed in longer, wonder if they have a spot for a 58 year old fanny burp.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:39 pm

Were the starting cartridges black powder or potassium permanganate (KMnO4)? Think I remember thats what they used on the B-57 and looking at the purple "smoke" on the cartridge start on the B-52 makes me think thats what it was. Was the "smoke" on the F-4 white or purpleish?

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:42 pm

Thunder50 wrote:Were the starting cartridges black powder or potassium permanganate (KMnO4)? Think I remember thats what they used on the B-57 and looking at the purple "smoke" on the cartridge start on the B-52 makes me think thats what it was. Was the "smoke" on the F-4 white or purpleish?

If your asking me 38 years ago is to long to remember

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:27 pm

It was white, and lots of it.

Looking back, yes it was amazing the things we did and the responsibilities. Making sure all the gear worked for the aircrew. Going over each bit of structure work to make sure the aircraft was safe to fly.

The point really got to me one day when I had to go to Supply to pick up some "special equipment". As I walked out carrying it to the shop I just realized I just signed for over a quarter of million dollars of classified gear. Got it back to the shop and secured, post haste.

Lot of good guys and gals out there working, right now, all around the world. Keep them in your hearts for what they do, they're carrying on the tradition we picked up and passed on.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:20 am

Another one i let slip away from the Luke days, a 70 Chev.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:26 am

Dave James wrote:Don't care who fixed them or who flew them , but any one involved with the ZOOMIES!! Never bought a beer in my presence!! They saved my butt more than once

STAY ALERT! STAY ALIVE!

I'm just betting you were 11B! Still the mantra at Harmony Church, Ft. Benning in 1986. Thank you all for your service and for those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

gak · Post by **gak** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:52 am

wecsoger wrote:.
Looking back, yes it was amazing the things we did and the responsibilities. Making sure all the gear worked for the aircrew. Going over each bit of structure work to make sure the aircraft was safe to fly.

How true. I've often thought this about so many of our servicemen and women. In my dad's case, what enormous responsibilities and accomplishments as a B-__ (you name it) pilot instructor in WWII and command pilot through the early Cold War, then in positions of critical administrative responsibility--in high places--thereafter during periods of unprecedented threat to our country and the free world--very much in the thick of it all. And I look at my life and it seems to pale by comparison, though those more objective have pointed out that I should be very proud of what are amazing accomplisments in their mind. I can vouche that I worked my tail off on hundreds of seemingly (especially now looking back) impossible assignments within my own context...and wonder "how on earth did I do that?!" - frequently running on adrenaline for what seemed to be weeks and months at a time without a break.

But to me, those of you who serviced and flew/operated the complex air-and other-craft and weapons systems, and engaged in other military service as support or in a direct combat or preparatory/deterrent capacity are all the greatest generation. Ordinary people becoming extraordinary men and women doing incredible things when it was needed most. Thanks to all of you!

F4 in front the famous "Itazuke Tower" at our Airbase in Japan, some time after we left. Our assignment ended when our wing of F-105s was shipped out to Yokota in June 1964, and eventually Thailand IIRC.

Prior to the wing of 105s we got in 1963, we had F-100s.as the "main mission. (also 101s, 102s etc). In addition to our own squadron, we regularly co-shared with our base(s)' squadron(s) in Korea. I believe this is from one of them. As an amateur afficianado, one of my favorite planes. I liked the 105s but was also sad to see the 100s go.

kasTX · Post by **kasTX** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:01 pm

Growing up in Reno, the National Guard's RF-4s (the High Rollers) were a part of everyday life. With the airport in the middle of the valley, if one was running up, everyone knew it. I have fond memories of drifting off to sleep in the summer with the windows open and the RF-4s going out. Most of the long time residents liked them, while the newer residents generally disliked them. They were scheduled to be replaced with F-16s, but instead, the mission was changed and the guard now has C-130s. The joke was, those pilots that didn't retire just bought smaller helmets and kept flying.

There was a big open house/party/farewell for the planes. Part of the festivities was one coming in from the south and doing a barrel roll that extended from the south end of town to the north. No 200-knot-below-10,000-feet restriction that day.

One of their more exciting moments involved a bird strike and hydraulic failure. The pilot was able to get it back to the airport, but the nosewheel collapsed and penetrated the floor under the pilot's seat. Somehow in this course of events the ejection seat activated, uncommanded and out of sequence, injuring the pilot severely. This was also a bit of a shock to the guy-in-back, who got a bit toasted by the front rocket motor on its way by. He then ejected more successfully. The plane slid off the runway, hoovering up rocks and dirt until the fire department shut it down. A friend of mine was a seat technician at the time, and gave me a tour of the facility and the damaged plane after the incident.

Some years later I worked at the airport and could stand near the runway and watch them take off. At night with afterburners, there were tongues of flame as long as the aircraft coming out the back. It was quite a sight. And the noise...