bad times 357 round

[silverback57]

I wanted to post this thread to clarify my question:

I have been giving my question more consideration. Lets just say that for conversation sake the 158 and 125 sjhp at their perspective factory loads are good to go.

What I am after is a round for a bad times scenario. One that an individual can cast and load himself. One that will function in a revolver and lever gun. One that can pull dual duty SD and hunting small to medium game. a load that will minimize leading.

In this situation I am not necessarily concerned about over penetration as I am more concerned about terminal effectiveness.

1. initial consideration would be bullet design to work with the lever gun.
2. bullet weight and hardness
3. primer sp or magnum
4. powder and charge.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 72#p632072

[Tycer]

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotFreedomAr ... letPT2.htm

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... gun-powder

I like Lil'Gun and 2400 and H110 for 357s. Don't forget magnum primers and a solid crimp.

[1894c]

Iihave always loaded for the handgun first (accuracy) and adjusted sights and powder charge for the rifle...this is where the fun begins... :)

[Old Ironsights]

Or you could always go with an Air Rifle...

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Evanix_Co ... /2749?ab=1

These things are starting to get seriously cool...

[Griff]

Saeco #398 TC (truncated cone), 158grain, plain base; uses their top punch # 46521 for Lyman or RCBS lubri-sizers.

[Nath]

Full jacket 158 trunicated for me....good penetration and reversed a good ole puncher.
Slow them down for small game and eat up to the hole. Large game......just put it where it needs to be and keep shooting!

N.

[AJMD429]

Don't forget the possibility of a 45 or 50 caliber firearm using SABOTS, which would mean you could load peagravel or small nuts or whatever in an emergency. Also smaller caliber real bullets.

[John in MS]

Skeeter Skelton did a lot of work with Lyman's 358156 GC/SWC, and was well pleased with it. Molds can be hollow-pointed fairly easily nowadays. If I were to settle on this bullet, I'd get a multi-cavity mold for most of my bullets, and HP a single
cavity mold for greater ease of casting the ones for more serious use. Single-cavity Lyman blocks can often be found
on Fleabay relatively cheap. Just a thought...

John

[tman]

Just me, but: 148 grn. wadcutter 38 special for small game and plinking. 180 grain for hunting deer, bear, pig and human pig protection. I like things simple.

[Griff]

Just me, but: 148 grn. wadcutter 38 special for small game and plinking. 180 grain for hunting deer, bear, pig and human pig protection. I like things simple.

Unless you're VERY lucky or have seriously reworked your levergun, wadcutters don't feed well.

[m.wun]

I would stick with Unique or similar powder. Alittle goes along way. Any properly fitted 158gr hardcast bullet, any standard primers and a pot load of brass.
Simple, should fire decent out of just about anything.

[AJMD429]

Iihave always loaded for the handgun first (accuracy) and adjusted sights and powder charge for the rifle...this is where the fun begins...

That's funny... I'm primarily a 'rifle' shooter first, and 'handgun' only for CCW (vs. hunting, target shooting, etc.), so what I do is the opposite...

I develop the best load for my favorite rifle, then:

• any handguns have to just 'suffer the results', and I'll make-do (NOT for CCW handguns), and
  other (non-favorite) rifles I'll accept less-than-perfect results, most likely.

Too confusing to me to keep track of different-loads-for-different-rifles. I generally figure my 'best' rifle is the one to pamper and expect perfection from; the others will have to make-do.

[Griff]

Iihave always loaded for the handgun first (accuracy) and adjusted sights and powder charge for the rifle...this is where the fun begins...

That's funny... I'm primarily a 'rifle' shooter first, and 'handgun' only for CCW (vs. hunting, target shooting, etc.), so what I do is the opposite...
I develop the best load for my favorite rifle, then:

• any handguns have to just 'suffer the results', and I'll make-do (NOT for CCW handguns), and
  other (non-favorite) rifles I'll accept less-than-perfect results, most likely.

Too confusing to me to keep track of different-loads-for-different-rifles. I generally figure my 'best' rifle is the one to pamper and expect perfection from; the others will have to make-do.

I might have different loads in the same cartridge for different purposes, not because one rifle likes a particular load.

I think I'll have to check the actual differences the same 45 Colt load produces in my 4-½ Rifles chambered in .45 Colt. I have loads in BP, Clays for cowboy action and RedDot for SD. Now that I have access to a chronograph, it'll prove doubly enlightening.

[Homer]

While you still are able, buy a few thousand or more 158 grain jacketed soft point bullets (bulk) from either Winchester or Remington (or others if a good deal presents itself). Obtain or save around 500 rounds of brass. Pick-up a few thousand magnum primers (match quantity of bullet supply), and about 10 pounds of Blue Dot powder (match quantity to bullets and primers - 7,000 grains = 1 lb.). Don't use this component stash except for bad times, so it will always be there when needed.

