Are non land owners like renters ???

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:53 am

Here we go, you know me gotta stir the pot a tad.

Guys, It has been my observation(only mine now, and only my feeling)is that it seems a much higher percentage of the people renting a home(and not owning it)seem to me to be much more rude/sloppy/just all around more of a trashy type/even criminal ?????

Kinda of the (it don't belong to me, so???) or why work(and own anything)just will get welfare and rent?????

It is sad to say------but I think many times same goes with many hunters. Screw it(not my land)I will wack whatever runs by(I'am getting mine)now before their gone. Screw the property/screw the owners/just let me get what I want and now at any cost.

Because of the (no skin in the game deal)------its the who gives a sh##

Example------I have deer all over this time of year(I mean in the driveway/lawn/patio/everywhere.(eating apples in yard from apple trees)--------its a good thing we like it. I have had 3 bouts so far with various renters on down the road------wanting to shoot them in my lawn(all renters)

Ain't happening folks. Every time I think of people that are renters(what I have come up with is 75% are kinda trashy ???)

Am I wrong???? Again---this is only what I have encountered and make no accusations of those I have not had personal dealings with/or have observed in some manner. This is just a (how do you feel/what have you found to be the case)deal ????????????

JMHO

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:22 am

As with everyting else, Political Correctness has affected Renting. It used to be that an owner could pick, choose and vet his renters. Now tha is a great way to get sued for "discrimination". Duh. An Owner should be discriminating. But because he can't legally do so, the only way to keep from renting to the clean cut looking applicant who is really a meth cook is to overinflate the rent.

Your .gov at work again.

wolfdog · Post by **wolfdog** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:46 am

Probably a lot of truth there, especially in today's world. I would be an exception today I guess. When I was renting places in my 20s I kept them up perfectly. Now as an owner I let some stuff slide I would not have done as a renter.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:52 am

I have 4, and while not trashy; they are not as neat as when I had one.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:36 am

In the city, I'd say its 90%....for the trash

In the suburbs, the guess is 50/50

In high dollar areas, the percentage of trash goes to 15%.

I know a fair amount of guys who have rental properties and we have these discussions from time to time. It all comes down to the salary of the renters. In nice neighborhoods, most of the people who rent
have jobs that take them from one part of the country to the next and these poeple are usually of a higher caliber. (no pun intended)

Some of my buds have homes in the city and many have "sold out" to section 8 and they have no choice as to gets in their house as the check always comes in like clockwork from the government. Needless to say, they tell me the house is usually trashed within a couple of months.-----6

44-40 Willy · Post by **44-40 Willy** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:08 am

I rented a lot when I was doing the career Navy thing. Always tried to leave the place at least as good as I found it. That said, I live outside of town and there's a couple of houses near mine that belonged to elderly folks who passed away. Their kids rent the houses out now and I've not been impressed with my new neighbors. But they usually don't stay long and I'll get a new set.

When my mother in law next door passes, we'll probably end up renting her house out. I dread that day.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:18 am

Yes renters care less. The thinking is they will be out damage deposit but not the fixup cost. Friend has homes they rent. Smokers or pet owners basically trash the houses. People with 3 or more kids do a lot of cosmetic damage but is easily and "cheaply" fixed up. YMMV and others opinions may be different but that is their experience with 30+ renters over 25 years.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:27 pm

Stereotypes exist for a reason. But, for every rule, (stereotype), there are exceptions!

But, because I'm feelilng ornery this AM, I found your rant hard to read. The lack of spacing and use of slashhes (?), instead of commas made it difficult to keep up with ya. Offered with brotherly affection, not meant as a criticism. But, FWIW:
"Their" = possessive pronoun, as in, it is not their property;
"Ther're" = contraction of they are, as in they're slobs;
"There" = a direction, as in they live over there.

