H&R Trapdoor

[sore shoulder]

Saw something here last night and went on a search looking for trapdoors but didn't have much luck, the only trapdoors I found were pretty pricey originals. Are they hard to find and what kind of price range are we talking about?

[Pete44ru]

I used to have the plain-jane H&R, but they were also made in 2 different, fancier models - the Officer's Model and the Little Big Horn Commemorative.

IIRC, when you search online the H&R models ewere # 172, #173, & #178 - but I disremember which model goes with which number (sorry).

The plain-jane should be available for about $650-$750 today, with the fancy ones more $$$.

They were ALL made with a VERY nice fit/finish & polish/blue.



.

[2ndovc]

I've had two of the Little Big Horn models over the years. Both were accurate and very fun. Saw an Officers' Model last weekend
new in the box for $999.00.

Decent rifles but the tang sights were pretty cheap and weak. Other than that they were a blast.

jb

[Malamute]

If you want a shooter, you can shop carefully and find good shooter grade originals for about what repros cost, if not a bit less. Dixie Gun Works usd to put out an antique arms catalog, they often had decent deals on mixed heritage guns, or rifles cut down to carbine config for quite fair prices. They had pretty good descriptions in most cases, assesing the strong and weak points of the individual gun. For a shooter, I wouldn't care if it had a couple replaced or missing parts, or the "wrong" year sight etc, so long as it was mechanically good with a decent bore. Couple other dealers often have fair prices also.

The trapdoors are interesting guns. They aren't good for rompin stompin high vel loads, but are quite up to standard level loads. Many will shoot pretty well if you find a bullet that fits the bore well, and perhaps tune the lock a little to get a decent trigger pull.

[Charlie]

A long, long, time ago, I was able to put 5 consegative shots on a target at 100 yards that measured 1.125 center to center, max spread.
A H+R Officer's model, Remington, 405 Grain factory loads.

I still have that beautiful rifle.

Charlie

[rbertalotto]

A while ago I was able to buy a package deal. An H&R Carbine and an H&R Officers Model both for $1400.

They both shoot very well with either Black Powder or Unique under a 405g LEE lead bullet.

The tang sight on the Officers model is a very correct 1884 sight. Back in the day, these sights were sourced from Sharps. The H&R Reproduction is very accurate to the origional. And it works fine out to 300 yds with my loads.

The H&R officers model is a beautiful rifle. Great fit and finish. I've seen them available recently on the used market for around $1000

[Hook]

I also have an H&R Officer's Model and am really impressed by it. I did not care for the factory tang sight and had Lee Shaver adapt one of his tang sight staff's to the rifle's base. It gives quite impressive accuracy with jacketed loads but is one of the few 45-70s I've ever owned that did not do as well will cast bullets. I have to admit that I have yet to get really serious in trying to find a cast load that shoots with the jacketed. That will be one of my projects when I retire next year.

[piller]

A long, long, time ago, I was able to put 5 consegative shots on a target at 100 yards that measured 1.125 center to center, max spread.
A H+R Officer's model, Remington, 405 Grain factory loads.

I still have that beautiful rifle.

Charlie

I do believe that illustrates what the .45-70 is capable of.

[Sixgun]

The H&R's are nicely finished and I see them from time to time for like 6-7 but...........they are of the carbine persuasion and kick a bunch more than the full size rifles. Original full size Trapdoors are all over the place around here and can be had for 5-6 for one in average shape but with a nice bore.----------6

[sore shoulder]

Thanks guys, appreciate all the information and knowledge shared. This is not a new desire, but an old one rekindled by the mention of the H&R's elsewhere. Something about the trapdoor design appeals to me, not sure why except I like mechanical things that make clicking sounds. When they go boom and shoot a large projectile it's even better.

I believe I will hold out for a rifle model in a particular price range. Been doing the same thing related to a beater Marlin/Glenfield 30-30 for many years too, still don't have one.

[awp101]

I believe I will hold out for a rifle model in a particular price range. Been doing the same thing related to a beater Marlin/Glenfield 30-30 for many years too, still don't have one.

The problem is, you have to remember to adjust your particular price range every few years or you get a shock every so often like I do...

[Chuck 100 yd]

Trapdoors......
I read that when Numrich built their warehouse,way back when, they used thousands of trapdoor barreled actions for re-bar in the floors of it. The stocks got burned for firewood.

[dogngun]

In the late 1970's, I bought a trapdoor Springfield rifle that seemed like it had been made from parts- I kind of thought it was a Bannerman's rifle. Had the Buffington rear sight, and it shot very well with Remington factory loads, and with handloads using a .456 round ball thumb pressed into the brass over Unique and filler...a very cheap load that was pretty accurate at 25 yards.

I paid $80 for it.

My ex wife sold it - and my Marlin .45-70 without my knowledge when I was recovering from a broken ankle.

mark

[airedaleman]

Trapdoors......
I read that when Numrich built their warehouse,way back when, they used thousands of trapdoor barreled actions for re-bar in the floors of it. The stocks got burned for firewood.

Think it was Bannerman's, when they built the castle on Polopel's Island in the Hudson River...

[Chuck 100 yd]

Bannerman`s. You are probably right on that. CRS??

[Ray Newman]

I have an H&R Officer’s Model that I routinely shoot. Due to my 67 year old eyes, I limit it to 100 yards with the factory sights.

One of these days, I would like to install a front aperture sight on it. I think it would really shine with such a sight as the bead on the issue sight is a bit hard for me to see.

With a 300 grain Remington JHP and 25.0 grains of SR4759, fired by a Winchester large rifle primer, it will consistently hold 2-2.5 MOA for three, 10 shot groups. Just need to pace the shooting to keep the barrel from getting too hot.

Tried 25.5 grains of 4759, but the recoil started to become noticeable with that charge, so I dropped back to 25.0 grains.

‘Neva’ tried the 405 grain Remington bullet. In my opinion, the little carbine is a tad light for extended shooting with that bullet.

As for originals, I am fortunate to have several. Consider myself just their caretaker for the next generation. Original bores diameters are considered large or oversized by today’s standards. If you are contemplating shooting an original, it is wise to slug the bore to determine its diameter. And speaking of originals, the barrels were made of much softer steel than today’s barrels. I would hesitate loading jacketed bullets in an original barrel for fear of causing excessive wear to the bore. In fact, over the years, I saw 2-3 originals with barrels worn from jacketed bullets.

Personally, I do not believe the stories about Bannerman’s or Numrich using surplus Trapdoor barrels for rebar and the stocks for firewood.

Why would a dealer destroy something that could possibly sell? Could be wrong, but it does not make sense. Plus, I do not think that a rifle barrel would provide the same strength as commercial rebar.

Not only that, but the versions that I heard was they utilized Remington Rolling Block barrels! And when I lived in California, the grapevine story was Bill Wescome -- a Rolling Block collector/ arms dealer --built his shop with Rolling Block barrels in the concrete floor.