Do I go metal or shingle (new roof) ???

[madman4570]

New roof time----------------------------Got my quotes today.
Can get a metal roof for same cost as tear off/install GEF 30yr Architectural (110mph rated shingles)

I want the Hunter Green Metal(match our enclosed patio roof)

Thing I worry about in this climate(condensation)have heard horror stories of when its really cold out the inner metal gets condensation and causes moisture problems????? They want to install purlins and go directly over the current shingles. They will be using Union 29ga Residential 40yr metal roofing.(though they said it will last----------probably much longer)
http://www.unioncorrugating.com/MasterRib.html

What I have on each end (peaks)of our home are pretty big vent panels. With current asphalt----works fine.But am kinda worried with the metal making drips when it gets COLD and inside house is WARM.?????

But for same cost------that metal sure sounds good. The green metal roof on our 40ft enclosed patio which is 10years old(looks brand new)course no moisture problems because it is not heated in winter.Also I am hearing shingles now a days are not like what they used to be-------because of the oil cost deal)??? Much thinner/lighter?????????
They told me the heavy Architectural ones (actually I want the lifetime rated ones($95 @ sq)still only weigh what the old 25 year ones weigh. ????????

Ideas??? They don't think I will have a problem with steel??????? But once its on and if it drips I'm screwed. He will guarantee for first year only if it drips----------------------(will be replaced with shingles)????????? He does not do ridge vent on metal roof(has had issues in driving winds with rain getting in.????

[rjohns94]

I went metal. Very happy

[Blaine]

I have no knowledge, but, I'd go metal next time....

[AJMD429]

Metal. Decra 'Shake' (link). Went with green.



When we installed I think we got 100 year warranty up to 130 mph wind and 6" hail, by going with 'authorized' installer. Awesome stuff and no 'decking' needed. QUIET even though cathedral ceiling only 1-1/2" thick plus 3/4" air gap and tarpaper. I will NEVER use shingles again for more then a scrapwood dog house - even the '50-year architectural' ones. We've twice replaced '50-year' shingles in less than ten years and even though warranty 'covered' it there were roofing nails all over the driveway and yard and stained drywall and rotted decking.

This stuff installs with concealed 4" stainless screws right into roof joists and interlocking covers screws and makes for tight package.

[El Chivo]

solar panels and get the tax break, plus a personal letter from Jane Fonda.

[hightime]

I'm a contractor. I find that there is a general feeling that metal is better. I'm not sure why. I don't though and would choose those shingles. The new shingles seal down better that ever before and I think they look better. Up here in snow country metal roof may shed it's snow weight and people are scared of snow weight. I'm not, I like snow on my roof. If you look at older metal roofs, they don't look that great after a few years. People go in waves or fads. Like siding. It turns out the old asphalt from 100 years ago is still hanging onto some of the old barns. Ever heard, vinyl is final? That's a good one, LOL.

Owen

[Pisgah]

Several neighbors were very happy with their new metal roofs until a hail storm came through. Then they discovered that their insurers regarded their damage as cosmetic only and denied their claims.

[Tycer]

Metal. However,the suggestion not to tear off the old shingles is a big red flag for me on that contractor. There is zero benefit to leaving them on and many reasons to remove them including weight (200#per square) and finding any rot under the old shingles...can't attach to rotten wood. Regarding condensation, proper detail includes 30# felt or 1" foam panels.

If you have anything but a straight ranch roofline with no hips or valleys, you better get the EXACT details of how they plan to handle hips, valleys and penetrations. It's the biggest cause of failures. I cannot stress enough proper flashing. YOU have to educate yourself to the proper details and hold them to it or hire someone who can.

http://www.nrca.net/roofing/Asphalt-shingles-899
http://www.metalsales.us.com/files/inst ... 0Coast.pdf

[.45colt]

Tycer wrote:Metal. However, the suggestion not to tear off the old shingles is a big red flag for me on that contractor. There is zero benefit to leaving them on and many reasons to remove them including weight (200#per square) and finding any rot under the old shingles...can't attach to rotten wood."
My Son and I were talking about this last week. we see many metal roof going on over the old shingles and were wondering what's going to happen to the shingles under the metal after 20+ years of summer sun and winter cold.

[stretch]

Me, I'd go metal if I could.