I know, picky, or worse. But, think about it this way, are we not similar to renters in our use of language? We don't "own" the language, but do have use of it, inasmuch as we've been taught it so we can communicate amongs those similarily trained. Our use of it, both written and oral, demonstrate our respect for it... However, there are those times, when we may be in such a rush, that we fail in our objective, to communicate. Or, our use may just simply show how poorly trained we were to use it. My German is somewhat like that. I read well, enough, if what's written is just the way I was taught. My spoken skills in German are so rusty as to be non-existant. My Spanish fares somewhat better... but I'm always checkin' on just what it is I'm saying or writing... just so I know I'm communicating effectively... Don't want to find myself in a fight over something as trivial as mis-speaking! English is also subject to this. And while I'm a LOT more comfortable in its use, I still sometimes wonder if I'm communicating exactly what I want understood.

madman4570 wrote:Here we go, you know me gotta stir the pot a tad.

Stirrin' it right back!

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:07 pm

I often wonder about my writing skills.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:29 pm

IMO, landlords suck the big one.....tight ****....won't fix anything. ..constantly jacking up rent just because. .....Everyone I've had I could have cheerfully kicked their azz

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:41 pm

Griff wrote:Stereotypes exist for a reason. But, for every rule, (stereotype), there are exceptions!

But, because I'm feelilng ornery this AM, I found your rant hard to read. The lack of spacing and use of slashhes (?), instead of commas made it difficult to keep up with ya. Offered with brotherly affection, not meant as a criticism. But, FWIW:
"Their" = possessive pronoun, as in, it is not their property;
"Ther're" = contraction of they are, as in they're slobs;
"There" = a direction, as in they live over there.

I know, picky, or worse. But, think about it this way, are we not similar to renters in our use of language? We don't "own" the language, but do have use of it, inasmuch as we've been taught it so we can communicate amongs those similarily trained. Our use of it, both written and oral, demonstrate our respect for it... However, there are those times, when we may be in such a rush, that we fail in our objective, to communicate. Or, our use may just simply show how poorly trained we were to use it. My German is somewhat like that. I read well, enough, if what's written is just the way I was taught. My spoken skills in German are so rusty as to be non-existant. My Spanish fares somewhat better... but I'm always checkin' on just what it is I'm saying or writing... just so I know I'm communicating effectively... Don't want to find myself in a fight over something as trivial as mis-speaking! English is also subject to this. And while I'm a LOT more comfortable in its use, I still sometimes wonder if I'm communicating exactly what I want understood.
madman4570 wrote:Here we go, you know me gotta stir the pot a tad.
Stirrin' it right back!

Well taken brother well taken. But you should hear me talk!

The ---- ( ) ????? !!!!!! ////// ====== stuff (who the he@@ knows bro thinks its a kludge deal I do,but will make an attempt to control it but I feel the need but Gosh I wanted to put in some question marks.

The spelling,no promises there. More of a math,science guy.

Guys what I wanted to get at in two sentences below is.

It seems to me that a very high percentage of the renters that I know of are pretty darn trashy. This just an observation not a stated proved fact. JMHO, and I just put in some parenthesis around proved trash but removed it.God that was hard.I also had to use spell check on parenthesis caused I initially spelled it parenthethese.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:46 pm

I own a house in the country and a ranch with a house on considerable acreage. This does not make me better than anyone else, or more or less "trashy" than anyone else. I have known many rich folks who had no more good character than you could fit in a thimble, and some poor folks who had plenty of good character and then some. Good character is not defined by your tax bracket or by the fact that you own or rent a house, but by the way you treat others. I don't like the use of trash when discussing other folks as we are all creations of the Good Lord and His works are incomparable. We are all capable of both good and bad behavior. When your neighbor next asks to shoot deer under your apple trees, go into your freezer and give them some deer meat, and show them your good character by your example. I don't mean to preach, just my two cents, and worth just that much.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:54 pm

Pride in ownership applies to many other things in life.

