Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

OK, sorry for the dusty rifle, but here are the photos:

I put a copper mark from a bullet tip on the side of the receiver at 1/4" lower than the hole should be drilled. The hole you see in my receiver was where a Williams sight was correctly mounted. On my rifle the front edge of the front hole is 1 1/8" from the edge of the rear bevel on the receiver.
Image
With the sight in the low position, any hole would be covered as long as it was 1 1/8" or less from the edge of the rear bevel of the receiver. This sight could be mounted slightly lower, as well. A lower front sight could be used to keep the rear sight lower, if necessary.

Image
Here you can see the correctly located hole, the copper mark 1/4" low, and 1/2" low puts it right at the edge of the scalloped part of the receiver.

Image
Here you can see that if the sight is raised three notches, a hole 1/4" low would just start to become visible, but likely unnoticeable. A hole 1/2" too low would be slightly more noticeable. This is because the bottom part of the Pattern 21 sight swings back a little as the sight is raised.

If you were lucky (a relative term, in this situation) and he drilled the holes just a little further back, then the sight would cover them at any reasonable elevation.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

They are 1/2" to low and 1/8" to 1/4" too far back. It would be marginal as to whether the Providence sight would cover it.
Do you have problems with your sight climbing like people claim the Lyman used to do?

Would you be so kind as to show me a picture of the sight from a different angle, i.e, showing the eyepiece and crossbar? I've seen the original Lyman 21s in person but not one of these. Thanks.

All I have ever seen are left side shots similar to the ones you have here.

That sight would be about $150 shipped and then I would have to D&T myself to hide his mistakes.
I'm waiting to get a quote from Turnbull on fixing the hack's mistakes. Of course I will have to add shipping costs to that. Yeah, he should pay to fix it but if I upgrade to case color hardening I can pay some of it myself. And I already made him refund my money for the D&T he was supposed to have done. I just need him to pay to bring the rifle back to pre massacre condition
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

vancelw wrote: Unfortunately it can be installed....but if it's too low it's obviously not correct. There is ZERO elevation left.
I think that was his problem. I showed him exactly where it needed to be mounted and assumed he would also research to verify the location. Instead, I think he tried to make the base fit over the relief that is on the side of the Browning 1895s. He got it almost 1/2" too low.
Oh, so he was mounting the base upside down? On the sight I have, there dis a slight angle on the top of the backside of the base to fit over the top bevel on the receiver. He must have flipped the base to mount this lip over the edge of the scalloped part of the receiver?
vancelw wrote:After looking it over, a Providence sight might cover the erroneous holes, but I'd rather have the Williams FP installed correctly.
I'm leaning more towards having Turnbull weld them up, refinish the receiver, and D&T the proper holes.
I prefer the Pattern 21 sight because it is the nostalgically correct sight for this rifle. On the other hand, there is a reason that Lyman makes receiver sights for these rifles today, but has not made Model 21s or 38s for many decades.

I would lean toward a lyman receiver sight over the Williams, and would especially lean toward a vintage receiver sight from one of several manufacturers. They made them better years ago. Of course, that means mucking about on ebay or gunbroker looking for them.

There are a couple guys who are going to help me out with some projects that do really nice-looking work and are a bit less expensive than Turnbull, with quicker turn-around times. They do really beautiful bluing and case hardening. I can pull up some contact info if you like. Otherwise, you can't go wrong with Turnbull.
vancelw wrote:This so-called "gunsmith" can't understand why I don't want some kind of "southern engineering" to make the sight work. If the holes are in the correct place, a Williams or Lyman receiver sight will work properly, as well as a Burris Fastfire mount. (heaven forbid :D )

I think the only reason my head hasn't exploded is that I am still in shock. This should have been Gunsmithing 101. It's like having an RN or paramedic that not only doesn't know how to take a a blood pressure, but doesn't really know why a BP is important :roll:
You would not believe the horrible work we see from gunsmiths. Continually people talk to me about finish jobs and ask if I can repair the work that their gunsmith just did, while I am refinishing.

I do some gunsmithing, other jobs I don't do. If I don't have the knowledge or skill, I am not going to learn it on your firearm. If I don't have the right equipment, I'm not going to come at your firearm with vice grips, sledgehammer, and hand grinder.