Is the metal roof going to be screw-down or
standing seam? I'm guessing screw-down at
that price. 1x4 slats every 2 ft. over existing
shingles is the standard method to install the
metal roof. This provides a little airspace to
take care of any condensation that may form.
Standing seam is the better installation because there
are NO holes (like screw holes!) to potentially leak.
It's also noticeably more expensive. But the modern
seals on the screws are REALLY good now, and I wouldn't
worry about it with an experienced roofer. You've
also got a full shingle roof underneath, so anything but
a gusher shouldn't be a problem.

Most roofs are engineered to take snow loads fine.
If your metal roof sheds snow, then you never have to worry
about ice dams. Up here in Maine, one has to sometimes
shovel a shingle roof if the snow gets deep enough.
Helluva workout, but shifting 3 or 4 feet of compacted
snow off of a roof is not what I personally consider a good time.

Today's coatings on metal roofs are vastly superior to those
of a decade or so ago. There are also companies that do
"resprays" of metal roofs with good results. Green holds
up well - reds and blues tend to fade the most.

If you've got a decent pitch, I'd go metal. Fit it and forget
it. Flashing, as has been noted above, is CRITICAL. But
that's more true on a conventional shingle roof than most
roofing folks would admit. My neighbor just went metal
(screw-down) and is very happy. No more ice dams on
the back of the house, and no more shovelling the roof!

One disadvantage to metal occurs if you have gutters. A metal roof
with a long run can shed snow beautifully - but it also sheds
getters well! The stronger gutter systems - like Alcoa's -
are much stouter, and on a standard 24' wide ranch house I wouldn't worry
too much with a good gutter system. Valleys are a different story.
Forget plastic gutters - they'll be gone the first snowstorm with a
metal roof!

Good Luck - let us know how it works out.

-Tom

[AJMD429]

BTW the metal we chose anchors to joists directly and pieces are about 3x5 ft and interlock so screws are under the interlock and not exposed. We chose that style because we wanted the traditional shingle look. Roof has deep 'shingle' pattern and green 'grit' just like shingles. The deep texturing allows install over a deck due to big air space though we just had 1x4 stringers perpendicular to joists.

[2ndovc]

Might want to check with your insurance agent also. Some companies won't cover things like hail damage to
a metal roof because the damage is " cosmetic" and the roofing will continue performing as it has in the past.

jb

[williamranks]

Take a run up to Schoharie and you'll find a lot of farm houses with metal roofs. Talk to the owners.
One thing I do know, from living outside Gallupville as a kid, metal roofs are dangerous.
Slippery if you have to get on them when they're wet and, with a little sun on them in the winter, every bit of snow and ice will come off like an avalanche. We had every shrub and flower planting next to the house crushed.

Bill

[1894]

Not much to add to the above , but I'll add my 2 pennies anyway.
I'm not a fan of fasteners exposed to the weather extremes you may experience .
No tear off is a red flag . Why spend the $$ on a new roof that should last a long time without first making sure the sub-straight is up to the decades ahead ?
Another consideration with metal is how does the sun hit it in the winter ? One side with mostly southern exposure may shed 2+ feet of snow and ice all of a sudden while the northern side holds all that weight . Can rack things a lot in the house .
I do like metal , and properly installed it should last a very long time. I'd lean towards either a standing seam (done by knowledgeable tin-knockers ) or something like the good Doc posted. Big jump in cost for that.
Less cost , strip / repair / ice & water the whole roof and cover with the best shingles you can get. Will also last a good many years.

[AJMD429]

One thing I do know, from living outside Gallupville as a kid, metal roofs are dangerous.
Slippery if you have to get on them when they're wet and, with a little sun on them in the winter, every bit of snow and ice will come off like an avalanche.

Not with the roof we have - it has more 'texture' than ANY shingle roof I've ever seen.

The cost (20 years ago) was about the same as repairing the deck and top-grade shingles would have been, because we didn't repair the deck, we just tore it off and put 1x4's every couple feet perpendicular to the joists.

As for dealing with ice, on our shingle-roofed house, we have to maintain an electric roof-heating cable that melts ice-dams that form, or we get ice melting up high, and the water gets dammed up by the ice down low, and backs up under the shingles. None of that with a metal roof.