Show me 2 high school kids

Kid A ) -- drives a modest priced new car or secondhand pre-owned car, but that kid worked summers hauling hay, flipping burgers, worked retail (basically whatever the heck kids do for money) -- maybe he got a small bump from mom and dad to get the process going, but basically the kid is paying his own way for the car and insurance.
----- That will be a kid who takes care of his ride , obsessively sweating the details and keeping it mechanically and cosmetically nice

Kid B ) Never had much ambition for after school jobs, but by the time 16 rolls around, the parents are tired of driving him/her around everywhere anyway, ---- so Dad and Mom briefly talk about it, decide Dad needs a new worktruck anyway -- so they give the newly legal driver the keys Dad's 4 year old Silverado (or whatever) --

--- sure, the kid likes the idea of having a new truck, but now Kid B has no skin in the game and thus doesn't appreciate it as much as Kid A appreciates his ride, -- so the aforementioned Silverado goes weeks between washings , regularly gets behind on fluid changes, and the left floorboard is full of fast food wrappers

I think the same thing happens with landowners vs. renters too

When I was a more active hunter, usually I would chip in with some guys' from my brother's company on a deer lease in Western Oklahoma. I wonder how some of you guys feel about deer leases.
For me, it is almost a must, as I don't have the capital to invest in 500 acres of otherwise worthless land in the middle of nowhere (although its a retirement dream

)
So in effect, we are renters too, but I feel that I am helping the farmer out by thinning the herd (have found cattle feed in the stomachs of many many deer ) - and as long as we properly tend to our campfires, don't shoot cows, and help facilitate good deer herd management , -- we are not doing any harm to the land
--- however, I do see some squirrelliness occasionally when one of the company men brings a guest (someone with no skin in the game, basically) -- this will be the guy with a Swarovski scoped Weatherby in the boutique magnum caliber of your choice, with a 55k F250 w/out a scratch on it, -- and at some point during a weekend, we'll hear him unload a full magazine of thunder-boomers (not that many, really , for a Mag - maybe 3-4 shots) - then he'll report back over the 2 way that he couldn't connect on 2 does hanging around under a feeder 100 yards from a stand, its funny. Then that evening, the gentleman will help himself to everybody else's beer because he didn't bring any, among other social faux pas' ( note- I like F-250's, and Weatherby rifles --- but you guys' know the type of dude im talking about )
-- Makes me wonder if the same guy would be such a weirdo if he had actually thrown in some bucks on the lease too

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:59 pm

Absolutely hear what you are saying octagon. I in no way think I am better than someone else, well actually with some I do but.
What I am talking about is it seems anymore you have these groups of young people all living together but not working any jobs.
However, they drive these expensive cars and are up all day and night. Could the economy be one of the factors ?

But life is tough,get an education and a job!
It just seems whenever a rental place comes up you get all these yahoos moving in.

The deer thing, there is a difference with a respectable person driving up in his old truck asking if it would be possible to take one of the deer this year to feed his family compared to a bunch of punks pulling up in their hot Camaro doing Joey Chit wood stuff saying hey man can we wack them deer there.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:22 pm

Streetstar wrote:Pride in ownership applies to many other things in life.

Show me 2 high school kids

Kid A ) -- drives a modest priced new car or secondhand pre-owned car, but that kid worked summers hauling hay, flipping burgers, worked retail (basically whatever the heck kids do for money) -- maybe he got a small bump from mom and dad to get the process going, but basically the kid is paying his own way for the car and insurance.
----- That will be a kid who takes care of his ride , obsessively sweating the details and keeping it mechanically and cosmetically nice

Kid B ) Never had much ambition for after school jobs, but by the time 16 rolls around, the parents are tired of driving him/her around everywhere anyway, ---- so Dad and Mom briefly talk about it, decide Dad needs a new worktruck anyway -- so they give the newly legal driver the keys Dad's 4 year old Silverado (or whatever) --

--- sure, the kid likes the idea of having a new truck, but now Kid B has no skin in the game and thus doesn't appreciate it as much as Kid A appreciates his ride, -- so the aforementioned Silverado goes weeks between washings , regularly gets behind on fluid changes, and the left floorboard is full of fast food wrappers