Use this load: 10 to 10.4 grains (I use 10.4 grains) of Blue Dot, seat bullet to center of crimping groove and apply good (medium heavy) crimp. You know the rest. It only takes a little Blue Dot, so a pound of powder will load a lot of rounds. The load is full power and maximum at 10.4 grains (around 1,250 fps in 6" revolver - add 300+ fps for levergun). The load will feed well in all leverguns and usually shoots well in all, including micro-groove, barrels. Up close with a revolver the bullet will expand, without fragmenting, and at distance will act like a solid. In a levergun, up close expansion is rapid, but not explosive, and will act as a solid from about 50 yards out to effective levergun range of about 150 - 175 yards (up to approximately 250 lb. critters).

Obviously, you can cast bullets, but their performance (accuracy and feeding), especially without gas checks, in a variety of guns isn't always as consistent as jacketed bullets.

If you can't find JSP, use JHP, but remember their expansion is much more rapid and fragmentation may occur at handgun ranges of less than 20 or 40 yards from a handgun or levergun, respectively (on medium skinned critters). I load rounds with both bullets, when a bullet deal presents itself.

That's my suggestion based on using the above load for over 30 years in both revolvers and leverguns.

[1894c]

Iihave always loaded for the handgun first (accuracy) and adjusted sights and powder charge for the rifle...this is where the fun begins... :)

That's funny... I'm primarily a 'rifle' shooter first, and 'handgun' only for CCW (vs. hunting, target shooting, etc.), so what I do is the opposite...

I develop the best load for my favorite rifle, then:

• any handguns have to just 'suffer the results', and I'll make-do (NOT for CCW handguns), and
  other (non-favorite) rifles I'll accept less-than-perfect results, most likely.

Too confusing to me to keep track of different-loads-for-different-rifles. I generally figure my 'best' rifle is the one to pamper and expect perfection from; the others will have to make-do.

my problem is I qualify with a handgun every three months (handguns have become primary with me)...so my brain has been institutionally re-wired handgun first, then rifle...kind-of makes me wonder if I need therapy... :)

[Thunder50]

I would go with a Saeco #353 or a lyman 358429 (might be too long for your revolver cylinder), or better yet, a NOE 360180 fn or their 359175rf in a plain base version. NOE also has a copy of the 358429 and the 359175rf is a close copy of the Saeco mould. NOE makes excellent moulds

Gas check if you want, or he might have a mould that will cast a mix of the bullets, so you can have plain base in the handgun and a gas check version for the higher velocities in the rifle. Lil gun or 2400 for the powder, but don't overlook the Blue Dot or Ramshots True Blue

[Catshooter]

Wow. You can sure tell Homer's post is the voice of experience! What excellent advice.

With cast bullets you have to fit the bullet to the weapons. Hardness may, or may not help with leading. But once you've got the fit and hardness right leading shouldn't be 'minimal', it should be zero.

I use a 94 Winchester in 38-55 for levergun silhouette. A 285 grain bullet at over 1700 feet. I don't clean it during the year and at season's end it's had 500 plus rounds through it. Takes two dry patches to get the bore clean.

Good luck.


Cat

[3leggedturtle]

I haven't done nothing but think about it, The Lee 155gr and 125gr RNFP's get lots of great comment over on the Cast Boolits forumn in everything from 9mm up to 358 Win. Cast from WW they will kill anything you want with a head shot. I have a 180gr RNFP Saeco and is a great bullet out of my pistols and Puma. That is reason why I haven't bought 1 of those 2 yet.

[loader]

I have settled on two loads for all my 38/357's including my Marlin and my revolvers. 38 special is Lyman 358311 158 gr. with 5 gr. of Unique, 357 Mag is Lyman 358429 168 gr with 7 gr of Unique. Both cast from ww and use standard primers. Like keeping my logistics as simple as possible.

[silverback57]

some great info! I want to thank everyone. Hey is it really that important to slug the barrel and cylinder throats for a revolver?


I found some Rainer plated bullets I would be willing to trade for some hard cast plain base bullets of varying weights say 158-170-180 swc or rnfp.

this way when my hand loader gets in I can try the various weights and loads to see if they fit and function so I can go from there.

I have about 298 /158 grain FP and 100/ 158 grain RN Rainer plated to trade. I figure 50 for 50 trade.

[Catshooter]

silverback,

It's only important to slug if a) you want to know or b) you get leading and or poor accuracy.


Cat