The metal roof we have is about 20 years old or maybe just 18, but right after a rain has brightened it up people will ask if we just had a new roof put on, because it is still so good looking.

Even with a smooth roof, the snow-off-all-at-once issue can be dealt with using either roof-cleats or roof-jacks (lots of different names) that hold snow from sliding, or by putting a net up on the roof, which is what we do over the barn doors we want to keep free of snow.

As for the 'danger of falling' - YOU GOT THAT RIGHT...! Not on the textured kind we have, but our barn roof would not be one I'd go onto if wet or icy.

[Hobie]

Metal. Now that the cost is so close if not the same as shingles there is absolutely no reason not to go metal. Metal can last much longer. If the same situation exists when I have to replace my roof it's going to be metal and I have 50 square to roof.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I like metal but my wife don`t like the look.
I love the sound of rain on a tin roof!!!

[vancelw]

29 gauge is awful thin. Like 2ndovc said, most insurance companies make you sign a waiver that they won't pay for cosmetic damage (dents) and will only pay a hail claim if it perforates.
If you leave the old shingles underneath metal, it will dent easier as there is "give". If the metal is against the wood deck (with tar paper or other vapor barrier between) the hail will bounce off the flats but not the ridges without denting as easily.

I bought 50 year asphalt shingles. They are Class 4 wind and hail resistant and I get the same discount as metal. I don't have the cosmetic issue. They weren't cheap, though.

If I used metal it would be 26 gauge or thicker, but I didn't want the noise. A heavy rain would make conversation impossible without screaming

[AJMD429]

I like metal but my wife don`t like the look.

There are many kinds of 'looks' metal roofs can offer...

http://www.decra.com/photo-library/resi ... esidential

Decra Shake Photo.jpg

Decra Metal Shingle Photo.jpg

The type we have came in sections about 3x5 ft - the 'shingle' or 'shake' pattern and texture is within each piece.

ALSO despite a cathedral style ceiling with nothing but a redwood 2x6 ceiling (no insulation drywall etc.) between room amd metal roof it is very QUIET during heavy rain. Way different than our polebarn with smooth roof and nothing under it.

Lots of 'facts' about metal roofs just aren't true for many modern residential types of it.

[Sixgun]

Shingles last 30 years or more. I had the roof done after 30 years and I'll be dead before it needs it again. They look a lot nicer and provide good footing as I'm always on the roof changing spotlights, cleaning the chimney, cleaning gutters, etc.-------Sixgun

[GonnePhishin]

Do not let them install your new roof over existing shingles, whether metal or conventional. I made that mistake once and the new roof curled after a year. Tear the old shingles off!

[madman4570]

Do not let them install your new roof over existing shingles, whether metal or conventional. I made that mistake once and the new roof curled after a year. Tear the old shingles off!

Yes with the replacing of shingles.
Most everyone where I actually visited having metal roofs said for added safety--------when doing the metal-----and using purling's with an air space say(keep roof on/in case of moisture issues)????

My neighbor did his 12 years ago------metal over 20 year old shingles--------absolutely loves it(still looks new)no leaks that at least he knows of. No more shoveling 2ft of snow off his roof also.

Guys-------made the decision tonight(full blown complete Hunter Green metal roof)looking at the options of underneath felt and did also go with extra side venting for better ventilation. Will talk with Contractor/as well as his supplier(warranty stuff)Monday!
They will be giving me the price difference from 29ga to 26ga also.
Tomorrow---------------will be calling (Union Corp and talking with their Technical group)on what else I need to know/do.

Thanks all

[madman4570]

Just got off the phone with metal roof Rep


I asked if the thought process of running purling's over the existing shingles(they say they only run them horizontally to roof)
If the condensation does drip how does it overcome the purling (screwed tightly)into roof laying horizontally in front of moisture thus obstructing the (water)to making it to roof edge? Also shouldn't treated purling's be used.If at all possible wouldn't treated purling's being anchored with stainless screws running vertical to roof(allowing any flowing water on top of old shingles to freely flow to edge and also purling's being treated(resist any rot)??? Couldn't the purling's be run affixed securely a top either the rafter which mine is(2X8 @ 16" OC) or if not into the 3/4" 5 ply marine plywood top roof deck ????????????
If a spanned firing strip(they usually use untreated )will hold the metal at points between rafters--------sure would think the strips secured into that HD 5 ply treated would hold???????? especially being its 16" OC

Gentleman said-------------------first time that question was ever asked----------you got me thinking????????????