I think the same thing happens with landowners vs. renters too

When I was a more active hunter, usually I would chip in with some guys' from my brother's company on a deer lease in Western Oklahoma. I wonder how some of you guys feel about deer leases.
For me, it is almost a must, as I don't have the capital to invest in 500 acres of otherwise worthless land in the middle of nowhere (although its a retirement dream )
So in effect, we are renters too, but I feel that I am helping the farmer out by thinning the herd (have found cattle feed in the stomachs of many many deer ) - and as long as we properly tend to our campfires, don't shoot cows, and help facilitate good deer herd management , -- we are not doing any harm to the land
--- however, I do see some squirrelliness occasionally when one of the company men brings a guest (someone with no skin in the game, basically) -- this will be the guy with a Swarovski scoped Weatherby in the boutique magnum caliber of your choice, with a 55k F250 w/out a scratch on it, -- and at some point during a weekend, we'll hear him unload a full magazine of thunder-boomers (not that many, really , for a Mag - maybe 3-4 shots) - then he'll report back over the 2 way that he couldn't connect on 2 does hanging around under a feeder 100 yards from a stand, its funny. Then that evening, the gentleman will help himself to everybody else's beer because he didn't bring any, among other social faux pas' ( note- I like F-250's, and Weatherby rifles --- but you guys' know the type of dude im talking about )
-- Makes me wonder if the same guy would be such a weirdo if he had actually thrown in some bucks on the lease too

Streetstar in one of your sentences you hit the nail on the head. Now, please friend do not think for one moment I think you meant it the way I am discussing it below. The part of your sentence " I don't have the capital to invest in 500 acres of otherwise worthless land in the middle of nowhere" Let me go further upon that wording. Example my one BIL he lives in town in his tidy little home and 99% of the time he thinks owning land is worthless until hunting season. He even told me once while walking in the woods "owning extra land ain't for me,why would I do that buy land and pay insurance and taxes and everything else when I can just come up here or somewhere else. Same with a couple friends I have,one even works for the State that runs a snowplow rig.I have actually been out hand shoveling my 300ft driveway before I got my ATV and when sometimes my big old John Deere A was finicky at zero degrees.He would beep as he drove by while I was shoveling. The same deal when you have numerous hunting seasons.Big game,small game,bow,gun etc.

My wife and dogs and myself like to walk and hike our land and I do not want to have to worry about some dudes up on my place hunting when my wife is walking through the woods along with wearing orange 7 months a year.Sure someone can sneak on there but if caught God help them.
So, anymore its myself/daughter/boyfriend/for now that's it. I know exactly when they hunt. Period.
You know how Police get hardened with hearing every this and that-----same with me anymore.
Is it being neighborly probably not but I say screw em cause I worked for what I got,pay the costs and for anyone else---I say do the same if you really want it!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:31 pm

Madman,
That's the reason why I only have 2 friends, carry a gun, and everyone else can kma. Your right, ignorance and rotten manners without shame appears to be the nature of our culture anymore.

Just politely tell them "no" and if they insist, tell them it's for their safety as you have had problems with previous trespassers in the past and you forgot where you put the dead falls.-6

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:51 pm

madman4570 wrote: Streetstar in one of your sentences you hit the nail on the head. Now, please friend do not think for one moment I think you meant it the way I am discussing it below. The part of your sentence " I don't have the capital to invest in 500 acres of otherwise worthless land in the middle of nowhere" Let me go further upon that wording. Example my one BIL he lives in town in his tidy little home and 99% of the time he thinks owning land is worthless until hunting season. He even told me once while walking in the woods "owning extra land ain't for me,why would I do that buy land and pay insurance and taxes and everything else when I can just come up here or somewhere else. !

He even told me once while walking in the woods "owning extra land ain't for me,why would I do that buy land and pay insurance and taxes and everything else when I can just come up here or somewhere else.

