Level crosshairs, what is the secret formula!!

[Canuck Bob]

Installing a scope for the first time in many years is a bit frustrating. The eye relief is set but every trick tried to date results in a slight cant to the crosshairs. The rings are marked and matched properly. The screws are tightened in rotation and not over torqued. The ring caps have 4 screws each and are in good shape with no burrs or visible defects.

It even seems tricky to tell if the scope is level in the first place before the final tightening.

[PaperPatch]

Outdoors at the range, I use a small spirit level and first post a target with distinct vertical and horizontal lines and level it on a target board 50 to 100 yards out. This provides a known verticle/horizontal reference point. Then I level the the firearm receiver, securing it as necessary(usually lots of sand bags). Finally then, I align the scopes reticle on the target and carefully tighten the screws. In a pinch, I've done this indoors using a door way as my verticle reference. Even so...it usually takes a few attempts until getting it right; as the scope tends to "roll" a bit when tightening things up.
Good Luck

[Mescalero]

I use the paperpatch method, take the "up" turret cap off for the level.

[Nath]

I, once learnt how much it cants from the tightening of the caps, set the scope with some cant allowing the cap tightening to level the scope.
Trying to keep a scope level from the start to finish is very often impossible!

Tighten one mount first, when happy finish the other last!

N.

[Canuck Bob]

I use the paperpatch method, take the "up" turret cap off for the level.

I'm green as grass with these contraptions. What is a paperpatch method?

[1886]

I use the paperpatch method, take the "up" turret cap off for the level.

I'm green as grass with these contraptions. What is a paperpatch method?

Paperpatch (and his method) is the first forum member to respond to your question. See above. First responder, as it were.

There are devices sold to assist in this procedure. This is just one example. http://ads.midwayusa.com/find?userSearc ... _B-_-xtrem

[2ndovc]

Along the same thinking as Nath, I usually snug up the forward mount as close to vertical as I can get in my basement workshop and then go to the dining room table. Lying the rifle on a soft but supportive rest I square up the reticle with the grills in one if windows. This has worked really well over the years.
The one time I didn't do it was with the Rem 700 I bought last year. I'm ashamed to say how many rounds it took me to get that thing on paper!

jb

[wecsoger]

A workbench in the garage. Level up the rifle with wood blocks on the forearm. For flat-topped receivers, lay a straight rod, 36" or so across the top. Some rifles you can pop a pin and run the rod through there.

The next part is essential - have a neighbor with a brick house. And it has to be exactly 90 degrees from your garage. (grin) The brickwork as a grid is a perfect line-up tool.

Seriously, if have any building feature nearby you can use it to line up the reticule.

Trust your measurements and your level, not your eye. After a time of looking through things, everything appears crooked. Or straight.

[shaman]

I've got one of those boresighter devices. I put my rifle into a gun vise and I put the arbor of the boresighter down the bore and then go to work trying to get the crosshairs to line up to the grid on the boresighter. When I start, the boresighter or the scope may be off, but there is only one solution that gets the crosshairs and the grid to agree, and that is dead-on square. When I'm done with that, I finish tightening the screws on the scope and re-check the squaring in the boresighter before doing the final adjustments to get it properly boresighted.

The last thing I do is take the rifle out of the vise and shoulder it. If all has gone to plan, I can mount the rifle and the scope will appear square to a level line on the wall across the basement.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Not a big deal at all. Turn the scope until it is (looks) level. If it looks level,it is.
Whenever I mount a scope for someone else, I have them tell me when it is level.

[7.62 Precision]

It is essential that the scope be perfectly level.

Not all of these techniques will be applicable to your rifle, but may help others as well.

If you have no scope leveling device, you can use a plumb and a spirit level. Put the rifle in a cradle or vice and put the spirit level on the rifle or on the scope base. Get the rifle leveled. You cannot always trust turrets to be level, because on many scopes the tops of turrets are not level.

Set up a plumb some distance away, using a string and weight if you don't have a plumb. It won't work out in the wind. Ensuring that the rifle stays level, level the vertical crosshair with the plumb. Tighten opposing ring screws carefully to keep the scope from twisting and to keep the ring caps level (the slot should be the same width on both sides when you are done). You can use a little blue loktite, but DO NOT over-torque the rings!

If you don't want to use a plumb, or if you are outside and wind could be an issue, use a carpenter's spirit level and draw a vertical line on a target or wall.


If you have a one-piece mount or a flat-topped receiver, you can use a flat feeler gauge to level the scope. Most scopes have flat bottoms under the turrets. Use as many gauges as are necessary to get an exact fit between the bottom of the scope and the base. Use the side of the set with finer gauges so you can adjust them to fit exactly, just barely to the tight side. This will hold the scope level as you tighten the rings carefully. Keep in mind that the bottom flat will not always be level with the reticle on all scopes.

