If you don't have a 4x4, chains, or studded tires...UPDATED

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:17 pm

.................don't try driving up a 20% plus grade. It's been bumper cars on our street. (all these vehicles tried to drive up the road) The photo shows a 2wd Durango, with BALD tires that spun, hit the red car then stopped just before taking out the Camry on the sidewalk. The maroon van was just behind and she slid backwards and pinned herself against my neighbors car. My house has the open garage. Just below my house and out of the picture is a Prius that pulled over and then the husband came down in his 4x4 to "try" and drive it up the hill. He spun into the Durango, pushing it into the Camry. No one got hurt and my wife made it home safe.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:22 pm

I remember FWD being pretty handy on bad streets.....

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:58 pm

See, this is what happens when you get rid of natural selection. If it still occurred in the human race these people would never have been born.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:00 pm

I so hate front wheel drive cars! Push too hard and it will spin you right out. Same goes for the Dodge Durango, they suck!! I had an '05 and it would get stuck in the snow if you looked at it wrong!
I'm currently working for a Chevy Dealership and with all the snow I've gotten a lot of time behind the wheel of a lot of different vehicles. Yesterday I landed in a Mercedes E350 AWD. 30" drift all around it and 100 yds to get to bare pavement. That big black German car rolled through that snow like my F-150 Super Crew!!!!
Second best in the snow (non 4x4) was a Buick Lacrosse. That car went right where I pointed it, great car for a FWD
Best part is they give me the '10 Camaro with a 6ltr v8 and a stick to pull out of a drift, a little rock and roll and I'm good. Told my manager "I've been driving sticks and V-8 since he was in 2nd grade"!

jb

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:00 pm

jeepnik wrote:See, this is what happens when you get rid of natural selection. If it still occurred in the human race these people would never have been born.

It's up to about 4" now and it's down to 18 degrees. It appears the "smart" ones have parked down at the bottom and are walking the 1/2 mile up to the top.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:20 pm

I have to say that my old Subaru Forester would go through anything a 4x4 P'up would go through, and then some. I've had this new Wrangler off the path on logging roads in 2WD that my Trucks in 4WD would have had a tough time with..I'm really starting to love that thing....

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:29 pm

Growing up in the white stuff all of my life, I will tell you that tires make a HUGE difference. I either run two sets (summer & winter) or just all terrain. My winter/hunting season tires are darn close to a mud terrain. They make a little noise on the highway but I rarely have to run 4X4 in the mud or snow. We have gotten a lot of snow this year and these things perform. This is on a 2012 Sierra 3500 crew cab long box. Tires are 275/70/18 Cooper ST MAXX

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:28 pm

Two things I learned growing up in NY in the 1950's; snow is not fun; weight on the drivers makes a big difference.

My Dad ran snow tires from about mid November to mid-March. Noisy things, but gave solid traction. He also had sheet of steel diamond plate cut to fit in the trunk. That extra 85+ lbs. over the divers made a big difference.

Up here in ther pacific North Wet, I see more rain than snow. Even though my 2010 GMC Savana van has mud/snow rated tires and on-demand all wheel drive, I still put two 40 lbs. bags of salt for the water softener in the back over the rear drivers from November to March. Makes a big difference even on wet pavement.

Some drivers I know also keep a folding shovel/G.I. entrenching along with a box or two of cat litter sand for traction if they bogged down.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:31 pm

jeepnik,
The truest statement I have ever read on leverguns or anywhere else.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:36 pm

I had a '79 Riviera with studded snows. That beast went out on days when no one else could.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:55 pm

Snow tires make a huge difference. Those little high MPG cars have tires that are hard as a rock . The harder the tire the less roll resistance the better mileage. I have a spare set of rims with winter tires for the wife's car . Even when it is below zero the tire tread is soft enough to push easily with your finger. They make a big difference with stopping and going. They are worth every dime.

My favorite thing when it is snowing is watching all the 4X4 pickups and SUVs spin out and slide around because people can't figure out how to flip the 4X4 switch on the dash. 4x4 is not just for off road.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:59 pm

You still ain't gettin up my road without 4wd....too steep. Salting the roads isn't allowed, in OR, and snow plows are few and far between...Since I live in unincorporated county we're on our own.