I get what your sayin. --- I would have to switch states to own something like a half section --- a lot of folks are in the same boat -
- thus the nature of the deer lease. A farmer makes a little bit of extra money in the summer and fall off the rough little patch he has that is full of creek beds , briar bushes, rock outcroppings and other things that make it undesirable to put cows on or grow crops on. (but these guys' hold onto it with an iron fist in the hopes that someone will find oil on it someday -- so when I see land up for sale , it is usually 5k + an acre )

Your BIL's remark though roughly reminds me of the seemingly casual nature that MR MAgnum in my example had -- "Why should I worry about finding a place to hunt , if these guys' I know chip in on a lease every year"

I have a total of 15 acres myself spread amongst 2 properties, but in both cases, they are tiny little suburban micro farms --- we just bale hay for our own horse and miniature donkeys, and have a little pond we get some panfish and bass out of , but are surrounded on all directions by people with similar little acreages -- so except for occasionally blasting at a skunk with a shotgun, I cant even shoot anything more potent than an airgun out there ------ and that 15 acres is plenty for me to keep up with due to my other obligations and distractions

I honestly feel like the land my buddies and I have been leasing is not impacted in any way by our presence -- if you remove the feeders and a couple of box blinds, within a month, you'd never know we were ever there, but I am curious if anybody else has had any different experiences, as a deer lease is a form of rental itself

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:52 pm

Sixgun wrote: and you forgot where you put the dead falls.-6

That oughtta work

wvfarrier · Post by **wvfarrier** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:55 pm

I own my land but have to remove 4-5 groups of hunters every season. I have livestock and do not like people hunting around them. I have signs up but it never fails. Last season some smart BUTTS put deer heads n gut piles all along my property line. So I added a hot wire behind the board fencing. You can hear them yelp when it bites them

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:16 pm

wvfarrier wrote:I own my land but have to remove 4-5 groups of hunters every season. I have livestock and do not like people hunting around them. I have signs up but it never fails. Last season some smart BUTTS put deer heads n gut piles all along my property line. So I added a hot wire behind the board fencing. You can hear them yelp when it bites them

Are they "leasing" the neighboring property for hunting purposes -- or is it publicly accessed land -- and they just "stumble over" your fences

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:43 pm

Non-land-owners seem to think they have a right to walk on, dig up plants from, fish on, and hunt on, the property of those of us who DO pay the extra mortgages and taxes and insurance required to own land.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:00 pm

AJMD429 wrote:Non-land-owners seem to think they have a right to walk on, dig up plants from, fish on, and hunt on, the property of those of us who DO pay the extra mortgages and taxes and insurance required to own land.

Yes, indeed

. What an insulting P.O.S. thing to say.....

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:35 pm

There are decent people and scumbags in every walk of life, but it's my opinion that someone who can't relate to the subject has no concern for the issues surrounding that subject.

Someone who has never owned anything cannot conceive the concept of the pride of ownership. Someone who has never had the responsibility of conservation cannot understand the concerns of husbandry.

I will say that there are exceptions, and I will opine that those exceptions are likely attributable to a simple concept of upbringing, or good parenting, if you will. These are person who will most likely someday have their own "skin in the game."

For the rest, it's simple. They don't know, so they don't really care. It's all just there for their entertainment.

44-40 Willy · Post by **44-40 Willy** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:49 pm

Talking about people coming over on private property to hunt reminds me of when I was a kid down in Arkansas and people would run their deer hounds on us chasing off the deer that we depended on for some extra meat. The usual response was something like "the dog couldn't read the posted sign". Funny how often those dogs would end up being shot.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:49 pm

It's funny. In the places I've rented I've had to argue to get permission to do my own basic maintenance. The Owners were so used to the renters either absolutely not caring until something broke or being so clueless that they COULDN'T change a lightbulb.

I was renting my current flat until the Owner BEGGED me to buy it because it was the only property she had that wan't driving her to distraction from constant maintenance issues or trashed-out turnovers.

So I was able to negotiate a pretty nice Rate on an Owner Financed Contract. (It's cheaper than renting and I get equity...)

But when I was on the BoD of our Condo Association in IN, out of 28 units, we had problems with only ONE Owner Occupied unit but problems with EVERY Rented unit (4 in all)...