I often have to pay out of pocket for repairs to customer's firearms though I try to avoid it. In most cases, it is only a few dollars, and because I pull out a spring or a pin or something and it is all rusty and ugly, or a screw head was all buggered in the past, and I can't bear to put it back in that way, so I order a replacement. I don't like to charge customers for that kind of thing because too many people quote a job and then find ways to add cost to it. I don't want customers to think that is what I do. If I do find something bigger and more expensive to repair, I will have to go back to the customer and discuss the issue and costs.

Occasionally, I lose a small spring or pin or screw, and of course replace it. Once a customer sent an M1A to us and ordered a Smith Enterprises gas plug from a Smith dealer and had it shipped to us for installation. The dealer shipped a beat-up surplus gas plug and would not make it right, so we ordered one directly from Smith and ate the cost. I have not had any really big mistakes except one - we had a new dog that e were still training. The dog ended up being in a place she shouldn't with a customer's rifle within reach. She chewed the rifle. We bought our customer a new rifle and re-did the work that we had done on the new rifle.

Here are some solutions that seem reasonable to me:
The gunsmith could pay a competent smith to fill the holes professionally and reblue the receiver. I don't mean cold blue in one spot - the receiver should get a full reblue to be right.

The gunsmith could pay for the receiver to be professionally filled, and a non-factory finish done, like case hardening, for example. If case hardening costs more than a good, professional blueing job, then it would not be unreasonable for you to pay the difference, nor would it be unreasonable for the gunsmith to choose to pay the difference as a, "Sorry, I messed up your rifle and caused you aggravation and lost time.

The gunsmith could pay your costs for the project so far. In other words, if you purchase another rifle, have it rebored, and have the holes drilled, he can pay those costs and keep the rifle he messed up, or you can sell it yourself and he can pay the difference between what you recover and the replacement costs.
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

vancelw wrote:They are 1/2" to low and 1/8" to 1/4" too far back. It would be marginal as to whether the Providence sight would cover it.
Do you have problems with your sight climbing like people claim the Lyman used to do?

Would you be so kind as to show me a picture of the sight from a different angle, i.e, showing the eyepiece and crossbar? I've seen the original Lyman 21s in person but not one of these. Thanks.
Sure, as soon as I have a chance I will take some more photos for you.

From what I understood, people called it the climbin' Lyman because it could be raised so high. It was meant to replace tang sights on the Winchester '95 since tang sights got knocked down by the long bolt. I have not heard of the sight moving on its own, was that something people say happened?

These Providence Pattern 21 sights clamp down really securely - it would take quite a blow to get one to move. The lever gives you a lot of leverage on the screw, so it is really secure. I have one on my 1886 Wincheser.
firefuzz
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1351
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:17 am
Location: Central Oklahoma

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by firefuzz »

Decent pics here of the pattern 21, about half way down the page.

http://www.providencetoolcompanyllc.com/products.html

Rob
Proud to be Christian American and not ashamed of being white.

May your rifle always shoot straight, your mag never run dry, you always have one more round than you have adversaries, and your good mate always be there to watch your back.

Because I can!

Never grow a wishbone where a backbone ought to be.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Now that I go back and look at those photos, I do remember seeing them and not being crazy about the sight. I either need to splurge for an original or repair the rifle and put a Williams FP on it. I like the looksnof the Lyman better, but the prefer the way the Williams functions. I have examples of each on other rifles.

I try to post a picture of the boogered sight placement. It will be hard with my camera.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

My initial estimate to get the rifle repaired and the reciever sight holes D&T'd in the correct location is $775 to $925 plus shipping both ways :shock: I may need some suggestions of quality gunsmiths who could do the work a little more reasonably priced.

I'm not going to get that kind of recompense from this "gunsmith". Even though he's been in business for 40 years, he says (and appears) broke. It would be cheaper for me to sell the rifle (with full disclosure) and start over. That puts a lot of work on me and delays the project considerably.

The holes are probably not 1/2" low...I can't tell without a correctly D&T'd 1895 on hand to measure and compare.

But, after looking at 7.62 Precision's photos more closely, looking at the photos in Providence Tools installation instructions, and looking at my rifle....the Pattern 21 sight by Providence may cover the holes/plug screws.
I prefer the look of the original sights much more, but I would hate to put a (n expensive) original Lyman on a Browning reproduction rifle.

These rifles already have a reputation for being the most unwieldy (carrying position). How about you fellers who have an Lyman, Ideal, or new Providence sight installed? Much worse to carry or about the same.