Mac in Mo · Post by **Mac in Mo** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:05 pm

BF Goodrich All Terrain Radials(KO). Best all around tire I have used. I've been running them exclusively for probably 17 or 18 years. Excellent traction in the snow.
With two wheel drives you have to avoid wheel spin on ice/snow. Once the tire heats up you are done.

Kevin

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:09 pm

My Z-71 has that Auto 4WD switch. The only time I'm used it was making a 200 miles trip on roads that changed from slush to ice to snow to bare spots and back again. It did the job, but it just didn't seem like I could "feel" the road.

The first new 4x4 truck I bought I was going to get manual transfer case and manual hubs like I grew up with, but the wife wanted me to get a truck with the nice interior since she knew I was going to drag her all over the country in it. That left me with no choice but to get auto hubs and electronic transfer. I am so glad. Best money ever spent.

I run M&S or All Terrain tires all the time. These Toyos have over 70k on them. I may break down and buy a new set and hope it's the last set my current truck ever needs while I own it.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:33 pm

Wow,
I did not get get 20,000 out of my Toyos, wonder what I did wrong?

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:36 pm

.

I have the luxury of being able stay home & watch those antics from my livingroom window, with a nice hot toddy in my hand.

.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:44 pm

Tycer wrote:I had a '79 Riviera with studded snows. That beast went out on days when no one else could.

I drove in the 78 blizzard from Cincinnati to Indianapolis when I-74 was barricaded 'closed' (but it was so bad there was nobody to patrol for lawbreakers). The trip took something like 11 hours, but I had rear tire chains, but instead of putting them on my normal rear tires, which already were 'studded' tires, I rotated them (and got frostbite doing so) so the studded were on the front and the chained regulars on the rear. I think I averaged about 8-10 miles an hour and shook every bolt in the car and every tooth in my head the whole way. The strangest part was that I was in the middle (I guess) of I-74 halfway up the big hill out of Cincinnati, and a wind gust blew my front end off to the side, so it was then I decided to put on the chains. I had time to do all that, with several breaks to get back in the car to thaw out, and nary a vehicle to come along. Of course I was a kid then, and didn't stop to think that the reason nobody else was out there was that I was being really STUPID by being out there myself...

Marvin S · Post by **Marvin S** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:48 pm

I got a new set of goodyear dura tracs for the Dodge Ram and am impressed with them in our latest 13in snow. Blizaks are supposed to be the best snow tire for a car.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:20 am

The scariest winter driving I've done was in Portland area (probably not many miles from jdad's area) after an ice storm. Hills, curves, and folks just not prepared for nor accustomed to slick roads.

Meanwhile we are getting the same thing over here on the "dry" side of the mountain from jdad's place. Winter finally arrived in Oregon!

I may be a new believer in the groundhog's forecasting ability -- Feb 2 was the last nice day we had and it has been steady move toward winter ever since. Right now it is 8 degrees outside and snowing steadily. Just put a few more logs on the fire!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:42 am

When SWMBO rolled the Escort into a 6' ditch because of a little ice & slush,

I insisted on buying a Subaru.

The tyres suck, but it will still go where my Ranger won't... even in 4wd High.

I really (really, really) wish the Subaru drivetrain was available on a 1/4 ton PU ...

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:18 am

We had a Subaru two wheel drive car the girlfriend got from one of her accounting buddies.
That was the best little car we ever had.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:19 am

Mescalero wrote:Wow,
I did not get get 20,000 out of my Toyos, wonder what I did wrong?

They probably fired that chemist

I've never gotten that kind of durability out of tire before. They only thing that ever came close was some Michelins years ago on a passenger car.

The factory tires on my Z71 had about 36k on them when I decided to replace them before a trip to Montana for deer season. (it was 90 degrees that year

I coulda waited like a good tightwad

) I put these Toyo Open Country AT tires on and they just lasted and lasted. No idea why. Lots of off road miles on them as well as highway miles. I probably put 500-1000 miles off road (mud, snow, shale, cactus, greasewood, sage brush...) I finally replaced the front tires at 66K because they were starting to cup on the inside (accidentally leaving 4WD engaged on pavement

and a deer wreck in Iowa a couple years back didn't help them). When I replace the back two tires It will be the second set of tires purchased since the truck was new and it'll have 110k on it by then. I bet the new Toyos don't last like the first set did

Great traction, but I never have liked the ride on the highway with them. Decent trade-off I guess.