I think it is TNVC that has a little device that takes the place of a feeler gauge using a little wedge. I wish i had thought of that. I have one, but have not tried it yet.

You can use a device that mounts across your base with a rubber band. It works well enough - I have used mine many times. You have to be carefiull to adjust the rubber band tension so it is equal on both sides, or it might raise one side a bit. You can see it here: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/360476 ... le-leveler

Mine also has a spirit level built in, so I can use it as a level when leveling the reticle using other methods. Here it is: http://www.chuckhawks.com/segway_reticle_leveler.htm

There are other methods, but this is a good start. A bipod helps. A bipod and a monopod really helps.

[Canuck Bob]

I am going to offset the scope a bit and tighten the caps to draw it to level. This thread reminded me that is how it was installed in 444 and Weaver mount years ago. The Weaver rings did twist the scope a bit. They were the one side screws strap types. After playing around some more I can trust my eye for level. It sure is obvious when it isn't level!

[7.62 Precision]

I am going to offset the scope a bit and tighten the caps to draw it to level. This thread reminded me that is how it was installed in 444 and Weaver mount years ago. The Weaver rings did twist the scope a bit. They were the one side screws strap types. After playing around some more I can trust my eye for level. It sure is obvious when it isn't level!

It won't be obvious - you will need a reference point. I have never gotten a scope truly level by eyeballing it. How much of a hurry are you in to get this done?

[Canuck Bob]

I am going to offset the scope a bit and tighten the caps to draw it to level. This thread reminded me that is how it was installed in 444 and Weaver mount years ago. The Weaver rings did twist the scope a bit. They were the one side screws strap types. After playing around some more I can trust my eye for level. It sure is obvious when it isn't level!

It won't be obvious - you will need a reference point. I have never gotten a scope truly level by eyeballing it. How much of a hurry are you in to get this done?

Thanks, your advice is noted and will be heeded. I was once a mediocre machinist in a previous life and will break out some decent level for this. I wrote the above and missed your earlier post. This rifle will be as close to a precision gun I will probably ever own. Might as well aim for precision even if I miss by a bit. I'm in a bit of a hurry as I want to shoot the thing next week. However real development and training won't happen until spring breakup in April/May. For now it will be factory fodder and getting used to a scope. Winter is my busy season in the bush so carrying it for impromptu shooting is a sure thing.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Once while Elk hunting my brother got excited after seeing a heard and fell down.
The cross hair in his Jap scope looked like a swastika but it still shot right on.
Since I don`t use drop compensating scopes or anything that looks like the view through a periscope on a German U Boat. Nor do I do any 1,000 competition The fact that the cross hair is exactly level is of little importance to me. For me if it looks level it is. The human eye is still one of the most precision tools available. Most of those strap on guides rely on the fact that the guns parts are also perfectly square and we all know that is not always the case.

[Blaine]

Or.....zero it exactly to POA. Run the windage out 20 or more clicks. Is the POI higher or lower than the POA?? You can take it from here, I'd imagine. It's a bit of trial and error if you don't want to go all scientific

[AJMD429]

You need:

• 1. A piece of graph paper, and
  2. A Mag-lite or some other bright flashlight.

The butt of the gun can usually be placed down on the floor on a sheet of graph paper and aligned easily with the lines. Darken the room enough so you can see the crosshairs on the graph paper by shining the light through the front of the scope.

Turn the scope enough to align it parallel with the graph paper lines.

Works every time.

[Blaine]

You need:

• 1. A piece of graph paper, and
  2. A Mag-lite or some other bright flashlight.

The butt of the gun can usually be placed down on the floor on a sheet of graph paper and aligned easily with the lines. Darken the room enough so you can see the crosshairs on the graph paper by shining the light through the front of the scope.

Turn the scope enough to align it parallel with the graph paper lines.

Works every time.

Ahhh....You numba hanna gun boy.....

[FWiedner]

I've had scopes twist off level while tightening the rings.

Once the scope is on the lower rings, upper rings on loose, eye relief set, spirit-level on the scope, I've taken to tightening screws on the rings a quarter turn at a time, all screws at the same torque.

Tighten all screws a quarter turn, check the level and the reticle, adjust..., tighten quarter turn, check the level and the reticle, adjust..., until desired result is acheived and rings are snug.

[El Chivo]

I'm with Chuck, I use reference points but don't lock the rifle down; how can you tell if the rifle is straight or not? I hold the rifle as I usually do and turn the scope until it looks straight. You do have to start at a slight angle with Weaver straps and it turns as you tighten. Just go slow.

