Unhappy with NRA National Firearms Museum

[Bill in Oregon]

I am posting this on several forums in order to get views from my fellow firearms enthusiasts, history lovers and hopefully NRA members:



I recently inquired of the staff at the NFM about details of the John Alden "Mayflower Gun," the Italian wheellock carbine believed to have been brought to Plimoth aboard the Mayflower. I was seeking dimensional details or descriptions to guide me as I make decisions about commissioning a firearm of similar size and function.
Here is what the museum wrote back:

"Mr. Powell:

Thank you for your inquiry to the National Firearms Museum.

While we appreciate your interest in the Mayflower gun, please know that it is one of the historic pieces in the museum collection that in order to retain our intellectual property rights, we cannot provide dimensional data for individuals to reproduce. Many museums have this policy.

The National Firearms Museum has from time to time offered reproductions of selected collection items and the Mayflower gun is an item that we may have produced under license in the future.

National Firearms Museum"

I have spent many hours working as a volunteer and as a paid editor for our local historical society. In fact, one of the things I did for the society was to measure and describe the more than 100 firearms in their collections. They were very happy to have the information to add to the original accession information.
Beyond the regional level, perhaps it is a common practice with museums and historical organizations to withhold details about artifacts, although I cannot imagine how the interest of history is served in this manner. It is like the handful of scholars who sat on the contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls for decades while the rest of Christendom awaited access.
As a descendent of Alden's fellow passengers John Howland and Elizabeth Tilley, and as a longtime NRA member I am dismayed to be denied access to such simple details as the overall length of the Alden wheellock, certainly among the most historic of all firearms in North America.
I would be most interested to hear others' thoughts on this topic.
Thank you.

[Hobie]

I think it is so much stuff.

[KirkD]

I see museums, especially government funded ones, as custodians of artifacts that are for the education and enjoyment of all people. To withhold information like that is wrong. I understand that they 'might' want to make a reproduction in the future for fund raising purposes, but they don't have the right to withhold historical data.

[gamekeeper]

Perhaps they mistook you for Franklin Mint!....

[Rusty]

That is nothing but wrong. All in hopes of making a buck.

[Sixgun]

In this country, money talks and nice guys walk. Its no longer about "doing the right thing".

I'd just take some nice detailed pictures and go from there.-------Sixgun

[Paladin]

I see museums, especially government funded ones, as custodians of artifacts that are for the education and enjoyment of all people. To withhold information like that is wrong. I understand that they 'might' want to make a reproduction in the future for fund raising purposes, but they don't have the right to withhold historical data.

+1

[Malamute]

I was also thinking some pictures would be able to give enough info to build a very close copy for a decent builder.

There may be other pictures, but I found this looking at their site,

http://www.nra.nationalfirearms.museum/ ... /mayflower

Do we know the bore size?

[AJMD429]

I understand that they 'might' want to make a reproduction in the future for fund raising purposes, but they don't have the right to withhold historical data.

Yep. And if they did make a reproduction of something but there were already others on the market, I'm sure they'd still sell tons of them, for the reason that people want to support the cause, and as long as they weren't poorly made vs. the competitors, people would even pay a bit of a premium for 'the cause' as well as the increased collectability factor of being an 'NRA' one.

[MrMurphy]

Nothing new.

I'm interested in medieval history, armor and weaponry and most museums will allow photos but don't like flash cameras (it can degrade the fabrics) or anything more than a 'here it is' pic. Getting closeups is near impossible, or opening glass cases, even when it's for historical purposes, especially a lot of guys who are armorers/blacksmiths making reproductions.


One time in Austria, the Graz Armory (still set up like the armory it was for the most part) had about forty of us, all historians/historically minded types, armorers/blacksmiths and similar, i.e not your average morons, and we were given a special 'closed museum' tour. With everyone wearing gloves, they let us handle EVERYTHING. Suits of armor were taken apart from displays, weapons came off racks, and thousands of pictures got taken. I got to handle a 300+ year old halberd (still sharp) to test the balance and swing, others put on actual pieces of surviving armor and got to see all the good bits (interior construction details you can't see from the outside) to make replicas.


Seems a bit silly that the musem can't tell you the VERY basics i.e "it's 34 inches long, weighs approximately 8lbs and the bore is XXX". That's enough to satisfy curiosity and is on most museum signs, but it's not 'specifics' like "the barrel is XX diameter at this end, XX at this end, the wood is this, the stock is XXX thick and XXX tall".

[awp101]

Their response is the leavings of a large farm animal.

Intellectual property rights? Sheesh...

[1894c]

I think it is so much stuff.

+1 ... on the STUFF

[Bill in Oregon]

Well, the National Firearms Museum staff may actually be listening to the arguments in favor of releasing details or of allowing a scholarly study of the Alden wheellock. I can think of no better way to honor the Pilgrim fathers at this time of year than for the NFM to consider re-examining its position on this historic firearm.

Malamute, I plan to derive measurements from the photos. Should end up being very close. A wonderful artisan in Poland has agreed to build the lock for me.

[awp101]

Well, the National Firearms Museum staff may actually be listening to the arguments in favor of releasing details or of allowing a scholarly study of the Alden wheellock.

Did they contact you with a change of heart?

[Old Ironsights]

Now do I not only despise them for their lack of balls in politics, You have given me something else to hate the Frenchman over.

[junkbug]

What do you expect from any organisation that is a mere 25 miles from Washington DC. Even the toxic spill clean-up worker in full HAZMAT gear can becom contaminated if he stays in the toxic cloud long enough.

Good luck with your wheel-lock recreation. Perhaps the NRA will perform a self de-con, and change their mind.

[Old Ironsights]

What do you expect from any organisation that is a mere 25 miles from Washington DC. Even the toxic spill clean-up worker in full HAZMAT gear can becom contaminated if he stays in the toxic cloud long enough.

Good luck with your wheel-lock recreation. Perhaps the NRA will perform a self de-con, and change their mind.

Only when the RNC does... Their "leadership" is cut of the same cloth.

All members of the CCCP - the Cocktail, Canape & Compromise Party

[natedontgo]

And your beloved Constitution ?? No compromises then/there to get enacted, eh ?>?>?<? Nate

[Old Ironsights]

And your beloved Constitution ?? No compromises then/there to get enacted, eh ?>?>?<? Nate

The people that made compromises at the enactment of the Constitution were the ones who wanted a no-holds-barred Big Government/Federal Constitution.

They were forced to accept the BoR just to get it passed... and have spent the last 200+ years trying to get around those irritating first 10 amendments...

NOW the only people who "compromise" are GIVING UP Rights not MANDATING them...

[natedontgo]

The"compromises" Virginia and the states to its' South accepted sure worked out well for them(from the damnyankees p.o.v.)Nate

[Old Ironsights]

The"compromises" Virginia and the states to its' South accepted sure worked out well for them(from the damnyankees p.o.v.)Nate

You mean the Unconstitutional Urban Federalist Takeover of Rural States?

Just wait. Might be happening again soon...