My dad drove a Subaru coupe all over this country. I wanted to buy one when I first got married but they were outside of my budget.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:32 am

Another 2-5" expected today, with a chance of freezing rain to seal everything up. None of those bumper cars going to move off our hill until the Monday thaw.

Here's the fun pile this morning.

williamranks · Post by **williamranks** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:32 pm

In my experience good tires are number one no matter what you drive, when you touch the brakes on a 4x4 you're in "no wheel drive" and bad things happen without good tread.
Back in the '70's I had the only BMW in Maine with a fitted set of V-bar truck chains on the back. I can't count how many times I'd be cruising along in 12+" of snow.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:36 pm

BlaineG wrote:I have to say that my old Subaru Forester would go through anything a 4x4 P'up would go through, and then some. I've had this new Wrangler off the path on logging roads in 2WD that my Trucks in 4WD would have had a tough time with..I'm really starting to love that thing....

Yep, pretty good vehicles. Now if they would just put leaf springs back on they'd be perfect.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:39 pm

Mescalero wrote:jeepnik,
The truest statement I have ever read on leverguns or anywhere else.

Yesterday was one of those days where I had to deal with folks who shouldn't have been born all day.

The need a course in school about not touching things you have no understanding of. Then again, maybe more should touch things they don't understand and let natural selection take it's course.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:08 pm

Agreed!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:36 pm

Tires do make a big difference. Currently, I am running Hankook Dynapro RF10's on 2 of my 4 wheel drives and they are about as good as I have ever used. I live on a mountain road that is worse than that one, and I don't usually have any problems with my 4 wheel drives, but I have been traveling that road for 50 yrs and I hit it hard and fast in 4WD, where I run into problems is if I meet someone or come up behind someone who has gotten stuck and is blocking the road. But that road has whipped out a lot of 4 wheel drives over the years, and big trucks and everything in between.

I never buy a vehicle anymore unless it's 4WD, where I live without 4WD you're pretty much stranded in bad weather, and my road is on the north side of the mountain, so it is always a few days longer that it is covered after a storm then the rest of the world it seems. My company truck is 2 wheel drive and it's been parked for week now.

The bad thing is after the thaw, I fully expect the bottom to fall of my road (dirt). Then it can get even worse, become almost impassable with any kind of vehicle except a tall boy pickup with good mud tires on it. That's when my old tall F250 with it's M/T tires starts to really shine, but I have seen it when it was touch and go even with it.

Gaucho Gringo · Post by **Gaucho Gringo** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:56 pm

The best snow vehicle I have ever had was my 72 Dodge 3\4 ton PU. I had a 10' cabover Camper shell that I carried about 3500 lbs of tools in it. With it and the PU box trailer I had I would go over the scales at the dump at over 12,000 lbs. It had 9.50x16.5 all season radials on it and I went up and down the West Hills of Portland, the hills out of Vancouver, Camas & Washougal in ice & snow all the time. I would go around all kinds of stalled out buses, cars, semis and once even a police car. It only got 10 mpg but it would have made it up the OP hill no sweat.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:23 pm

I have a Dodge Power Wagon, 1976, it also has 16.5 wheels on it.
The first year I retired, and went back home; we had 86 inches of snow that year.
I spent the whole winter pulling people out of their stupidity.
One old boy ( and only one ) offered to buy me breakfast.
It is no wonder my faith in species homo sapien is greatly diminished.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:30 am

.

I hope nobody had to camp out in that SUV............................

.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:20 am

Pete44ru wrote:.

I hope nobody had to camp out in that SUV............................

.

The Durango owner was trying to get his chains out. I stopped the Prius about an hour before and told the owner to just leave it parked down here. Her husband drove down in his 4x4 and figured he could do what no-one else could. He made it up just past the silver Camry sitting part way on the sidewalk, spun/slid into the Durango that was parallel to the Camry, pushed the Durango into and past the Camry, and spun so that his Prius wedged his roof into the Durango hatch.

It was a sporting event.

Thankfully nobody got hurt.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:30 pm

jdad wrote:It was a sporting event. Thankfully nobody got hurt.

Great fun, so long as it's a spectator sport. I'm sitting by the fire, hoping to convince the boss she doesn't need to get to the quilt shop today (she thinks she has an emergency lack of a certain size sewing needle).