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:43 pm

A few years back I was clearing the fence row with the chainsaw up to a north wind brush blind. Inside the blind I found two cig butts with lipstick and a couple child's toy soldiers. I saw the blood where they field dressed the deer and the 300 yard drag through the grass back to the road. The lady did not cut the fence to get the deer to the vehicle. I figure she must have been pretty hungry to drag an animal that far. There are a lot of deer out there and I would not deny one to a hungry person in the desert, especially one that won't cut the fence.
This summer someone broke into the house and swiped 8-10 gallons of emergency water I keep out there. West Texas is a real bad place to be thirsty, and they are welcome to it, they did not take any thing else.
Do I want poachers out there? Heck no. But if they NEED food or water I would let em in the front gate and give em a slice of pie to keep em from cutting the fence.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:48 pm

Well, your wanta be deer hunters just sound like run of the mill idiots.... sixgun's got some good advice there

I've known quite a few land/home owners who were total slobs, and a few renters who were not. I guess it's a bit different out here where land is cheap.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:32 pm

While I would agree that a renter has less emotional investment in the property, part of that can of worms falls back on the owner of said property. They are either not screening their tenants well enough or not requiring enough up front deposit to make them care. Possibly both. I promise you, renters become pretty conscientious when a larger deposit is at stake.

It's easy to blame the renters. But on the same token, somebody is enabling these people's behavior. That's usually the property owner.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:35 am

Wow, thanks for insulting anyone who rents anything.......like me.

I can't GET the landowner to fix some things, and we're not allowed to do it ourselves.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:06 am

I do it myself anyway, and after a year the building would change hands and no one would know anything about it.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:01 am

octagon wrote:A few years back I was clearing the fence row with the chainsaw up to a north wind brush blind. Inside the blind I found two cig butts with lipstick and a couple child's toy soldiers. I saw the blood where they field dressed the deer and the 300 yard drag through the grass back to the road. The lady did not cut the fence to get the deer to the vehicle. I figure she must have been pretty hungry to drag an animal that far. There are a lot of deer out there and I would not deny one to a hungry person in the desert, especially one that won't cut the fence.
This summer someone broke into the house and swiped 8-10 gallons of emergency water I keep out there. West Texas is a real bad place to be thirsty, and they are welcome to it, they did not take any thing else.
Do I want poachers out there? Heck no. But if they NEED food or water I would let em in the front gate and give em a slice of pie to keep em from cutting the fence.

Could have been some wack job killing some women or kid and dragging them back to the car

Did you find a deer gut pile?

Up here its my place,no sign here saying Welfare Station. You want food or water or shelter go get a job or maybe go see someone else.
Don't care if its in the middle of a desert if I bought it and owned it its stay off or else!

On the same note I am driving down the road and come up upon someone in desperate need I probably would be the first person to stop! example,its pouring rain and some poor women has her vehicle stranded on a cornering bend of a road with no shoulder etc.
In fact had that one happen just last week. Actually very dangerous deal was hoping whole time didn't get rear ended while helping women. the other side had a shoulder and a spot to pull off about 30yds back up the road. I parked my SUV there first with the lights and flashers on of course and had her put on her flashers she only had her lights on.Then I PUSHED her HEAVY Lincoln MKX across road and back up to pull off behind my SUV. Was tough wet asphalt having little traction to soles of my boots. She ran out of gas. The lady was about 70-80 years old. She had called AAA but I thought it was just a matter of time someone was going to kill her or kill themselves hitting her from behind because of about zero visibility. Had her sit in my vehicle up a little further than her parked vehicle in case someone still wacked her vehicle. The width of pull off though long was only about 15ft wide.In about 20 mins they showed up and the SUV was ready to go she got out and left!

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:06 am

octagon,
Back in the old days, before the military built up southern N.M. so heavily.
The illeagals used to come through my place in N.M.
They did this for years,stopping at my place, cooking, washing, sleeping.
They always left the place tidy, neat.
Never stole a thing.
Now that they do not use that route anymore, I lock the place and stuff disappears all the time.
That's progress?