The center point doesn't care if the crosshairs are level or at a 45 degree angle. If you hold over then maybe it would be a problem at long range/small targets, but this is levergunning. You got a low power scope, don't worry so much.

[7.62 Precision]

I'm with Chuck, I use reference points but don't lock the rifle down; how can you tell if the rifle is straight or not? I hold the rifle as I usually do and turn the scope until it looks straight. You do have to start at a slight angle with Weaver straps and it turns as you tighten. Just go slow.

The center point doesn't care if the crosshairs are level or at a 45 degree angle. If you hold over then maybe it would be a problem at long range/small targets, but this is levergunning. You got a low power scope, don't worry so much.

This is a .223 bolt rifle, not a levergun. It is true that the centerpoint does not need to be level, but not only holdovers are affected by a canted scope, but also adjustments. If the scope is canted, then elevation adjustments also change windage and windage adjustments change elevation. If nothing else, it can cost more ammo zeroing.

You put a level on the rifle to tell if it is level. My thought is that it is easy to do it right, so I might as well.

You are right, the Weaver-type rings will turn the scope.

This rifle will be as close to a precision gun I will probably ever own. Might as well aim for precision even if I miss by a bit. I'm in a bit of a hurry as I want to shoot the thing next week. However real development and training won't happen until spring breakup in April/May.

When you have more time or when you chose another scope, I can lend you a leveler. I can also help you with scope choice, if you like, if you go another direction later.

[piller]

Make sure you don't have an Astigmatism before you start. Every crosshair looks to me that the upper left quadrant is the largest of the 4 due to visual anomalies from having an Astigmatism. I can turn the scope 90 degrees and the same space is the largest, and the line running horizontal is always higher on the left than the right, even if a bubble level says it is perfect.

[Canuck Bob]

This sure proves the old proverb about skinning cats! I do appreciate everyone's opinion and advice. I guess I should discuss my goals with this little bolt action 223 rifle.

The current scope will be replaced eventually. If the rifle isn't a mediocre shooter the plan is to develop it into my version of a tack driver. I have the crosshairs ok for now so I can start shooting. The final scope will be installed as perfect as I can get it once the money is available. I torqued in rotation on one ring cap then tightened it into a level point. The caps have equal gaps and the horizontal bar is very close. I used small levels and my gun caddy with an eye for first attempt tolerances.

I've decided to take the final install to the shop and use levels and a plumb bob for the vertical line on the shop door. I appreciate this is not totally required for my shooting ability and goals but such stuff appeals to my idea of fun or is it OCD! I've been shooting for years and never practiced anything very precise. The one thing I realize for my point of view is that developing for a hunting rifle is almost the opposite of precision development in many ways.

These are the attributes of a Lee Enfield or a lever and why they deserve our respect.

I am now wondering if I can attempt to do the same with this little 223 but add the challenge of modest precision in a sporting gun. The only creatures to be targeted are now coyotes and wolves as they are out of control here. My goal is to learn about load development, rifle tuning for sub-MOA shooting and very sturdy reliability in a 300 metre 1in12 twist 223 platform, maybe a shade farther? It is humble compared to what many of you guys do but it should provide a lot of shooting fun and gunroom education.

[Dave]

I put the gun in an MTM gun cradle with the bottom half of the rings in place. Then I take a small level and level the gun. Then I put the scope in the rings and level it. Then I put the top half of the rings on the front ring and tighten it enough the scope can't move while I gently hold the scope.

It is hard to get a scope level using the Weaver style rings.

[7.62 Precision]

I am now wondering if I can attempt to do the same with this little 223 but add the challenge of modest precision in a sporting gun. The only creatures to be targeted are now coyotes and wolves as they are out of control here. My goal is to learn about load development, rifle tuning for sub-MOA shooting and very sturdy reliability in a 300 metre 1in12 twist 223 platform, maybe a shade farther? It is humble compared to what many of you guys do but it should provide a lot of shooting fun and gunroom education.

This is likely well within the abilities of the rifle.

Keep in mind that precision for competition is one thing. Precision for tactical use is another, and much of what has been learned and developed for combat sniping is applicable to long-range precision hunting.

[Canuck Bob]

I am most interested in the tactical approach. The plan is to learn the skills without the highly specialized target stuff. It would be nice to have a handy rifle in a case and some ammo for carrying in my sales truck for shooting in the bush.

I really need to shoot the rifle as outfitted then get an idea of were to go afterward. Might get a chance this weekend or next week.

[BAGTIC]

Nath and I are on the same page.