Meanwhile I'm getting ideas for cast bullet loads in the 300 Savage, which I have not previously played with as a cast bullet platform. One of these fine days (has to finer than we are having now, with a foot of snow on the ground and more coming down) I will have some sort of a range report.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:35 pm

jdad wrote: The Durango owner was trying to get his chains out. I stopped the Prius about an hour before and told the owner to just leave it parked down here. Her husband drove down in his 4x4 and figured he could do what no-one else could. He made it up just past the silver Camry sitting part way on the sidewalk, spun/slid into the Durango that was parallel to the Camry, pushed the Durango into and past the Camry, and spun so that his Prius wedged his roof into the Durango hatch.

It was a sporting event. Thankfully nobody got hurt.

Oh, YEAH ! Time to pass the nacho's................

.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:58 pm

earlmck wrote:
jdad wrote:It was a sporting event. Thankfully nobody got hurt.
Great fun, so long as it's a spectator sport.

+1
I got home about 11 am yesterday to about an 1-½" of snow on the pastures, drive and gravel road down to my drive. All gone now. I have a set of chains for my 4WD dually... I've only ever needed them... (well... we put 'em on), up the Sierras deer hunting. The drive from about 5,900' up to 9,000' is all dirt, and on occasion, those early fall storms will play havoc with folks and their 2WD p/us or small SUVs and street tires... even mud/snow types... It takes an aggressive tread to deal with 1' of snow, expecially when its wet and sticky. I've never used my chains here in TX... But, for that trip outta state... in they go!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:59 pm

BTW, weren't you just predicting such an event at dinner a couple weeks ago?

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:07 pm

BTW, weren't you just predicting such an event at dinner a couple weeks ago?

Yes I did. I knew the "warm" Winter was too good to be true. Freezing rain is moving up now and is already at your truck stop, in Donald. 12" of snow, with a little freezing rain on top just for fun.

Nicki and I just watched a car come down the hill with cable chains on. I guess he didn't stop to make sure they were tight because one was no longer on his tire, but wrapped around the axle.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:22 pm

.

LOL - The "show" must go on ! ! .

.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:20 pm

I sure about messed up tonight, on the way home from work. My road is still covered with ice and snow, but it did melt some today, and was somewhat slushy, so I decided not to put my pickup F150 short wide in 4WD after leaving the blacktop. I will sometimes do that, just to see if I can make it to help me decide when it's a sure bet to start driving my 2WD company truck again.

Well the first 1/4 mile went ok, but then the truck started getting loose, and finally I was about to spin out, so I slipped my pickup in 4WD or so I thought, but evidently did not get it all of the way in, and was still in 2WD, and by now I was stopped, and I was pretty sure by then that I didn't have it in 4WD, so I got off of the gas and stepped on the brake to hold it while I fiddled with the 4WD shifter. The truck started sliding backwards, and I mentally started kicking myself in the butt for being so stupid, finally the truck was almost stopped on sliding back, and I managed to get all 4 wheels under power, and all was well, I started moving forward up the mountain, but it was touch and go, since i had lost my momentum, but I made it to the top, and made a mental note not try that again.

I guess I am going to have to keep driving my four wheel drive for a few days longer. These old dirt roads are still covered unless on south slope or somewhere.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:28 pm

Griff wrote:I got home about 11 am yesterday to about an 1-½" of snow on the pastures, drive and gravel road down to my drive. All gone now. I have a set of chains for my 4WD dually... I've only ever needed them... (well... we put 'em on), up the Sierras deer hunting. The drive from about 5,900' up to 9,000' is all dirt, and on occasion, those early fall storms will play havoc with folks and their 2WD p/us or small SUVs and street tires... even mud/snow types... It takes an aggressive tread to deal with 1' of snow, expecially when its wet and sticky. I've never used my chains here in TX... But, for that trip outta state... in they go!

Hey Griff, did you ever try to negotiate the high span on the Dallas 'High-Five" during a Thanksgiving ice storm when half the metroplex is trying to get home at 5:00pm before the 'bad stuff' hits?

Heh. Now that's entertainment.

Chains = Priceless

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:29 am

Umph...left for Key West last Monday it was -12'F and snowing, came back Friday night and it was -10'F and snowing.

Last time I could see the road was sometime in early December, can not understand what the problem is with driving on ice and snow, just have to keep all the tires turning at the same speed and you do not have an issue.