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:24 pm

Madman: No one has been killing women or kids here. Are you kidding? The sign was clear, a woman poacher with a small boy dragged a deer off. Gutpiles do not last a day here due to critters. I realize you are not from these parts, so I'll try to explain without trying to convince you to adhere to my code..
Giving a thirsty man water in the desert is NOT welfare, it is first aid, much like a tourniquet for someone bleeding to death. My place is 35 miles from the nearest town, a person without water is unlikely to make it in the summer on foot. It is a very harsh environment even with water which I have in abundance. My well is on an aquifer, a regular river of underground water that tastes better than any you find in a store. Being born and raised in the desert, I will not deny anyone a drink while I sit on a river of water. Like the Jefferson analogy says, lighting your candle at mine does not darken me. Here is the code part:
As a young man my Dad taught me to try and not pass up an opportunity to help someone. His exact words were this: When someone asks you for a big favor, think of it as God tapping you on the shoulder. He was a real fine fellow and I try to live up the the example he set.
When you say you would not give to a needy person in the middle of the desert, But would run em off "or else" I can not comprehend this thinking, but like I said, you're not from around here.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:01 pm

octagon wrote:Madman: No one has been killing women or kids here. Are you kidding? The sign was clear, a woman poacher with a small boy dragged a deer off. Gutpiles do not last a day here due to critters. I realize you are not from these parts, so I'll try to explain without trying to convince you to adhere to my code..
Giving a thirsty man water in the desert is NOT welfare, it is first aid, much like a tourniquet for someone bleeding to death. My place is 35 miles from the nearest town, a person without water is unlikely to make it in the summer on foot. It is a very harsh environment even with water which I have in abundance. My well is on an aquifer, a regular river of underground water that tastes better than any you find in a store. Being born and raised in the desert, I will not deny anyone a drink while I sit on a river of water. Like the Jefferson analogy says, lighting your candle at mine does not darken me. Here is the code part:
As a young man my Dad taught me to try and not pass up an opportunity to help someone. His exact words were this: When someone asks you for a big favor, think of it as God tapping you on the shoulder. He was a real fine fellow and I try to live up the the example he set.
When you say you would not give to a needy person in the middle of the desert, But would run em off "or else" I can not comprehend this thinking, but like I said, you're not from around here.

Now I knew innards don't last long but the taking of game upon ones property which mine is posted from hunters not ok'd by myself is stealing. Pure and simple.
So now, Let's get this straight. Is this where you live meaning your home??
Why would someone be crawling up to your occupied home. Car trouble or what???
Absolutely, if I was living there sitting on your porch sipping a margarita and a poor lady with three children came stumbling at my driveway asking for assistance and some water no problem.
If it was people out just about riding dirt bikes or ATVs on my land or some people that approached my home with my feelings of them being of suspicious nature and did not look like they were about to wither up like a prune, get off and get going.

Big difference also with that women poaching a deer and asking your permission. Least where I grew up. Its called honesty.
Like I said, I will bet I am about as soft hearted as anyone on here, however I am not a patsy or a fool or someone that is to be screwed with. Don't do it to others and expect it not to be done to me.
Where I live someone cannot possibly die of thirst unless they are trapped in their wrecked automobile that has become hidden in the woods,over a cliff,or in the creek and in the latter case expect they have plenty to drink cause creeks here flow year round.
I have found though being hardcore but reasonable along with demanding others to respect my family,my land,myself as I do in return just simply works for me period. Other people in surrounding areas have had some problems but here I take care of what needs taking care of pronto.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:19 pm

One cannot honestly expect anyone to actually ask "I'm broke, can't afford the tag/license/etc... may I poach a deer on your place?"

A landowner cannot rightly be expected to assent to a "crime".

OTOH, there is 0oaching and there is "poaching" and nere the twain shall meet.

There's begging for food, and having the wherewithall to kill it youself - laws be hanged. There's no honor lost in providing for your own.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:14 pm

My .223 bolt rifle accounted for 9 mule deer.
The construction crew was fed.
That is all I have to say on the subject.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:46 pm

I find people as a general rule to be RUDE .