Not too awful photos for an instamatic.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
User avatar
Blaine
Posting leader...
Posts: 30495
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Still Deciding

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Blaine »

If you're going to keep it, the new sight looks real good (unless this modern approach is not to your liking...)
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First

Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

That is awful. Was the guy blind drunk? I can't understand how any sane person could do that.

The sight is not even straight.

As far as the '95 Winchester being unwieldy to carry, I can only assume that that reputation comes mostly from people looking at it and not carrying it. I have carried them over miles of rough terrain and in bad weather and always found them to be easy to carry, balanced nicely, and easy to shoot. The Pattern 21 sight does not interfere with that.

No one I have ever spoken to personally who really used the '95 Winchesters said they found them ungainly.

Most people who say they don't like the look of the Pattern 21 sight say they don't like the brass pointer, but that can be remedied easily as brass is easy to blacken with products specifically designed for brass, or even cold blue.

Differences between the Providence sight and the original Lyman sights do not make it really less period-correct for these rifles, as I have seen several examples of period gunsmith-built copies of the Lyman sights that differed a little or greatly from the Lyman sights.

I was trying to remember if I have seen any vintage receiver sights that would extend low enough to cover those holes, but I can't think of any that do.

One way to go would be to make it an ongoing project. There is a way to fill holes with filler screws and make them almost if not totally invisible. You fill the hole with a screw that is too long, then cut it down close, heat the screw and tap it to spread it in the threads. Then you would usually draw file, sand, polish, and re-blue. Usually this would be done on a barrel, not a receiver. In this case, if you were VERY careful, you MIGHT be able to take the screws down with a Dremel and finish with sanding and polishing only a very small spot and finishing them with cold blue. In the interest of full disclosure, this is not how I would do it, personally. This would not probably be perfect in the end, but at least not very noticeable, and then as time goes on, you could have them welded and the receiver case hardened, or welded and blued if that is less expensive.

Alternately, just put filler screws in the holes, and leave it like that until you are ready to do the next step, or cover the screws with the Pattern 21 sight. It looks to me that he drilled the holes further back than they are on mine, which will allow the Pattern 21 sight to cover them even better. Maybe I will make a template from my sight that I can send to you so you can check it on your rifle.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

7.62 Precision wrote:That is awful. Was the guy blind drunk? I can't understand how any sane person could do that.

The sight is not even straight.

Most people who say they don't like the look of the Pattern 21 sight say they don't like the brass pointer, but that can be remedied easily as brass is easy to blacken with products specifically designed for brass, or even cold blue.

Maybe I will make a template from my sight that I can send to you so you can check it on your rifle.
I hope he wasn't drunk. Claims to be a God-fearing Bible thumper. Might have been on VA meds though. He almost has me feeling sorry for HIM event though he botched the job. I guess that's why I'm trying to find other "fixes".... People who don't shoot with peep sights don't understand how much light you lose if it's not perpendicular.

Yeah, I might like the Providence better with the pointer darkened. I just tend to like the smaller receiver sights...more compact. A Providence would make the rifle stand out though.

Can you just measure the actual length of your sight and tell me? I might be able to use Publisher or something similar to print out a scale photo, trim it, and test it for coverage. I know where the pivot point will be so it should work.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

The risks are part of bing in the business. I hate it when people won't take responsibility for their errors. I have to consider some of this as part of the costs of doing business. I have only once replaced a rifle, but I commonly replace screws and springs and small parts. Yesterday, I placed a .460 Rowland 1911 upside down on one of my pistol mats, which is thick rubber and has ridges, in order to hold everything to assemble. (The .460 Rowlands have a permanently attached brake, which makes assembly trickier.) I cracked the fiber optic front sight against the mat. It happens. I will replace the fiber optic tube - it will cost me a few dollars. Had i done something worse, it would cost me even more, but I would have to find a way to pay it.

I made a mistake in approving a proof on a big printing job recently. The mistake was the printer's, but it was clear in the proof, and I missed it. I went to the client and told them there was a mistake and we would be reprinting the job. They said, "Will the printer cover the cost?" I said, "No, I approved a proof that was incorrect." They said, "Do we need to pay for it?" I said, "No, I approved the proof." The client was actually willing to pay for it (the mistake was due to the job backing up and folding in a very confusing way, at their specification). I could have bullied the printer into reprinting for no cost. In the end it cost me a lot of money, but we did the right thing, and that is worth more than money.