And remember...brakes are not your friend on ice. Momentum is, especially when approaching an uphill run. Frustrates the heck out of me when I am behind an idiot that slows at the bottom of a hill and then tries to accelerate up the other side...idiots!

yooper2 · Post by **yooper2** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:12 am

Up here just about everybody has a set of snow tires and a set of summer tires mounted on different rims. The best snow tires I've used are Blizzaks from Bridgestone. They're siped every which way and soft as can be. I have them on my Dakota and the plow Bronco while the lady has them on her Forester. I used to use chains on the Bronco but haven't felt the need since switching to the Blizzaks. Yeah, I REALLY like those tires. Stay safe gents,

Eric

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:27 am

Sunday am

1/2" of ice/freezing rain, on top of 12" of what was once powdery snow......we ain't goin nowhere, for a while. The dog couldn't get back up to the front porch after doing his thing. I had a real scary 15', on a downhill grade.

m.wun · Post by **m.wun** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:26 am

I would think putting good chains on every tire and having fwd would make things a whole lot easier.Or at least studded tires.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:28 am

Old Time Hunter wrote:Umph...left for Key West last Monday it was -12'F and snowing, came back Friday night and it was -10'F and snowing.

Last time I could see the road was sometime in early December, can not understand what the problem is with driving on ice and snow, just have to keep all the tires turning at the same speed and you do not have an issue.

And remember...brakes are not your friend on ice. Momentum is, especially when approaching an uphill run. Frustrates the heck out of me when I am behind an idiot that slows at the bottom of a hill and then tries to accelerate up the other side...idiots!

You know what ???

Some of the cars have really screwed up Traction Control, Stability Control combined.
That guy in front of you might have one of those?
My brother has a Toyota Avalon Limited. This car though a nice ride when coming up a hill with snow when you step on it at bottom the car just slows way down??

There is no manual TC/ESC off button. My brother bought the Shop Manuel and figured out prior to stepping on it at bottom of hill, you need to stop, put car in neutral,step on brake twice,put it in D, back to neutral emergency brake on/off then back to D finally I think murmur some type of foreign phrase

The ritual might be a tad different but its something like that.
Oh, when you turn car off, it resets everything back so next time you must do it all over again?
His wife has got stranded on just medium hill, some snow because about zero momentum at start.

Our Kia 4x4 Sportage goes real fine! Told him he needs something else!

Has TC/ESC and 4wd Lock buttons for on/off too

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:49 am

That sort of story is exactly why I prefer manual locking hubs and a transfer case shift lever

With the modern trend towards cars that know better than the driver, I'll be looking for old trucks and parts to keep them going the rest of my days!

Tire chains would have helped the pictured situation a lot. We never used them when I lived in Maine, they salted the heck out of the roads there, and it generally just got cold and stayed that way most of the winter, so ice was less of a problem than in western states. Our FWD car with studded tires never seemed to get stuck, but we never put snow tires on the truck, just used the 4WD.

I only learned to use chains out here. We get some nasty ice + snow on the mountain where I work, chains are a necessity now and then up there.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:51 pm

Mescalero wrote:I have a Dodge Power Wagon, 1976, it also has 16.5 wheels on it.
The first year I retired, and went back home; we had 86 inches of snow that year.
I spent the whole winter pulling people out of their stupidity.
One old boy ( and only one ) offered to buy me breakfast.
It is no wonder my faith in species homo sapien is greatly diminished.

318 or 360?

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:32 pm

m.wun wrote:I would think putting good chains on every tire and having fwd would make things a whole lot easier.Or at least studded tires.

That's why this winter stuff can be so scary over in jdad's country -- it happens so seldom that only some small percentage of the folks are prepared for it, and many have never driven on slick roads. So much of the bad that can happen to you is not under your control!

It's much better here on the east side of the Cascades where we have to face nasty roads at least occasionally every winter, so most of us are at least somewhat prepared (save for our brethren who just moved up from sunny Southern Cal

-- of which we always have a modest number). And of course the immortal teenager, of which there are always some about (of all ages as I should know as I occasionally go there myself).

williamranks · Post by **williamranks** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:38 pm

Even the brand of tires makes a difference.
Years ago, in Lowell Mass, I had a full size cherokee using Armstrong Norsemans and my wife at the time had a small cherokee with Wranglers.
When she would pull into the driveway her tires would be so packed with snow you couldn't see the tread and mine would be clean and leaving full tread tracks.
It pays to see who's leaving a full tread trail in the snow and write down the brand and type for the next set you buy.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:52 pm