I don't care if you're the renter or the landlord .

I have several people I loosely refer to as friends . And as a general rule they all shoot and or hunt .

They all however do not all belong to the gunclub or have places to hunt .

Hence you may start to see where the rubs coming in !

I always try to get my rifles shotguns muzzle loaders ready for the season atleast a month in advance so I don't need to worry with them the week before or whatever .

And without a doubt a bunch of my so called friends will be calling me well into the gun season to take them to the range , load some rifle cartridges etc . And every year I tell them get with me a month before as I don't want to be bothered . And they all think they're the only one that asks the same s...h...i...t each year .

I am truely sick of helping other folks get their hunting guns ready , load a few bullets for them and far worse to take them hunting on MY PROPERTY when they don't have the decency to even offer for me to hunt any of their places .

I figure I have a good 20-30 years of hunting left in me .

And with that being said I can see me doing FAR LESS for the so called friends .

It's just plain rude to wait until the last minute and then expect me to bail their a...s...s...e...s out !

Well I'm vented enough to get me thru the first week of the Virginia ML season next week !

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:26 pm

6pt-sika wrote:. And they all think they're the only one that asks the same s...h...i...t each year .

I am truely sick of helping other folks get their hunting guns ready , load a few bullets for them and far worse to take them hunting on MY PROPERTY when they don't have the decency to even offer for me to hunt any of their places .
!

They only think about hunting season when hunting season draws near ----- If it were me and you were my buddy , -- months in advance the beers would be flowing like spring water, you would never have to spring for a lunch check, and on and on------ and we would have a gameplan 6 months in advance (I hate leeches -- but even I have to deal with them even though I don't OWN any hunting land -- th fact that I regularly have participated in a lease , or co-op, gets me targeted too

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:59 am

octagon,
Please remember that many people simply can not conceive of the vast amounts of land between water sources that is the southwest.
They also do not understand that encountering another vehicle on that 56 miles of dirt road, constitutes an event; that courtesy demands you stop and inquire about each others welfare.
The desert is a harsh and lonely place, but STUNNINGLY beautiful.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:15 pm

If my butt lived there it would be a pickup with a small 250cc on/off Enduro bike always in the truck bed and full of gas.
Hauling other things need fitting that is what a 5x8 $700 trailer is for.
Cell phone reception out there??

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:51 pm

Mescalero: Many years ago my Dad broke down (voltage regulator) and did not see another traveler for 30 hours. He was elderly and had become careless, having no water or meds. He took shelter in the jeep that night. When he finally hitches a ride with the first guy that came along, he got to a land line and got a friend in town to come to the rescue. The heat had got to him pretty good, and later he beat himself up bad for traveling without supplies, in fact he couldn't sleep good for a long time cause he had a hard time letting go of the mistake.
When the fellow found him he was disoriented and throwing up. I can tell from your replies on this thread that you well know what was coming next for him. This was when we noticed that Dad had started to become forgetful.
The desert is a fantastic place if you are ready for what it might throw at you. If not ready, it will kill you and dry you up and the wind will take you to the next county.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:00 pm

Yes,
But it is home to me; and I do what I need to do to stay on an even keel.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:10 pm

I don't know any one out here who would pass by a stranded motorist and think "someone elses' problem". Seems to me that is an urban habit - when I lived in rural Maine you stopped to help people, and in rural Mexico where I used to work people did the same. I'm betting people tend to stop to help when they realize that tomorrow it could be them.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:14 pm

I've broken down on I-10 in Arizona and been passed by 400 cars even though we were maybe 10 miles outside of a town, and I had a disabled guy and his three kids (14, 12 and 2) with us.

Don't ever expect help. Bring your own stuff. In our case, we got lucky, but it was touch and go there for a while.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:21 pm

I think intersate hiway is a different ballgame in Az. there are non LEO people who patrol the interstate to offer roadside assistance.