[Tycer]

Just got off the phone with metal roof Rep


I asked if the thought process of running purling's over the existing shingles(they say they only run them horizontally to roof)
If the condensation does drip how does it overcome the purling (screwed tightly)into roof laying horizontally in front of moisture thus obstructing the (water)to making it to roof edge? Also shouldn't treated purling's be used.If at all possible wouldn't treated purling's being anchored with stainless screws running vertical to roof(allowing any flowing water on top of old shingles to freely flow to edge and also purling's being treated(resist any rot)??? Couldn't the purling's be run affixed securely a top either the rafter which mine is(2X8 @ 16" OC) or if not into the 3/4" 5 ply marine plywood top roof deck ????????????
If a spanned firing strip(they usually use untreated )will hold the metal at points between rafters--------sure would think the strips secured into that HD 5 ply treated would hold???????? especially being its 16" OC

Gentleman said-------------------first time that question was ever asked----------you got me thinking????????????

Will treated lumber rust out the metal soon? My guess is yes. When working with ACQ treated lumber one must use hot dipped galvanized, stainless or ceramic coated fasteners. I would think that the bare metal where the screws penetrate and compress the metal to the treated lumber would corrode holes at each fastener long before the life of the rest of the panels ends.
I agree with your train of thought about the effects of purlins over old roof. I'll add another thought - walking a roof with purlins must be done with great care not to dent the metal on each side of the purlins. It's easier to walk a roof with exposed fasteners but as was mentioned earlier the standing seam roof is far superior and you have zero idea where those purlins are should you ever need to walk the roof. The added space between the metal and the house increases the odds of denting and increases the noise generated by rain. I stand by the rule of alway tear off an old roof. Always.

[madman4570]

Good info---------------thanks!

[madman4570]

Lost connection(his cell)before I could really get into details.(maybe he just hung up????)

So --------------------upon reviewing stuff myself-----------------------see---------------------------------Page 2 answer to Jill's question. Also see what he says numerous times about never regretting leaving shingles on!
http://www.metalroofing.com/v2/forums/i ... egoryID=44

One of the experts said---------------------To first run purling's VERTICAL (see me no dummy)

Then run HORIZONTAL purling's over the VERTICAL (just installed purling's)
By doing so this gives an open (AIR CHAMBER)from soffit to top ridge.(ensure at soffit there is venting etc.)

Also prior to any purling's use a synthetic(breathable)reinforced membrane(not 30lb felt) such as (Union Brand)Repel membrane.
At ending of roof bottom-----------------use 3' or 6' Ice and Water.

One part of the home has walk up attic---but two additions (no attic)are just from inside to outside (sheet rock/2"X8" rafters 16" OC/ 8" insulation/3/4" marine plywood/felt paper/shingles etc.

[madman4570]

Just got off the phone with (the man) Union Metal Roofing Company top How to Guy!

Told him what I got and that I live in hostile Humid Environment conditions---(Like the Watkins Glen Gorge deal going on)

He said then he will instruct me as if I lived in humid Florida and wanted to put on a metal roof.(to code)

1) Absolutely use synthetic (like Repel)underlayment directly over shingles----(its ok to keep my shingles on, no issue)
2)After that is installed run 2"x 4" purling's horizontal to roof.(do not use firing strips etc.)
3) Install metal panels to 2" x 4" purling's---(no real need for vertical)----but boy still would like them too (says its overkill)
He said except paying more if I go 16" OC purling's 26ga thickness gains me nothing over 29ga(he would do 29ga with no problem)
Standard rule is 24" OC so with 16" OC I am overkill already and have made the 29ga plenty strong.

An important key-----if any portion of roof is under a 3/12 pitch will need Single butted Butyl taping done at seams etc.(directions are shown on Unions website" under Product section.

Said-------no matter what------------------------insist on synthetic underlayment------without it (rain forest time, inside)coming from many dealings and many many in florida!

[FrankJacobs]

solar panels and get the tax break, plus a personal letter from Jane Fonda.

I think this is tough task with wrong govt policies.. I have tried it twice without any success.