I will make an image that you can download and print. I have some stuff to do this morning, but will try to get to it this evening.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

I got it. I spent quite a while on the phone with Frank at Providence Tools and he gave me several measurements.
I printed out a scale model of the sight. Now I'm trying to cut it out without bleeding all over it.
Frank also gave me some measurements for sight intended for other models, in case the buggered screw hole just happen to be in the wrong place when I go to D&T for the Pattern 21 sight. I will install it myself. It will give me a good excuse to buy a drill press :D
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
BenT
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2717
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: Northern Wisconsin

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

WOW! :shock: I can't believe he screwed it up that bad. I had mine tapped about ten years ago. I dropped it off at the gunsmiths and came back about a month later and it wasn't done. Because..... he couldn't remember where I wanted the holes and he wouldn't do it until I stopped back and verified.

Another option is to call Williams and have them make a custom base that will be long enough to cover those holes. Because I think the base would cover a third of the bad holes if it was retapped in the correct position. Plus go shoot the gun so you have an idea of what kind of elevation range you will be needing. That will help with deciding on a solution.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

BenT wrote:WOW! :shock: I can't believe he screwed it up that bad. I had mine tapped about ten years ago. I dropped it off at the gunsmiths and came back about a month later and it wasn't done. Because..... he couldn't remember where I wanted the holes and he wouldn't do it until I stopped back and verified.

Another option is to call Williams and have them make a custom base that will be long enough to cover those holes. Because I think the base would cover a third of the bad holes if it was retapped in the correct position. Plus go shoot the gun so you have an idea of what kind of elevation range you will be needing. That will help with deciding on a solution.
That was Mr. Butcher's first reaction. He couldn't understand that I want my gun fixed. I'm still getting prices on having the holes welded and the receiver re-blued. So far the prices to repair are 60-70% of the whole project. Cheapest solution to make it RIGHT is for me to sell the rifle with full disclosure, then start the project from scratch and make him pay the difference. That makes me do all the grunt work (buying, selling, sending off for modification...) to fix HIS mistake. But I'm leery that he will pony up.

So, I am considering the Providence tool sight to cover his mistake. The solution you mention would allow an awful lot of leverage on those two small holes....my second complaint about that "fix". And I'd have to look at the hodgepodge and be constantly reminded.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
BenT
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2717
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: Northern Wisconsin

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

I stopped by my buddies shop yesterday and he had a mint Browning 1895 in 30-06 that he just sold. But if it is always going to bother you then I would pick up another 1895 and do a barrel swap. Then sell the one you don't want. That would be the cheapest option. But you still need to shoot it ! That's the fun part :D

By the way I shot my 1895 in 35 Winchester using 30-40 brass blown out. A 200 gr at 2000 fps. was totally pleasant to shoot. Once I get the correct length brass I will load up some 220 grainers for hunting. So shoot and enjoy! Good Luck!
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

My second reaction was to buy an other Browning 1895 and swap the barrel. Except I'm back to not having a gunsmith I trust locally. If it was a simple screw on/screw off it would be great. But if the extractor doesn't line up then threads have to be removed to let the barrel screw in farther. Then the headspace issues....rechambering....ugh. Better to sell and start over. Ugh.
I'm still getting repair bids before I decide for sure. Then next week me and Mr. Gun Butcher are having a nice chat.

I'm dying to shoot this thing. I guess while it's in limbo I can shoot the 1895 Browning in .30-40 Krag I bought at Tulsa, intending to use it as a donor. Got the rifle for a sweet price....then I bought dies, brass, bullets..... :oops: Good thing I already had moulds or I'd be broke :D
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

vancelw wrote: I'm dying to shoot this thing. I guess while it's in limbo I can shoot the 1895 Browning in .30-40 Krag I bought at Tulsa, intending to use it as a donor. Got the rifle for a sweet price....then I bought dies, brass, bullets..... :oops: Good thing I already had moulds or I'd be broke :D
I really like the .30-40 Krag. I would like to try 220 gr bullets in my 1895 Japanchester and see how they shoot when I get around to it. In the old days it was known as a bear gun and had a reputation for really good penetration. The old-timers, when .30-06 ammo was mostly lighter bullets, put the '06 away and grabbed the Krag for bear hunting.
buckeyeshooter
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by buckeyeshooter »

