Spire point bullet in 30-30

[El Chivo]

One of my projects was to try the 110 grain spire point Barnes bullet in 30-30. I was glad to see it would leave a great deal of extra powder room compared to the standard 30-30 Barnes bullet, because the crimp groove is at the rear of the bullet, most of the bullet sticks out in front.

However it's too long to eject, or load from the magazine. So even if I single load, I can't get it out unless I fire it. So for hunting it's non-starter.

Then I got the idea that if I shorten the case a little bit, the whole thing could be shorter and then eject properly. I got the idea by thinking of some Aguila 22lr I used. It's a 60 grain bullet in a 22lr, they just use a 22 short case and stick this long bullet on it. Overall length is still 22lr. Here's what it looks like:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/250613 ... round-nose

Anyway, I was wondering about pitfalls to using shortened cases in rifles, if any. I'd probably only have to take off 1/16th or so. I'm not referring to the reduced powder room, I can figure that out. I'm wondering if there's any issues with gas escaping or fitting in the chamber. Seems like it would be ok. Anybody done this?

[iceman]

Shouldn't be any worse than shooting 38spl in 357 mag. Just clean your chamber well after shooting a lot of them. You could also just seat them deeper and use a Lee factory crimp die. You don't need a crimp groove with that arrangement. Also remember your rifle is now a 2 shot rifle due to pointy profile of the bullet. Good luck.

[Thunder50]

I think Hornady uses shortened brass in their Leverevolution ammo, and with the long neck on the 30-30, I don't see any problems arising.

[Borregos]

I tried Hornady 110gr ones, seated them deeper and no crimp.

[Hobie]

Hmmmmm.... in my experience the 110 gr. bullets seem to perform unevenly in the .30-30 lever guns. I'm not sure why but over 2600 fps and accuracy seems to fall off. I don't have that problem with the Contender, nor with bullets of 125 gr. + (perhaps because they are barely going 2600 fps) nor with the same bullets in larger cartridges (although some rifles haven't liked them). Velocity isn't everything so for me the 170 gr. still wins the .30-30 role. I do shoot the 110s in the .30 Herrett and really like the VMAX and SSP (which I think has been discontinued). I'd like to hear about your experiment with these bullets.

[earlmck]

One of my "pet loads" is the 110 Speer spitzer ahead of 32 grains of RL-7 for about 2740 fps (Marlin 336A with 24" bbl). No crimp, and I've never noticed any movement of the uncrimped bullet. I've never shot anything other than sage rats or jack rabbits with this load (plus modest numbers of tin cans). No target has ever complained...

If you want to crimp you won't hurt a thing by shortening the cases, but I'd suggest keeping life simple by first just trying the bullets uncrimped and see if that isn't just fine.

[horsesoldier03]

I do understand the concept of trying to overcome a challenge. BUT, I personally share the belief of never trying to use a hammer as a screwdriver! Spire point bullets arnt made for a tube fed 30-30, and for the 2 very reasons you stated. Judging from the bullet weight your trying to load, I think you would be best served buying a bolt action 30-30 or a .243 Winchester.

[Blaine]

With a Lee Factory Crimp Die, you can crimp with, or, without the crimp groove....

[AJMD429]

However it's too long to eject, or load from the magazine. So even if I single load, I can't get it out unless I fire it. So for hunting it's non-starter.

Not entirely - that puts you in the same situation as if you were using a muzzle-loader...

We do shoot 38 Special in 357 Magnum and 44 Special in 44 Magnum all the time without much problem, and even 45 Colt in a 454 Casull seems ok as long as you do a good chamber-brushing before shooting the longer rounds again.

Bottleneck cases could have different issues though.

[Griff]

Shouldn't be any worse than shooting 38spl in 357 mag. Just clean your chamber well after shooting a lot of them. You could also just seat them deeper and use a Lee factory crimp die. You don't need a crimp groove with that arrangement. Also remember your rifle is now a 2 shot rifle due to pointy profile of the bullet. Good luck.

+1.

Hmmmmm.... in my experience the 110 gr. bullets seem to perform unevenly in the .30-30 lever guns. I'm not sure why but over 2600 fps and accuracy seems to fall off. I don't have that problem with the Contender, nor with bullets of 125 gr. + (perhaps because they are barely going 2600 fps) nor with the same bullets in larger cartridges (although some rifles haven't liked them). Velocity isn't everything so for me the 170 gr. still wins the .30-30 role. I do shoot the 110s in the .30 Herrett and really like the VMAX and SSP (which I think has been discontinued). I'd like to hear about your experiment with these bullets.

With slightly reduced loads of RE-7, I've had acceptable accuracy w/GC'd 110s, so, like Hobie, I'd be interested your results. My best loads seem to be 150s, but I geet equallly good accuraccy with the Sierra 125HPs.

[Stan in SC]

I have a Stevens model 325 bolt action 30-30 and I shoot 110 grain handloads in it with good accuracy.
My friend has the same rifle model and his 14 year old son killed two large bodied 8 point bucks with that load last year.Both shots were bang-flop.


Stan in SC

[Marc]

I wouldn't worry about shortening the brass for a couple reasons. The purpose of a crimp is to keep the bullet from getting driven deeper into the case by recoil. Depending on the size of the neck in the brass, a short bullet will have a sort of a crimp behind the bullet simply because the neck behind the bullet is normally a smaller diameter than the bullet. Furthermore, if you load one in the chamber and one in the tube there isn't much "push" from recoil to push the bullet deeper into the case.

There is one good reason to crimp. Barnes recommends crimping light bullets to increase bullet start pressure. This helps accuracy. For that reason I would leave the case long and crimp as much as possible to increase start pressure. My idea is to wrap the brass around the front of the bullet. A Lee factory crimp die worked for the 130 Barnes I loaded.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Rifleman]

However it's too long to eject, or load from the magazine. So even if I single load, I can't get it out unless I fire it. So for hunting it's non-starter.

Take a knife or screwdriver and disconnect the extractor claw.

I use all sorts of bullets in my 30-30; since I only insert one cartridge in the chamber anyway, (no matter what the bullet type,) I simply use the more available, aerodynamic and cheaper bullets with no ill effects.

[El Chivo]

Barnes recommends crimping light bullets to increase bullet start pressure. This helps accuracy. For that reason I would leave the case long and crimp as much as possible to increase start pressure. My idea is to wrap the brass around the front of the bullet.

I definitely want a crimp, but am leery of crimping in front of the crimp groove because the bullet starts tapering immediately. I would be crimping on a sloping surface. Shortening the brass would let me crimp in the groove, not in front of it.

I will try it both ways and see. At least as far as making a demo. At the range I have seen guys with semi-autos toss ammo in the trash because the bullets are pushed in. That worries me. I'd worry about the one in the tube. However, if it turns out the best accuracy goes along with using the rifle as a single shot, that's ok with me.

[Buckeye]

130 gr Speer is the lightest bullet I've tried one of my Marlins...

The 130gr Speer has a high BC and is a very tuff bullet...
With 37 gr.s of BL-C(2) you can push this streamed lined baby to 2450 FPS