:shock: :o He REALLY SCREWED UP on that tap job. A blind man can see its way out of place. I have always like the Williams foolproof on my 95'sand 86's. The climbin Lyman just looks too big and bulky. But to be honest, I've never shot with one on a gun.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

My biggest problem with adding a Pattern 21 is it will make me have to add a taller front sight. I've heard of people using dimes to fabricate one. I"ll wait and see. For a hunting gun, I'd be happy if it would zero at 175. But if I want to switch between hunting loads and plinking loads I'll need the adjustment a Lyman or Williams offers
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
BenT
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2717
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: Northern Wisconsin

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

Go to a good hardware store and get brass flat stock in the correct thickness to make a front site. I made a partridge style front site by angling the corner and then using a black marker on the rest of the brass.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

BenT wrote:Go to a good hardware store and get brass flat stock in the correct thickness to make a front site. I made a partridge style front site by angling the corner and then using a black marker on the rest of the brass.
Good idea. I'll have to experiment with brass and aluminum....see what's best for my eyes at dusk.
Is that front sight blade pin a simple drift pin?

I'm going to visit with the gun hack this week and see how manly he is going to be about his mistake. Then I will decide what I am going to do to fix or salvage my pet project and get moving with it.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
BenT
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2717
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: Northern Wisconsin

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by BenT »

vancelw wrote:
BenT wrote:Go to a good hardware store and get brass flat stock in the correct thickness to make a front site. I made a partridge style front site by angling the corner and then using a black marker on the rest of the brass.
Good idea. I'll have to experiment with brass and aluminum....see what's best for my eyes at dusk.
Is that front sight blade pin a simple drift pin?

Yes it is . A good hardware store will have number(28,29,30,etc) drill bits. Take the front site with you and find the exact drill bit size for drilling a hole in the new site blade. It is a small pin and think I had to file a punch down to get the correct size to tap the pin out.
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

http://www.mikehunterrestorations.com/test.html

http://danthegunman.com/index.php?optio ... e&Itemid=1
The pricing he gave me was dealer pricing, but it looks like his normal pricing is quite reasonable. He welds screw holes.

I have some info on a couple others, but I am having a really hard time finding it. I have contact info for a couple guys that I won't post as it is too cheap. It takes a certain amount of work to do this stuff - I don't trust anyone who charges so little that it is not worth the time - it tells me corners are being cut or the guy is too stupid to make money, and I don't want a stupid guy working on my stuff.
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

BenT wrote:Go to a good hardware store and get brass flat stock in the correct thickness to make a front site. I made a partridge style front site by angling the corner and then using a black marker on the rest of the brass.
This will work well. You can also do it with steel if you prefer it to bras, though brass looks good.

Alternately, just cut a dovetail. It is not too expensive to have someone cut it. (Preferably NOT the guy who drilled your receiver; a dovetail cut in your buttplate or the bottom of your receiver won't do you any good.)

Or you can cut it yourself with a jig from Dixie Gunworks and a couple files.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_in ... s_id=13083
tman
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3243
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:43 pm

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by tman »

Food for thought. a 30-06 220 at 2400 FPS. will kill anything on the planet. 06 ammo is cheaper and easier to find. I have a 1895 SCR in 30-06. i can go to Boxmart and get ammo anytime i want. :wink:
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

tman wrote:Food for thought. a 30-06 220 at 2400 FPS. will kill anything on the planet. 06 ammo is cheaper and easier to find. I have a 1895 SCR in 30-06. i can go to Boxmart and get ammo anytime i want. :wink:
????

I can buy .30-'06 ammo any time I want too (even during last year's panic) Along with .280 Remington.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
Mdl53
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:36 pm
Location: Central Tx

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by Mdl53 »

Just a thought, can't you cut out a small square of say 1/8 in. steel to match the size of the Williams, blue it and D&T two holes to match the messed up ones and then D&T an additional two in the correct place and mount it that way? Adjust your windage to compensate for the additional 1/8 in. and go shooting.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

Mdl53 wrote:Just a thought, can't you cut out a small square of say 1/8 in. steel to match the size of the Williams, blue it and D&T two holes to match the messed up ones and then D&T an additional two in the correct place and mount it that way? Adjust your windage to compensate for the additional 1/8 in. and go shooting.
Yes I could, but it doesn't fix the gun back to pre-massacre condition. That was the "gunsmiths" first plan of action. He needs to correct his mistake. Only reason I'm considering "patches" is if he refuses to do the right thing and I lose in Small Claims Court. Or if I just decide not to spend 60% of the entire project just to repair it. It would be more sensible to start over with a "new" rifle.

The method you describe would also make me have to buy a FP-71 sight to allow for the left offset. I was using a FP-9436 since I had it on hand and wouldn't normally need that extra windage. The blued block would also allow more leverage if the sight had pressure applied to it in some manner, making it easier to bend, break, or simply knock off of zero.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
madman4570
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6747
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:30 am
Location: Lower Central NYS

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by madman4570 »

vancelw wrote:My initial estimate to get the rifle repaired and the reciever sight holes D&T'd in the correct location is $775 to $925 plus shipping both ways :shock: I may need some suggestions of quality gunsmiths who could do the work a little more reasonably priced.

I'm not going to get that kind of recompense from this "gunsmith". Even though he's been in business for 40 years, he says (and appears) broke. It would be cheaper for me to sell the rifle (with full disclosure) and start over. That puts a lot of work on me and delays the project considerably.

The holes are probably not 1/2" low...I can't tell without a correctly D&T'd 1895 on hand to measure and compare.

But, after looking at 7.62 Precision's photos more closely, looking at the photos in Providence Tools installation instructions, and looking at my rifle....the Pattern 21 sight by Providence may cover the holes/plug screws.
I prefer the look of the original sights much more, but I would hate to put a (n expensive) original Lyman on a Browning reproduction rifle.

These rifles already have a reputation for being the most unwieldy (carrying position). How about you fellers who have an Lyman, Ideal, or new Providence sight installed? Much worse to carry or about the same.

Not too awful photos for an instamatic.
OMG, how ??? What was he thinking?
I am sorry, he must ante up $$$ and fix his screw up.
Do not accept the broke $ stuff.
At the minimum he needs to split cost of Turnbull plugging his massacre,redrill,refinish.
It's the principle not wanting to correct it that would make me insist he does.
Put a legal scare in the dude.
User avatar
7.62 Precision
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1836
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 am
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by 7.62 Precision »

tman wrote:Food for thought. a 30-06 220 at 2400 FPS. will kill anything on the planet. 06 ammo is cheaper and easier to find. I have a 1895 SCR in 30-06. i can go to Boxmart and get ammo anytime i want. :wink:
Yeah, I like a .30-06.

I also like a .35 Whelen. It has a longer point-blank range than a heavy .30-06, and can move the same weight bullet at the same speed with less pressure. The Hornady Superformance .35 Whelen load that is in stock at my local Three Bears grocery store moves a 200 grain bullet at 2910 fps. and Buffalo Bore does a 225 gr. TSX at 2800 fps. This is off-the-shelf ammo, and I don't think I have seen any off-the-shelf-ammo for .30-06 over 180 gr.

I have never been unable to purchase .35 Whelen off-the-shelf, and while I have no problem with shooting a brown bear with a .30-06, the Whelen gives that extra margin of comfort, and I like the .35 calibers, besides. It may be harder to find ammo in other locations - I'm unlikely to see it on the shelf in the native store in one of the smaller villages.

I have an SRC in .30-40 Krag. I was torn between the Krag and the '06, and I am glad I went with the Krag, but I sure wouldn't be complaining if I bought the '06 either. They are great shooting rifles.
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

That's what made this project so appealing...there are 6000 Browning 1895s in .30-'06 out there. It makes it a reasonably priced platform for a levergun in a not-so-common. caliber.

.35 Whelen is virtually unheard of around here, so not much on the shelf. I can pick it up reasonably at guns shows from non-ammo dealers, but I have about all the brass I need so I don't. Reloading is 55% of the fun :D

Now I have leverguns in .30-'06, .35 Whelen, .30-40 Krag, .32-20, .348, .45-70, .45 Colt, .44 Magnum, .38-55, and last but not least...30-30.
I almost picked up a .375 and a .307 the other day, but a rare wave of rationale hit me. Something in the back of my mind about eating that week...
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3928
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: Convert 1895 in .30-'06 to .35 Whelen

Post by vancelw »

The saga continues.... with a happier chapter :D

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=59990
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
Post Reply